I think where the ambiguity arises @bobmunro is that rarely those things can achieved without a 'competitive' football team, and that involves putting the right resources or player development transition in place to achieve that.
No one enjoys their beer, friends, or jokes when the game and the team is failing (apart from my crew who get the benefits of my Champions League standard ban tor)
very true which I why I support dialogue and communication
Don't know @rikofold, but i'll be honest with you, that's pretty much all i personally ever want from it all.
Whether that is offered a wordy cop-out argument to disguise an ultimate lack of ambition, well that's open for interpretation.
Yes, that is part of what I want.
But that vision is very passive on the fans part. Turn up, enjoy, go home. Don't ask questions, "accept" what you are given, be happy.
Only this isn't Arsenal or even Fulham where there is going to be a large tourist element of the support.
Rightly or wrongly people invest emotionally in their football clubs and so want a more emotional event than provided by going to see a film or watching a game on TV in the pub.
Thanks Henry, you've eloquently hit the nail on the head. By all means improve the social aspect, but that's not all it's about - and it's certainly not a vision I'l be signing up to.
The social aspect does indeed vary according to how the team performs.
When we were in The Prem. I remember, on a number of occasions, we had about 20 of "our extended group" meeting in the pub pre match.
Contrast that, with pre the Brentford game, having not won for 3 months, playing abysmally with one forward all season, no decent back up goalie for months and an inadequate midfield all season and we were down to me plus 2.
Even 4 S/T holders, out of 7, preferred to be elsewhere and we're talking about committed fans that go to many aways as well.
If RD & KM want us to have a great time & make the day a social event, I'm 100% behind that.
But it won't happen without a decent team to watch.
The question is, will we have a decent team ?
Let's just say the committment to that continues to be very vague.
A few weeks ago it was desperate.
Now it's looking good.
But on RD's track record he is more likely to sell the best players than add to them.
If he's going to add to them and attempt to make us stronger, then why won't he tell us that is his aim ?
The fact that he doesn't, makes many fans, think that he won't & he will sell the best players like he has with Liege.
He could very easily close all this speculation down, but he chooses not to.
One that doesn't demand instant responses to sensitive business issues. One that doesn't make perceived threads to orchestrate a ST boycott. One that is conciliatory and supportive. One that doesn't constantly go on about how it was better under a previous regime. One that acknowledges mistakes and learns from them rather than throw them back in your face and bring them up every time something doesn't go the way you hope it will.
That will do for starters.
Don't you think there's something of a contradiction in your own behaviour. You keep going on about something that never happened in the way you are desperate to pretend it did and about the G21, which you can't find any evidence to link it with, because there isn't any. Isn't it time you moved on yourself?
But do you think the owner thought that thread was constructive or reason to commence a dialogue with high profile fans?
I certainly don't.
That's not what I asked though, is it? You are accusing people of not letting go of past mistakes on the part of the club but trying to place enormous weight on something you regard as a mistake, although in fact it was just another speculative thread on a message board. You are banging on about the G21, which met once in a pub a year ago and has not met since. The reason you are doing it is that you think it can be used to undermine arguments being put forward now, but that's exactly what you are accusing Prague of doing - dragging up events of a year ago to undermine the club's actions now.
But do you think the owner thought that thread was constructive or reason to commence a dialogue with high profile fans?
I certainly don't.
Addickted I agree with this as well. But can you attempt to answer my point please ?
Only the owner can answer your point CE.
I just don't think we've asked the question in the right way and now we will just have to wait and see.
This is it. We'll all have to wait and see. We just don't know if there is any football ambition or not ?
How very very weird, to have an owner, that won't state, whether he has any football ambition for his clubs.
There doesn't appear to be any at Liege.
If you win the league (although not the title, due to a play off system) and then sell the best half of that team in the summer, it very much looks like that you don't want to win that league in the new season.
It certainly wasn't because he had to, being what is it, the 11th richest man in Belgium.
For the record, I liked and agree, with your original post and apologise for hijacking it, but didn't realise what the thread was, when giving an honest reply to A-R-T-H-U-R.
But do you think the owner thought that thread was constructive or reason to commence a dialogue with high profile fans?
I certainly don't.
That's not what I asked though, is it? You are accusing people of not letting go of past mistakes on the part of the club but trying to place enormous weight on something you regard as a mistake, although in fact it was just another speculative thread on a message board. You are banging on about the G21, which met once in a pub a year ago and has not met since. The reason you are doing it is that you think it can be used to undermine arguments being put forward now, but that's exactly what you are accusing Prague of doing - dragging up events of a year ago to undermine the club's actions now.
The contradiction is deliberate.
Because all I can see is constant sniping at the owner, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the positives that have been delivered. Post after post on Kermorgant, Thuram, Nego and 'no communication' from the demands of the '5,000'.
And any thread that even attempts to show some kind of positivity is 'attacked' by the same posters.
But do you think the owner thought that thread was constructive or reason to commence a dialogue with high profile fans?
I certainly don't.
That's not what I asked though, is it? You are accusing people of not letting go of past mistakes on the part of the club but trying to place enormous weight on something you regard as a mistake, although in fact it was just another speculative thread on a message board. You are banging on about the G21, which met once in a pub a year ago and has not met since. The reason you are doing it is that you think it can be used to undermine arguments being put forward now, but that's exactly what you are accusing Prague of doing - dragging up events of a year ago to undermine the club's actions now.
The contradiction is deliberate.
Because all I can see is constant sniping at the owner, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the positives that have been delivered. Post after post on Kermorgant, Thuram, Nego and 'no communication' from the demands of the '5,000'.
And any thread that even attempts to show some kind of positivity is 'attacked' by the same posters.
I listen to those Arsenal knobs on Talksport demanding Wenger's head on a platter because they're 'only' 4th in the premiership and laugh.
That said, even though I've supported Charlton for 52 years and counting mainly through second tier mediocrity, I would like at least the illusion of aspiration and ambition to get back to the top tier.
When we were there I never wanted the manager out for 'boring midtable football' unlike a noisy minority and wouldn't again.
Does our Roland even aspire to that though? We simply do not know and therein lies much of the discontent.
I listen to those Arsenal knobs on Talksport demanding Wenger's head on a platter because they're 'only' 4th in the premiership and laugh.
That said, even though I've supported Charlton for 52 years and counting mainly through second tier mediocrity, I would like at least the illusion of aspiration and ambition to get back to the top tier.
When we were there I never wanted the manager out for 'boring midtable football' unlike a noisy minority and wouldn't again.
Does our Roland even aspire to that though? We simply do not know and therein lies much of the discontent.
Interesting to hear a Hull fan on Talksport yesterday, saying he didn't care about whether his team got relegated, he just wanted to have a day out at Wembley and win the fa cup, he was 'fed up' of finishing 10th, I wonder if we' d be saying similar things if we became a stable Premiership club.
By the way I can see Hull doing a Wigan, or a Portsmouth given time.
I listen to those Arsenal knobs on Talksport demanding Wenger's head on a platter because they're 'only' 4th in the premiership and laugh.
That said, even though I've supported Charlton for 52 years and counting mainly through second tier mediocrity, I would like at least the illusion of aspiration and ambition to get back to the top tier.
When we were there I never wanted the manager out for 'boring midtable football' unlike a noisy minority and wouldn't again.
Does our Roland even aspire to that though? We simply do not know and therein lies much of the discontent.
and around in circles we go…. KM according to @Covered End on the VIP meeting thread ' KM did say our ambition was to make The Prem, but it was unlikely in the next couple of seasons. But at least she said it.'
and this we before our decent run kicked into place. So from whats been spoken at meeting the answer seems to be , yes Roland does.
Comments
When we were in The Prem. I remember, on a number of occasions, we had about 20 of "our extended group" meeting in the pub pre match.
Contrast that, with pre the Brentford game, having not won for 3 months, playing abysmally with one forward all season, no decent back up goalie for months and an inadequate midfield all season and we were down to me plus 2.
Even 4 S/T holders, out of 7, preferred to be elsewhere and we're talking about committed fans that go to many aways as well.
If RD & KM want us to have a great time & make the day a social event, I'm 100% behind that.
But it won't happen without a decent team to watch.
The question is, will we have a decent team ?
Let's just say the committment to that continues to be very vague.
A few weeks ago it was desperate.
Now it's looking good.
But on RD's track record he is more likely to sell the best players than add to them.
If he's going to add to them and attempt to make us stronger, then why won't he tell us that is his aim ?
The fact that he doesn't, makes many fans, think that he won't & he will sell the best players like he has with Liege.
He could very easily close all this speculation down, but he chooses not to.
Why does he choose not to ?
Who has he sold? Kermorgant? Stevens? Plus several players who have been 'released'. None of them to SL.
Compare that with the obvious investment he's made in the team - some rubbish, some average and some real class.
He's proved that he's prepared to invest in the team. To make the team and squad stronger and hopefully provide us with more positive results.
I'm really looking forward to a strong finish this season and further investment in the summer.
But do you think the owner thought that thread was constructive or reason to commence a dialogue with high profile fans?
I certainly don't.
I just don't think we've asked the question in the right way and now we will just have to wait and see.
How very very weird, to have an owner, that won't state, whether he has any football ambition for his clubs.
There doesn't appear to be any at Liege.
If you win the league (although not the title, due to a play off system) and then sell the best half of that team in the summer, it very much looks like that you don't want to win that league in the new season.
It certainly wasn't because he had to, being what is it, the 11th richest man in Belgium.
For the record, I liked and agree, with your original post and apologise for hijacking it, but didn't realise what the thread was, when giving an honest reply to A-R-T-H-U-R.
Because all I can see is constant sniping at the owner, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the positives that have been delivered. Post after post on Kermorgant, Thuram, Nego and 'no communication' from the demands of the '5,000'.
And any thread that even attempts to show some kind of positivity is 'attacked' by the same posters.
I wonder why that is?
That said, even though I've supported Charlton for 52 years and counting mainly through second tier mediocrity, I would like at least the illusion of aspiration and ambition to get back to the top tier.
When we were there I never wanted the manager out for 'boring midtable football' unlike a noisy minority and wouldn't again.
Does our Roland even aspire to that though? We simply do not know and therein lies much of the discontent.
By the way I can see Hull doing a Wigan, or a Portsmouth given time.
and this we before our decent run kicked into place. So from whats been spoken at meeting the answer seems to be , yes Roland does.