I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for him, but draw comfort from the fact that one day he'll be gone and then we'll never hear of him again.
I honestly dont get it.
Is it because he has a close relationship with RD? Will you not be happy with a manager until it's under a different owner???
I think you do get it. I didn't mind Riga and I didn't mind Peeters initially. I gave them both a chance. Luzon though - I just can't take him seriously. The nature of the appointment, the persona and the opinions of people who already know about him make it impossible for me.
I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for him, but draw comfort from the fact that one day he'll be gone and then we'll never hear of him again.
I honestly dont get it.
Is it because he has a close relationship with RD? Will you not be happy with a manager until it's under a different owner???
I think you do get it. I didn't mind Riga and I didn't mind Peeters initially. I gave them both a chance. Luzon though - I just can't take him seriously. The nature of the appointment, the persona and the opinions of people who already know about him make it impossible for me.
Jackson knows him and he seemed pretty complimentary. Or is he a liar??
I think it really boils down to results, Luzon gets it right and the anti-RD feelings will go off the boil - Luzon gets it wrong and the atmosphere will become much worse. Each result until the end of the season has the potential to fan these flames. Don't see anything wrong with the meeting tonight - pretty obvious that it's not going to change RD's modus operandi overnight, but also sends a signal that there is a decent amount of fans motivated enough to react if things go wrong.
I really don't see on what grounds Luzon was so convincingly selected as best for Charlton & the Championship - so-so results at Liege in let's face it a fairly uncompetitive league (not as bad as the old two horse race in Scotland I know) and Israeli obscurity coupled with allegations of nepotism before that. He obviously is well connected with RD's good mate Dudu - it's that kind of hangers-on network that concerns me more than specific players from within Roland's harem.
The kind of view that Uboat has - which I totally understand, but disagree with for what that's worth - is probably more damaging to Luzon than the 'sacked in the morning' chants. It doesn't matter if we stay up, or how comfortably, or what business is done over summer, Luzon will NEVER get the credit if it goes well, and will always get more personal criticism if things go wrong, because he's perceived as being part of Duchatalet's little posse instead of judged purely on his merits as a manager, however he came by the job.
Like I say, I can see where Uboat's coming from and it's not a nonsensical position to take, but it really won't help. Personally I don't much like Luzon on an emotional basis but if he's competent and does the job he's paid to do - which involves comfortable survival and a realistic look at the playoffs - then I will back him professionally.
Swallowing his pride by recognising and clapping the fans efforts would be a start.
4 days after being told he "doesn't know what he's doing" and was "getting sacked in the morning" ?
It's not his pride that needs swallowing.
That's part parcel of football
No it isn't. That's part and parcel of petulant, impatient, childish fans who wouldn't be seen at just about any other football club. Not in my name thanks.
Which is part parcel of football... If you think Charlton fans are the only to do this sort of thing then you are deluded, take that from someone who sees a lot lot worse at plenty of other football clubs. A few sing songs is nothing in reality.
Come on now. Name three clubs you have been to where "you don't know what you're doing" chants have rung out at their managers fist home game. Please don't call me deluded. Your agenda is clear without getting personal.
You've changed your point, I am not backing up these fans but I am saying these fans are at every club around the world give or take a few. You sticking an exact scenario as to an exact song at an exact first home game is irrelevant and of course I can't answer you there.
as Prague is implying, it's all about circumstances. Stick another club under this clubs circumstances there could be a lot worse than a few songs coming from the stands I'll tell you that much. I'm talking about around the world aswell as just England.
And me saying deluded wasn't an intention to get personal. I think someone is deluded if they believe Charlton are the only club's fans who react in the way they have to these sort of circumstances. Far from the truth, far from it.
'Liar' is a deliberately emotive term. Given the situation he might not have said what he thinks. He was at work and his boss was sitting next to him.
But Jackson is the one that gave credit. If he didn't mean it then why say it all??
For the reasons I just gave. I don't know what you do for a living, but if your boss asks you how it's going with the person they just employed, in front of an audience at a fairly tense time for the organisation, the sensible answer would be, 'Great!'
'Liar' is a deliberately emotive term. Given the situation he might not have said what he thinks. He was at work and his boss was sitting next to him.
But Jackson is the one that gave credit. If he didn't mean it then why say it all??
For the reasons I just gave. I don't know what you do for a living, but if your boss asks you how it's going with the person they just employed, in front of an audience at a fairly tense time for the organisation, the sensible answer would be, 'Great!'
"We'll try ! Credit must go to Guy Luzon. He has had us working tirelessly. And it is good because we required a lot of work. He is very structured and sure of what he wants from different players. Saturday was the first time we played how he wants us to play."
If he wasn't happy with Luzon then he should have stopped at "We'll try"
'Liar' is a deliberately emotive term. Given the situation he might not have said what he thinks. He was at work and his boss was sitting next to him.
But Jackson is the one that gave credit. If he didn't mean it then why say it all??
For the reasons I just gave. I don't know what you do for a living, but if your boss asks you how it's going with the person they just employed, in front of an audience at a fairly tense time for the organisation, the sensible answer would be, 'Great!'
"We'll try ! Credit must go to Guy Luzon. He has had us working tirelessly. And it is good because we required a lot of work. He is very structured and sure of what he wants from different players. Saturday was the first time we played how he wants us to play."
If he wasn't happy with Luzon then he should have stopped at "We'll try"
It seems to me that the club have well-and-truly caught on to the disquiet that exists with a sizeable section of our support, hence Katrien suddenly wanting to communicate with a teenage fan. It seems very likely that Jackson will have been briefed as to what the message was and as an employee will have been expected to play his role. I see this all the time and I work for a tiny, insignificant organisation compared to Charlton. I would be amazed if he was just told to turn up and say what he liked.
'Liar' is a deliberately emotive term. Given the situation he might not have said what he thinks. He was at work and his boss was sitting next to him.
But Jackson is the one that gave credit. If he didn't mean it then why say it all??
For the reasons I just gave. I don't know what you do for a living, but if your boss asks you how it's going with the person they just employed, in front of an audience at a fairly tense time for the organisation, the sensible answer would be, 'Great!'
"We'll try ! Credit must go to Guy Luzon. He has had us working tirelessly. And it is good because we required a lot of work. He is very structured and sure of what he wants from different players. Saturday was the first time we played how he wants us to play."
If he wasn't happy with Luzon then he should have stopped at "We'll try"
It seems to me that the club have well-and-truly caught on to the disquiet that exists with a sizeable section of our support, hence Katrien suddenly wanting to communicate with a teenage fan. It seems very likely that Jackson will have been briefed as to what the message was and as an employee will have been expected to play his role. I see this all the time and I work for a tiny, insignificant organisation compared to Charlton. I would be amazed if he was just told to turn up and say what he liked.
Well we will just have to disagree on this one. Jackson didn't have to give credit to Luzon. He answered the question and then added positive comments about the manager. I dont disagree that he was told to be sensible in his responses and the man has too much class to do otherwise, but I honestly think if he was unhappy he wouldn't go out of his way and talk through gritted teeth because he was forced too.
He's not that millwall twunt who everyone was jostling off after half a dozen games of undefeated boredom and he's proper punching with his mrs so there's an upside too him
Fact is, Luzon unfairly caught a lot of the anger that was generated by the way in which his appointment was handled and communicated. That wasn't his fault. Some people will be negative about him anyway, but it can't be an easy job and we must all, ultimately, want him to be successful.
I would rather hear Johnny Jackson's Red and White Army until we're sure Saturday great win was down to Luzon, The Cardiff 2nd half was down to the players ,so we were told afterwards. i tend to believe Jackson, if he says that Luzon have been getting his message across then i want to go with that.
I think the fans should have a truce with Guy but still play hard to get. Remember what you said Nicky Bailey could do to your wives ?
If you get a chant you should earn it, Luzon to outsiders it must seem crazy that he was getting stick after 1 or 2 games depending on his start game. But to me and others it was 3 years of passive football at home with 23 losses and bore draws galore.
we can't keep turning the clock back to zero each time a new coach turns up. he will at some time have to stand up to Katrien or Roland ?
At least he realized that just because Tony struggled in Belgium it was no reason he couldn't do well here, even if it was 4 matches after the fans worked it out.
I think Chris Powell is going to get alot of singing even throughout the game and it may create a divide amongst the home fans, as there is outside of Valley (on forums and so forth), I think it'll be brought into the Valley Saturday partly fuelled by £5 tickets, more beer money for people perhaps on the 'wrong' game
I think Chris Powell is going to get alot of singing even throughout the game and it may create a divide amongst the home fans, as there is outside of Valley (on forums and so forth), I think it'll be brought into the Valley Saturday partly fuelled by £5 tickets, more beer money for people perhaps on the 'wrong' game
If our fans sing the opposition managers name during the game then it's a lot worse than anything Luzon or RD has ever done!!!!
I think Chris Powell is going to get alot of singing even throughout the game and it may create a divide amongst the home fans, as there is outside of Valley (on forums and so forth), I think it'll be brought into the Valley Saturday partly fuelled by £5 tickets, more beer money for people perhaps on the 'wrong' game
If our fans sing the opposition managers name during the game then it's a lot worse than anything Luzon or RD has ever done!!!!
I will give CP a huge round of applause when he comes out of the dugout, and when he trails off with his team well beaten at the end. The rest of the game, he is the opposition - no way will I ever clap or cheer for any of the opposition during the game.
I don't understand why anyone would feel sorry for Luzon. He has chanced upon an opportunity to make a name for himself in English football. I think he has been very fortunate to find himself in a well paid job and I don't think he would want anyone's pity either.
It's a little early in the day to be saying that Guy Luzon is being hard done to.
Either he knew how high feelings were running at the club before he came, or he should have taken the trouble to find out. We don't know whether or not he is going to be able to turn the club's fortunes on the pitch around, but one of the first things he is going to have to achieve is to get the players on his side. There isn't much sign of that happening to date.
Another thing that goes against him is that he is being seen as yet another "Duchatelet Yes Man", and that will make him about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs contest. If the fans perceive that all he is doing is toeing the RD line, the situation will deteriorate further.
What can he do to improve the way the fans perceive him?
Start looking like he's genuinely here to improve the playing fortunes of Charlton Athletic and not just another Duchatelet Network journeyman on the way to becoming the next former manager of Charlton Athletic.
Convince us that he's truly.... really.... honestly.... busting a gut for the club, team and fans will go a long way and then nobody will have to feel sorry for him at all.
Luzon was offered a good football management job and took it as you would expect. The way that appointment was handled was not his fault but he became an easy target for other frustrations because of his perceived loyalty to Roland. I think that was unfair, but he wasn't helped by the pitiful showing vs Norwich, not that that was entirely his fault either.
He's had a few games in charge now; some with some good signs of improvement; some with some not so good signs, but if you are only as good as you last game, for another hour at least, Luzon is currently a good manager head coach.
I can't say I have warmed to him from afar yet. He's not naturally charismatic and I'm not sure all the prancing around on the touch line is strictly necessary but if he can get the players winning matches for him none of that will matter.
I do have some sympathy for him though, unlike Roland.
Comments
Let's leave it.
Luzon though - I just can't take him seriously. The nature of the appointment, the persona and the opinions of people who already know about him make it impossible for me.
I really don't see on what grounds Luzon was so convincingly selected as best for Charlton & the Championship - so-so results at Liege in let's face it a fairly uncompetitive league (not as bad as the old two horse race in Scotland I know) and Israeli obscurity coupled with allegations of nepotism before that. He obviously is well connected with RD's good mate Dudu - it's that kind of hangers-on network that concerns me more than specific players from within Roland's harem.
Like I say, I can see where Uboat's coming from and it's not a nonsensical position to take, but it really won't help. Personally I don't much like Luzon on an emotional basis but if he's competent and does the job he's paid to do - which involves comfortable survival and a realistic look at the playoffs - then I will back him professionally.
as Prague is implying, it's all about circumstances. Stick another club under this clubs circumstances there could be a lot worse than a few songs coming from the stands I'll tell you that much. I'm talking about around the world aswell as just England.
And me saying deluded wasn't an intention to get personal. I think someone is deluded if they believe Charlton are the only club's fans who react in the way they have to these sort of circumstances. Far from the truth, far from it.
If he wasn't happy with Luzon then he should have stopped at "We'll try"
and he's proper punching with his mrs
so there's an upside too him
But he needs to be given a chance.
I think the fans should have a truce with Guy but still play hard to get.
Remember what you said Nicky Bailey could do to your wives ?
If you get a chant you should earn it, Luzon to outsiders it must seem crazy that he was getting stick after 1 or 2 games depending on his start game.
But to me and others it was 3 years of passive football at home with 23 losses and bore draws galore.
we can't keep turning the clock back to zero each time a new coach turns up.
he will at some time have to stand up to Katrien or Roland ?
At least he realized that just because Tony struggled in Belgium it was no reason he couldn't do well here, even if it was 4 matches after the fans worked it out.
However, if you are willing to agree to be part of some bizarre merry go round, then you can't really expect a lot of sympathy.
If you make your bed, you've got to lie in it.
Either he knew how high feelings were running at the club before he came, or he should have taken the trouble to find out. We don't know whether or not he is going to be able to turn the club's fortunes on the pitch around, but one of the first things he is going to have to achieve is to get the players on his side. There isn't much sign of that happening to date.
Another thing that goes against him is that he is being seen as yet another "Duchatelet Yes Man", and that will make him about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs contest. If the fans perceive that all he is doing is toeing the RD line, the situation will deteriorate further.
What can he do to improve the way the fans perceive him?
Start looking like he's genuinely here to improve the playing fortunes of Charlton Athletic and not just another Duchatelet Network journeyman on the way to becoming the next former manager of Charlton Athletic.
Convince us that he's truly.... really.... honestly.... busting a gut for the club, team and fans will go a long way and then nobody will have to feel sorry for him at all.
He's had a few games in charge now; some with some good signs of improvement; some with some not so good signs, but if you are only as good as you last game, for another hour at least, Luzon is currently a good
managerhead coach.I can't say I have warmed to him from afar yet. He's not naturally charismatic and I'm not sure all the prancing around on the touch line is strictly necessary but if he can get the players winning matches for him none of that will matter.
I do have some sympathy for him though, unlike Roland.