Personally there is a lot to question as to.the way the vision is being put in to place, I refuse to believe that any of the shenanigans in the last 6 weeks were within his plan
However I do think he should be judged by this time next season not this as he should have two full transfer windows ( not Jan they are a load of over priced panicking shit)
There is time for reaction but I don't think now is that time
I know your not personally saying its the fans fault, however the players/managers owners etc have a part to play as well. if they cant give a 100% and fight for every 50-50 or tackle it rubs off straight away to the fans.
Cardiff last season. We were playing shit and losing 0-2 at home.
The fans upped their game massively and we thumped them. Some say that turned our season around - maybe, maybe not - but it was certainly an "I was there" moment and showed the power of the fans
Why do we always go back to the past to try and justify reasons for being crap. There has been many times home and away where the fans have been great but yet the result hasn't gone our way.
The fact is there are plenty of teams out there with far worse support then ours but still manage to get results, still manage to come from behind and win games.
I know your not personally saying its the fans fault, however the players/managers owners etc have a part to play as well. if they cant give a 100% and fight for every 50-50 or tackle it rubs off straight away to the fans.
Cardiff last season. We were playing shit and losing 0-2 at home.
The fans upped their game massively and we thumped them. Some say that turned our season around - maybe, maybe not - but it was certainly an "I was there" moment and showed the power of the fans
Why do we always go back to the past to try and justify reasons for being crap. There has been many times home and away where the fans have been great but yet the result hasn't gone our way.
The fact is there are plenty of teams out there with far worse support then ours but still manage to get results, still manage to come from behind and win games.
because if I refer back to a game that we lost in I'd be defeating my own point. we need something to galvanise us so why not a point in recent history where we were up shit street and turned it around
"It's the red and white kit and the badge that make this club what it is."
No, its not. You can't just stick a red and white shirt and a badge on any old player and say "thats Charlton, so support it".
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Thats why this club doesn't feel like Charlton.
I'll leave it to the wise words of a very, very wise man....
I know your not personally saying its the fans fault, however the players/managers owners etc have a part to play as well. if they cant give a 100% and fight for every 50-50 or tackle it rubs off straight away to the fans.
Cardiff last season. We were playing shit and losing 0-2 at home.
The fans upped their game massively and we thumped them. Some say that turned our season around - maybe, maybe not - but it was certainly an "I was there" moment and showed the power of the fans
Why do we always go back to the past to try and justify reasons for being crap. There has been many times home and away where the fans have been great but yet the result hasn't gone our way.
The fact is there are plenty of teams out there with far worse support then ours but still manage to get results, still manage to come from behind and win games.
Watford being a case in point. Fans sang their hearts out all day and got drubbed.
"It's the red and white kit and the badge that make this club what it is."
No, its not. You can't just stick a red and white shirt and a badge on any old player and say "thats Charlton, so support it".
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Thats why this club doesn't feel like Charlton.
I'll leave it to the wise words of a very, very wise man....
I must congratulate you on this post. Says all that needs to be said.
And that CAFCTOM is why I hate Roland and Cruella personally with everything I have, because that is what they are taking away from me for personal gain.
I think it was QPR at home last season when we were 0-0 and the game was drifting into the last 15 minutes. Something happened on the pitch - a few good touches, strong challenges etc and the crowd got back involved and the atmosphere grew. The players seemed to get encouraged by that and the whole thing turned into a virtuous circle culminating in an injury time winner from JJ. That's how it works - it takes them and us to make it happen, but to a large extent it has to start with the players. If they come out against Norwich and play like they care, get stuck in, look dangerous etc the crowd will respond and forget all about RD for the duration of the game. It's not realistic to demand that people create a cauldron of noise for a shit, lifeless performance.
Succession of retorts about impressive new catering, we were going down without him, we were going to admin without him, bla bla bla)
We were screwed, heading for administration. Not paying bills. Skint.
We are now solvent, cracking pitch (albeit players not taking advantage of it) and at least talking to prospective players (allegedly). We are about to embark on spending a shed load of cash on one of the best academies outside the premiership.
That side of the business is infinitely better than a year ago. Now it's the playing staff that need sorting. And for the fans to stop expecting the world
Struggle to express how infuriating I find the sentiment behind this statement.
Those disillusioned with the club aren't expecting anything more than a reason to feel a connection with Charlton. An assurance that those in charge are taking it in the right direction, care about the fans and make decisions in OUR best interests and no-one elses. Is that really expecting the world? I don't see anyone demanding big-name players or top 10 finishes. On the contrary, when we sold our two best players this time last year the vast majority were prepared to accept the decision and see how it played out.
This is not about expecting the world. I was more content as a Charlton fan when we were in League One. I was more content as a Charlton fan when we were struggling under Powell last season. But yeah, this is all about dummy fans being impatient and not appreciating the fact our owner spent some spare change on the pitch.
the players are shot to bits /shit because they have been brought in by the freak show or run down by it , the players are not performing to their maximum ability because the puppets have lost the spirit in the dressing room
Far be it for me to argue with that, morts but does anyone actually KNOW how the dressing room is since GL arrived ?
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Can the 'values' and 'principles' be defined?
Not sitting on either side of the fence but how are the 'values dear to our hearts' different than when Slater et al were in charge?
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Can the 'values' and 'principles' be defined?
Not sitting on either side of the fence but how are the 'values dear to our hearts' different than when Slater et al were in charge?
Or as we plummeted down League 1?
Because then it was a football club made up of the crucial trilogy of owners, team and fans, all aiming for success on the field to the best of their abilities.
Now it is a network and its team playing out some sort of fanatical business plan not for football success that the fans want but for cheap profit, leaving the fans out of the equation
100% agree with what swisdom has said - we have been shit for a number of years now and we may find the way he operates bit strange / new / different but he is putting money in and trying to make us a success. He clearly believes there is an edge to be had by not 'wasting' the money that normally goes down the pan when hiring / firing. He clearly also recognises that sometimes circumstances change and people need a change / move - again this normally comes at a cost / waste to the club but it may not be because you are a bad coach / player / manager. It may not be baring fruit at the moment (although i'd say the squad is better than it was when he arrived) but I for one am grateful he stepped in and saved us from admin and am prepared to give him a chance and show a bit of gratitude by, if nothing else, being patient. - I said it a few weeks back and i'll say it again - take your head out of your arses, stop feeding on the hysteria of everybody else and understand what is happening - just because we had a good start and expectations got raised lets not forget that it wasn't long ago that we were looking at the championship as though it was a cut above and now we are having tantrums because we can't beat Rotherham. I'm as tired as anybody at the performances but lets take the rose tinted glasses off and not forget how shit most of the performances were before (league 1 title aside and even that was like pulling teeth at times) - Bexley Dan
I don't mean the club - I mean us, the fans. The Supporters.
Surely the word "Supporters" implies we need to support the team. Regardless of who runs it, owns it and plays in it - it's the red and white kit and the badge that make this club what it is.
At the weekend I was cringing when some of our number started the "you don't know what you are doing" crap. We know nothing of what happens on the training ground. Igor looks like he wants to play all the time but, if he is ineffective and carrying a knock we should remove him from the game. He needs a couple of games out of the team to fully recover so I would like to see Watt get a start - he has done more in his cameos than Harriott has in several games so hopefully is now nearer to being match-fit. Just need to get a big lump to do the hold-up work first.
Earlier in the season we were going well - it's largely the same players now so we just need to get that feelgood factor going again - and one of the most important components missing is each and every one of us supporting the team - and losing the poisonous atmosphere currently surrounding everything we do.
Well yes, if the "supporters" had sat back clapping in 1985 and onwards rather than saying "you don't know what you're doing" and organising a response then things would have been a lot better wouldn't they.
I'm not saying don't support the team, but the 'you don't know what you're doing' "crap" was about a lot more than a substitution. It was an expression of the frustration of watching our club blow the momentum of a League One title and a 9th place finish almost overnight, exchanging decades of relative stability for a new manager every 3 months. EVERY 3 MONTHS!
The feelgood factor won't return until we have stability and the feeling we're heading in the right direction. It won't matter if it takes a few years provided we know things are getting better each one, that the owner, manager, CEO, players and fans all get the club and are behind where it's heading.
I don't mean the club - I mean us, the fans. The Supporters.
Surely the word "Supporters" implies we need to support the team. Regardless of who runs it, owns it and plays in it - it's the red and white kit and the badge that make this club what it is.
At the weekend I was cringing when some of our number started the "you don't know what you are doing" crap. We know nothing of what happens on the training ground. Igor looks like he wants to play all the time but, if he is ineffective and carrying a knock we should remove him from the game. He needs a couple of games out of the team to fully recover so I would like to see Watt get a start - he has done more in his cameos than Harriott has in several games so hopefully is now nearer to being match-fit. Just need to get a big lump to do the hold-up work first.
Earlier in the season we were going well - it's largely the same players now so we just need to get that feelgood factor going again - and one of the most important components missing is each and every one of us supporting the team - and losing the poisonous atmosphere currently surrounding everything we do.
Those same old calls to support the team are dead now sadly Swidsom.
The team and the owners are now part of a network not our Charlton the club we all follow. Yes support the club we love I agree but destroy the team and network in anyway you can
I understand your feelings re final paragraph.
I still want the team to win BUT for me what goes on in 90 minutes on a Saturday is almost irrelevant.
Hope I have not contradicted myself too much there!
"It's the red and white kit and the badge that make this club what it is."
No, its not. You can't just stick a red and white shirt and a badge on any old player and say "thats Charlton, so support it".
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Thats why this club doesn't feel like Charlton.
I'll leave it to the wise words of a very, very wise man....
I always support the team, but that doesn't mean I have to support the regime. These people are not football people, they do not support "the club". They are in it for themselves. When it all goes tits up, and the way these jokers are messing around I fear that will be sooner rather than later, Two Shacks will just walk away to take on some other retirement project that will while away the hours. He's dabbled in business, he's dabbled in politics, now he's dabbling in football (very badly). I only hope that he gets bored with it pretty quickly and finds some other pastime to spend his gilt-edged free time on.
As for the fans, why shouldn't they be upset? The club has been given a central role a farce so convoluted that even Alan Aykbourn couldn't make it up. I usually think of myself as an optimistic sort of person, but the bottom line is this: there is absolutely nothing to be positive about. Week after week we are dished up a diet of bilge. There is little skill in the team and less effort or passion. There's a merry-go-round of second rate players who have no idea where or what Charlton is when they arrive and who, for the most part, are shipped out before they've even had a chance to find out. Cynicism, anger and hostility are all that many fans have to make the tedium and disappointment bearable. Good luck to all Charlton fans whatever their disposition. The ride looks like it's gonna be bumpy and, for the most, part downhill. Just do whatever you need to to get through it. And remember, when the Belgian blight gives up and goes home, it is us that will still be here.
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Can the 'values' and 'principles' be defined?
Not sitting on either side of the fence but how are the 'values dear to our hearts' different than when Slater et al were in charge?
Or as we plummeted down League 1?
When Slater and Jiminez were in charge they appointed a manager who knew more than anyone what this football club stood for.
That manager then went and brought in a group of players who by and large will have considered playing for Charlton the biggest achievement of their career to dates, and in 5-10 years time those players will probably be thought of as 'Charlton men'.
To me Slater and Jiminez were just an anonymous couple who I knew nothing of apart from what was spouted on here. But what I could see with my own two eyes (the manager, players, connection with the fans) was 10x more aligned with what a special club like Charlton is about compared to what we see today.
Even when we plummeted down to League One I still felt more connection with the likes of Parkinson, Shelvey, Burton, Dailly etc. than any of this new lot.
Slater and Jimenez didn't get involved in the day-to-day running of the club (with rare exceptions!). Jimenez made three personal interventions on the playing side to my knowledge - the signings of Mikel Alonso and Leon Clarke, plus the bungling of Dale Stephens' move to Aston Villa - which perhaps tells you why they were wise to keep out of it.
Comments
However I do think he should be judged by this time next season not this as he should have two full transfer windows ( not Jan they are a load of over priced panicking shit)
There is time for reaction but I don't think now is that time
The fact is there are plenty of teams out there with far worse support then ours but still manage to get results, still manage to come from behind and win games.
No, its not. You can't just stick a red and white shirt and a badge on any old player and say "thats Charlton, so support it".
What makes the club what it is are the principles and values behind it. Those principles and values dear to the hearts of your typical Charlton fan are a million miles away from what is being thrust upon us by those who make the decisions.
Thats why this club doesn't feel like Charlton.
I'll leave it to the wise words of a very, very wise man....
Roland hates his mum.
That's how it works - it takes them and us to make it happen, but to a large extent it has to start with the players. If they come out against Norwich and play like they care, get stuck in, look dangerous etc the crowd will respond and forget all about RD for the duration of the game.
It's not realistic to demand that people create a cauldron of noise for a shit, lifeless performance.
Those disillusioned with the club aren't expecting anything more than a reason to feel a connection with Charlton. An assurance that those in charge are taking it in the right direction, care about the fans and make decisions in OUR best interests and no-one elses. Is that really expecting the world? I don't see anyone demanding big-name players or top 10 finishes. On the contrary, when we sold our two best players this time last year the vast majority were prepared to accept the decision and see how it played out.
This is not about expecting the world. I was more content as a Charlton fan when we were in League One. I was more content as a Charlton fan when we were struggling under Powell last season. But yeah, this is all about dummy fans being impatient and not appreciating the fact our owner spent some spare change on the pitch.
No whispers, or rumours, or anyone remotely ITK ?
Not sitting on either side of the fence but how are the 'values dear to our hearts' different than when Slater et al were in charge?
Or as we plummeted down League 1?
Now it is a network and its team playing out some sort of fanatical business plan not for football success that the fans want but for cheap profit, leaving the fans out of the equation
I'm not saying don't support the team, but the 'you don't know what you're doing' "crap" was about a lot more than a substitution. It was an expression of the frustration of watching our club blow the momentum of a League One title and a 9th place finish almost overnight, exchanging decades of relative stability for a new manager every 3 months. EVERY 3 MONTHS!
The feelgood factor won't return until we have stability and the feeling we're heading in the right direction. It won't matter if it takes a few years provided we know things are getting better each one, that the owner, manager, CEO, players and fans all get the club and are behind where it's heading.
I still want the team to win BUT for me what goes on in 90 minutes on a Saturday is almost irrelevant.
Hope I have not contradicted myself too much there!
As for the fans, why shouldn't they be upset? The club has been given a central role a farce so convoluted that even Alan Aykbourn couldn't make it up. I usually think of myself as an optimistic sort of person, but the bottom line is this: there is absolutely nothing to be positive about. Week after week we are dished up a diet of bilge. There is little skill in the team and less effort or passion. There's a merry-go-round of second rate players who have no idea where or what Charlton is when they arrive and who, for the most part, are shipped out before they've even had a chance to find out. Cynicism, anger and hostility are all that many fans have to make the tedium and disappointment bearable. Good luck to all Charlton fans whatever their disposition. The ride looks like it's gonna be bumpy and, for the most, part downhill. Just do whatever you need to to get through it. And remember, when the Belgian blight gives up and goes home, it is us that will still be here.
That manager then went and brought in a group of players who by and large will have considered playing for Charlton the biggest achievement of their career to dates, and in 5-10 years time those players will probably be thought of as 'Charlton men'.
To me Slater and Jiminez were just an anonymous couple who I knew nothing of apart from what was spouted on here. But what I could see with my own two eyes (the manager, players, connection with the fans) was 10x more aligned with what a special club like Charlton is about compared to what we see today.
Even when we plummeted down to League One I still felt more connection with the likes of Parkinson, Shelvey, Burton, Dailly etc. than any of this new lot.