With smaller attendance than us, although after reading posts on CL that could change. Bournemouth show what can be achieved with sound investment in good players and management.
To be fair I think Bournemouth only spent large fees on Wilson (Money well spent) and Rantie who has been a bit of a flop. The rest of that side have been brought in on small fees, loans and free transfers.
To be fair I think Bournemouth only spent large fees on Wilson (Money well spent) and Rantie who has been a bit of a flop. The rest of that side have been brought in on small fees, loans and free transfers.
They made a loss of 15 million in their last season in League One. That's not small fry. They've spent even more in the Championship and their owner is flouting FFP completely and pumping yet more money in through a fake sponsor. I'm not an RD fan but Bournemouth are not a club to copied.
Not only spending illegal (under FFP) amounts on playing staff, but massively under-investing in their stadium at the same time. Think how much we've spent on the valley, or other clubs have spent on new grounds/stands. Same way Fulham funded their rise from the lower divisions back in the 90s, by completely ignoring the Taylor report and outspending their competitors who were removing terracing, or having to fund whole new stadiums.
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
All astute signings. Any idea how much each one is getting per week?
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
All astute signings. Any idea how much each one is getting per week?
Not sure tbh, I could probably have a decent guess but I thought It was interesting to see how little they spent on a side that are looking good for promotion.
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
All astute signings. Any idea how much each one is getting per week?
Not sure tbh, I could probably have a decent guess but I thought It was interesting to see how little they spent on a side that are looking good for promotion.
that's the kick in the teeth right there. when roland first came in I actually believed as did a fair few others that a couple of additions to the squad could have made us a challenger for promotion. don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of money you just need to do a bit of decent scouting.
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
All astute signings. Any idea how much each one is getting per week?
Not sure tbh, I could probably have a decent guess but I thought It was interesting to see how little they spent on a side that are looking good for promotion.
What's your guess? (I've heard figures banded about for Kermorgant but I really don't have a clue whether they are accurate). They also signed the South African, Rantie for over £2m although they did sell Grabban for a fair chunk.
Spending huge sums not the answer but neither is a policy of bringing in the discards from your other clubs and expecting them to become outstanding footballers overnight
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
With Hamer, Kermy, Poyet, Morro, Solly, Wiggins, Cousins, Wilson, Stephens and Gomez, RD inherited some real Championship quality. If he had been advised correctly and spent £5M say on the right players we would be right up there challenging, instead we must have spent that sort of cash on average players and Eurotrash.
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
Just thinking aloud, but I reckon the fixed costs - principally operating from The Valley - would complicate that, e.g. business rates, safety certificate staffing requirements, traffic management and street cleaning costs. You don't really save much even by closing stands and you might well lose more in revenue than you would save.
I would think if we got relegated this season RD would be lucky to get 5,000 ST holders next year, because of the circumstances, so you could easily be looking at gates of 7,000 including away fans.
Player costs would fall, but other costs would increase as a percentage of turnover. Equally transfer receipts would potentially rise in the same way, but commercial revenue would fall even further. He might actually be better off playing behind closed doors, if that was allowed. Better not tell him, though ...
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
Just thinking aloud, but I reckon the fixed costs - principally operating from The Valley - would complicate that, e.g. business rates, safety certificate staffing requirements, traffic management and street cleaning costs. You don't really save much even by closing stands and you might well lose more in revenue than you would save.
I would think if we got relegated this season RD would be lucky to get 5,000 ST holders next year, because of the circumstances, so you could easily be looking at gates of 7,000 including away fans.
Player costs would fall, but other costs would increase as a percentage of turnover. Equally transfer receipts would potentially rise in the same way, but commercial revenue would fall even further. He might actually be better off playing behind closed doors, if that was allowed. Better not tell him, though ...
OK, so let's assume we stay around the bottom half of the Championship, and RD has no specific plan to reduce the principle operating cost, i.e.move from of sell off part of the Valley, he could possibly still maintain the club as an economically sustainable entity in the Championship, wouldn't you think, without going for promotion to the PL? (He hasn't promised us promotion has he?, or anything else of note?)
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
Just thinking aloud, but I reckon the fixed costs - principally operating from The Valley - would complicate that, e.g. business rates, safety certificate staffing requirements, traffic management and street cleaning costs. You don't really save much even by closing stands and you might well lose more in revenue than you would save.
I would think if we got relegated this season RD would be lucky to get 5,000 ST holders next year, because of the circumstances, so you could easily be looking at gates of 7,000 including away fans.
Player costs would fall, but other costs would increase as a percentage of turnover. Equally transfer receipts would potentially rise in the same way, but commercial revenue would fall even further. He might actually be better off playing behind closed doors, if that was allowed. Better not tell him, though ...
OK, so let's assume we stay around the bottom half of the Championship, and RD has no specific plan to reduce the principle operating cost, i.e.move from of sell off part of the Valley, he could possibly still maintain the club as an economically sustainable entity in the Championship, wouldn't you think, without going for promotion to the PL? (He hasn't promised us promotion has he?, or anything else of note?)
I don't think so because you'd either have to eliminate the cost of the players altogether, which would lead to relegation, or sell players every year to the value of the loss plus whatever is required to offset any decline in other income (tickets and other commercial). Bearing in mind last season's losses were net of £1.7m transfer income the gap is too big - although I appreciate he may think he can cover it with sales. But then he also thought Loic Nego should play for us at centre half.
You can look at any of the top eight clubs and they all have a few things in common. They have three or four decent strikers; they have been building their squads for two or three years and they have a mix of youth players, expensive signings and loans from the FAPL.
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
Just thinking aloud, but I reckon the fixed costs - principally operating from The Valley - would complicate that, e.g. business rates, safety certificate staffing requirements, traffic management and street cleaning costs. You don't really save much even by closing stands and you might well lose more in revenue than you would save.
I would think if we got relegated this season RD would be lucky to get 5,000 ST holders next year, because of the circumstances, so you could easily be looking at gates of 7,000 including away fans.
Player costs would fall, but other costs would increase as a percentage of turnover. Equally transfer receipts would potentially rise in the same way, but commercial revenue would fall even further. He might actually be better off playing behind closed doors, if that was allowed. Better not tell him, though ...
OK, so let's assume we stay around the bottom half of the Championship, and RD has no specific plan to reduce the principle operating cost, i.e.move from of sell off part of the Valley, he could possibly still maintain the club as an economically sustainable entity in the Championship, wouldn't you think, without going for promotion to the PL? (He hasn't promised us promotion has he?, or anything else of note?)
I don't think so because you'd either have to eliminate the cost of the players altogether, which would lead to relegation, or sell players every year to the value of the loss plus whatever is required to offset any decline in other income (tickets and other commercial). Bearing in mind last season's losses were net of £1.7m transfer income the gap is too big - although I appreciate he may think he can cover it with sales. But then he also thought Loic Nego should play for us at centre half.
Thanks for your thoughts AB. I think it's true to say we haven't yet seen what the 'sales policy' is yet. There have been the departures of Kermogant/Morrison/ Poyet, but these don't tell us if RD is looking to implement a 'sell for profit' or 'develop and sell' strategy, nor specifically one that bridges shortfalls in other trading income. Time will tell of course.
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
800k on Matt Tubbs is worth mentioning too. Outrageous money for the third tier.
It's because of clubs like them that FFP has failed and the playing field will never be level.
Bournemouth are a club to follow in the sense that they are top of the league and football's governing bodies seem to be unwilling or unable ( or both) to deal with their creditor dumping administrations ,breach of FFP ,murky ownership and sponsorship situation and three not four stands at their ground. Over such a short space of time to come from having a part time farm boy and combine harvester driver (Fletcher) as their principal striker to Calum Wilson for a club like them is very worrying with respect to what is going on in football . Sepp Blatter might take regular holidays on the South Coast for all we know .
Just out of interest I went through the first 11 at Bournemouth to see how much they paid for them.
Artur Boruc (Loan) Simon Francis (Free) Steve Cook 150k Elliot Ward (Free) Charlie Daniels (200k) Matt Ritchie (500k) Harry Arter (40,000) Andrew Surman (Undisclosed) Marc Pugh (100k) Kermorgant (Undisclosed) Callum Wilson (3 million)
800k on Matt Tubbs is worth mentioning too. Outrageous money for the third tier.
It's because of clubs like them that FFP has failed and the playing field will never be level.
Didn't they get about £6m for Grabban from Norwich? That covers the cost of the whole team then.
Comments
Artur Boruc (Loan)
Simon Francis (Free)
Steve Cook 150k
Elliot Ward (Free)
Charlie Daniels (200k)
Matt Ritchie (500k)
Harry Arter (40,000)
Andrew Surman (Undisclosed)
Marc Pugh (100k)
Kermorgant (Undisclosed)
Callum Wilson (3 million)
And they've won 14 or so games.
Now RD hasn't had that long to build a squad but he did have the advantage of some decent academy players and a network scouting system plus spare players at Liege.
But why did it take so long to find a reserve keeper? And why no number 9? And why has Darren Bent played for two championship clubs this season but not us? Football is decided on thin margins but it helps to go out to bat with a decent team and bench.
If RD isn't prepared to invest then he had better sell up before he has to write off the £20m spent to date. You don't make money sitting in the bottom half of the Championship. The only way to make money is to become a yo-yo club. Sure competing at the top of the championship means bigger losses. But the prize is enormous and our players become worth more such that one sale can make a big dent in the losses.
That's how Bournemouth got through FFP for last season as they got lucky with Lallana going to Liverpool.
Good post but what if he doesn't want to make money but just re-create the club as a sustainable entity? Level us off somewhere, anywhere, doesn't matter to him, top 10 of league 1 say? ..like a successful Crewe Alexandra? His books and politics to date suggest that might be his ambition.
I would think if we got relegated this season RD would be lucky to get 5,000 ST holders next year, because of the circumstances, so you could easily be looking at gates of 7,000 including away fans.
Player costs would fall, but other costs would increase as a percentage of turnover. Equally transfer receipts would potentially rise in the same way, but commercial revenue would fall even further. He might actually be better off playing behind closed doors, if that was allowed. Better not tell him, though ...
It's because of clubs like them that FFP has failed and the playing field will never be level.