Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
I asked a question about the objectives of "a challenging Championship team" and "Breaking Even" and what was the time frame. I don't feel that the answer was very clear, except that "Break-Even" appears to be more of an aspiration than an objective and there was no specific timeframe.
The club is looking to retain the existing squad, but Eagles and Johnson will have to work to get a new contract, she is looking to bring in 2-3 players over the summer and bring in revenue from player sales, who are not involved in the first team squad. Like me the immediate response from one was that won't amount to much money, but its was then pointed out Polish Pete, Rezza and George (?).
She has a budget target each season for player sales, the budget for player purchases are flexible and next season a decision will be made based on possibility of promotion of what investment in players will be made in January.
Under Bob the players got to feel they were the "worst players in the world" and Bob could not turn the loss of confidence around. Pointed out that we are now winning in a better way than we were at the begining of the season.
Roland decides the transfer price, KM said she negotiates the best price. It did not appear that there is a specific transfer price policy.
She calls Roland to his face but calls him The Owner to "us" because we can't pronounce his name - its a sort of gutteral pronunciation.
Morning Kap. Those are the questions that most interest me so thanks for giving it a go.
Re the bit in bold above, does that refer to transfers within the network? Did you understand it to mean that, say, RD sets a price for, say, Tony Watt, and Katrien will try to push him down a bit (of course the quote price for TWWW is currently looking like a bargain, but I'm just trying to understand the system)
He decides (she explained) the transfer fees between network clubs. I suspect it is done for various FFP and Tax reasons. However, she did explain at Ashford that her budgeting does not include 'extra' signings that the Owner wants to make. Thus Vetokele was not within our budget yet he signed him anyway.
I have no idea but I am inclined to believe that inter network transfer fees are not included in the club's budgets, so they are irrelevant, except for the purposes of FFP and Tax calculations in the different member states.
Without looking like an apologist for the network model Tony Watt has, in my view, put the network in credit for us. The players we signed last January didn't all work out, but we stayed up - which was the only realistic goal last season (ignoring the FA Cup, which we never expected to win anyway). Bulot and Buyerns have given good accounts of themselves, all be it not in every game they've played, and Tony Watt has been the best signing of the lot of them. In fact, apart from Tudadean, who I'm still not sure about, I don't think we have signed any players that haven't worked out at all this season.
I can't, personally, see any alternative to RD deciding the transfer fees between the network clubs. He, no doubt, decides which players will be allowed to move and on that basis, once he's made that decision KM and her equivalent have no negotiating power.
I think Watt and the free signings were the right players for us regardless of where they came from. That includes character as well as their playing qualities. That's the key point for me - if the right player with the right character and playing qualities exists within the network and is available then it would be foolish not to use it, but a year ago it seemed just any spare part was sent over regardless of their suitability. Dmitrovic may be the exception that proves the rule.
Glad the meeting went well, and the accounts are very much appreciated - thanks all.
I've been generally skeptical of the owners and still have fundamental reservations about the network as a concept but most of what I've read there is encouraging and hard to take issue with, in fact I almost felt optimistic (though this isn't really in my nature).
Time will tell whether Charlton can genuinely still be considered an entity in its own right (which remains just about the most important thing to me) but between HI's notes and the recent run of form I'm feeling a lot more comfortable with it than I did as I sat reading the Chris Powell interview immediately before the Huddersfield game.
Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
That's not to say that I don't still have reservations.
In part that is because the comms around the business haven't been good as KM said.
There is more she can do and I still think fan communication, involvement and input are valuable assets to be "sweated" by the club. Meetings like this are one very public but limited method of doing this but something is better than nothing.
And while the recent signings have made more sense there is still Lapoint on a two and a half year deal plus we have to see if it continues.
Thanks for all the info. I've been flitting around the EU a lot lately so haven't had a chance to sit down and catch up with everything. Sounds like a positive meeting, which is great. I'm particularly pleased with the comments regarding keeping the team we have and adding to it. I've become worried of late that we will see one or two of our big players off-loaded. I feel a bit more relaxed about that now. I hope the club keep their word.
Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
without being there how can you comment?
perhaps Ken can clear this one up
I think the risk is that the longer the Trust and the Club are not 'getting along' the more it will split fans. There was a genuine feeling there last night that some are unhappy with the Trust, specifically, the fact that they believe that it doesn't speak for them but 'claims' to do so.
I know that the Trust board are all Charlton fans and want what is best for the club but it is interesting that fans seemed to engage with the Trust last season when Chris Powell was dismissed but lost interest when Riga started to win. Again, this season, when we hadn't won for three months there was a clamour for the Trust to lead the way in opposing the current ownership but now, five wins in six later, the fans are won over by KM and don't feel the same hostility towards her or RD.
I have to confess that I am not sure I am comfortable with the idea that the Trust 'speaks' for me, and in light of the comments by KM last night I would not be quick to announce my association with it. That is not meant as a criticism just an observation. Their can't, in my view, be any winners if the Trust follows (and I'm not saying it is or plans to) a path of hostility towards the club - especially if the team keep winning and the owners keep bringing in new heroes.
Surely if we have a properly run club that takes decisions based on what is best for Charlton and demonstrates that it is capable of taking the fans along with them for the ride, there will be no splitting. It starts with them. Remember many fans have been annoyed by what has gone on since the take over and the Trust has responded to that. The coming months will demonstrate how much has been learned by KM and RD, and if they really do care about the club and the fans, the actions they take going forward will prove that.
And I think that after recent events it maybe gave her a more positive view of us fans.
And she had her photo taken with fans
And she put some money in for the upbeats
And she left to get the 10.33 train back to Victoria so she must be an Addick
Yes Henry, afterwards I bumped into her on the station whilst waiting for my coast train. She asked me about buying a ticket because the ticket office was closed. I directed her to the machines outside the station. When she came back, she thanked me, joking she imagined the headline 'Charlton CEO in ticket fine scandal'! I asked her if she enjoyed the evening and she said yes. Easy for her to say but it sounded genuine. It's hard not to like her.
I think the Trust have been damned if they do and damned if they don't. Many of us were very concerned after the nature of Luzon's appointment, many long time fans were talking about boycotting games and not renewing season tickets, had the Trust done nothing at this time then I think they would have been criticised. They were roundly congratulated on organising the meeting, because KM now says it was hostile and she is back in favour is not a reason to get on the Trust's back.
Not saying that they're perfect, only that they were genuinely acting on behalf of many of us and I don't think it's now fair to criticise them for it. They can't speak for all fans in the same way that surprisingly few people get the government that they voted for but I do believe that their motive is genuine and would rather have them there than not.
Can I just add my view of what happened regarding Ken. A rather damming comment was made about those seeking a meeting, from the floor, Katrien also made a comment about her relationship with the Trust. Ken asked if he could respond as he was on the Trust board. Ken wad not offensive or abusive or confrontational. However it was pointed out to him that he had agreed to only observe and he responded by saying ok and sitting down. During this time there was no raised voices. Confrontation or abuse from any party.
I am a member of the Trust. I did not go to that meeting as I was not unhappy with the way the club was progressing.
I did understand why others did and believed then as I do now, that the trust was quite right to organise the meeting. At the end of the day it is a vehicle through which the fans can express their views and feelings. If it was not there, you would want to invent it.
Because fans felt helpless and concerned it was negative. Ķ should not feel agrieved, it has and will happen at any club when similar uncertainties arise.
She needs to take her own advice and move on. She should be big enough to invite them in and build some bridges. I am sure the Bromley crowd are all top supporters. So are those at the trust.
And while we are winning would be the best time to start. Together we are stronger. (After beating Millwall would be best).
Have now finished reading Henry's and others' contributions to the report of last night's meeting.
Thanks again for such a comprehensive account with very little missed out. It was an evening full of positive questions which in turn resulted in positive answers, if that makes any sense. The feeling that we were all on the same side came across strongly for me, albeit that our thought processes may differ.
But it's also the feeling that the way that RD thinks/the reasoning behind decisions made is slowly but surely becoming clearer. By asking questions respectfully, by engaging in dialogue where both parties feel comfortable & not threatened, appears to be the best possible way towards establishing a good relationship between fans and "the Club".
On the whole, this is the modus operandi of the Fans' Forum but there are clearly defined boundaries at present which limit the degree to which certain issues can be addressed. On two occasions, Katrien has indicated that the remit may be widened and with the next meeting due on 2nd April, we may well see this happening. In effect, this would mean that a group of supporters representing varied areas of the fanbase, plus managers from departments within the Club meet on a regular basis with the CEO ( ie the owner's representative) to discuss a wider range of issues than currently allowed. Although this would invariably not appease CAST' s committee, they would have a representative present as now but have the same input as other represented groups. I believe that this is what Katrien now feels to be the fairest method of communication between fans and Club.
I am a member of the Trust. I did not go to that meeting as I was not unhappy with the way the club was progressing.
I did understand why others did and believed then as I do now, that the trust was quite right to organise the meeting. At the end of the day it is a vehicle through which the fans can express their views and feelings. If it was not there, you would want to invent it.
Because fans felt helpless and concerned it was negative. Ķ should not feel agrieved, it has and will happen at any club when similar uncertainties arise.
She needs to take her own advice and move on. She should be big enough to invite them in and build some bridges. I am sure the Bromley crowd are all top supporters. So are those at the trust.
And while we are winning would be the best time to start. Together we are stronger. (After beating Millwall would be best).
I don't think the Woolwich meeting was the only reason KM was discontented with the Trust. A few people on here have mentioned that it wasn't just a Trust meeting or that people were unhappy and had legitimate concerns all of which is fine.
However it was clear to me, and apologies if my notes didn't reflect that, that it is wider than that and relates to the demands for exclusive meetings and demands to go over her head to RD especially when she says she has already met with the Trust.
The meeting was also a factor though IMHO
Can bridges be rebuilt? I hope so and I and other stressed the value of collaborative working with fans previously and how it could work in the future but it takes longer to build a bridge up than it does to knock it down.
Have now finished reading Henry's and others' contributions to the report of last night's meeting.
Thanks again for such a comprehensive account with very little missed out. It was an evening full of positive questions which in turn resulted in positive answers, if that makes any sense. The feeling that we were all on the same side came across strongly for me, albeit that our thought processes may differ.
But it's also the feeling that the way that RD thinks/the reasoning behind decisions made is slowly but surely becoming clearer. By asking questions respectfully, by engaging in dialogue where both parties feel comfortable & not threatened, appears to be the best possible way towards establishing a good relationship between fans and "the Club".
On the whole, this is the modus operandi of the Fans' Forum but there are clearly defined boundaries at present which limit the degree to which certain issues can be addressed. On two occasions, Katrien has indicated that the remit may be widened and with the next meeting due on 2nd April, we may well see this happening. In effect, this would mean that a group of supporters representing varied areas of the fanbase, plus managers from departments within the Club meet on a regular basis with the CEO ( ie the owner's representative) to discuss a wider range of issues than currently allowed. Although this would invariably not appease CAST' s committee, they would have a representative present as now but have the same input as other represented groups. I believe that this is what Katrien now feels to be the fairest method of communication between fans and Club.
Have now finished reading Henry's and others' contributions to the report of last night's meeting.
Thanks again for such a comprehensive account with very little missed out. It was an evening full of positive questions which in turn resulted in positive answers, if that makes any sense. The feeling that we were all on the same side came across strongly for me, albeit that our thought processes may differ.
But it's also the feeling that the way that RD thinks/the reasoning behind decisions made is slowly but surely becoming clearer. By asking questions respectfully, by engaging in dialogue where both parties feel comfortable & not threatened, appears to be the best possible way towards establishing a good relationship between fans and "the Club".
On the whole, this is the modus operandi of the Fans' Forum but there are clearly defined boundaries at present which limit the degree to which certain issues can be addressed. On two occasions, Katrien has indicated that the remit may be widened and with the next meeting due on 2nd April, we may well see this happening. In effect, this would mean that a group of supporters representing varied areas of the fanbase, plus managers from departments within the Club meet on a regular basis with the CEO ( ie the owner's representative) to discuss a wider range of issues than currently allowed. Although this would invariably not appease CAST' s committee, they would have a representative present as now but have the same input as other represented groups. I believe that this is what Katrien now feels to be the fairest method of communication between fans and Club.
Have now finished reading Henry's and others' contributions to the report of last night's meeting.
Thanks again for such a comprehensive account with very little missed out. It was an evening full of positive questions which in turn resulted in positive answers, if that makes any sense. The feeling that we were all on the same side came across strongly for me, albeit that our thought processes may differ.
But it's also the feeling that the way that RD thinks/the reasoning behind decisions made is slowly but surely becoming clearer. By asking questions respectfully, by engaging in dialogue where both parties feel comfortable & not threatened, appears to be the best possible way towards establishing a good relationship between fans and "the Club".
On the whole, this is the modus operandi of the Fans' Forum but there are clearly defined boundaries at present which limit the degree to which certain issues can be addressed. On two occasions, Katrien has indicated that the remit may be widened and with the next meeting due on 2nd April, we may well see this happening. In effect, this would mean that a group of supporters representing varied areas of the fanbase, plus managers from departments within the Club meet on a regular basis with the CEO ( ie the owner's representative) to discuss a wider range of issues than currently allowed. Although this would invariably not appease CAST' s committee, they would have a representative present as now but have the same input as other represented groups. I believe that this is what Katrien now feels to be the fairest method of communication between fans and Club.
But, as I've mentioned before, what do I know ?
A lot more than you let on : - )
Good points, well made.
So where's my like, Henners ?
There you go but don't ask again or I'll tell everyone about you and door on the way out : - )
Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
without being there how can you comment?
perhaps Ken can clear this one up
Very simple. I can read what other people wrote and speak to another person who was in attendance.
Note that I said appears to have overstepped not did overstep.
I shouldn't really be surprised that you spring up with a defensive reaponse though should I?.
Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
without being there how can you comment?
perhaps Ken can clear this one up
Very simple. I can read what other people wrote and speak to another person who was in attendance.
Note that I said appears to have overstepped not did overstep.
I shouldn't really be surprised that you spring up with a defensive reaponse though should I?.
Don't know who you spoke to but Kap10 above sums it up exactly how it happens. Ken? Hardly over stepped the mark.
My point earlier was that I thought he should have been given the right of reply as Katrien had just said that the Trust had organised a meeting against the club/owners, which, IMO was simply untrue. From his few, quiet and reasonable words he was allowed Ken did not sound like he was going to side track the meeting. Just my opinion and I thought it was a shame but I don't run Bromley Addicks and they can run their meetings as they wish.
Two more things, whenKM says 'what other championship fans want to talk to the owner' I would counter with 'what other Championship fans set up their own political party, had elected reps on the board and have been so heavily involved with their clubs and been spoilt by previous owners honesty', to me these things are important as they set us aside from other clubs and owners /CEO's should understand this...I know, move on!
Secondly, I am really looking forward to the players coming back from The Den to The Valley on a bus to party with the crowd after we beat them. Sounds a great idea.
Thanks for write ups. Bit concerning that she acknowledged clubs are asking after TWWW. That's one of my reservation about the network model. Is the philosophy to sell as soon as we get a half decent offer?
thanks for the write ups i've skim read it all and i am the only one who finds it weird that someone (is it Ken or Athletico or whoever ) who is a fan and happens to be a member of the Trust Board is not allowed to speak ?? or have i totally misread the situation and also why wouldn't the said individual just go along as themselves rather than with the Trust Board badge on
Comments
Shame that the Trust Representative appears to have overstepped their remit. They really aren't doing much to win Katrien over. My feeling has been for sometime that that ship has sailed.
Interesting comment around income from player sales. The hint is that they won't be actively seeking to offload the high value (better) players, but I assume everyone has a price.
If we can keep the core together and add 2-3 we should be in a good place next season. Confident that my Season Ticket renewal was a good idea.
Glad the meeting went well, and the accounts are very much appreciated - thanks all.
Time will tell whether Charlton can genuinely still be considered an entity in its own right (which remains just about the most important thing to me) but between HI's notes and the recent run of form I'm feeling a lot more comfortable with it than I did as I sat reading the Chris Powell interview immediately before the Huddersfield game.
perhaps Ken can clear this one up
That's not to say that I don't still have reservations.
In part that is because the comms around the business haven't been good as KM said.
There is more she can do and I still think fan communication, involvement and input are valuable assets to be "sweated" by the club. Meetings like this are one very public but limited method of doing this but something is better than nothing.
And while the recent signings have made more sense there is still Lapoint on a two and a half year deal plus we have to see if it continues.
But things are looking more positive IMHO
I know that the Trust board are all Charlton fans and want what is best for the club but it is interesting that fans seemed to engage with the Trust last season when Chris Powell was dismissed but lost interest when Riga started to win. Again, this season, when we hadn't won for three months there was a clamour for the Trust to lead the way in opposing the current ownership but now, five wins in six later, the fans are won over by KM and don't feel the same hostility towards her or RD.
I have to confess that I am not sure I am comfortable with the idea that the Trust 'speaks' for me, and in light of the comments by KM last night I would not be quick to announce my association with it. That is not meant as a criticism just an observation. Their can't, in my view, be any winners if the Trust follows (and I'm not saying it is or plans to) a path of hostility towards the club - especially if the team keep winning and the owners keep bringing in new heroes.
And I think that after recent events it maybe gave her a more positive view of us fans.
And she had her photo taken with fans
And she put some money in for the upbeats
And she left to get the 10.33 train back to Victoria so she must be an Addick
Yes Henry, afterwards I bumped into her on the station whilst waiting for my coast train. She asked me about buying a ticket because the ticket office was closed. I directed her to the machines outside the station. When she came back, she thanked me, joking she imagined the headline 'Charlton CEO in ticket fine scandal'!
I asked her if she enjoyed the evening and she said yes. Easy for her to say but it sounded genuine. It's hard not to like her.
Not saying that they're perfect, only that they were genuinely acting on behalf of many of us and I don't think it's now fair to criticise them for it. They can't speak for all fans in the same way that surprisingly few people get the government that they voted for but I do believe that their motive is genuine and would rather have them there than not.
I did understand why others did and believed then as I do now, that the trust was quite right to organise the meeting. At the end of the day it is a vehicle through which the fans can express their views and feelings. If it was not there, you would want to invent it.
Because fans felt helpless and concerned it was negative. Ķ should not feel agrieved, it has and will happen at any club when similar uncertainties arise.
She needs to take her own advice and move on. She should be big enough to invite them in and build some bridges. I am sure the Bromley crowd are all top supporters. So are those at the trust.
And while we are winning would be the best time to start. Together we are stronger. (After beating Millwall would be best).
Thanks again for such a comprehensive account with very little missed out. It was an evening full of positive questions which in turn resulted in positive answers, if that makes any sense. The feeling that we were all on the same side came across strongly for me, albeit that our thought processes may differ.
But it's also the feeling that the way that RD thinks/the reasoning behind decisions made is slowly but surely becoming clearer. By asking questions respectfully, by engaging in dialogue where both parties feel comfortable & not threatened, appears to be the best possible way towards establishing a good relationship between fans and "the Club".
On the whole, this is the modus operandi of the Fans' Forum but there are clearly defined boundaries at present which limit the degree to which certain issues can be addressed. On two occasions, Katrien has indicated that the remit may be widened and with the next meeting due on 2nd April, we may well see this happening. In effect, this would mean that a group of supporters representing varied areas of the fanbase, plus managers from departments within the Club meet on a regular basis with the CEO ( ie the owner's representative) to discuss a wider range of issues than currently allowed. Although this would invariably not appease CAST' s committee, they would have a representative present as now but have the same input as other represented groups. I believe that this is what Katrien now feels to be the fairest method of communication between fans and Club.
But, as I've mentioned before, what do I know ?
However it was clear to me, and apologies if my notes didn't reflect that, that it is wider than that and relates to the demands for exclusive meetings and demands to go over her head to RD especially when she says she has already met with the Trust.
The meeting was also a factor though IMHO
Can bridges be rebuilt? I hope so and I and other stressed the value of collaborative working with fans previously and how it could work in the future but it takes longer to build a bridge up than it does to knock it down.
Good points, well made.
Note that I said appears to have overstepped not did overstep.
I shouldn't really be surprised that you spring up with a defensive reaponse though should I?.
My point earlier was that I thought he should have been given the right of reply as Katrien had just said that the Trust had organised a meeting against the club/owners, which, IMO was simply untrue. From his few, quiet and reasonable words he was allowed Ken did not sound like he was going to side track the meeting. Just my opinion and I thought it was a shame but I don't run Bromley Addicks and they can run their meetings as they wish.
Two more things, whenKM says 'what other championship fans want to talk to the owner' I would counter with 'what other Championship fans set up their own political party, had elected reps on the board and have been so heavily involved with their clubs and been spoilt by previous owners honesty', to me these things are important as they set us aside from other clubs and owners /CEO's should understand this...I know, move on!
Secondly, I am really looking forward to the players coming back from The Den to The Valley on a bus to party with the crowd after we beat them. Sounds a great idea.
All sounds very positive and encouraging.
Katrien said that RD wants all Clubs in the network to retain their own identity. Good to hear IMO.
That's one of my reservation about the network model. Is the philosophy to sell as soon as we get a half decent offer?
i've skim read it all and i am the only one who finds it weird that someone (is it Ken or Athletico or whoever ) who is a fan and happens to be a member of the Trust Board is not allowed to speak ?? or have i totally misread the situation
and also why wouldn't the said individual just go along as themselves rather than with the Trust Board badge on