I'm sure someone else would have came along and bought the club had RM not. So I hate it when people keep saying he saved us, he saved us. Administration didn't do Southampton any harm did it?I'm glad we didn't go into admin but it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Fair enough Roland has laid a new pitch with undersoil heating which we can't use until we go up anyway I might add, but he knew he had to do this before he bought the club. That would have been in his mind when negotiating the price im sure. This whole situation is not just about how well Charlton are doing in the league it's about losing the identity of the club... Anyway I wouldn't do anything like a protest yet I'd wait another ten games see how things go.
This attitude towards administration drives me nuts. Administration is not only about the football club. By and large associated creditors get shafted and lots of people potentially lose their livelihoods.
If we had gone into admin I believe a number of local businesses wouldn't have got paid. What might that have done to them?
Who's to say that we wouldn't have been in a sutuation like Rangers where no white knight appeared?
Just because Southampton were picked up by a rich family it doesn't mean other clubs will be too.
Ultimately, admin would have meant league one. League one clubs aren't going to attract "big hitters" in terms of takeovers. We could have been in league one with RD in charge anyway.
you don't have to have a riot, but maybe a show of support for the Trust as a symbol for an expression of discontent, perhaps a gathering at a certain time, whether this is the moment for that is a good question. But what it would do is show the Trust should be taken more seriously. Certainly by the next home match a lot of matters will be settled or mostly by the 31st - Rotherham? In the meantime fans should join up, and spread the word.
So going rate for walk out protest is one minute per year of Chairman's reign, I'll go for a one minute walkout, might get my early connection at Waterloo.
@PragueAddick Very good post, option 2 is definitely the way forward - have the club given any indication that they would listen to the trust, my fear is that the trust will be toothless in terms of being listened to because of RD's attitude or arrogance towards the fan base - the Liege fans rioted but have things changed for them??
Both are good questions. Currently we've understood - she has not told us directly - that she does not want to "favour one group over another" so up to now she thinks the Fan Forum is the only one. The argument against that is that our membership is way way bigger than any of the other groups in the FF. But Katrien may still, understandably, think we are "only 1000". In fact most Trusts are 1000 or less. Even the famous Swans Trust now has less than 800, even though membership gives them an effective share in the Swansea ownership. Trusts are really big only when things get critical, like at Portsmouth.
So for this reason we really need people to renew, and more to join. Help us show Katrien that we really represent a big block of fans.
The question about the effect of Liege fans rioting is very interesting. I have to be honest here, as someone else will otherwise soon point this out: this season the Liege fans rioted, and soon afterwards Luzon did lose his job. However it may be a trap to conclude that rioting forces RD to make decisions. Liege and its fans are a bit complicated. The Trust has developed good links to the Socios who are the biggest formal grouping and do have official representation. And believe me, they are not a bunch of pussies.They have already told us exactly what they think about Guy Luzon, and it is not complimentary. We will be talking to them about tactics, and we hope they will help us understand how RD thinks, and why he does what he does. It would of course be much better if he would tell us himself, but you can understand that if he thinks we are going to trash his office if we don't like what we hear, he's unlikely to agree. We have to try and show we are better than that.
Spot on Prague, and it picks up Henry's theme that the supporters actually can help RD realise his vision and prove not only our doubters but the wider football doubters wrong about his own theories.
Personally I believe the greatest issue at the moment is that the club are moving without taking their support with them. That may well produce lower attendances which will be to the long term detriment of the club, not just the now. Results will always help attendances but I note we had a good start to the season and our attendances really didn't reflect that.
The Supporters' Trust may not be perfect but I honestly believe it's the best vehicle Charlton supporters have, and the more people that back it the stronger our voice will be. More importantly, it will help ensure the Supporters' Trust understands and can represent the truest supporter view possible. The Trust hasn't given up hope of meaningful dialogue with the club, even though at times the outlook seems bleak in that regard, but the strength of the Supporters' Trust lies in number of supporters being represented and demonstrably being able to present the voice united.
My personal view is that dialogue is more important and would be considerably more fruitful than fan protests, which in my view will serve only to entrench the owner. So much better if we were able to join him and help him along the path he's mapped out, and maybe given the fans of other network clubs a leg up at the same time.
When the opposition score I will perform a dirty protest.................. then scream for the board to be sacked, before throwing my season ticket at Guy Luzon. I feel that behavior will be fitting to the type of overreactions we've had this week.
I'm sure someone else would have came along and bought the club had RM not. So I hate it when people keep saying he saved us, he saved us. Administration didn't do Southampton any harm did it?I'm glad we didn't go into admin but it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Fair enough Roland has laid a new pitch with undersoil heating which we can't use until we go up anyway I might add, but he knew he had to do this before he bought the club. That would have been in his mind when negotiating the price im sure. This whole situation is not just about how well Charlton are doing in the league it's about losing the identity of the club... Anyway I wouldn't do anything like a protest yet I'd wait another ten games see how things go.
This attitude towards administration drives me nuts. Administration is not only about the football club. By and large associated creditors get shafted and lots of people potentially loose their livlihoods.
If we had gone into admin I believe a number of local businesses wouldn't have got paid. What might that have done to them?
Who's to say that we wouldn't have been in a sutuation like Rangers where no white knight appeared?
Just because Southampton were picked up by a rich family it doesn't mean other clubs will be too.
Ultimately, admin would have meant league one. League one clubs aren't going to attract "big hitters" in terms of takeovers. We could have been in league ine with RD in charge anyway.
It's usually worse than that.
Administration is usually brought about by a demand by HMRC.
you don't have to have a riot, but maybe a show of support for the Trust as a symbol for an expression of discontent, perhaps a gathering at a certain time, whether this is the moment for that is a good question. But what it would do is show the Trust should be taken more seriously. Certainly by the next home match a lot of matters will be settled or mostly by the 31st - Rotherham? In the meantime fans should join up, and spread the word.
just my view
If fans are not happy this probably the best way of showing your discontent (never thought id say that) - not a member myself but my dad is but will join up the next home game razil. Think we should all take a deep breath and get behind the manager and boys for the rest of the season.
Are we really in that bad of a position to do that? He pulls his money out where do we go? Before he took us over we were on the brink of administration and getting our knickers in a twist over the old regime, he saved us and we're not doing that badly. We're protesting over being 14th in the Championship?
Couldn't agree more. We're mid table (albeit dropping, hence the managerial change), and mid transfer window.
If old Roly Poly gets us 2-3 more decent players to get us through to next summer (where I would hope we'd see similar improvements to last year) then surely the overall trend is positive rather than negative.
Yes he's a bit of a twat, and yes the heavy reliance on the network may feel unusual and at times insufficient, but a few years of mid table building might be just what we needed to recover from those horrible years in L1.
Sometimes I feel as though people have very short memories. We've not been good for a fair few years.
Glad to see some fans do have sense on here! it has become more and more frustrating to read all these posts regarding "throwing season tickets away" and the like.
As pointed out, we just scraped past relegation last season and I really can't believe how we have fans who are now demanding play-offs or better?!
RD has pumped more money in to this club than we have had spent on us since the Prem/parachute Champ days.
He laid out something like 2.5m on Vetokele and I wouldn't have thought it was cheap to tempt Henderson, Bikey and also Gudmunsson in, with Gudmunsson coming from a team who have been competing in Europe over the last 4/5 years (in terms of signing bonus and wages, I know they were free signings)
Another thing that is very frustrating is how all the negative posters on here constantly moan about the "network" players that RD has sent over. The most common names you see are Thuram and Nego.. who were here last season. Why are their names still being dragged up when people are laying in to RD?!?!
RD has obviously realised that the standard of player he sent us last season just was not high enough and this year he has arguably sent us some of our best players.
This season out of the "network" we've picked up:
Ben-Haim (arguably our player of the year so far) Buyens (clearly - for me anyway - a cut above the rest of our central midfielders) Watt (will be by far our best striker once match fit) Bulot (can't be overly judged as he's spent most of his time injured) Tucudean (shows glimpses here and there of real quality.. although ultimately he looks out of his depth and he can be the only real disappointment)
Ultimately, as many have said, RD is a businessman, who wants to make money out of his clubs.. he knows that realistically the only way he will do that with us is by getting us in to the Prem. I have nothing against that at all.
I think the trust sounds a fantastic way of challenging what is going on and, hopefully, bring about a change of behaviour by the club and I think this is the way forward for all who were in anyway unhappy with recent events. Far better than tearing up season tickets you have already paid for!
In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are not a member you are probably not a true supporter.
How do you join and can you join at the next home game?
Personally, I suspect that Katrien Meire and Richard Murray will have been surprised and a little shocked by the shitstorm on here and other social media about their handling of the head coach appointment. The possible "leaking" of stories about what led to Peeters' departure and the sudden, more illuminating than most article with KM in the Standard seem to indicate an acknowledgement that they needed to repair some damage.
Anyway, I hope that is the case - because it would indicate that a much needed lesson has been learned.
Saying in the Standard that we had better get used to how Roland operates is KM repairing some damage?
I agree that the reaction on social networks will have probably taken them by surprise (although actually maybe not if they think all football fans are the same after the way the SL supporters react to similar news)
I think this whole argument and feelings of discontent go well beyond more superficial matters like the squad and league performance. Since Roland took over, for me and many others, those things have been fairly irrelevant. It's the identity and fabric of the club, and the power/voice of the fans being lost in the network of a foreign businessmen that brings the concern.
Great to hear the Trust has been in contact with Liege supporters about sussing out tactics that may get through to Roland. We'll be stronger with their input. I do fear that a widespread apathy among our fans (as products of modern football) will make any meaningful supporter movement a challenge to get off the ground - but it will certainly have my support.
I read today that Villa fans are leaving the Holte End empty for 8 minutes tomorrow v Liverpool as a protest against Randy Lerner and his 8 years of owning Aston Villa.
My question is as a fanbase who are unhappy with the owner & board, are we prepared to do anything similar or have we reached the point where we are too apathetic & depressed about the situation.
is this something the trust would get involved with, yes it would p!ss the board off, but isn't the trust the voice of the fans? I read somewhere that KM doesn't see the trust as a true reflection of the fans as it only represents one opinion, if something widespread was organised & trust members & non-members were both involved then surely this must be seen as the opinion of the fanbase.
This isn't a dig at the trust by the way, just a genuine question.
HUGE OVER REACTION
Not all of us are unhappy, some of us are only mildly disgruntled.
Doesn't require protests etc yet.
If this decision had us heading for relegation, fair enough but now is a better time to change than feb/march.
Personally, I suspect that Katrien Meire and Richard Murray will have been surprised and a little shocked by the shitstorm on here and other social media about their handling of the head coach appointment. The possible "leaking" of stories about what led to Peeters' departure and the sudden, more illuminating than most article with KM in the Standard seem to indicate an acknowledgement that they needed to repair some damage.
Anyway, I hope that is the case - because it would indicate that a much needed lesson has been learned.
Saying in the Standard that we had better get used to how Roland operates is KM repairing some damage?
I agree that the reaction on social networks will have probably taken them by surprise (although actually maybe not if they think all football fans are the same after the way the SL supporters react to similar news)
No, but there were some other more conciliatory comments.
I am not sure that this regime would notice any protest of any kind, and if they did I'm not convinced they would give a damn anyway. I am not convinced that Charlton supporters feature in the plan/experiment at all. It is not too difficult to establish painted backdrops or holograms and to play crowd noise over the Tannoy.
I think the trust sounds a fantastic way of challenging what is going on and, hopefully, bring about a change of behaviour by the club and I think this is the way forward for all who were in anyway unhappy with recent events. Far better than tearing up season tickets you have already paid for!
In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are not a member you are probably not a true supporter.
How do you join and can you join at the next home game?
How many season ticket holders do we have? 8,9 thousand?
How many trust members? Over a thousand?
So going on your theory we have 7,8 thousand people possibly who are not true supporters!
I think the trust sounds a fantastic way of challenging what is going on and, hopefully, bring about a change of behaviour by the club and I think this is the way forward for all who were in anyway unhappy with recent events. Far better than tearing up season tickets you have already paid for!
In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are not a member you are probably not a true supporter.
How do you join and can you join at the next home game?
Afternoon, Mr P. You can join online for sure. Not sure if we have a stall against Rotherham but think so. But we need you now ! :-)
1. No one wanted Luzon. The players didn't want him, the fans didn't want him. Fair enough, he's a ridiculously inexperienced manager with a shite record in the israeli league. He was forced out of one of RD's other clubs due to poor results and yet Roland's ownership style means he was basically the only candidate for the job. Roland will do anything possible to not pay fees to clubs outside of the network leaving us with very little choice from a poor bunch. Which brings me on to the next point. 2. Lies. Having your owners say they interviewed 20 people and decided that Luzon was the best man for the job doesn't sit well with me. The longer we just politely accept it the worst it's going to get.
Roland and Katrien are manipulative, greedy, clueless wankers and they need to know that.
To be honest no matter who we brought in as manager there was going to be people outraged. If Paul Jewell (rumour he was a candidate) was brought in then KM and RD would have been accused of not having a clue. Who were we hoping for? Curbs? Curbs to just come in and pick up where he left off, minus the disgruntled fans saying the football was boring obviously.
All the fans didn't want Luzon? Not sure about that, I have no opinion on a manager before he has managed the team, I may not be excited but I will certainly be 100% behind them without the whispers of "i told you he was crap" when we might lose a game. I am not going to judge a manager whose previous team I had only barely seen in European competitions on tv. Like I never judged Riga or Peeters, because who knows what they can do before they are up and running with the squad.
Lets have a riot! I shall sit in my usual West Upper seat, and watch the game. Before hand I will set my alarm to wake me two minutes earlier than usual then stand up shout "boo, bring back Chris, sack the board etc" finish my coffee and leave.
1. No one wanted Luzon. The players didn't want him, the fans didn't want him. Fair enough, he's a ridiculously inexperienced manager with a shite record in the israeli league. He was forced out of one of RD's other clubs due to poor results and yet Roland's ownership style means he was basically the only candidate for the job. Roland will do anything possible to not pay fees to clubs outside of the network leaving us with very little choice from a poor bunch. Which brings me on to the next point. 2. Lies. Having your owners say they interviewed 20 people and decided that Luzon was the best man for the job doesn't sit well with me. The longer we just politely accept it the worst it's going to get.
Roland and Katrien are manipulative, greedy, clueless wankers and they need to know that.
how do you know that?.....or sorry, from an unsubstantiated article in the Evening Gooner!
Are we really in that bad of a position to do that? He pulls his money out where do we go? Before he took us over we were on the brink of administration and getting our knickers in a twist over the old regime, he saved us and we're not doing that badly. We're protesting over being 14th in the Championship?
People around me (WSL) were complaining when we were 8th in the Premiership!
I can't see us ever being organised or motivated enough to mount any kind of serious protest. A few gobshites by the statue when Pards fiddled over the last days of Rome. Assorted flops like Reed, Dowie and Parko got nothing. If finishing a long way bottom of the Championship with one of its most expensive squads isn't goint Similarly the debt ridden mess that Murray steered us into and the slightly bizarre Jiminez Slater axis keeping a low profile while the fixtures and fittings went to rack and ruin didn't raise a squeak. In any case there's only one effective protest. Doo Veela fans can wander off and grumble for 8 minutes (doubtlessly cramming their maws with pies and pints while they do so), and it won't have a blind bit of difference. If 10,000 of them don't go to 10 games it'll be noticed. If nobody buys a replica kit, it'll be noticed. If a whole stand boycots the pies it'll be noticed. And, if they cannot do without their creature comforts you might get noticed if you are prepared to grumble when the team is doing OK, but stamping your feet when you're the lowest scorers in the country (over 60% less than the next lowest, isn't going to draw any raised eyebrows really.
1. No one wanted Luzon. The players didn't want him, the fans didn't want him. Fair enough, he's a ridiculously inexperienced manager with a shite record in the israeli league. He was forced out of one of RD's other clubs due to poor results and yet Roland's ownership style means he was basically the only candidate for the job. Roland will do anything possible to not pay fees to clubs outside of the network leaving us with very little choice from a poor bunch. Which brings me on to the next point. 2. Lies. Having your owners say they interviewed 20 people and decided that Luzon was the best man for the job doesn't sit well with me. The longer we just politely accept it the worst it's going to get.
Roland and Katrien are manipulative, greedy, clueless wankers and they need to know that.
I don't like you saying horrid things about Katrien - she smiled at me!
I think the trust sounds a fantastic way of challenging what is going on and, hopefully, bring about a change of behaviour by the club and I think this is the way forward for all who were in anyway unhappy with recent events. Far better than tearing up season tickets you have already paid for!
In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are not a member you are probably not a true supporter.
How do you join and can you join at the next home game?
Afternoon, Mr P. You can join online for sure. Not sure if we have a stall against Rotherham but think so. But we need you now ! :-)
Ha, just trying to drum up a little trade - have got my badge!
Comments
If we had gone into admin I believe a number of local businesses wouldn't have got paid. What might that have done to them?
Who's to say that we wouldn't have been in a sutuation like Rangers where no white knight appeared?
Just because Southampton were picked up by a rich family it doesn't mean other clubs will be too.
Ultimately, admin would have meant league one. League one clubs aren't going to attract "big hitters" in terms of takeovers. We could have been in league one with RD in charge anyway.
just my view
Personally I believe the greatest issue at the moment is that the club are moving without taking their support with them. That may well produce lower attendances which will be to the long term detriment of the club, not just the now. Results will always help attendances but I note we had a good start to the season and our attendances really didn't reflect that.
The Supporters' Trust may not be perfect but I honestly believe it's the best vehicle Charlton supporters have, and the more people that back it the stronger our voice will be. More importantly, it will help ensure the Supporters' Trust understands and can represent the truest supporter view possible. The Trust hasn't given up hope of meaningful dialogue with the club, even though at times the outlook seems bleak in that regard, but the strength of the Supporters' Trust lies in number of supporters being represented and demonstrably being able to present the voice united.
My personal view is that dialogue is more important and would be considerably more fruitful than fan protests, which in my view will serve only to entrench the owner. So much better if we were able to join him and help him along the path he's mapped out, and maybe given the fans of other network clubs a leg up at the same time.
Administration is usually brought about by a demand by HMRC.
Which means EVERYONE pays!
Think we should all take a deep breath and get behind the manager and boys for the rest of the season.
As pointed out, we just scraped past relegation last season and I really can't believe how we have fans who are now demanding play-offs or better?!
RD has pumped more money in to this club than we have had spent on us since the Prem/parachute Champ days.
He laid out something like 2.5m on Vetokele and I wouldn't have thought it was cheap to tempt Henderson, Bikey and also Gudmunsson in, with Gudmunsson coming from a team who have been competing in Europe over the last 4/5 years (in terms of signing bonus and wages, I know they were free signings)
Another thing that is very frustrating is how all the negative posters on here constantly moan about the "network" players that RD has sent over. The most common names you see are Thuram and Nego.. who were here last season. Why are their names still being dragged up when people are laying in to RD?!?!
RD has obviously realised that the standard of player he sent us last season just was not high enough and this year he has arguably sent us some of our best players.
This season out of the "network" we've picked up:
Ben-Haim (arguably our player of the year so far)
Buyens (clearly - for me anyway - a cut above the rest of our central midfielders)
Watt (will be by far our best striker once match fit)
Bulot (can't be overly judged as he's spent most of his time injured)
Tucudean (shows glimpses here and there of real quality.. although ultimately he looks out of his depth and he can be the only real disappointment)
Ultimately, as many have said, RD is a businessman, who wants to make money out of his clubs.. he knows that realistically the only way he will do that with us is by getting us in to the Prem. I have nothing against that at all.
In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are not a member you are probably not a true supporter.
How do you join and can you join at the next home game?
I agree that the reaction on social networks will have probably taken them by surprise (although actually maybe not if they think all football fans are the same after the way the SL supporters react to similar news)
Great to hear the Trust has been in contact with Liege supporters about sussing out tactics that may get through to Roland. We'll be stronger with their input. I do fear that a widespread apathy among our fans (as products of modern football) will make any meaningful supporter movement a challenge to get off the ground - but it will certainly have my support.
Not all of us are unhappy, some of us are only mildly disgruntled.
Doesn't require protests etc yet.
If this decision had us heading for relegation, fair enough but now is a better time to change than feb/march.
How many trust members? Over a thousand?
So going on your theory we have 7,8 thousand people possibly who are not true supporters!
2. Lies. Having your owners say they interviewed 20 people and decided that Luzon was the best man for the job doesn't sit well with me. The longer we just politely accept it the worst it's going to get.
Roland and Katrien are manipulative, greedy, clueless wankers and they need to know that.
Protest ? Don't be bloody soppy
Who is going to listen ? The shareholders ?
Mangina moments being had from various on here
All the fans didn't want Luzon? Not sure about that, I have no opinion on a manager before he has managed the team, I may not be excited but I will certainly be 100% behind them without the whispers of "i told you he was crap" when we might lose a game. I am not going to judge a manager whose previous team I had only barely seen in European competitions on tv. Like I never judged Riga or Peeters, because who knows what they can do before they are up and running with the squad.