Can't play against Cardiff ... I know we want to give the young players a go and I suppport that but these two have struggled and in Pope case costing us points .
Colin were you at Ewood Park yesterday? If so you would have seen Pope pull off 4 top class saves, for the first goal Cousins was as much to blame and for the second one of our defenders let Rhodes in and was as much to blame as Pope.
Thanks Colin - you are actually bang on with your comment this time. I'm gonna be pissed off if I ended up seeing both of these playing again when we go to Ipswich. Fans spending £32 to watch a game deserve to see half decent players & our team atleast have a chance. Holmes Dennis back & Etheridge in please.
Colin were you at Ewood Park yesterday? If so you would have seen Pope pull off 4 top class saves, for the first goal Cousins was as much to blame and for the second one of our defenders let Rhodes in and was as much to blame as Pope.
I am not entirely sure it's a coincidence that Ben Haim and Bikey have looked wobblier since Henderson was injured. Pope is without doubt a great shot stopper, it's just a shame about his catching crosses. And distribution. And organisation. All of which will come with time but until they do, we will lose points.
Fox is clearly doing the best he can, but compared to Wiggins, Solly or even Gomez he's clearly got some distinct limitations, but he keeps persevering and doesn't give up which is commendable.
Personally I am not sure if it's Bob showing faith in them or simply not seeing he has any other choice. If we start on Boxing Day with Solly at LB and/or Etheridge in goal I wouldn't be entirely shocked. (Which is not to say I would applaud the choice but I can certainly see the argument.)
There's a legitimate question in there though on the tough balancing call in giving an inexperienced player game time to settle and improve, or to take them out the firing line.
There's a legitimate question in there though on the tough balancing call in giving an inexperienced player game time to settle and improve, or to take them out the firing line.
Thanks Colin - you are actually bang on with your comment this time. I'm gonna be pissed off if I ended up seeing both of these playing again when we go to Ipswich. Fans spending £32 to watch a game deserve to see half decent players & our team atleast have a chance. Holmes Dennis back & Etheridge in please.
Spot on, OEY.
Let's blood another young gun & an unknown goalie in a very difficult away game.
Why aren't these guys who have not even played half a season at Championship level good enough yet? Oh, answered my own question.
It is so boring seeing players have a few below average games and the calls for them to be dropped, Henderson and Wiggins were in the firing line at the beginning of the season, now everyone realises their importance.
I wouldn't be surprised if Holmes-Dennis will come in, have a couple of poor games and then hear "Put Fox back in".
It is so boring seeing players have a few below average games and the calls for them to be dropped, Henderson and Wiggins were in the firing line at the beginning of the season, now everyone realises their importance.
That's not the problem, it's their potential that's the problem (Pope & Fox that is), anyone with any sort of footballing brain can see the problems they bring the team.. other teams are targeting Pope, and Fox is constantly out of position and putting pressure on the rest of the team, not to mention a couple of his errors.
Wiggins wasn't below average at the start of the season, you want to know why? It was Bob's fault Wiggins wasn't shining I hate to say it, he wasn't allowed to bomb forward like we are so used to seeing him do, so he was very restricted..
And Hendo was very consistent once he got going after a couple games... Pope not so, he's making so many errors that goalkeepers simply can't make. Rolling an underarm ball to JC who's got no support, flapping at balls, poor kicking. He is League One quality at a push.
There's a legitimate question in there though on the tough balancing call in giving an inexperienced player game time to settle and improve, or to take them out the firing line.
Is now the right time for one, both or neither?
Fox for sure needs to be taken out of the team.
And replace with who though, that's the thing.
Since Fox has been brought in, I don't think he's been exposed to bad defensively, it's his ball retention and passing that have let him down, and I think now is probably effecting his confidence. The thing is though that he hasn't had a regulation left winger in front of him to provide an easy outlet the same way our right back has in front of him. Instead of rolling a 10 yarder in to feet and then providing an option, more often than not Fox's ball has been having to try and find our lone and well marked striker, and trying to find someone floating in the whole. Straight away it's a much more difficult ball, so it's no wonder he is conceding possession more.
That being said, personally I think unless he is given a decent foil in front of him, and I'm not sure we've currently got one (possibly Harriott the most likely), I certainly worry that another difficult performance at home and a turning crowd is really going to do him no favours.
According to the SLP Henderson might be back for Xmas . Etheridge has played less first team league games than Pope if you take off his international appearances for the Philippines. So unless Hendo is back I hope we continue with Pope.
Personally I was disappointed when big Bob allowed THD to become Cup tied . Like with Fox , Lennon and Poyet last season , the FA Cup could have been a good place to blood him as a Charlton player. I hope if he did come back some posters might be more sympathetic to him than they have Fox.
Holmes-Dennis is doing very well at Oxford, leave him there. Pope also did very well at York, they would love to have kept him permanently. Until he came into the first team, his greatest strength was taking crosses, so it seems strange that it is now his weakest. I don't think his problem come from his step up to a higher grade, because the situations where he's messed up are situations he would face in L2. Another strength of his was as an organiser, and a very vocal one at that. At a lot of U-21 games I came away thinking that Pope had had an easy game, but eventually I could see that that was because of the positive way he kept on at his defenders. I haven't seen this shouting in the first team, he's come in very much as the junior member of the defense, and as such doesn't have the same confidence. I'd be interested to read whether those who watch the U-21's agree.
The worry is whether Chris Solly is going to be up for playing against Cardiff and Ipswich in such quick succession. We've managed to wrap him in cotton wool in recent weeks but we are going to be left with Gomez/Wilson and Fox at full back for at least one of these games. That is pretty much nailed on.
Given the paucity of our options, we have to get behind these lads. What's the realistic alternative at the moment ? There are no experienced players to step in at left back and in goal.
Holmes-Dennis is doing very well at Oxford, leave him there. Pope also did very well at York, they would love to have kept him permanently. Until he came into the first team, his greatest strength was taking crosses, so it seems strange that it is now his weakest. I don't think his problem come from his step up to a higher grade, because the situations where he's messed up are situations he would face in L2. Another strength of his was as an organiser, and a very vocal one at that. At a lot of U-21 games I came away thinking that Pope had had an easy game, but eventually I could see that that was because of the positive way he kept on at his defenders. I haven't seen this shouting in the first team, he's come in very much as the junior member of the defense, and as such doesn't have the same confidence. I'd be interested to read whether those who watch the U-21's agree.
I agree with you and am gutted at how poor Pope has been this season. Must be a psychological thing that is sadly stopping him translating his U21/York form into the first team. I personally always thought Fox was not up to it. THD is but like KAG maybe by the end of the 2015/16 season.
The Fox and Pope situation is why we have to be careful with a) Putting young players into a struggling team, too soon, and b) Our young players are making mistakes in the first team. Which can have a serious effect on their morale and form. I would rather focus attention on the real problem with the team at the moment.
Too much emphasis has been put on defending. Now that the defence is making a few mistakes the whole thing is falling apart. Bob seems to be like the lad with his finger in a hole of the Dyke. He is finding leaks in all other parts of the dam. The bottom line is there has not been enough investment in the squad. We are seriously lacking a goalscorer in midfield. Vetokele is ploughing a lone furrow upfront with no support. He is not 100 per cent fit and he is taking a battering. Bulot, Tucudean, Pigott, Church, Fox, PP, Reza, Nego, are in my eyes, not good enough for the Championship. With injuries and loss of form of Gudmundsson, Vetokele etc, we are going backwards at a rate of knots. Bob Peeters should also not be exempt from criticism. We started the season playing 4-4-2 with square pegs in square holes. Recently he has messed about with various formations and playing players out of their natural positions. It is not working, yes we have injury problems, but I would like us to revert to 4-4-2 and go at teams from the off. I don't mean gung ho, but let's impose ourselves on teams. Lastly I hope RD sees that Peeters needs some help, which he will provide in the January transfer window.
There's a legitimate question in there though on the tough balancing call in giving an inexperienced player game time to settle and improve, or to take them out the firing line.
Is now the right time for one, both or neither?
Fox for sure needs to be taken out of the team.
And replace with who though, that's the thing.
Since Fox has been brought in, I don't think he's been exposed to bad defensively, it's his ball retention and passing that have let him down, and I think now is probably effecting his confidence. The thing is though that he hasn't had a regulation left winger in front of him to provide an easy outlet the same way our right back has in front of him. Instead of rolling a 10 yarder in to feet and then providing an option, more often than not Fox's ball has been having to try and find our lone and well marked striker, and trying to find someone floating in the whole. Straight away it's a much more difficult ball, so it's no wonder he is conceding possession more.
That being said, personally I think unless he is given a decent foil in front of him, and I'm not sure we've currently got one (possibly Harriott the most likely), I certainly worry that another difficult performance at home and a turning crowd is really going to do him no favours.
I don't want to be to hard in the lad. He's young learning his trade etc, etc. he is one that could have done with a good 6 months out in loan.
But in answer to replacing him with who? Solly if needs be.
Thanks Colin - you are actually bang on with your comment this time. I'm gonna be pissed off if I ended up seeing both of these playing again when we go to Ipswich. Fans spending £32 to watch a game deserve to see half decent players & our team atleast have a chance. Holmes Dennis back & Etheridge in please.
Spot on, OEY.
Let's blood another young gun & an unknown goalie in a very difficult away game.
Are you Mick Mac in disguise ?
:-)
I'm pretty sure Mick Mac will be hoping they both will be playing following Fox's assist the last time we played Ipswich & scouting reports he would have received on Pope.
The reality is it would be very hard for the 2 names I mentioned to be any worse than those playing now. I genuienly don't think our team believe they have a chance when both of these players are in the team and are so low on confidence. If Big bob is such a superstar with youngsters then he should take them out of the spotlight for a bit & let them rebuild their confidence on loan elsewhere or in front of smaller reserve crowds.
We have known for 2 seasons now that we can't score goals but we got by at the start of the season because we were so hard to beat. Now we can't defend or score it is a matter of time before we're dragged into the relegation mix unless he changes things.
Are we destroying players by playing them too young? I think Pigott has been ruined by being played too young. These players should do a few full season loans in the lower leagues. Then at 22 be trying to break into the first team.
We are currently in the classic position of a club that has a small squad. All hunky dory when everyone is fit and in form but as soon as the coach needs to shuffle the pack the lack of quality in depth is cruelly exposed.
We have good players in most positions but it's hard to expect those key players to perform at the top of their game over the course of a season. That's when a manager needs to use the squad.
I feel for Bob because it's obvious for everyone to see he's playing with a very limited hand. If we get in a couple of decent quality players in January and get our injured players back I think we will see a big difference in form and results.
I also think we might have to get used to seasons like this for quite a while. Balancing the books and improving the squad is going to be a very up and down process.
Are we destroying players by playing them too young? I think Pigott has been ruined by being played too young. These players should do a few full season loans in the lower leagues. Then at 22 be trying to break into the first team.
I just don't think at this stage they are good enough. Pope may end up being a championship keeper but might have to go down the leagues to come back up.
Comments
Lose a Game and all of a sudden he's at fault. And shouldn't be in team Tbh been dodgy lately for me
Fox is clearly doing the best he can, but compared to Wiggins, Solly or even Gomez he's clearly got some distinct limitations, but he keeps persevering and doesn't give up which is commendable.
Personally I am not sure if it's Bob showing faith in them or simply not seeing he has any other choice. If we start on Boxing Day with Solly at LB and/or Etheridge in goal I wouldn't be entirely shocked. (Which is not to say I would applaud the choice but I can certainly see the argument.)
No Jackson to blame (Colin stum on how much he is missed of course).
But fear not there are other players to take the can.
Is now the right time for one, both or neither?
Let's blood another young gun & an unknown goalie in a very difficult away game.
Are you Mick Mac in disguise ?
:-)
It is so boring seeing players have a few below average games and the calls for them to be dropped, Henderson and Wiggins were in the firing line at the beginning of the season, now everyone realises their importance.
I wouldn't be surprised if Holmes-Dennis will come in, have a couple of poor games and then hear "Put Fox back in".
Wiggins wasn't below average at the start of the season, you want to know why? It was Bob's fault Wiggins wasn't shining I hate to say it, he wasn't allowed to bomb forward like we are so used to seeing him do, so he was very restricted..
And Hendo was very consistent once he got going after a couple games... Pope not so, he's making so many errors that goalkeepers simply can't make. Rolling an underarm ball to JC who's got no support, flapping at balls, poor kicking. He is League One quality at a push.
Since Fox has been brought in, I don't think he's been exposed to bad defensively, it's his ball retention and passing that have let him down, and I think now is probably effecting his confidence. The thing is though that he hasn't had a regulation left winger in front of him to provide an easy outlet the same way our right back has in front of him. Instead of rolling a 10 yarder in to feet and then providing an option, more often than not Fox's ball has been having to try and find our lone and well marked striker, and trying to find someone floating in the whole. Straight away it's a much more difficult ball, so it's no wonder he is conceding possession more.
That being said, personally I think unless he is given a decent foil in front of him, and I'm not sure we've currently got one (possibly Harriott the most likely), I certainly worry that another difficult performance at home and a turning crowd is really going to do him no favours.
Personally I was disappointed when big Bob allowed THD to become Cup tied . Like with Fox , Lennon and Poyet last season , the FA Cup could have been a good place to blood him as a Charlton player. I hope if he did come back some posters might be more sympathetic to him than they have Fox.
Pope also did very well at York, they would love to have kept him permanently. Until he came into the first team, his greatest strength was taking crosses, so it seems strange that it is now his weakest. I don't think his problem come from his step up to a higher grade, because the situations where he's messed up are situations he would face in L2. Another strength of his was as an organiser, and a very vocal one at that. At a lot of U-21 games I came away thinking that Pope had had an easy game, but eventually I could see that that was because of the positive way he kept on at his defenders. I haven't seen this shouting in the first team, he's come in very much as the junior member of the defense, and as such doesn't have the same confidence. I'd be interested to read whether those who watch the U-21's agree.
I would rather focus attention on the real problem with the team at the moment.
Too much emphasis has been put on defending. Now that the defence is making a few mistakes the whole thing is falling apart. Bob seems to be like the lad with his finger in a hole of the Dyke. He is finding leaks in all other parts of the dam.
The bottom line is there has not been enough investment in the squad. We are seriously lacking a goalscorer in midfield. Vetokele is ploughing a lone furrow upfront with no support. He is not 100 per cent fit and he is taking a battering. Bulot, Tucudean, Pigott, Church, Fox, PP, Reza, Nego, are in my eyes, not good enough for the Championship.
With injuries and loss of form of Gudmundsson, Vetokele etc, we are going backwards at a rate of knots.
Bob Peeters should also not be exempt from criticism. We started the season playing 4-4-2 with square pegs in square holes. Recently he has messed about with various formations and playing players out of their natural positions. It is not working, yes we have injury problems, but I would like us to revert to 4-4-2 and go at teams from the off.
I don't mean gung ho, but let's impose ourselves on teams.
Lastly I hope RD sees that Peeters needs some help, which he will provide in the January transfer window.
But in answer to replacing him with who? Solly if needs be.
The reality is it would be very hard for the 2 names I mentioned to be any worse than those playing now. I genuienly don't think our team believe they have a chance when both of these players are in the team and are so low on confidence. If Big bob is such a superstar with youngsters then he should take them out of the spotlight for a bit & let them rebuild their confidence on loan elsewhere or in front of smaller reserve crowds.
We have known for 2 seasons now that we can't score goals but we got by at the start of the season because we were so hard to beat. Now we can't defend or score it is a matter of time before we're dragged into the relegation mix unless he changes things.
We have good players in most positions but it's hard to expect those key players to perform at the top of their game over the course of a season. That's when a manager needs to use the squad.
I feel for Bob because it's obvious for everyone to see he's playing with a very limited hand. If we get in a couple of decent quality players in January and get our injured players back I think we will see a big difference in form and results.
I also think we might have to get used to seasons like this for quite a while. Balancing the books and improving the squad is going to be a very up and down process.
Interesting times.