Out of interest how long does a player get to impress? Cousins and Poyet came in last year and were pretty consistent from the word go. Solly as well a few seasons before. I understand these three are better players then Fox but do you give him 20 games, 30?
Sods law for Fox, the weak clearance fell to a fresh sub who hadn't scored for 2 years, who just hit the ball in hope and the ball placed itself in the side netting near post perfect.
If that had not gone in, most would be saying it was daft TBH striding out the back line and that would be the focus imo and not as much the clearance. But it did go in, and now Fox knows he had a part to play in a goal which made us miss out on a deserved point. As 'crap' as people may say his performance was, Fox will be hurting from that goal more than most.
Confidence is the key for any footballer, if you are confident then you are flying and it seems nothing can go wrong. If you are on the wrong end of decisions or luck, then it seems nothing can go right and you can't perform to your best as you are waiting for the worst to happen and to disappoint everyone. This is especially the case for defenders, a mistake can lead to a goal.
A kid is going to make mistakes at this level, they are going to learn the hard way, they aren't all going to be a Solly or Jenks.
Should a player be protected from their mistakes because they are from our academy? There has to be an understanding, because no player wants to make a mistake they are not doing it on purpose, especially an inexperienced youth product. They are learning about the senior game. They should also be learning that when times are tough and they aren't getting the run of the green that the Valley faithful will be there to try and pick them up.
I saw him make his debut (I think) at Sheff Weds in the cup last year and was raving about him. He had a really solid game and didn't look out of place in the starting eleven.
I think that was Lennon at Sheff Weds away, or Hudds away?
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
I saw him make his debut (I think) at Sheff Weds in the cup last year and was raving about him. He had a really solid game and didn't look out of place in the starting eleven.
I think that was Lennon at Sheff Weds away, or Hudds away?
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
Out of interest how long does a player get to impress? Cousins and Poyet came in last year and were pretty consistent from the word go. Solly as well a few seasons before. I understand these three are better players then Fox but do you give him 20 games, 30?
This is a huge generalisation but I tend to think that defensive players learn their trade whilst attacking players rely on natural instinct. The extremes of these positions are strikers – who can often come into a side very young but often will hang up their boots or convert to a different type of player before defenders have – and goalkeepers, who it is generally held wont become first choice players until a few years after their outfield counterparts and can continue for a long time. I think this also explains why we have every right to be so disappointed that TBH, a defensive player who has learned his trade at the highest level, let us down so badly on Saturday and should show some sympathy towards a young defender who made a mistake.
As to how long we give a player – for me that depends on two questions, a) is the player improving and learning from his mistakes ? and, b) is he improving quick enough for us to believe that he’ll be “ready” within an acceptable timeframe ?
If the answer to either of those is “no” then we shouldn’t consider developing him any more – I’m not sure I can make that call with Fox yet, and certainly not off the back of one game/mistake.
Fox is what used to be called when I was young the reserve left back.
There is a reason he is the reserve left back rather than the first choice first team left back.
In that context he has done an adequate job filling in whilst Wiggins is injured. The clearance wasn't great but neither was Bulot's act in putting the ball out for the initial corner which led to the goal. It's a team game so, as Jacko so rightly implied, they win and lose together.
Fox is not Chris Powell, Mark Reid or Seth Plum and probably never will be but he is a reserve left back and should be judged as such.
I saw him make his debut (I think) at Sheff Weds in the cup last year and was raving about him. He had a really solid game and didn't look out of place in the starting eleven.
I think that was Lennon at Sheff Weds away, or Hudds away?
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
It all got very complicated at left back about 11 months ago .. V Hudds in the cup .. Evina was selected and was a total write off, Lennon came on as sub .. next v Doncaster where we were stuffed 3-0, both Evina and Lennon started .. next v Wigan, Wiggins was back, injured early on and was replaced by Lennon, no sign of Evina .. we lost .. next v Brum we lost with Evina at left back .. next v QPR, Wiggins was back and we won 1-0 .. next v Owls in the cup, no Wiggins, Evina or Lennon, Fox played at left back .. we won .. then v Foxes and Blades (cup). Wiggins was back .. I recall that the situation above was as a result of injury and indecision on Powell's part as to who to play at left back
I think I am developing the same opinion about Fox as I did Grant Basey. Good lad and a decent defender but definitely lacks pace and that could be a real handicap against the more lively wingers, mind you I have seen Wiggens skinned enough times this season! For me the key job for a full back is defending after that the rest is a bonus but certainly Morgon doesn't offer so much going forward.
Jurys out but I for one hope he develops into a better player.
Apart from his last-minute blunder on Saturday, Fox got turned by the Fulham player who crossed for Parker to score at the Cottage. I noted in the first half against Ipswich he was set free on the left, yet was caught by a defender with more pace.
There's a slight awkwardness about Fox that evokes poor old Peter Shaw. He's part of a generally solid defence (Bikey was magnificent again on Saturday) and will learn and improve from his experiences.
Apart from his last-minute blunder on Saturday, Fox got turned by the Fulham player who crossed for Parker to score at the Cottage. I noted in the first half against Ipswich he was set free on the left, yet was caught by a defender with more pace.
There's a slight awkwardness about Fox that evokes poor old Peter Shaw. He's part of a generally solid defence (Bikey was magnificent again on Saturday) and will learn and improve from his experiences.
interesting you say Bikey was magnificient because he made a couple of errors but got away with it and he's remembered because of a great tackle on Sammon saving a possible goal but overall he was far from magnificent
From what I saw at the match and then again on the TV, he didn't so much attempt a clearance, rather than the ball came at him and he instinctively kicked it away - am really not sure he had time to react and 'get it in to row Z' as a lot of people have been saying...he was just unlucky as far as I'm concerned... What concerned me more about him (and Solly and JGM in particular) on Saturday was the 'dithering' when going forward...at many points in the game, an attack down either flank broke down when the ball was with one of the three of them and, rather than looking to quickly play it in to the front two (who were calling for it), or whip a cross in to the box, they'd stop and play it back, thus losing the momentum and allowing Ipswich to regroup...
For what it's worth, I really enjoyed Saturday: it was a cracking day in the sun; the pitch and the ground looked fantastic; I caught up with friends; Charlton played some of the most attacking football I have seen in recent years and then I went home and had a beer. Maybe it's my age, but a lost point (or three) isn't going to ruin any of that...
14 full appearances for Charlton and age 21. I hope some on here weren't judged as harshly at age 21, after being in their 1st job for 3 weeks.
A job that he's been doing for most of his life at a junior level, and has been training day in day out for... You'd think people were protecting their baby the way they are bubble-wrapping Fox. He's 21, he's a full grown man and he's had 21 professional appearances... that's half a season of games..
And to put that in Context, Diego Poyet is 2 years younger and has played out just 3 more professional apps. Let alone players like Raheem Sterling with his amount of apps at 19y.o.. Morgan's 21 not 16.
Forums are for opinions, and mine amongst others is that he's out of his depth in the Championship, we are not out to try end the guys career.
From what I saw at the match and then again on the TV, he didn't so much attempt a clearance, rather than the ball came at him and he instinctively kicked it away - am really not sure he had time to react and 'get it in to row Z' as a lot of people have been saying...he was just unlucky as far as I'm concerned... What concerned me more about him (and Solly and JGM in particular) on Saturday was the 'dithering' when going forward...at many points in the game, an attack down either flank broke down when the ball was with one of the three of them and, rather than looking to quickly play it in to the front two (who were calling for it), or whip a cross in to the box, they'd stop and play it back, thus losing the momentum and allowing Ipswich to regroup...
For what it's worth, I really enjoyed Saturday: it was a cracking day in the sun; the pitch and the ground looked fantastic; I caught up with friends; Charlton played some of the most attacking football I have seen in recent years and then I went home and had a beer. Maybe it's my age, but a lost point (or three) isn't going to ruin any of that...
Spot on.
It really wasn't that much of an error at all. Didn't have a lot of time to react.
The concerns are more related to his all round play.
14 full appearances for Charlton and age 21. I hope some on here weren't judged as harshly at age 21, after being in their 1st job for 3 weeks.
A job that he's been doing for most of his life at a junior level, and has been training day in day out for... You'd think people were protecting their baby the way they are bubble-wrapping Fox. He's 21, he's a full grown man and he's had 21 professional appearances... that's half a season of games..
not like there was a report done into youth coaching and young english players saying they are judged too harshly and too early...
14 full appearances for Charlton and age 21. I hope some on here weren't judged as harshly at age 21, after being in their 1st job for 3 weeks.
A job that he's been doing for most of his life at a junior level, and has been training day in day out for... You'd think people were protecting their baby the way they are bubble-wrapping Fox. He's 21, he's a full grown man and he's had 21 professional appearances... that's half a season of games..
not like there was a report done into youth coaching and young english players saying they are judged too harshly and too early...
oh wait.
I'm a fan, not a professional youth coach. They are doing their job poorly.. what's your point?
14 full appearances for Charlton and age 21. I hope some on here weren't judged as harshly at age 21, after being in their 1st job for 3 weeks.
A job that he's been doing for most of his life at a junior level, and has been training day in day out for... You'd think people were protecting their baby the way they are bubble-wrapping Fox. He's 21, he's a full grown man and he's had 21 professional appearances... that's half a season of games..
not like there was a report done into youth coaching and young english players saying they are judged too harshly and too early...
oh wait.
Yeah yeah, another case of bubble wrapping young men, Mike Tyson was World Heavy Champion by the time he was 21. He was smashing the crap out of blokes 10 years older than him.
It was a last minute losing goal, of course the criticism was going to be out of proportion, same as the over reactions to said criticism on this thread
I'm not even too bothered about that clearance, it was poor but looked like an instinct kick. I see flaws in his whole game, he literally needs another player to keep within spitting distance of him to cover any of his mishaps or when he's out of position. He's also not very fit for a 21 year old professional sportsman, last 10-15 he looks like he's running on empty and his heads gone. For the people who really like Foxy, may I ask why? What attributes does he bring to the team? I'm intrigued, I've gave him his shot and don't like him
Comments
Cousins and Poyet came in last year and were pretty consistent from the word go. Solly as well a few seasons before. I understand these three are better players then Fox but do you give him 20 games, 30?
If that had not gone in, most would be saying it was daft TBH striding out the back line and that would be the focus imo and not as much the clearance. But it did go in, and now Fox knows he had a part to play in a goal which made us miss out on a deserved point. As 'crap' as people may say his performance was, Fox will be hurting from that goal more than most.
Confidence is the key for any footballer, if you are confident then you are flying and it seems nothing can go wrong. If you are on the wrong end of decisions or luck, then it seems nothing can go right and you can't perform to your best as you are waiting for the worst to happen and to disappoint everyone. This is especially the case for defenders, a mistake can lead to a goal.
A kid is going to make mistakes at this level, they are going to learn the hard way, they aren't all going to be a Solly or Jenks.
Should a player be protected from their mistakes because they are from our academy? There has to be an understanding, because no player wants to make a mistake they are not doing it on purpose, especially an inexperienced youth product. They are learning about the senior game. They should also be learning that when times are tough and they aren't getting the run of the green that the Valley faithful will be there to try and pick them up.
I saw him make his debut (I think) at Sheff Weds in the cup last year and was raving about him. He had a really solid game and didn't look out of place in the starting eleven.
I think that was Lennon at Sheff Weds away, or Hudds away?
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
It was Fox at Hillsborough.
As to how long we give a player – for me that depends on two questions, a) is the player improving and learning from his mistakes ? and, b) is he improving quick enough for us to believe that he’ll be “ready” within an acceptable timeframe ?
If the answer to either of those is “no” then we shouldn’t consider developing him any more – I’m not sure I can make that call with Fox yet, and certainly not off the back of one game/mistake.
There is a reason he is the reserve left back rather than the first choice first team left back.
In that context he has done an adequate job filling in whilst Wiggins is injured. The clearance wasn't great but neither was Bulot's act in putting the ball out for the initial corner which led to the goal. It's a team game so, as Jacko so rightly implied, they win and lose together.
Fox is not Chris Powell, Mark Reid or Seth Plum and probably never will be but he is a reserve left back and should be judged as such.
I don't think he's getting 'protection', just over-reaction given that players like Vetokele and Gudmunnson made far more mistakes and poor decisions!
It all got very complicated at left back about 11 months ago .. V Hudds in the cup .. Evina was selected and was a total write off, Lennon came on as sub .. next v Doncaster where we were stuffed 3-0, both Evina and Lennon started .. next v Wigan, Wiggins was back, injured early on and was replaced by Lennon, no sign of Evina .. we lost .. next v Brum we lost with Evina at left back .. next v QPR, Wiggins was back and we won 1-0 .. next v Owls in the cup, no Wiggins, Evina or Lennon, Fox played at left back .. we won .. then v Foxes and Blades (cup). Wiggins was back .. I recall that the situation above was as a result of injury and indecision on Powell's part as to who to play at left back
Jurys out but I for one hope he develops into a better player.
There's a slight awkwardness about Fox that evokes poor old Peter Shaw. He's part of a generally solid defence (Bikey was magnificent again on Saturday) and will learn and improve from his experiences.
Just cos he's from the academy doesn't mean he can't be criticised for being poor.
Championship player, and the fact he's still there at his peak age proves it.
I hope some on here weren't judged as harshly at age 21, after being in their 1st job for 3 weeks.
For what it's worth, I really enjoyed Saturday: it was a cracking day in the sun; the pitch and the ground looked fantastic; I caught up with friends; Charlton played some of the most attacking football I have seen in recent years and then I went home and had a beer. Maybe it's my age, but a lost point (or three) isn't going to ruin any of that...
Forums are for opinions, and mine amongst others is that he's out of his depth in the Championship, we are not out to try end the guys career.
It really wasn't that much of an error at all. Didn't have a lot of time to react.
The concerns are more related to his all round play.
oh wait.
If he did it in the fifth minute and we turned the game around then this criticism would be 5% what it is now.
That said, wasn't his best performance, seen him play much better,