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Is this What we Wish for.....

east terrace peanutseast terrace peanuts
in General Charlton
Just seen the picture on BBC with Ryan Giggs and Van Gaal looking absolutely miserable with the headline £100 million plus needed to get title......Do we really want to be part of that scene? So what are we hoping to achieve over the next few years? Priced out of season tickets, prima donna, often over hyped players, who can't get a game for Monaco, games kicking off all hours over the weekend. I'm pretty sure that the Delort saga is a very minor example of what we could have fallen for .......on the basis of a few videos and some dodgy agents. I am really wondering whether life gets much better in the Premiership. Didn't some of us get a bit so/so after our few years of Premiership life?

For me I don't want to lose what the Valley and Charlton do for me at the moment and generally over the many years of supporting them. In that vein I look forward to the trip down to Bournemouth in a way that in a few years time I doubt I would be tempted by the same to Old Trafford/Etihad etc........
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Comments

  • east terrace peanutseast terrace peanuts
    .....
    Henry Irving said:

    or imagine if the result on Saturday was

    Charlton Athletic 5 Man Utd 3

    or even

    Everton 2 Charlton Athletic 3

    There are many things wrong with the premier league but I would rather deal with those on the inside than have to stand outside with our nose pressed against the window watching other teams no bigger than us enjoy the money and occasional success

    There is something about the current values of money and success......I am not sure I am that interested in pressing my nose against that kind of window......or maybe just to watch the PL self destruct when Sky et al take their money elsewhere....
  • GranpaGranpa
    This is why I am becoming a fan of the new owner. He quite obviously is a business man with a clear plan which was well explained by Katrien in a recent interview. I agree that the varying game starting times for the sake of television is a pain, but it's hard to beat the pleasure of watching some of the World's best players in a sold out Stadium, and being part of the resultant atmosphere. Yes please, I want to be there.
  • GranpaGranpa
    I should have added that it would also be nice to open my newspaper and actually see a mention of Charlton.
  • ross1ross1
    Granpa said:

    I should have added that it would also be nice to open my newspaper and actually see a mention of Charlton.

    "WHO"
  • soapy_jonessoapy_jones
    Seems so far off now does it not? Speaking personally I watched some great football in the Premiership, a fair proportion of it played by us but by the end I was fed up with the Valley experience and finding it difficult to give away my two season tickets as I found other things to do late on a Saturday or a Monday night. That said, it was a highlight of my Charlton supporting "career". Not as good as being a teenage herbert ground hopping in the late 70's and early 80's mind.
  • GretnaGreenAddickGretnaGreenAddick
    edited September 2014
    I could quite happily see the Premier League break away but as long as it is the top tier of English football, i can't not want to see our club in it.
  • Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    east terrace peanuts said:

    .....

    Henry Irving said:

    or imagine if the result on Saturday was

    Charlton Athletic 5 Man Utd 3

    or even

    Everton 2 Charlton Athletic 3

    There are many things wrong with the premier league but I would rather deal with those on the inside than have to stand outside with our nose pressed against the window watching other teams no bigger than us enjoy the money and occasional success

    There is something about the current values of money and success......I am not sure I am that interested in pressing my nose against that kind of window......or maybe just to watch the PL self destruct when Sky et al take their money elsewhere....
    But you are reading about the Prem and then commenting on here about it. So you are, to use my phrase, pressing your nose against that window already.

    People have been saying that the Prem will collapse and that Sky et al will take their money away but for over 20 years it has continued to get richer and stronger and Sky and now BT throw more money at it. I don't see it going away anytime soon so IMHO we either get there or let those clubs that do mover further and further away from us.
  • MrLargoMrLargo
    Granpa said:

    it's hard to beat the pleasure of watching some of the World's best players in a sold out Stadium, and being part of the resultant atmosphere. Yes please, I want to be there.

    I thought our years in the Premier League absolutely killed the atmosphere at The Valley. From my recollection, the games against the likes of Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea tended to be particularly quiet in the latter years. It was ok when we first went up, and the team used to go out all guns blazing and we'd nick or a draw here and there. I found it pretty boring though, watching the big clubs turn up and beat us 3 or 4 nil without breaking sweat.

    That's not to say I don't want to get promoted - I'd rather be in the Prem than the Championship without a doubt. But once the novelty of visiting Old Trafford and the Emirates wears off, it's difficult to get too enthusiastic about another season of battling relegation or maybe trying to finish 9th if we're having a really good season. Look at Southampton - doing absolutely superbly, playing good football, producing young talent. Nothing to show for it though, they have already reached the ceiling.

    Money has absolutely ruined football.
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  • kentaddickkentaddick
    yo-yoing between the championship and prem all whilst maintaining a healthy production line of academy players and building state of the art facilities for them would definitely do for me.
  • GreenieGreenie
    I just want to be in a league we can compete in, at the moment its the Champ. I dont want us to go to the prem to make up the numbers.
  • seriously_redseriously_red
    kentaddick said:

    yo-yoing between the championship and prem all whilst maintaining a healthy production line of academy players and building state of the art facilities for them would definitely do for me.

    The only trouble with the Premier League is when a club "mortgages" future revenue to avoid the drop. With this new network we are perfectly positioned to borrow and lend out players to other clubs depending upon our needs and challenges.
    The other downside is when a club rises and bigger clubs pick off top players and even the coach...
    But the quality of the football in a packed house makes it all worthwhile.
    It will be exciting this season to get a sniff of the play-offs or we may fade but, as per another thread, our squad is getting younger and is the youngest in the Championship. As long as the right deals are done in the next two windows it seems likely that wherever we finish this season will be bettered in 2015-16.
    Our academy was never that great at premier league level but there is a clear plan to improve on that. And this will make CAFC even less dependent on agents and 30 something "stars" looking for a pay day.
    We don't know if Peeters, Vetokele, Buyens etc will make the whole journey with us but it is very clear to me that the club is going in the right direction...win,lose or draw vs Boro and Norwich, every game and player is surely being analysed to see what it takes to get us to the next level.

  • ashleyashley
    Henry Irving said:

    or imagine if the result on Saturday was

    Charlton Athletic 5 Man Utd 3

    or even

    Everton 2 Charlton Athletic 3

    There are many things wrong with the premier league but I would rather deal with those on the inside than have to stand outside with our nose pressed against the window watching other teams no bigger than us enjoy the money and occasional success

    absolutely right

    but how could you possibly forget Tottenham Hotspur 0 Charlton Athletic 1 as a result predicated on the same line of reasoning applied to this weekend's PL results?.

    quite how much Spurs have spunked away on crap signings and endless managerial changes over the years since they played in black and white tv footage relative to what they have won is absolutely diabolical .

    not as appalling however as having to constantly year after year indulge their delusional fans' laughable big club utter bollox mentality .

    that is as symptomatic of what a comedy PL football is as the results that you refer to .
  • cabblescabbles
    Greenie said:

    I just want to be in a league we can compete in, at the moment its the Champ. I dont want us to go to the prem to make up the numbers.

    I was lucky enough to experience the Prem years and was very grateful for every one of them, even the relegation season. I will say however, that the season we won the league one title was immense. It's not often you see your team win 31 out of 46 games in a season. 31 out of 46. That's going to work most Monday's happy. Expecting to beat teams and score goals in the process. Very few Saturday nights getting home in a mood and facing the despairing 6-10pm TV shite if you are staying in before MOTD and the FLS.

    I can see it both ways. When we got those massive wins in the Prem against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool etc, you were buzzing. However, I also remember going up to Newcastle away, I think it was when Shearer got his record breaking goal of some sort and we lost 3-0. I remember thinking on the way up that, we're not going to get anything here, they are a better team, our form wasn't great. The early buzz of playing in the Prem had worn off etc.

    There was also a period where any away game in the north west was a guaranteed defeat.

    I would take promotion back up there in a heartbeat, as it means we would have a great season. I also think our absence has been long enough that there are new players you would love to see live etc.

    But I can understand both camps' point of view in operating in a league where you compete, as opposed to making up the numbers in the Prem and vice versa.

    I'm just grateful we're not making up the numbers in League One like we were the season Powell took over............
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    You look at the Leicester squad that beat Man U, and that's how I would want to do it if we go up, as they've kept a nucleus of their promotion team, with people like Andy King who've been there for years, solid pros like Wes Morgan and Nugent, hungry non leaguers like Vardy, plus decent signings like Ulloa and Cambiasso. They remind me of us in 2000.
  • east terrace peanutseast terrace peanuts
    cabbles said:

    Greenie said:

    I just want to be in a league we can compete in, at the moment its the Champ. I dont want us to go to the prem to make up the numbers.

    I was lucky enough to experience the Prem years and was very grateful for every one of them, even the relegation season. I will say however, that the season we won the league one title was immense. It's not often you see your team win 31 out of 46 games in a season. 31 out of 46. That's going to work most Monday's happy. Expecting to beat teams and score goals in the process. Very few Saturday nights getting home in a mood and facing the despairing 6-10pm TV shite if you are staying in before MOTD and the FLS.

    I can see it both ways. When we got those massive wins in the Prem against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool etc, you were buzzing. However, I also remember going up to Newcastle away, I think it was when Shearer got his record breaking goal of some sort and we lost 3-0. I remember thinking on the way up that, we're not going to get anything here, they are a better team, our form wasn't great. The early buzz of playing in the Prem had worn off etc.

    There was also a period where any away game in the north west was a guaranteed defeat.

    I would take promotion back up there in a heartbeat, as it means we would have a great season. I also think our absence has been long enough that there are new players you would love to see live etc.

    But I can understand both camps' point of view in operating in a league where you compete, as opposed to making up the numbers in the Prem and vice versa.

    I'm just grateful we're not making up the numbers in League One like we were the season Powell took over............
    This and others.....great chat. What I am also sharing in this is a sense of moral bankruptcy somewhere (I'm thinking aloud) when such huge amounts of money are being considered and that the measure of success is linked to the that a Hollywood style illusion...Yes it would be fantastic to have a season when we won the league one title, but then again how much do I want to join a club that wants me as a member (thank you Groucho).
  • MrLargoMrLargo
    PragueAddick said:

    We should aim to get up there of course, and then we should be joining the campaign to make the FAPL more equitable . RD will be one of the 20. He won't be able to bang sense into them all, any more successfully than RM tried and failed to do so when he was at the top table. But in those days there was no Supporters Trust, nor Supporters Direct to work separately as outliers on the campaign.

    The way to make the FAPL more enjoyable is to abolish it as a separate entity, and return it to the service of English football generally. There will still be plenty of money to go round but it won't mean oblivion if we get relegated again, and we might eventually see a new crop of English players (some from Charlton) to rebuild pride in our national team.

    Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment, it's not going to happen is it. There's very few clubs in the Premier league who give a monkey's about what's going on outside of it. The whole structure is set up to protect their wealth, with the big clubs (Man U, Chelsea, etc) passing enough cash down to the smaller clubs (Stoke, Southampton, etc) to make them equally greedy. Phil Gartside, the Bolton Chairman, was one of the most prominent supporters of Premier League 2, a second 18 team division that would have either minimal or no relegation/promotion system with the Football League. Look at the Elite Player Performance Plan, a structure designed by Premier League clubs to enable them to pick up any remotely talented youngster for peanuts.

    It's all about self-protection, and there'll be no appetite to make any changes to improve it as a competition until and unless the TV money dries up.
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  • ValleyGaryValleyGary
    Never understood the mentality of not wanting to be part of the highest regions of football for our club. The Championship is great at times, but the Prem is something else for a club like ours.
  • kings hill addickkings hill addick
    MrLargo said:

    PragueAddick said:

    We should aim to get up there of course, and then we should be joining the campaign to make the FAPL more equitable . RD will be one of the 20. He won't be able to bang sense into them all, any more successfully than RM tried and failed to do so when he was at the top table. But in those days there was no Supporters Trust, nor Supporters Direct to work separately as outliers on the campaign.

    The way to make the FAPL more enjoyable is to abolish it as a separate entity, and return it to the service of English football generally. There will still be plenty of money to go round but it won't mean oblivion if we get relegated again, and we might eventually see a new crop of English players (some from Charlton) to rebuild pride in our national team.

    Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment, it's not going to happen is it. There's very few clubs in the Premier league who give a monkey's about what's going on outside of it. The whole structure is set up to protect their wealth, with the big clubs (Man U, Chelsea, etc) passing enough cash down to the smaller clubs (Stoke, Southampton, etc) to make them equally greedy. Phil Gartside, the Bolton Chairman, was one of the most prominent supporters of Premier League 2, a second 18 team division that would have either minimal or no relegation/promotion system with the Football League. Look at the Elite Player Performance Plan, a structure designed by Premier League clubs to enable them to pick up any remotely talented youngster for peanuts.

    It's all about self-protection, and there'll be no appetite to make any changes to improve it as a competition until and unless the TV money dries up.
    It's interesting, however, that Gartside was not very outspoken about the Premier 2 until Bolton ran up massive debts and could see the writing on the wall. All clubs are only interested in themselves and tend to be keen on keeping all the money in the Premier League until it occurs to them that they could fall out. Then they are trying to convince the clubs that doin't fear relegation, and that is a hard sell.
  • AlgarveaddickAlgarveaddick
    MrLargo said:

    PragueAddick said:

    We should aim to get up there of course, and then we should be joining the campaign to make the FAPL more equitable . RD will be one of the 20. He won't be able to bang sense into them all, any more successfully than RM tried and failed to do so when he was at the top table. But in those days there was no Supporters Trust, nor Supporters Direct to work separately as outliers on the campaign.

    The way to make the FAPL more enjoyable is to abolish it as a separate entity, and return it to the service of English football generally. There will still be plenty of money to go round but it won't mean oblivion if we get relegated again, and we might eventually see a new crop of English players (some from Charlton) to rebuild pride in our national team.

    Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment, it's not going to happen is it. There's very few clubs in the Premier league who give a monkey's about what's going on outside of it. The whole structure is set up to protect their wealth, with the big clubs (Man U, Chelsea, etc) passing enough cash down to the smaller clubs (Stoke, Southampton, etc) to make them equally greedy. Phil Gartside, the Bolton Chairman, was one of the most prominent supporters of Premier League 2, a second 18 team division that would have either minimal or no relegation/promotion system with the Football League. Look at the Elite Player Performance Plan, a structure designed by Premier League clubs to enable them to pick up any remotely talented youngster for peanuts.

    It's all about self-protection, and there'll be no appetite to make any changes to improve it as a competition until and unless the TV money dries up.
    Everything can be changed. But I fear you are correct and it will be some time...

    It doesn't help when supporters of clubs like ours allow their offspring to follow the greedy Sky four ( and a half ).
  • FiiiiiishFiiiiiish
    All of us who suffered on the spiral down after the last prem relegation deserve another stay at the top division. Especially those of us who have continued to buy season tickets and open ourselves up to the wonders of the Docs and Abbotts of the footballing world.
  • kentaddickkentaddick
    killerandflash said:

    You look at the Leicester squad that beat Man U, and that's how I would want to do it if we go up, as they've kept a nucleus of their promotion team, with people like Andy King who've been there for years, solid pros like Wes Morgan and Nugent, hungry non leaguers like Vardy, plus decent signings like Ulloa and Cambiasso. They remind me of us in 2000.

    if big tony and slippery slater had kept the money man happy that's exactly how we would've gone up with powell.
  • Saga LoutSaga Lout
    edited September 2014
    cafctom said:

    Don't really understand the term "enjoying the money". I find it strange when the Playoff Final happens and there are fans getting excited about "£150 million", as if it is actually THEIR money, which its not.

    Its the same when we are looking to sell talented players and people say things like "I'd bite their hands off for 3 million for this player".

    It seems as though fans are just becoming interested in numbers, or are at least putting the perception across that they are.

    I'd much rather see Charlton youth players and stalwarts in our side, with the same old Charlton values off the pitch (Football for a Fiver, family club, local tradition etc) than become a brand of the evermore cringeworthy Premier League which is starting to become a parody of itself.

    Yes I would be over the moon to see us promoted, but I'm never going to be getting all jazzed up about balance sheets. I can do that at work ffs.

    I see what you are saying, but what the 150 mil would mean for me is that we might actually have the funds to buy a couple of exciting players when we get into the premiership - then we get to see them in our shirts week in week out, rather than watching them on SKY or MOTD. Similarly with the "bite their hand off" type comments - that extra cash helps to keep our team going in the right direction, whether by releasing funds to extend the contracts of existing players or buying new ones.

    Having said all that I am not a huge fan of the premiership and the hype that goes with it - "Big Four" my arse!
  • stoneroses19stoneroses19
    With peoples reasoning that they don't want to go back to being beaten 3/4 nil at home in the premiership.
    Looking at the results of our last season in premier league we actually only lost two games by 3-0 (Liverpool and Man Utd) so we watched seventeen games where we didn't lose by that score.
    The season before we didn't lose any home games 3/4 nil (though we did lose 5-2 to Man City).

    So while we may not have enjoyed the end of our premier league journey we certainly weren't being beaten at home by these high scores people talk of.
  • MountsfieldParkMountsfieldPark
    Saga Lout said:

    cafctom said:

    Don't really understand the term "enjoying the money". I find it strange when the Playoff Final happens and there are fans getting excited about "£150 million", as if it is actually THEIR money, which its not.

    Its the same when we are looking to sell talented players and people say things like "I'd bite their hands off for 3 million for this player".

    It seems as though fans are just becoming interested in numbers, or are at least putting the perception across that they are.

    I'd much rather see Charlton youth players and stalwarts in our side, with the same old Charlton values off the pitch (Football for a Fiver, family club, local tradition etc) than become a brand of the evermore cringeworthy Premier League which is starting to become a parody of itself.

    Yes I would be over the moon to see us promoted, but I'm never going to be getting all jazzed up about balance sheets. I can do that at work ffs.

    I see what you are saying, but what the 150 mil would mean for me is that we might actually have the funds to buy a couple of exciting players when we get into the premiership - then we get to see them in our shirts week in week out, rather than watching them on SKY or MOTD. Similarly with the "bite their hand off" type comments - that extra cash helps to keep our team going in the right direction, whether by releasing funds to extend the contracts of existing players or buying new ones.

    Having said all that I am not a huge fan of the premiership and the hype that goes with it - "Big Four" my arse!
    Hopefully, the £150 million would also see us pay off old debts, especially to our own ex-director fans. I think that, by and large, they deserve every penny they are owed.
  • MrOneLungMrOneLung
    Yes, this I what I wish for, for our club.
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