Tucadean is still adjusting to the Championship (hasn't even been 10 games yet) but he done more against Derby than I've ever seen in 90 mins from Church.
Yet Church has more Championship goals...
Trouble is that we've got two players from last season (both having complete opposite seasons) under the microscope in Church and Wilson.
Wilson had a good season last year being the best player in a poor team which could be where he excels (i.e. Doesnt have to worry about fighting International / low-Champions League standard players for a place in the starting line-up)... Is almost certainly his first season surrounded by some top players so his Footballing brain may not be quick enough for them.
Church on the other plays regulary with Gareth Bale.. Aaron Ramsey etc... he's played Premier League Football with Reading working alongside the likes of Kevin Doyle and Shane Long so the Charlton team he played for last season was probably the worst team he's been part of, could be a case where his Footballing brain is a little bit quicker so he's expecting to receive balls when he was surrounded by players who couldnt provide him that outlet
Church may have scored more championship goals but he's certainly had a lot longer to hone his skills at this level.
Tucadean is still adjusting to the Championship (hasn't even been 10 games yet) but he done more against Derby than I've ever seen in 90 mins from Church.
Yet Church has more Championship goals...
Trouble is that we've got two players from last season (both having complete opposite seasons) under the microscope in Church and Wilson.
Wilson had a good season last year being the best player in a poor team which could be where he excels (i.e. Doesnt have to worry about fighting International / low-Champions League standard players for a place in the starting line-up)... Is almost certainly his first season surrounded by some top players so his Footballing brain may not be quick enough for them.
Church on the other plays regulary with Gareth Bale.. Aaron Ramsey etc... he's played Premier League Football with Reading working alongside the likes of Kevin Doyle and Shane Long so the Charlton team he played for last season was probably the worst team he's been part of, could be a case where his Footballing brain is a little bit quicker so he's expecting to receive balls when he was surrounded by players who couldnt provide him that outlet
He was one of the worst players against Andorra, the papers gave him something like 4.5 out of 10. Curiosity leads me to want to see what he would be like in our new set up. However, everything about him last season suggests we've got a turkey. I'm a great believer that a striker must have 2 out of 3 of these qualities to be successful in a team. They are finishing, ability to hold the ball up and finally pace. Now obviously there is a lot more to that but I am broadly speaking to save going into an in depth analysis. Which of those 3 qualities does Church possess?
In my opinion, none. All people ever talk about is his ability to work hard for the team and run the channels. That's admirable, but as others have alluded, we need someone up top to hold the ball up. We need to take pressure off Vetokele, and bring our midfielders into play.
I'm happy to give him a game or two. But based on last season, it's going to be a miracle if he has an impact.
Clutching at straws, unbelievable. Church is a honest pro but just not very good. Rather have pete the pole back, at least then we could moan about how much he cost.
If you saw him today you would not say give Church a go.
I'm not surprised. He travelled to Rotherham but was not in the squad (same as Gomez). He was though on the pitch warming up prior to the game and was clearly very upset. Morrison gave him a big hug and he was also consoled by one of the fitness guys. He then spent some time running up and down the touchline with Gomez. He was not a happy bunny. It's difficult to imagine that he would have thought there was any point in putting in a shift for the U21s yesterday. If it had been me, I'd have pulled a Monday sickie.
It's about time he had a decent run in the side. He deserves it and always wears the shirt with pride. Always gets unfair crap on here. Think he is totally underrated and gives 100% every time.
'Ol Spongefoot has had chance...after chance...after chance...after chance...and it just ain't happening.
To be honest I'm surprised he's still at the club and even more surprised some people still think he'll come good. What more evidence do you people want??
For me its the fact he managed 12-goals for Reading one season a little while ago...
Might not be a lot to some yet it means he can do it at Championship level, has just lost his way a little bit since then and needs someone to put their arm around him and give him some Confidence, a word for me that is everything in Football...
We aren't failing to score, we are still gelling and we are creating chances. Why would you need to upset the system to bring in a player who on a good day brings a 6.5 out of 10 performance to the pitch?
I like Church, he tries hard, is a true team player but has no individual quality which can really make him a great striker. Igor has the ability to get the ball and run at players, i'm confident he can make things happen and if he gets it wrong will think he can do it again. If Church gets it wrong I think that is his last chance for the match and it is now going to be a game of running for him.
A good engine does not mean a good player, Alan Pardew said Dean Sinclair had one of the best engines he has seen.....i'll leave it there.
I have to admit i have never been a fan of Church as a striker. He tries very hard but his end product lets face it sucks, but no one can really say his workrate is poor. I think Tucudean and Moussa will come good and obviously seen by Bob as the main 2 choices for alongside Vitokele. Moussa needs a longer run in the team and is more of an attacking midfielder than a striker and Tucudean maybe until he finds his feet more might be better suited as an impact sub against tired legs in this league.
But at the end of the day Church is our only other striker. Keeping him in the reserves is not going to help him and playing in a team with confidence and alongside a striker who can score goals might boost his confidence, remove the pressure on him and might shine (big might).
But as others have said we are unbeaten and playing well, so do we really need to change it about so early. It would be nice to score more than one goal in a game to ease pressure on our defence (especially if we are playing from the back rather than hit and hope), but i don't think Church is the answer to our lack of getting that second goal. Gudmundsson, Bulot, Buyens, Cousins and Jackson have goals in them. Not panicking at all at the moment and just enjoying the fact we are in the top half of the league and playing well compared to last year.
We aren't failing to score, we are still gelling and we are creating chances. Why would you need to upset the system to bring in a player who on a good day brings a 6.5 out of 10 performance to the pitch?
I like Church, he tries hard, is a true team player but has no individual quality which can really make him a great striker. Igor has the ability to get the ball and run at players, i'm confident he can make things happen and if he gets it wrong will think he can do it again. If Church gets it wrong I think that is his last chance for the match and it is now going to be a game of running for him.
A good engine does not mean a good player, Alan Pardew said Dean Sinclair had one of the best engines he has seen.....i'll leave it there.
Fair comment but Pards was talking about Dean's Thomas the Tank collection.
We aren't failing to score, we are still gelling and we are creating chances. Why would you need to upset the system to bring in a player who on a good day brings a 6.5 out of 10 performance to the pitch?
I like Church, he tries hard, is a true team player but has no individual quality which can really make him a great striker. Igor has the ability to get the ball and run at players, i'm confident he can make things happen and if he gets it wrong will think he can do it again. If Church gets it wrong I think that is his last chance for the match and it is now going to be a game of running for him.
A good engine does not mean a good player, Alan Pardew said Dean Sinclair had one of the best engines he has seen.....i'll leave it there.
Agreed. Running your nuts off, providing energy and lots of running is only a virtue if anything ever comes of it... and with Church it very rarely does. There is a difference between closing a keeper/defender down and just running towards them, and Church does the latter. I am sure he is a great bloke and a popular guy amongst players and staff... but he isn't very good.
If the record of 1 goal every 10 league games get's him a start as a forward, then we have major problems.
I've said before, his best work for CAFC has been when he runs the channels (no english/ bristol channel jokes ) He is just to weak to be a number nine, He's the polar opposite of the type of striker we need.
Big, strong, can take the hits instead of Igor, can head the ball, and score maybe 10 a season, will have some faults, may be one paced. (will be out of our price range if not)
Could this have been Michael Smith ? scored goals at 1st division Level, never given a another try at champ level even after scoring where ever he was sent out to on loan. he may not have been good enough, but he was more advanced than others who were given game time up front last season.
Michael Smith had more game time / experience than most who were given a chance yet he was also impatient.
He'd already been out on loan once so had he played for Charlton (and flopped) after appearing for AFC Wimbledon then he'd have been stuck with us for the rest of the season.. Because of our position at the time (and I believe because of Joe Pigott's confidence knock against Millwall) I reckon Chris Powell didnt want to throw him in during a Relegation battle (i.e. Had he flopped as well am sure a lot of fans would have been asking why Smith was risked in an important match etc... etc...) and risk the same happening again, Smith probably hearing this then announces he wants first team football away from the Valley on a perm basis.
Had we been Mid-Table at the time and a lot more comfortable then I reckon Michael Smith would still be a Charlton player to this day.
Michael Smith had more game time / experience than most who were given a chance yet he was also impatient.
He'd already been out on loan once so had he played for Charlton (and flopped) after appearing for AFC Wimbledon then he'd have been stuck with us for the rest of the season.. Because of our position at the time (and I believe because of Joe Pigott's confidence knock against Millwall) I reckon Chris Powell didnt want to throw him in during a Relegation battle (i.e. Had he flopped as well am sure a lot of fans would have been asking why Smith was risked in an important match etc... etc...) and risk the same happening again, Smith probably hearing this then announces he wants first team football away from the Valley on a perm basis.
Had we been Mid-Table at the time and a lot more comfortable then I reckon Michael Smith would still be a Charlton player to this day.
Agree with some of your points, but you can't not play Smith just because of Joe Pigott's poor show against Milwall. (every one played poor that day).
He had a right to be impatience, 1 league game and 1 sub Ap in his cafc career. As we were on .7 goals per match during the first half of last season what did we have to lose ?
I'm uncertain if he was the answer. but as Vardy showed on sunday, give the hungry players a chance.
Michael Smith had more game time / experience than most who were given a chance yet he was also impatient.
He'd already been out on loan once so had he played for Charlton (and flopped) after appearing for AFC Wimbledon then he'd have been stuck with us for the rest of the season.. Because of our position at the time (and I believe because of Joe Pigott's confidence knock against Millwall) I reckon Chris Powell didnt want to throw him in during a Relegation battle (i.e. Had he flopped as well am sure a lot of fans would have been asking why Smith was risked in an important match etc... etc...) and risk the same happening again, Smith probably hearing this then announces he wants first team football away from the Valley on a perm basis.
Had we been Mid-Table at the time and a lot more comfortable then I reckon Michael Smith would still be a Charlton player to this day.
Agree with some of your points, but you can't not play Smith just because of Joe Pigott's poor show against Milwall. (every one played poor that day).
He had a right to be impatience, 1 league game and 1 sub Ap in his cafc career. As we were on .7 goals per match during the first half of last season what did we have to lose ?
I'm uncertain if he was the answer. but as Vardy showed on sunday, give the hungry players a chance.
Completely agree with this but was Chris Powell (Who ultimately was responsible for picking the side) wary in the end.
And did he have the right to be impatient...? Yes he'd done well at AFC Wimbledon in League Two but the previous season he hadn't set the world alight at Colchester in League One so would be even more unproven at Championship level (He may still be unable to make the jump from League One to Championship... Has happened to others like David Mooney who have L1 as their ceiling level)
Do you not think he may improve as a Striker with the quality of having Gudmundsson, Buyens and Vetokele around him... the biggest difficulty for Church last season was having to pick up the ball from distance and running at Defences (Something Church cant do).
I'd argue that the biggest difficulty for Simon Church is that my nan can strike the ball harder and with more accuracy than him. And she's been dead for nearly 10 years.
I love his work rate and attitude but it's his ability that concerns me.
I think church could do a job for us in games like Rotherham away second half. Trying to hold a lead When our midfield drop deep and shape up to defend. Church and Igor will work harder at pressing opposition defenders.
Do you not think he may improve as a Striker with the quality of having Gudmundsson, Buyens and Vetokele around him... the biggest difficulty for Church last season was having to pick up the ball from distance and running at Defences (Something Church cant do).
I'd argue that the biggest difficulty for Simon Church is that my nan can strike the ball harder and with more accuracy than him. And she's been dead for nearly 10 years.
I love his work rate and attitude but it's his ability that concerns me.
Having heard about the abillities of Rizzo's nan, Greenie's nan and Harry Redknapp's wife,back in the days, can Big Phill Chapple please start watching the women's premier league. (Eni Aluko)
Rizzo you are right, the last time i saw church really leather the ball was the pre season match at Ebbsfleet, when the ball cleared the stand and was found in a garden in Gravesend. Prior to that row Z at the covered end when on the edge of the box against sheff wed. ( the pitch was shite may of got a bad bounce)
I will still support him if picked because, THEM ARE THE RULES.
Seriously Church is poo, nice lad but what does that matter.
I don't understand how he's got a career as a footballer. Absolutely shocking at shooting, never seen anything like it. Annoying how we don't have Michael Smith now who could grow into a talent but instead we're stuck with Church who we know is never really going to get any better.
Nice lad and hard working yes. Could he make a real difference to our side? Not a chance. Don't mind him coming on as a sub for the odd few minutes if we've got a decent lead but I'd much rather see Tucudean start over him.
Comments
In my opinion, none. All people ever talk about is his ability to work hard for the team and run the channels. That's admirable, but as others have alluded, we need someone up top to hold the ball up. We need to take pressure off Vetokele, and bring our midfielders into play.
I'm happy to give him a game or two. But based on last season, it's going to be a miracle if he has an impact.
Rather have pete the pole back, at least then we could moan about how much he cost.
Err...
Simon Simon Simon Church
Simon Simon Church
Simon Simon Simon Church
Simon Simon Church
He inspires me that much...
To be honest I'm surprised he's still at the club and even more surprised some people still think he'll come good. What more evidence do you people want??
Might not be a lot to some yet it means he can do it at Championship level, has just lost his way a little bit since then and needs someone to put their arm around him and give him some Confidence, a word for me that is everything in Football...
Give me a go?
I like Church, he tries hard, is a true team player but has no individual quality which can really make him a great striker. Igor has the ability to get the ball and run at players, i'm confident he can make things happen and if he gets it wrong will think he can do it again. If Church gets it wrong I think that is his last chance for the match and it is now going to be a game of running for him.
A good engine does not mean a good player, Alan Pardew said Dean Sinclair had one of the best engines he has seen.....i'll leave it there.
But at the end of the day Church is our only other striker. Keeping him in the reserves is not going to help him and playing in a team with confidence and alongside a striker who can score goals might boost his confidence, remove the pressure on him and might shine (big might).
But as others have said we are unbeaten and playing well, so do we really need to change it about so early. It would be nice to score more than one goal in a game to ease pressure on our defence (especially if we are playing from the back rather than hit and hope), but i don't think Church is the answer to our lack of getting that second goal. Gudmundsson, Bulot, Buyens, Cousins and Jackson have goals in them. Not panicking at all at the moment and just enjoying the fact we are in the top half of the league and playing well compared to last year.
Simon church...a goalscoring threat?
Not when he has such trouble finding the net
Give him the ball whilst he's in space
You'll only then realise the pass was a waste
Yes he works hard, puts in a shift
But that doesn't bridge the ability rift
Let's just face it, he just ain't that great
But that's not his fault, no need for hate
With all that said I wouldn't say no
To giving Simon one more go
If his running around creates space for Igor
Who knows how many more goals we might score
I've said before, his best work for CAFC has been when he runs the channels (no english/ bristol channel jokes )
He is just to weak to be a number nine, He's the polar opposite of the type of striker we need.
Big, strong, can take the hits instead of Igor, can head the ball, and score maybe 10 a season, will have some faults, may be one paced. (will be out of our price range if not)
Could this have been Michael Smith ? scored goals at 1st division Level, never given a another try at champ level even after scoring where ever he was sent out to on loan. he may not have been good enough, but he was more advanced than others who were given game time up front last season.
He'd already been out on loan once so had he played for Charlton (and flopped) after appearing for AFC Wimbledon then he'd have been stuck with us for the rest of the season.. Because of our position at the time (and I believe because of Joe Pigott's confidence knock against Millwall) I reckon Chris Powell didnt want to throw him in during a Relegation battle (i.e. Had he flopped as well am sure a lot of fans would have been asking why Smith was risked in an important match etc... etc...) and risk the same happening again, Smith probably hearing this then announces he wants first team football away from the Valley on a perm basis.
Had we been Mid-Table at the time and a lot more comfortable then I reckon Michael Smith would still be a Charlton player to this day.
(every one played poor that day).
He had a right to be impatience, 1 league game and 1 sub Ap in his cafc career.
As we were on .7 goals per match during the first half of last season what did we have to lose ?
I'm uncertain if he was the answer. but as Vardy showed on sunday, give the hungry players a chance.
And did he have the right to be impatient...? Yes he'd done well at AFC Wimbledon in League Two but the previous season he hadn't set the world alight at Colchester in League One so would be even more unproven at Championship level (He may still be unable to make the jump from League One to Championship... Has happened to others like David Mooney who have L1 as their ceiling level)
Jack Munns
It's insane.
We have not lost a game yet, chill the F out maaan.
I love his work rate and attitude but it's his ability that concerns me.
Rizzo you are right, the last time i saw church really leather the ball was the pre season match at Ebbsfleet, when the ball cleared the stand and was found in a garden in Gravesend. Prior to that row Z at the covered end when on the edge of the box against sheff wed. ( the pitch was shite may of got a bad bounce)
I will still support him if picked because, THEM ARE THE RULES.
I don't understand how he's got a career as a footballer. Absolutely shocking at shooting, never seen anything like it. Annoying how we don't have Michael Smith now who could grow into a talent but instead we're stuck with Church who we know is never really going to get any better.
Nice lad and hard working yes. Could he make a real difference to our side? Not a chance. Don't mind him coming on as a sub for the odd few minutes if we've got a decent lead but I'd much rather see Tucudean start over him.