EA has is spot on IMO. I brought 2 other dads with their boys to the Wigan game last year and one of the main reasons they didn't come back was because frankly, it was sh*t. The football we played was terrible and it was boring to watch for myself, let alone the 4/5 year olds.
I know we can't guarantee an exciting game, but at least while there is a chance we might get a win and a couple of goals we should be maximizing the opportunity. I took my son on Saturday and for the first time ever he asked when we can go again because he enjoyed it so much. While we're playing a bit of decent football and winning games we should try and get the ground as full as possible.
Agree, Plaaayer that we need to think about "striking whilst the iron's hot " or rather whilst our players are hot.
Leafletting at local stations has been a strategy in previous seasons although I have no idea how successful this has been in terms of increasing matchday attendance.
But banner headlines like " Want to see the Championship's joint top scorer ? And find out why one new acquisition has been called The Beast ? Then get yourself a ticket for Charlton's next match on *** against ***when every under 16 accompanied by an adult can watch for only £1!! You know it makes sense to support your local team"
Surely the target has to be the lost 10,000 or so Premiership regulars, many of whom remained loyal during our first season down before drifting away? We had a few 20,000+ non special offer home turnouts in League One-Millwall, Swindon Play Off-but have not got anywhere near that since we got back in the Championship.
Remember reading somewhere a few years ago that the club's database amounted to about 50,000 people.
Where are 'ya? Let's be 'avin ya? (To coin a phrase!)
I agree that there are many, many CAFC fans out there who have dropped out since 2007 who might come back. The simplest promotional tool available would be to offer a free Premier League ST to anyone who buys in now. For the ticket revenue in the Premier League is less crucial than it is now given the TV revenues.
Basically jam today built around the new squad and new offering which I believe is our best chance of returning.
Once the free Premier league ticket offer ran out last time, thousands drifted away.
For whatever reason there is now only one football for a fiver game per season whereas there are plenty of home games in this league which might attract very few additional fans.
I get the thing about ST value and think perhaps the core set of fans should be asked their views...and also rewarded as above.
And len is 100% right. 50% of the fan base have been going since before Selhurst...all groupings need looking after not taken for granted.
Covered End Upper is one area that is pretty full. So why antagonise and alienate those who buy their season tickets there by suggesting closing it? Unless you are a troll of course in which case ok I've bitten!
The "asset sweater" already antagonised hundreds of season ticket holders with his Cross Bar idea. Don't we ever learn? We want to attract more season ticket holders not alienate the valuable ones we have.
You don't gain more "customers" (the word that seems in vogue) by antagonising and alienating those that have remained loyal to you.
You gain more "customers" by:
1) Improving the product on the park which, in fairness, is happening. The next stage is overcoming the natural cynicism of gnarled old Charlton fans convinced that any improvement in form is just a "flash in the pan."
2) Don't treat us with contempt. Exemplified by the disgusting treatment of ME14 Addick and her family in a supposed "premium" part of the ground. We know the Club regards us as "customers" until they have our money when we revert to being "punters" when it comes to the service aspect or, in other words, actually giving us what we have paid for.
The Club consider it acceptable that "customers" miss 15 minutes or more of a match if they want food or drink at halftime. That is a fact because they have made absolutely no effort to improve the situation over many years. When money is tight the casual visitor simply will not stand for being "mugged off."
3) Same as 2) but relates to tickets. Not everybody wants to plan their lives to the nth degree and decide weeks or months in advance that they are going to a football match. Sometimes, like yesterday, it's a nice sunny day and one thinks I fancy a game of football. Queuing for what seems like hours for tickets and missing the kick off and thus, in yesterday's instance, the only goal of the game is not calculated to win friends and influence people.
4) Don't tinker with the history and heritage of the Club eg Red, Red Robin. We are a family club. Such things are handed from generation to generation. Recognise and embrace that rather than fight it.
In summary "customer service" and "value for money" rather than "asset sweating."
I realise such views are an anachronism in the 21st Century and deserve to be ignored but here they are anyway should there be a smidgin of interest.
Agree with those who have pointed out that declining attendances are a general trend in football, but that doesn't stop us being proactive. There are definitely some long-term fans who got disillusioned last season with the departures of old favourites - I was one of them, and stopped attending after Sheffield U. However, after getting to the Wigan match at start of this season, and watching a couple of live streams, I have got my mojo back, and can't wait for my next trip to The Valley.
It needs a fairly classic marketing approach IMO - retain the regulars (lots done on this around season tickets), get the occasional fans to become regulars, get lapsed to become occasional fans again, and get new/ prospects to start coming along. I'm sure the Club are aware of a lot of this, but when I interviewed KM for Trust News (get your copy on Tues if you haven't already) she gave a heartfelt plea for fans to help with this, admitting that she doesn't really understand what the Club needs to do to build the attendance. She too finds it a bit upsetting to see a half empty stadium.
Definitely a role for FF, Trust, individual fans etc to help out with ideas, and they are willing to listen it seems. But in the end, it is the employees of the club who need to assess feasibility/ practicality and then implement the ideas, including finding budget for them - it has to be a partnership.
Recognising there is a problem is maybe the first step in building it back up again.
I suppose it is pie in the sky, but kentaddick has a point about attendances and Airman Brown. I reckon AB would offer whatever help and advice he could in this matter, and not expect employment on the back of it, and I certainly believe that AB has a lot of expertise in regard to getting people in to the Valley. I don't know who Katrien's gatekeeper might be, or who has her ear, but if she wants the help of fans, then AB is one obvious fan to engage with.
Why not offer a '4 match deal' for £50 (normal price £24x4 ) and U16 go free. Based on a 'green' seating price. Lower North. Yes, it would be selling tickets at half price, and the younger get in for nothing. I would aim this at 'lapsed season ticket holders' since the prem. You could call it the 'green deal'.. or the 'red deal' if you want to !
Get's you a prime target audience..... ex ST's and the youngsters. Limit it to 2 adults per family.
Personally, I would rather have supporters at a discount then empty seats, but I am not funding this. It gives the club the opportunity to showcase the new pitch, and the improvements, and get's people into the habit of going. Just a 'personal idea'........
In terms of enjoyment of the experience, and stayaways and never returners. When I went to Dulwich hamlet for the non league day game I discovered that in terms of the usual gate, Dulwich had improved their attendance fivefold in recent years. I know it is a weak comparison to make with all of the difficulties for a club at our level, but I do know the experience was highly enjoyable, fun even. What creates a five-fold increase? It seems to me the football plays some part for Dulwich, but it is much more likely that loads of other aspects matter too. So if we addressed issues like prices, travel, (whisper this) safe standing, better catering, beer in sight of the football, family friendly initiatives (especially, especially especially with regard to young 'uns), and a sense of pride in or individuality and uniqueness (gulp) he we would make a start. I am interested if the empty seats at the Valley on Saturday were contrasted by full executive boxes, executive selling being the sexy end of match day promotions. If we are to get people in, we must either be unstoppably successful on the pitch, or somebody(s) has to do some relatively personally unrewarding heavy lifting.
Proves how far we came during the 90's into the next decade, that a gate of 17k is seen as poor. As others have mentioned most clubs in the Champ are getting less people now than a few years ago. Only clubs whose gates who are holding up or getting better are Derby and Forest.
All the ticket offers such as £5 games are fine, but you have to remember we have tickets at £15 a game, doubt you would find this cheaper anywhere else. The club have got to this message out there more clearly as I feel at the minute with the different price structures it all looks rather messy.
I don't think it's a case that '17k is seen as poor'. It's not, in fact it's quite good.
But that doesn't tell the picture of the paying home actually there attendance and the fact seeing the highlights and pics of the west, east and North lower those areas are so sparsely populated and the only real busy area close to the pitch is the away end.
I don't think it's a case that '17k is seen as poor'. It's not, in fact it's quite good.
But that doesn't tell the picture of the paying home actually there attendance and the fact seeing the highlights and pics of the west, east and North lower those areas are so sparsely populated and the only real busy area close to the pitch is the away end.
Fair point but a lot of that is due to the clubs ticket pricing. The lower North should be 1 of the cheapest areas in the ground, but we don,t do this to charge the away fans more. If we had the North Lower cheaper a large chunk of those in the NW quad would move there
If every season ticket holder could bring along one mate per match then the gate would grow easily. I know it's not easy but I am forever pestering people at work to come along. 3 coming tomorrow for the pre match curry deal. Hopefully a good performance will make them consider returning. I agree with the lack of knowledge, I told a few pals who used to attend about the cheap tickets this season and they were unaware. Definitely in need of more advertising...!!!
My impression is that the club are more interested in building crowds and emotional engagement for the long term, rather than looking at short term income. But I agree that it is not just about cheap offers - we need to get more people more into the habit. The approach should be more focussed on getting people to attend regularly rather than one-off giveaways eg rewarding new fans who attend five matches out of ten (though appreciate this has systems implications).
I like the T27k idea, but think the remit should go beyond specific schemes, and also look at "brand CAFC" (sorry, Len, and those who hate marketing jargon). The image of Charlton currently is wholesome, worthy, family -friendly, which are good values as a foundation, but perhaps we need to add a bit more glamour and excitement (no I don't mean cheerleaders etc) - just raising CAFC's profile in the media, getting more televised games, getting talked about more. We have a pretty strong presence on social media, which is a good starting point, but we are quite low on celebrity support/appeal.
Weegie , how dare you say that, your forgetting Dave Berry and Jim Davidson.
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the on-the-day ticket buying experience is horrendous and must put a lot of people off who would otherwise make an on the spur of the moment decision to go.
If you had a block of 2 or 3 thousand seats, say in the west stand near the away end, that was unallocated seating, i.e you pay at the turnstile at that end and get a ticket but you can sit anywhere in that block, the queue would move significantly quicker than the queues at the ticket windows in the west stand. Some extra stewarding would be required but I think it would pay for itself many times over.
Honestly think the NU needs to relocate down into the original covered end, it looks so weird having the upper tier fuller than the lower
Completely agree. Would help hugely with the atmosphere, having the old Covered End Choir back downstairs when you might actually hear them and right by the players tunnel.
Perhaps people actually enjoy sitting in the upper tier, much better view, can see the game developing etc & yes I have stood & sat in the Covered End as was since the sixties but still join in with a lot of the singing.
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the on-the-day ticket buying experience is horrendous and must put a lot of people off who would otherwise make an on the spur of the moment decision to go.
If you had a block of 2 or 3 thousand seats, say in the west stand near the away end, that was unallocated seating, i.e you pay at the turnstile at that end and get a ticket but you can sit anywhere in that block, the queue would move significantly quicker than the queues at the ticket windows in the west stand. Some extra stewarding would be required but I think it would pay for itself many times over.
Very good point but clubs with large away support would end up paying on the door or even those who wouldn't sell out but have fans who fancy a ruck would just go in the home area designated as pay at the door.
Organised travel in the local area, i.e. from schools, doesn't and won't work. We consistently found that it only really works about 20 miles plus from The Valley, where the opportunity to go independently is not a factor.
I don't think the opportunity to buy tickets at the ground on the day is much of a factor in the attendances to date. If you are worried about that you will buy in advance, although there is a significant risk that the arrangements will fail with a big walk-up.
Football for a Fiver should obviously be before Christmas, not least to sell half-seasons, although there are limited options. Blackpool on December 13th would have been the best one.
Full page ads in newspapers like the ES are very expensive and very hard to justify against the marginal revenue.
The club's approach to Valley Express - run as few coaches as possible - will not help.
However, whatever is done you are not going to get spectacular short-term growth - have a look even at past promotion seasons. If we sell 13,000 home tickets at advertised prices (there will be 1,000 plus comps) this is reasonable by our historic standards for the second tier.
Foreign Tourists in london who want to watch a English Soccer match on a saturday or tuesday night. I think the hotels or tourist board would have to have the details of the games.
when we were in the Prem i heard lots of foreign voices. coming to the valley instead of the London dungeon.
September 14 edited September 14 Has anyone ever considered that all this wretched and totally needless public sniping just wears people down and that they end up thinking to hell with this football malarkey, I've got better things to spend my money on? We, for example, are enjoying life as pikeys in the S of France, we weren't enjoying life at the Valley, sometimes things are really quite simple. Stilladdicted
You might possibly consider changing your name on here.
We all must know half a dozen people who used to come regularly? If we all just nag, badger, cajole, threaten, bribe or abduct one or two, that will make a noticeable difference.
We all must know half a dozen people who used to come regularly? If we all just nag, badger, cajole, threaten, bribe or abduct one or two, that will make a noticeable difference.
Need another football for a fiver. Was able to get 28 kids and parents to the Wigan game from son's school team last year, shame it was such a dull affair. However almost all the parents who are local (Lee/Blackheath) had not been to the valley before and were surprised how easy it was to get to and that it was a good experience.
I know ticket prices are cheap but for someone like me a student living more than an hour away it's not cheap! Nearly £30 for he train which takes nearly 2 hrs.. plus food a couple of beers and a programme which are all essential for the match day experience! On top of a ticket price of £14 which is very good! But your looking at £60-65 for the day which is not something I can afford too often..
I know ticket prices are cheap but for someone like me a student living more than an hour away it's not cheap! Nearly £30 for he train which takes nearly 2 hrs.. plus food a couple of beers and a programme which are all essential for the match day experience! On top of a ticket price of £14 which is very good! But your looking at £60-65 for the day which is not something I can afford too often..
At the end of the day, the Premier League casuals have no strong loyalty to Charlton, they came to us for a chance to see good football in a pleasant, safe environment. Some stayed for the first season back in the Championship, but would then have found the difference in quality notable. Fulham will have attracted many such casuals during their PL, and dare I say it but Palace will be getting some as well, a family in Bromley say, just wanting to casually watch a game of football, might find Palace in the PL more attractive than us in the Championship
We all must know half a dozen people who used to come regularly? If we all just nag, badger, cajole, threaten, bribe or abduct one or two, that will make a noticeable difference.
With all the new appatments (flats) being built around the Greenwich area, could the club ask the developers to include a flyer in the sales package explaining the club's existence etc. An apartment (flat) on the old hospital site cost upwards of 500k with an extra 30k for a dedicated parking place. Just a suggestion.
Comments
Remember reading somewhere a few years ago that the club's database amounted to about 50,000 people.
Where are 'ya? Let's be 'avin ya? (To coin a phrase!)
The simplest promotional tool available would be to offer a free Premier League ST to anyone who buys in now. For the ticket revenue in the Premier League is less crucial than it is now given the TV revenues.
Basically jam today built around the new squad and new offering which I believe is our best chance of returning.
Once the free Premier league ticket offer ran out last time, thousands drifted away.
For whatever reason there is now only one football for a fiver game per season whereas there are plenty of home games in this league which might attract very few additional fans.
I get the thing about ST value and think perhaps the core set of fans should be asked their views...and also rewarded as above.
And len is 100% right. 50% of the fan base have been going since before Selhurst...all groupings need looking after not taken for granted.
One of my mates son's, who started attended some games last season.
Saw his first Charlton goal on Saturday !
I reckon AB would offer whatever help and advice he could in this matter, and not expect employment on the back of it, and I certainly believe that AB has a lot of expertise in regard to getting people in to the Valley.
I don't know who Katrien's gatekeeper might be, or who has her ear, but if she wants the help of fans, then AB is one obvious fan to engage with.
Yes, it would be selling tickets at half price, and the younger get in for nothing.
I would aim this at 'lapsed season ticket holders' since the prem.
You could call it the 'green deal'.. or the 'red deal' if you want to !
Get's you a prime target audience..... ex ST's and the youngsters.
Limit it to 2 adults per family.
Personally, I would rather have supporters at a discount then empty seats, but I am not funding this.
It gives the club the opportunity to showcase the new pitch, and the improvements, and get's people into the habit of going.
Just a 'personal idea'........
What creates a five-fold increase? It seems to me the football plays some part for Dulwich, but it is much more likely that loads of other aspects matter too.
So if we addressed issues like prices, travel, (whisper this) safe standing, better catering, beer in sight of the football, family friendly initiatives (especially, especially especially with regard to young 'uns), and a sense of pride in or individuality and uniqueness (gulp) he we would make a start.
I am interested if the empty seats at the Valley on Saturday were contrasted by full executive boxes, executive selling being the sexy end of match day promotions. If we are to get people in, we must either be unstoppably successful on the pitch, or somebody(s) has to do some relatively personally unrewarding heavy lifting.
Somehow, you've got to try and get the vast majority of posters on CL to attend !
It never ceases to amaze me, how many people in the UK, that live on here, don't actually go.
Before I'm shot down, yes I know there are literally a hundred good reasons why not.
But is there some way, some of these issues can be addressed ?
I wonder how many fans this brings in to these games.
As far as I know we only advertise our games as a quarter page in local newspapers.
If we continue to stay in top six, then maybe an advert in a larger circulated paper would be beneficial.
All the ticket offers such as £5 games are fine, but you have to remember we have tickets at £15 a game, doubt you would find this cheaper anywhere else. The club have got to this message out there more clearly as I feel at the minute with the different price structures it all looks rather messy.
But that doesn't tell the picture of the paying home actually there attendance and the fact seeing the highlights and pics of the west, east and North lower those areas are so sparsely populated and the only real busy area close to the pitch is the away end.
If you had a block of 2 or 3 thousand seats, say in the west stand near the away end, that was unallocated seating, i.e you pay at the turnstile at that end and get a ticket but you can sit anywhere in that block, the queue would move significantly quicker than the queues at the ticket windows in the west stand. Some extra stewarding would be required but I think it would pay for itself many times over.
12/13 season : 3 home win by middle of Feb
By tomorrow we could have 4 home wins by mid sept. 14/15
I agree theres lots of pro active things off the pitch, which can be done,
But to improve the poor home record must be paramount to catch the floaters.
I don't think the opportunity to buy tickets at the ground on the day is much of a factor in the attendances to date. If you are worried about that you will buy in advance, although there is a significant risk that the arrangements will fail with a big walk-up.
Football for a Fiver should obviously be before Christmas, not least to sell half-seasons, although there are limited options. Blackpool on December 13th would have been the best one.
Full page ads in newspapers like the ES are very expensive and very hard to justify against the marginal revenue.
The club's approach to Valley Express - run as few coaches as possible - will not help.
However, whatever is done you are not going to get spectacular short-term growth - have a look even at past promotion seasons. If we sell 13,000 home tickets at advertised prices (there will be 1,000 plus comps) this is reasonable by our historic standards for the second tier.
I think the hotels or tourist board would have to have the details of the games.
when we were in the Prem i heard lots of foreign voices.
coming to the valley instead of the London dungeon.
both could result in a horror show !
Stick to what i said at 10.34pm
Has anyone ever considered that all this wretched and totally needless public sniping just wears people down and that they end up thinking to hell with this football malarkey, I've got better things to spend my money on? We, for example, are enjoying life as pikeys in the S of France, we weren't enjoying life at the Valley, sometimes things are really quite simple. Stilladdicted
You might possibly consider changing your name on here.
It's not his fault !
Fulham will have attracted many such casuals during their PL, and dare I say it but Palace will be getting some as well, a family in Bromley say, just wanting to casually watch a game of football, might find Palace in the PL more attractive than us in the Championship