The free season ticket if we were promoted did come from a member of the board (Greg Bone, from recollection) the interesting point is that it was then submitted to Target 40k for assessment and feedback like any other idea.
The plan to work with the community trust has been in operation for many years and I worked very closely with Matt Parish, Sean Daly and others. For example, we managed to set up the first primary schools tournament on the Valley pitch bringing in hundreds of year 6 pupils from across six local authority areas. The trust were great and would always give out our publicity material as we supported them in various ways.
What they principally want, however, is free tickets to add value to their own activities. Their staff are focused on delivery and the work of the trust, quite rightly, and it is not straightforward to translate that into regular attendance at The Valley. Their work is also selective and driven by public and other funding, which is attracted by deprivation. In other words, very broadly they tend to work with communities that are less able to afford to buy tickets at The Valley. This is in no way a criticism of the trust, it is simply that the glib "we are going to work more closely with the trust because they see x,000 youngsters" conceals much bigger issues. If it was that easy to convert their contacts to supporters it would have been done 10 or 15 years ago. Nevertheless they are and always have been a big part of the story.
What the football club did was build up a direct relationship with a named contact in 300 primary schools, using free tickets on a rotational basis - usually twice a season - and the football tournament. That meant these schools would help us promote Football for a Fiver, etc, when the time came and also opened the door for the trust to promote itself. More recently this has been changed to a pull mechanism - as opposed to pushing the tickets - whereby interested parties had to phone the club so it could collect their data. This is a laudable ambition, and indeed I used it to manage the demand from community scheme football courses, but it won't generate the numbers and therefore the impact. It also begs the question of how well the club then uses the data.
Ironically, the club ended up giving out more free tickets than before via the season ticket books. In my view this was more likely to cannibalise existing revenue than the schools offer.
No mechanism is perfect, but what really needed to happen was more resource to go in behind the schools relationship or a variant of that. We couldn't do that in League One and the timing was wrong anyway. There are lots of other aspects to club development, including pricing and how you use Valley Express. I think £15 tickets are a good idea, but if you are a expecting it to make more than a very marginal difference to sales you will be disappointed and it may well be a net cost, as will the £150 season tickets.
Finally, there is the point that our matchday revenues are comparatively good in historical Charlton terms and relative to obvious comparators like Millwall. The assumption that we should be doing much better is not necessarily a valid one. There are as there have always been significant opportunities. But you have to do the work and put in the resource, whether paid or voluntary. If you take a narrow, short term view of everything you won't realise them. The point of the Target 40k committee was that it took an overview, stress-tested ideas and could sell the strategy to the board via discussion papers, etc.
A fascinating exploration of the various initiatives and ideas, Airman. I tend to think that assuming all the offers and incentives are advertised effectively, there is little more that can be done: You can't round up the innocents and frogmarch them into the stadium, despite General Pinochet. Ultimately, people must be respected for making their own decisions about how they spend their leisure time and hard-earned dosh.
I also agree with Mortimer and Sillybilly in noting the pernicious effects of saturation football on TV, and with you in suspecting that a five-pound reduction in walk-up prices would make barely any difference to attendances. Personally, I'm against filling too many empty seats with freebies for kids because it diminishes the concept of live football as a special event, an occasion to be treasured.
Fifteen thousand is actually not a bad average for a team who have consistently failed to play exciting football for the last two seasons.
What happened to the holiday football courses? I was at a fun day in Faversham yesterday, loads and loads of kids and dads, but the Charlton holiday course was dropped from our area years back. Wouldn't expanding the courses into communities such as ours fit well with the Duchatelet philosophy?
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
How did/do those 5 year s/t holders fair in comparison to buying each year? There was talk a while ago that after being promised they'd make a saving but when you actually worked it out, they would be out of pocket.
I have finished up out of pocket and think after this seasons prices were announced most people in the scheme were. Personally not bother about the money as I never bought it to make a profit and the priority on away games is not to be sniffed at.
Only jarring thing about the loss was the that the club did state (via / Steve Kavangah) that no one would end up out of pocket. When raised at the Q&A back in March Richard Murray was flippant in response to the question and appeared to take us all for granted. He acted as if he knew very little about the origins of the scheme (e.g claimed we were in the Championship when it started) despite the fact he was Chairman when the the scheme was brought in
Poor from the club to treat your fan base like that and would put me off if they decided to do another five year ticket in the future. Will stick to Valley Gold to gain priority on away tickets
You can come up with all sorts of marketing strategies, and we have had some good ideas and some stinkers in the past but ultimately football is results driven, if you win you attract fans, if you lose you don't, people want to be associated with success. Also you only have to look at any post game thread where we have played crap and lost, and even the most hardened supporters, at one time or another have said/thought, 'Thats it I've had enough, I'm packing it in'.
Marketing mid-table second tier football in a city where you can travel to bigger more attractive clubs as easily as driving to The Valley is a huge creative challenge, good luck and thanks to those (past and present) who are trying, and in some cases succeeding in bringing in new fans and revenue to our great club.
How did/do those 5 year s/t holders fair in comparison to buying each year? There was talk a while ago that after being promised they'd make a saving but when you actually worked it out, they would be out of pocket.
I have finished up out of pocket and think after this seasons prices were announced most people in the scheme were. Personally not bother about the money as I never bought it to make a profit and the priority on away games is not to be sniffed at.
Only jarring thing about the loss was the that the club did state (via / Steve Kavangah) that no one would end up out of pocket. When raised at the Q&A back in March Richard Murray was flippant in response to the question and appeared to take us all for granted. He acted as if he knew very little about the origins of the scheme (e.g claimed we were in the Championship when it started) despite the fact he was Chairman when the the scheme was brought in
Poor from the club to treat your fan base like that and would put me off if they decided to do another five year ticket in the future. Will stick to Valley Gold to gain priority on away tickets
I know Craig Parrett, the VIP elected rep, had a meeting with the Club a few weeks ago about the future of the VIP scheme as I bumped into him at Valley reception. Otherwise I wouldn't have known.
No rush as another 9 months to go but would be good to hear how it went.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Molloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
Well, I am not sure that is entirely true.
The arrival of much more live TV in 1991 has also coincided with an upturn in live attendances, both here and across many other countries in Europe. There is now a glut of live football on TV so we spend a lot more time in total watching football then we were able to in 1990. And the live audience and the TV audience are not completely different audiences (even though Scudamore & co would like you to believe they are).
What is definitely true in this country is that many more people spend significant money watching football on TV as well as live, but both totals have soared since 1991. The unfortunate thing is that the money has been diverted from the many to the few. By this I mean that a fan who goes to watch say Bristol Rovers also spends money watching English football on TV but Bristol Rovers get virtually none of the benefit.
So what? Well, we (who go to games) may be a minority (although I'd be interested to get hold of the exact %, for which you would need data from the likes of TGI) but we (the total watching English league football) are still far more than we were in 1990, which implies that the "product" is decent, and can be further improved by listening to its customers and giving them what they want at prices they are prepared to pay. Success on the pitch is clearly not the only driver, because patently not all 92 clubs have been successful during this period of business success for the product known as English league football.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
For once your memory fails you, Airman, because the OS carried a piece about mascot packages with the contact name Anna Molloy dated July 2012. You can find it on the web.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
You're probably right H about the Meldrew's among us tarring everyone with our old fart's brush, That said, I have noticed two trends over the last four or five seasons (which have been much more of an acid test of loyalty and passion for the club) than the ten or so that preceded them. The first is that our hard core support (or at least those who sit in my general vicinity - my STs have been in centre east or front row upper west) has been getting noticeably older. I know the young turks tent to sit in the Covered End but there has been a steady decline in numbers of young and youngish supporters near me. Add to that the fact that my own kids have been growing up over that period from the point where they could be tempted into a day doing anything so long as Dad liked it and there was a burger in it for them, to conscious teenagers/early adulthood where going to the footy is really not interesting at all and is something that old farts do! The second trend is the general one of slowly growing awareness/resentment of/at what footy has become at the top level with the obscene money. the plastic mentality, the blatant commercialism, the decline in international football generally, the diving etc etc. Whilst an element of my receptiveness to that is undoubtedly part and parcel of my own steady descent into middle aged Meldrewism - you'll be nearly fifty sometime too Matey so be careful :-) - it cannot be denied that the whole dynamic of football as a massive business and all that that means has gradually changed its position in people's lives. Paradoxically, apart from last close season when I was just depressed at the general decay during the interregnum, I have actually enjoyed the last few seasons more than I enjoyed the last few in the Premier League, at least in terms of supporting a Club that I can fear for and empathise with and players who are at least on a similar planet to most of us. Its a soap opera that remains relevant to my life and I can afford to go along every week and enjoy it and feel part of it. If we turned into Chelsea or Arsenal or even where Palace are at the moment (a temporary hiatus I suspect), I think the relevance would decline along with the affordability. Not sure I've expressed that terribly well (gaga-ness tends to accompany age y'know). I'm excited by the new season, I really am. But I'm being careful what I wish for.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
Well, I am not sure that is entirely true.
The arrival of much more live TV in 1991 has also coincided with an upturn in live attendances, both here and across many other countries in Europe. There is now a glut of live football on TV so we spend a lot more time in total watching football then we were able to in 1990. And the live audience and the TV audience are not completely different audiences (even though Scudamore & co would like you to believe they are).
What is definitely true in this country is that many more people spend significant money watching football on TV as well as live, but both totals have soared since 1991. The unfortunate thing is that the money has been diverted from the many to the few. By this I mean that a fan who goes to watch say Bristol Rovers also spends money watching English football on TV but Bristol Rovers get virtually none of the benefit.
So what? Well, we (who go to games) may be a minority (although I'd be interested to get hold of the exact %, for which you would need data from the likes of TGI) but we (the total watching English league football) are still far more than we were in 1990, which implies that the "product" is decent, and can be further improved by listening to its customers and giving them what they want at prices they are prepared to pay. Success on the pitch is clearly not the only driver, because patently not all 92 clubs have been successful during this period of business success for the product known as English league football.
Good points, but local demographics have a strong bearing on attendances at games. Derby and Leicester filled their stadiums in our division last season and may provide useful pointers, but the circumstances in provincial cities are quite different from those in south-east London.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
For once your memory fails you, Airman, because the OS carried a piece about mascot packages with the contact name Anna Molloy dated July 2012. You can find it on the web.
Bearing in mind that I was head of club development until October 2012 and that Wendy was club development manager and resigned the day after I was sacked, I think I can be fairly confident that Anna Malloy wasn't club development manager in July 2012. I also ran the ticket office and was ultimately responsible for its staffing, although I didn't oversee mascot packages because they were commercial and came under Dave Archer. I'm not aware of Anna being involved at that point and to my knowledge I've never met her, but if she was then she wasn't an employee of the club. In fact, I know she was appointed under Ben Kensell (and the trust), who didn't arrive himself until 2013. What you may be looking at is an article originally posted in July 2012 that has been updated with more recent contacts?
You can come up with all sorts of marketing strategies, and we have had some good ideas and some stinkers in the past but ultimately football is results driven, if you win you attract fans, if you lose you don't, people want to be associated with success. Also you only have to look at any post game thread where we have played crap and lost, and even the most hardened supporters, at one time or another have said/thought, 'Thats it I've had enough, I'm packing it in'.
Marketing mid-table second tier football in a city where you can travel to bigger more attractive clubs as easily as driving to The Valley is a huge creative challenge, good luck and thanks to those (past and present) who are trying, and in some cases succeeding in bringing in new fans and revenue to our great club.
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
For once your memory fails you, Airman, because the OS carried a piece about mascot packages with the contact name Anna Molloy dated July 2012. You can find it on the web.
Bearing in mind that I was head of club development until October 2012 and that Wendy was club development manager and resigned the day after I was sacked, I think I can be fairly confident that Anna Malloy wasn't club development manager in July 2012. I also ran the ticket office and was ultimately responsible for its staffing, although I didn't oversee mascot packages because they were commercial and came under Dave Archer. I'm not aware of Anna being involved at that point and to my knowledge I've never met her, but if she was then she wasn't an employee of the club. In fact, I know she was appointed under Ben Kensell (and the trust), who didn't arrive himself until 2013. What you may be looking at is an article originally posted in July 2012 that has been updated with more recent contacts?
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
For once your memory fails you, Airman, because the OS carried a piece about mascot packages with the contact name Anna Molloy dated July 2012. You can find it on the web.
Bearing in mind that I was head of club development until October 2012 and that Wendy was club development manager and resigned the day after I was sacked, I think I can be fairly confident that Anna Malloy wasn't club development manager in July 2012. I also ran the ticket office and was ultimately responsible for its staffing, although I didn't oversee mascot packages because they were commercial and came under Dave Archer. I'm not aware of Anna being involved at that point and to my knowledge I've never met her, but if she was then she wasn't an employee of the club. In fact, I know she was appointed under Ben Kensell (and the trust), who didn't arrive himself until 2013. What you may be looking at is an article originally posted in July 2012 that has been updated with more recent contacts?
I think she said it was her 30th while the pre season tour was in Belgium.
The fact she is extremely attractive doesn't come into it - she is intelligent, knows what she wants and is very well educated too.
She is not extremely attractive. She is ok looking at best. If she were to doll herself up she might be semi attractive but extremely?
Be serious... Unless you have photographic evidence to prove she is so stunning....
Attraction isn't all about looks. She was friendly and easy to talk to, easy on the eye, intelligent and even cracked a few jokes. Lots of women have one or two of those traits but she has the lot. Her husband is a lucky man and, more importantly, we are a lucky club.
I also got a kiss on the cheek from her which involved her brushing her ample boob on my more-than ample stomach. I haven't washed that part of my anatomy since :-)
I think that there is a danger of old blokes like sillybilly, Ooh Aah and AFKA thinking because they are now middle aged duffers with other demands and pressures in their lives others feel the same. Us youngsters still have the passion for our club.
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Got a letter from the club for my son to renew Young Addicks signed by Anna Molloy Club Devlopment Manager and Event Manager
Anna Malloy was organising mascot packages at The Valley at least as far back as July 2012.
I don't think so because I was still there then and she hadn't been employed at the time. Her post was created subsequently and she is partly employed by the trust. She isn't the person KM was referring to, who I believe is Lisa Squires. Lisa has worked part-time for CAFC - she was line managed by Wendy Perfect until 2012 - since 2005, mainly on the admin and contacts for group bookings and comps. She has also worked part time as Valley Gold administrator (Wendy is promoter). I'd have preferred to let the club explain what it is doing, but that's my understanding.
For once your memory fails you, Airman, because the OS carried a piece about mascot packages with the contact name Anna Molloy dated July 2012. You can find it on the web.
Bearing in mind that I was head of club development until October 2012 and that Wendy was club development manager and resigned the day after I was sacked, I think I can be fairly confident that Anna Malloy wasn't club development manager in July 2012. I also ran the ticket office and was ultimately responsible for its staffing, although I didn't oversee mascot packages because they were commercial and came under Dave Archer. I'm not aware of Anna being involved at that point and to my knowledge I've never met her, but if she was then she wasn't an employee of the club. In fact, I know she was appointed under Ben Kensell (and the trust), who didn't arrive himself until 2013. What you may be looking at is an article originally posted in July 2012 that has been updated with more recent contacts?
If we ever are in the mix for promotion i think we would get over 20,000 in the valley regular.
I would agree with this. Especially against the teams that would be challenging with us.
No wonder our gates have been falling over the past few years what with the crap that has been going on, on and off the field. I think that is directly proportionate to what is happening on the field. If the results and performances pick up then the interest will pick up and hence the attendances.
If we ever are in the mix for promotion i think we would get over 20,000 in the valley regular.
I would agree with this. Especially against the teams that would be challenging with us.
No wonder our gates have been falling over the past few years what with the crap that has been going on, on and off the field. I think that is directly proportionate to what is happening on the field. If the results and performances pick up then the interest will pick up and hence the attendances.
Elementary my dear Watson.
There's really no chance of that whatsoever if you look at the breakdown of numbers since we've been back at The Valley. We have almost never sold more than about 6,000 standard price home match tickets for any game and even that number is very unusual, the average figure in recent years has been closer to 2,000.
I'm not saying that we couldn't achieve a 20,000 crowd - we have with Football for a Fiver - but with 10,000 STs and unavoidable comps (roughly), it would take thousands of cheap or free tickets and a large away contingent. Based on the long-term data It is very hard to see home sales climbing from 2,000 to the required 7,000-10,000 without significant intervention, except possibly in the context of a decisive end-of-season match or matches.
Airman - from your experience do you think there are marketing opportunities the club can exploit from a) the considerable number of new residents who will shortly occupy the flats being built on the Peninsula, and b) the thousands of people (including many families) that in six months or so will be coming to SE7 on a Saturday to the huge new Sainsburys/?M&S/?IKEA ?? A combined shopping/matchday experience, perhaps. Should the club consider targetting these locations ??
Comments
The plan to work with the community trust has been in operation for many years and I worked very closely with Matt Parish, Sean Daly and others. For example, we managed to set up the first primary schools tournament on the Valley pitch bringing in hundreds of year 6 pupils from across six local authority areas. The trust were great and would always give out our publicity material as we supported them in various ways.
What they principally want, however, is free tickets to add value to their own activities. Their staff are focused on delivery and the work of the trust, quite rightly, and it is not straightforward to translate that into regular attendance at The Valley. Their work is also selective and driven by public and other funding, which is attracted by deprivation. In other words, very broadly they tend to work with communities that are less able to afford to buy tickets at The Valley. This is in no way a criticism of the trust, it is simply that the glib "we are going to work more closely with the trust because they see x,000 youngsters" conceals much bigger issues. If it was that easy to convert their contacts to supporters it would have been done 10 or 15 years ago. Nevertheless they are and always have been a big part of the story.
What the football club did was build up a direct relationship with a named contact in 300 primary schools, using free tickets on a rotational basis - usually twice a season - and the football tournament. That meant these schools would help us promote Football for a Fiver, etc, when the time came and also opened the door for the trust to promote itself. More recently this has been changed to a pull mechanism - as opposed to pushing the tickets - whereby interested parties had to phone the club so it could collect their data. This is a laudable ambition, and indeed I used it to manage the demand from community scheme football courses, but it won't generate the numbers and therefore the impact. It also begs the question of how well the club then uses the data.
Ironically, the club ended up giving out more free tickets than before via the season ticket books. In my view this was more likely to cannibalise existing revenue than the schools offer.
No mechanism is perfect, but what really needed to happen was more resource to go in behind the schools relationship or a variant of that. We couldn't do that in League One and the timing was wrong anyway. There are lots of other aspects to club development, including pricing and how you use Valley Express. I think £15 tickets are a good idea, but if you are a expecting it to make more than a very marginal difference to sales you will be disappointed and it may well be a net cost, as will the £150 season tickets.
Finally, there is the point that our matchday revenues are comparatively good in historical Charlton terms and relative to obvious comparators like Millwall. The assumption that we should be doing much better is not necessarily a valid one. There are as there have always been significant opportunities. But you have to do the work and put in the resource, whether paid or voluntary. If you take a narrow, short term view of everything you won't realise them. The point of the Target 40k committee was that it took an overview, stress-tested ideas and could sell the strategy to the board via discussion papers, etc.
I also agree with Mortimer and Sillybilly in noting the pernicious effects of saturation football on TV, and with you in suspecting that a five-pound reduction in walk-up prices would make barely any difference to attendances. Personally, I'm against filling too many empty seats with freebies for kids because it diminishes the concept of live football as a special event, an occasion to be treasured.
Fifteen thousand is actually not a bad average for a team who have consistently failed to play exciting football for the last two seasons.
"I think bob will win you over he certainly won me over"
My reply for the entertainment value would of been "you said that about Ian dowie"?
I reckon Murray would of chased you out the ground!!!!
However I do agree that the concept of how you watch football has shifted from going to a ground to going to the pub/sofa. Those of us who actually go to a game are a minority.
That doesn't make it impossible to bring in new fans or bring back lapsed ones but without success it is very hard.
Airman gives a lot of detail which the usual suspects will ignore or whinge about but the reality is that the work was being done for many years.
It's very good that CAFC now have a Club Development Officer (who is it?) As we need to run just to stand still. I just hope they will realise that they can see further if they stand on the shoulders of those that went before.
Marketing mid-table second tier football in a city where you can travel to bigger more attractive clubs as easily as driving to The Valley is a huge creative challenge, good luck and thanks to those (past and present) who are trying, and in some cases succeeding in bringing in new fans and revenue to our great club.
COYRs
No rush as another 9 months to go but would be good to hear how it went.
The arrival of much more live TV in 1991 has also coincided with an upturn in live attendances, both here and across many other countries in Europe. There is now a glut of live football on TV so we spend a lot more time in total watching football then we were able to in 1990. And the live audience and the TV audience are not completely different audiences (even though Scudamore & co would like you to believe they are).
What is definitely true in this country is that many more people spend significant money watching football on TV as well as live, but both totals have soared since 1991. The unfortunate thing is that the money has been diverted from the many to the few. By this I mean that a fan who goes to watch say Bristol Rovers also spends money watching English football on TV but Bristol Rovers get virtually none of the benefit.
So what? Well, we (who go to games) may be a minority (although I'd be interested to get hold of the exact %, for which you would need data from the likes of TGI) but we (the total watching English league football) are still far more than we were in 1990, which implies that the "product" is decent, and can be further improved by listening to its customers and giving them what they want at prices they are prepared to pay. Success on the pitch is clearly not the only driver, because patently not all 92 clubs have been successful during this period of business success for the product known as English league football.
You're probably right H about the Meldrew's among us tarring everyone with our old fart's brush, That said, I have noticed two trends over the last four or five seasons (which have been much more of an acid test of loyalty and passion for the club) than the ten or so that preceded them. The first is that our hard core support (or at least those who sit in my general vicinity - my STs have been in centre east or front row upper west) has been getting noticeably older. I know the young turks tent to sit in the Covered End but there has been a steady decline in numbers of young and youngish supporters near me. Add to that the fact that my own kids have been growing up over that period from the point where they could be tempted into a day doing anything so long as Dad liked it and there was a burger in it for them, to conscious teenagers/early adulthood where going to the footy is really not interesting at all and is something that old farts do! The second trend is the general one of slowly growing awareness/resentment of/at what footy has become at the top level with the obscene money. the plastic mentality, the blatant commercialism, the decline in international football generally, the diving etc etc. Whilst an element of my receptiveness to that is undoubtedly part and parcel of my own steady descent into middle aged Meldrewism - you'll be nearly fifty sometime too Matey so be careful :-) - it cannot be denied that the whole dynamic of football as a massive business and all that that means has gradually changed its position in people's lives. Paradoxically, apart from last close season when I was just depressed at the general decay during the interregnum, I have actually enjoyed the last few seasons more than I enjoyed the last few in the Premier League, at least in terms of supporting a Club that I can fear for and empathise with and players who are at least on a similar planet to most of us. Its a soap opera that remains relevant to my life and I can afford to go along every week and enjoy it and feel part of it. If we turned into Chelsea or Arsenal or even where Palace are at the moment (a temporary hiatus I suspect), I think the relevance would decline along with the affordability. Not sure I've expressed that terribly well (gaga-ness tends to accompany age y'know). I'm excited by the new season, I really am. But I'm being careful what I wish for.
Be serious... Unless you have photographic evidence to prove she is so stunning....
I also got a kiss on the cheek from her which involved her brushing her ample boob on my more-than ample stomach. I haven't washed that part of my anatomy since :-)
Doctor Who would have a field day with all the timey wimey stuff going on!
No wonder our gates have been falling over the past few years what with the crap that has been going on, on and off the field. I think that is directly proportionate to what is happening on the field. If the results and performances pick up then the interest will pick up and hence the attendances.
Elementary my dear Watson.
I'm not saying that we couldn't achieve a 20,000 crowd - we have with Football for a Fiver - but with 10,000 STs and unavoidable comps (roughly), it would take thousands of cheap or free tickets and a large away contingent. Based on the long-term data It is very hard to see home sales climbing from 2,000 to the required 7,000-10,000 without significant intervention, except possibly in the context of a decisive end-of-season match or matches.
Airman - from your experience do you think there are marketing opportunities the club can exploit from a) the considerable number of new residents who will shortly occupy the flats being built on the Peninsula, and b) the thousands of people (including many families) that in six months or so will be coming to SE7 on a Saturday to the huge new Sainsburys/?M&S/?IKEA ?? A combined shopping/matchday experience, perhaps. Should the club consider targetting these locations ??