Bad luck about ending up in Crawley - I was born there, and am well aware of its lack of charm.
I recently had half-an-hour to kill in Strood before my train. With apologies to those who live there, the hideous centre of this town has been brought to its knees by blight. The road bridge over the Medway from Rochester feeds a racetrack one-way system apparently designed by Bernie Ecclestone's subnormal son. The pavements are so narrow that you must step into the litter-strewn doorway of a vacant shop to make way for tattooed seventeen-year-old Kayleigh, pushing a sprog in a buggy while pulling on a fag.
The fabric is mostly dispiriting 1960s renewal occupied by cheap caffs; an elderly man was sitting on a bench and staring at a pigeon worrying a discarded chicken bone. The road parallel to the river features shit-brown shoebox houses that would shame Warsaw, with laughably small windows and a view of a rusting submarine from an expanse of cracked paving...
Very astute and level headed summary VF. On the rare occasion I have warily walked the precinct (I usually drive as fast as you can around the one way system...) it's like descending into the bowels of Mordor with Sauron's legions of Orcs, arranged by order of hideousness ready to take you to the fucking cleaners as soon as your attention is diverted by an even more laughable tattoo plastered on the gelatinous wobbling mass of one of the locals... It takes something special to beat the likes of Gillingham and Chatham into a cocked hat.
Oldham, Wolverhampton, Notlob, Walsall, Luton and so many others are absolute armpits of this country, yet they all have some amazing town halls and other architecture. Huddersfield has an amazing station building, yet other bits of it are woeful. Stockport has an incredible viaduct, but it overlooks a dreadful 60s/70s concrete shopping centre. In so many of these towns nothing seems to work together. London seems to get away with this more and increasingly Manchester. The Mancs often say that the IRA bomb was, ironically, one of the best things that happened to the place!
Sittingbourne is definitely looking a bit forlorn and rundown.
But the High Street (old Watling Street, the Roman road) contains many fine historic and traditional buildings and a medieval flint built church and churchyard.
What did they do to St Austell in Cornwall......... ?
Half of the old town still survives, fine traditional buildings and winding streets - then abruptly you enter the modernised part; souless weather stained grimy 1970's concrete bunker non-architecture. It's like something from the old Communist Eastern bloc.
The so called architects who designed it need shooting.
What did they do to St Austell in Cornwall......... ?
Half of the old town still survives, fine traditional buildings and winding streets - then abruptly you enter the modernised part; souless weather stained grimy 1970's concrete bunker non-architecture. It's like something from the old Communist Eastern bloc.
The so called architects who designed it need shooting.
I bet none of them had to live in St Austell.
Even as far back as 1961, the great Ian Nairn wrote: "If you feel like working up a head of steam about the shortcomings of English architects, engineers, and town planners, the south-west is a good place to go..."
What did they do to St Austell in Cornwall......... ?
Half of the old town still survives, fine traditional buildings and winding streets - then abruptly you enter the modernised part; souless weather stained grimy 1970's concrete bunker non-architecture. It's like something from the old Communist Eastern bloc.
The so called architects who designed it need shooting.
I bet none of them had to live in St Austell.
Even as far back as 1961, the great Ian Nairn wrote: "If you feel like working up a head of steam about the shortcomings of English architects, engineers, and town planners, the south-west is a good place to go..."
VF you are a legend. Your knowledge of pubs and Ian Nairn is something to behold. Your only blurred vision is perhaps CAFC, where you make valid points, but seem unaware that the club has no cash/will not spend any cash.
Just have a feeling it might be turning around though. The Leisure Centre is great,the Yak and Yeti is a good restaurant, and isn't there supposed to be some redevelopment of Passey Place in the works?
Great, insightful thread, if a bit sad for an expat to read.
Thanks, Edgeley - are you a fellow admirer of Ian Nairn? I've just finished and can thoroughly recommend 'Nairn's Towns' (Notting Hill Editions, 2013), a collection of pieces he wrote for 'The Listener' in the early 1960s. With his superb writing, Nairn could demolish bad architecture and make mincemeat out of weak urban planning.
An old friend of mine is a long-suffering County fan. Steve was born and brought up in Heaton Chapel, and now lives in Padfield, near Glossop. He still talks about Brett Angell...
Thanks VF. I've a good mate who aspires to be like Ian Nairn! I've watched the odd thing on Youtube that he's done, like the "football towns of the north" where he compares Huddersfield to Halifax. The wife was perplexed, but I found it good viewing.
County is a sad story. Too many years of a club being very badly run. It seems a long time since I watched them in the heady heights of the Championship at the Valley during 97-98.
I'm bringing my boys up Charlton now I live down here. They're learning well that supporting a proper local team means high points are rare, but feel great, and the rest of the time it is either crap or indifferent!
I know I mentioned Scotland generally and Cumbernauld in particular but I'd also like to give a special mention to Cambeltown on the helmet end of the penis-shaped Kintyre. Last time I was there, all the other rooms in the hotel were full of DHSS investigators in the area on a clampdown on single mums claiming benefit and housing while shacked up with an undeclared partner. Shocking place. All the houses and shops seem to be covered in pebble-dash and then painted a sort of mushy grey colour which is covered in green slime. A truly depressing experience brought into even starker focus by the superb scenery, wildlife and loch views on the drive from Glasgow.
Trouble is are there many town centres worth going to these days...
Most are filled with betting / payday loan shops with a variety of fast food (inc. Indian / Chinese etc...) places
Instead the Town Centre era has been taken over by the Shopping Centre and Business Park now (i.e. Bluewater / Westfields etc...) what doesnt help the Towns is the price you have to pay for parking now (especially on a Sunday) whilst the likes of Bluewater and Lakeside allow you to park for free.
Born in Barking, lived in Strood for many a year. Also lived in Bradford. Having said that lived in St Kilda, Melbourne, and that was full of more SE Asian than I could phone an ambulance for an adrenaline shot. Nice though when the Grand Prix came to town, and they shoved everyone to prison. Great city for action though.
But some of you really need to get out of your SE holes. Bradford, Leeds, Liverpool, and Manchester rule when it goes for desperation. Some great architecture, but plenty of shit.
Thats pretty much it right there. Councils want buzzing town centres and to be fair I think most of us would. But the parking charges are ridiculous and how hardline they are stopping you from parking anywhere convenient me off. If the parking was made free or dramatically reduced a difference may be seen.
Until then it will be rows and rows of cash converters, subways and pound land will remain the order of the day and anywhere half decent will be at bluewater
Thanks VF. I've a good mate who aspires to be like Ian Nairn! I've watched the odd thing on Youtube that he's done, like the "football towns of the north" where he compares Huddersfield to Halifax. The wife was perplexed, but I found it good viewing.
County is a sad story. Too many years of a club being very badly run. It seems a long time since I watched them in the heady heights of the Championship at the Valley during 97-98.
I'm bringing my boys up Charlton now I live down here. They're learning well that supporting a proper local team means high points are rare, but feel great, and the rest of the time it is either crap or indifferent!
Your mate could not have a better mentor - Nairn was a genius, and wrote like an angel. Tell him about the new book, and also 'Ian Nairn: Words in Place' by Gillian Darley and David McKie (Five Leaves Publications, 2013). 'Nairn's London' is still the best guide to the overlooked architectural gems of the capital.
A couple of years ago I visited the great man's local, the St George's Tavern behind Victoria station, where he ran a betting school and sank 14 pints at lunchtimes. Nairn was dead at the age of 53.
Yes, poor old County: they were in the Champs only 12 years ago and are now shuffling around with Brackley Town, Colwyn Bay and Vauxhall Motors. Still, they've got a good local derby with Stalybridge Celtic!
What did they do to St Austell in Cornwall......... ?
Half of the old town still survives, fine traditional buildings and winding streets - then abruptly you enter the modernised part; souless weather stained grimy 1970's concrete bunker non-architecture. It's like something from the old Communist Eastern bloc.
The so called architects who designed it need shooting.
I bet none of them had to live in St Austell.
Even as far back as 1961, the great Ian Nairn wrote: "If you feel like working up a head of steam about the shortcomings of English architects, engineers, and town planners, the south-west is a good place to go..."
Evidently, he'd just got back from Plymouth!
To be fair the city centre had been totally destroyed by the German blitz of 1941. The town planners did the rest.
Harpurhey. Having stayed there once and seen a fly on the wall documentary on this place, I can honestly say that the goings on on the chatsworth estate in shameless seem like downtown abbey. Nearby Strangeways prison is seen as bettering oneself.
Eltham is a stupid suggestion as well. Its nowhere near as nice as the other ridiculous suggestion of Brentwood, but its a lot higher up than some of the grottiest town centres that are being mentioned frequently on here.
I would actually pop to Eltham high Street as has some shops i would go in and then pop to Park Tavern for a drink after and then the Tudor Barn for dinner.
As an aside i had the best roast I have had locally in ages at the Tudor Barn at the weekend.. highly recommend.
Harpurhey. Having stayed there once and seen a fly on the wall documentary on this place, I can honestly say that the goings on on the chatsworth estate in shameless seem like downtown abbey. Nearby Strangeways prison is seen as bettering oneself.
"bombs away on Harpurhey" - as a half remembered indie band of my youth sang
Stockport has some of the most affluent areas with in its postcode, Alderley Edge, Prestbury, Wilmslow and Bramhall to name a few and yet the town centre is crap. With the mega bucks floating around its suburbs, Stockport should be pristine!! As Edgeley Addick says the 1960's shopping centre is just an eyesore and what was left around it is not much better.
Speke on Merseyside gets my vote, Harpurhey in Manchester runs it a close second and North Shields up on Tyneside makes it in to third.
Comments
Very astute and level headed summary VF. On the rare occasion I have warily walked the precinct (I usually drive as fast as you can around the one way system...) it's like descending into the bowels of Mordor with Sauron's legions of Orcs, arranged by order of hideousness ready to take you to the fucking cleaners as soon as your attention is diverted by an even more laughable tattoo plastered on the gelatinous wobbling mass of one of the locals... It takes something special to beat the likes of Gillingham and Chatham into a cocked hat.
Never lived anywhere else but fings ain't wot they usda be around here.
But the High Street (old Watling Street, the Roman road) contains many fine historic and traditional buildings and a medieval flint built church and churchyard.
It's such a shame no one seems to care.
Half of the old town still survives, fine traditional buildings and winding streets - then abruptly you enter the modernised part; souless weather stained grimy 1970's concrete bunker non-architecture. It's like something from the old Communist Eastern bloc.
The so called architects who designed it need shooting.
I bet none of them had to live in St Austell.
Keep posting old chap - you are great value.
Just have a feeling it might be turning around though. The Leisure Centre is great,the Yak and Yeti is a good restaurant, and isn't there supposed to be some redevelopment of Passey Place in the works?
Great, insightful thread, if a bit sad for an expat to read.
An old friend of mine is a long-suffering County fan. Steve was born and brought up in Heaton Chapel, and now lives in Padfield, near Glossop. He still talks about Brett Angell...
Hatfield
County is a sad story. Too many years of a club being very badly run. It seems a long time since I watched them in the heady heights of the Championship at the Valley during 97-98.
I'm bringing my boys up Charlton now I live down here. They're learning well that supporting a proper local team means high points are rare, but feel great, and the rest of the time it is either crap or indifferent!
Last time I was there, all the other rooms in the hotel were full of DHSS investigators in the area on a clampdown on single mums claiming benefit and housing while shacked up with an undeclared partner. Shocking place. All the houses and shops seem to be covered in pebble-dash and then painted a sort of mushy grey colour which is covered in green slime. A truly depressing experience brought into even starker focus by the superb scenery, wildlife and loch views on the drive from Glasgow.
Most are filled with betting / payday loan shops with a variety of fast food (inc. Indian / Chinese etc...) places
Instead the Town Centre era has been taken over by the Shopping Centre and Business Park now (i.e. Bluewater / Westfields etc...) what doesnt help the Towns is the price you have to pay for parking now (especially on a Sunday) whilst the likes of Bluewater and Lakeside allow you to park for free.
But some of you really need to get out of your SE holes. Bradford, Leeds, Liverpool, and Manchester rule when it goes for desperation. Some great architecture, but plenty of shit.
Until then it will be rows and rows of cash converters, subways and pound land will remain the order of the day and anywhere half decent will be at bluewater
having said that it s the people rather than the place
A couple of years ago I visited the great man's local, the St George's Tavern behind Victoria station, where he ran a betting school and sank 14 pints at lunchtimes. Nairn was dead at the age of 53.
Yes, poor old County: they were in the Champs only 12 years ago and are now shuffling around with Brackley Town, Colwyn Bay and Vauxhall Motors. Still, they've got a good local derby with Stalybridge Celtic!
To be fair the city centre had been totally destroyed by the German blitz of 1941.
The town planners did the rest.
Having stayed there once and seen a fly on the wall documentary on this place, I can honestly say that the goings on on the chatsworth estate in shameless seem like downtown abbey.
Nearby Strangeways prison is seen as bettering oneself.
I would actually pop to Eltham high Street as has some shops i would go in and then pop to Park Tavern for a drink after and then the Tudor Barn for dinner.
As an aside i had the best roast I have had locally in ages at the Tudor Barn at the weekend.. highly recommend.
Speke on Merseyside gets my vote, Harpurhey in Manchester runs it a close second and North Shields up on Tyneside makes it in to third.