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Where is the tipping point?

There seems to be a division between CL fans who think they have seen enough of the owner to hold a pessimistic view and those who believe he can still come good. People like me look at the sales of two of our best players when we needed to strenthen. More positive people point to Riga's introduction. Negative people like me observe that Riga was not offered a new contract and that he relied on Powell's players and we were lucky we had two great youth players in Poyet and Cousins! Yes lucky as there was not guarantee they would be as instrumental as they were. Positive people say give it time. Negative people look at Hamer and Dervitte claiming they were made laughable offers and Dyer saying that the network scouts its players over the internet. I understand Morro's initial offer was lower than his previous contract! Negative people look between the lines of knowledgable people like Powell and develop a picture from what he hints. Positive people say Peter the Pole will come good. Negative people like me say that if Charlton pay 700 euros for a player, it is reasonable to expect him to be able to go straight into the first team. Positive people point to the players we tried to sign - Gradel, Wickham on loan. Negative people note that we failed to do so and the players we did sign were on the whole pretty crap.

To turn me into a positive, I need to see some good signings and the tide turning. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath though. That would be my tipping point. Where is the tipping point for the positive posters? Do they have one?

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Comments

  • Charlton Lane
  • The players we bring in will tell me. Half a dozen games into the season we'll know. It will be too late then but I don't think we'll really know until then.
  • Yes, they will tell me too - I am not treating it as a clean slate though - I think the business done last season was reckless and could have easily relegated us - I start from that point!
  • Whilst most posters would put me in the negative bracket, the tipping point for me would be Morro and Poyet leaving, and unknown Belgies coming in - realistically, that is what i and a lot of others are expecting - its quite obviously RD's style - after all, he has shown no intent/inclination for it to be done any other way. Then again, being top 6 after 6 games would probably help sway me back - however, what is the likelihood of that?
  • The tipping point for me (and I guess I am pretty much a Duchatelista by most definitions) would be our best-rated youth products being sold WITHOUT a stint in the first team squad - if they get a season or two in the Charlton team before they are sold I will accept that is the way of football, but the likes of Gomez being flogged to other teams would stick in my craw, given RD does seem to be focussing on youth as a priority, rightly or wrongly.

    Peeters being moved on after just one season would be another (as it stands) as he is the first manager indisputably RD's first choice given other clear and viable options, Riga not least of them. I want to see evidence he wants the club to actually progress, not stagnate.

    Personally though I am intrigued and excited as much as I am perturbed and apprehensive. I am not blind to the prospect of disaster but RD is still in credit in my eyes, if not quite as much as before and at least in part due to NOT being Slater & the Shysters. I will give him time and the benefit of the doubt for sure.
  • Good summary of the 2 sides of the "fence" , Mutts.

    Agree with SHG that the players brought in will be the litmus test but for me, the most positive action possible would be the signature of Diego on a new contract.

    But as of this minute, I am somewhat of a bystander with no 100% views either way whilst trying hard to stay positive.

    Call me Splinters Fanackapan.

  • When you look at the clubs in the Championship next season I think it highly unlikely that we can break into the top third. I'm hoping top half but realistically I'm thinking bottom third which by definition means looking over your shoulder for the entire season. Progress under RD will mean avoiding bottom three all season. Not high expectations but I think realistic.
  • Yes, they will tell me too - I am not treating it as a clean slate though - I think the business done last season was reckless and could have easily relegated us - I start from that point!

    TBH , i think we got lucky last season. Lucky that there were a lot of sh*t teams around. i remember sitting there at Wigan after Kermy and Stephens had gone, thinking that there was no way back for us, we just looked so lightweight,disheartened and dishevelled at that game - yet we almost won it!

  • Been pretty positive about most things this season. Thought we would stay up, backed Powell and then Riga.

    This positivity has deserted me in recent weeks. I probably cannot articulate why, I just have an uneasy feeling about RD and the playing side of things.

    What would increase my negativity?

    Losing Poyet and Morrison would tip me. Losing one would have me on the edge.

    Continued links to decent Championship players that don't come to anything.

    Getting to the end of June with little or no signings.

    What would tip me towards positivity?

    Better communication

    Some signings of decent or potentially decent young players with experience of the Championship or League One.

    A sensible and controlled influx of established and high quality imports who are here to further their own careers.

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  • I'm in the positive camp so the tipping point for me would be us really struggling after 8-10 games, with no style or direction.

    This would be a time to worry as RD has had the summer his way, Peeters has had time to settle and the players have had time to gel. If we are getting beat convincingly, then I'll be worried.

    Exactly this for me too. End of September is the time to judge IMO
  • I was swung more on the optimistic side by the feeling that the owner and his direction is new and feels "fresh". The previous regime had so much mystery and negativity surrounding it, it's nice to actually see and know what we have behind the scenes.

    Sorting out things like the pitch, training facilities, links with the UoG, using a broader network for players could improve the club in different ways and positive. I also like the intention and clear desire to get our youngsters involved and to have a team of them playing for us. It's been a while since we have had so many academy players coming through and not looking out their depth, it's a nice touch for a fan to know we are making our own success. Will they be sold for profit to make the investment worth while? Who knows, I'd like to think not but just like any footballer, everyone has their price.

    If we lose more players and are not really recruiting as we were hoping in a months time then obviously it will be concerning and my opinion could change.

    All we can do is get behind whatever team is on the pitch and manager in the dugout.
  • For me it is if RD starts messing with our actual heritage, as in moving us from the Valley, changing the Red Red Robin when the teams come out or stopping the community work.

    On the players, it will be if we start selling quality players under contract (Cousins, Harriott, Wilson, Solly) not losing players because they want a juicy contract elsewhere, as much as i want to keep them.
  • I suspect....
  • edited June 2014
    Replace 'negative' with 'realistic', and 'positive' with 'idealistic' ;)
  • I'm trying very hard to be positive. After all RD never gets it wrong does he? (or so our Belgian friends lead us to believe)
  • I'm in the positive camp so the tipping point for me would be us really struggling after 8-10 games, with no style or direction.

    This would be a time to worry as RD has had the summer his way, Peeters has had time to settle and the players have had time to gel. If we are getting beat convincingly, then I'll be worried.

    Im far from being in the positive camp but I agree gaz. Happy to wait until 8-10 games in but as I said not in the positive camp. Probably not the negative camp either.

    Im in the lemar camp. 50/50.
  • I'm trying very hard to be positive. After all RD never gets it wrong does he? (or so our Belgian friends lead us to believe)

    How is his political party doing?

  • Would definitely consider myself on the negative side of the fence regarding the current situation. However I've come to accept that there is not MUCH substance to both the negative and the positive arguments, albeit there is more for the negative side, but not enough to be running around like headless chickens just yet.

    If things continue like this (losing key players, not replacing them, more bad words coming out about the club etc) then I find it hard to see how it can be looked at in a positive light. If some good signings are made, and by good I don't mean network rejects, then it'll be much easier to be optimistic.

    Reckon I'm about 70/30 at the moment
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  • I'm trying very hard to be positive. After all RD never gets it wrong does he? (or so our Belgian friends lead us to believe)

    On the contrary, he ALWAYS gets it wrong, he will DESTROY THE CLUB FOREVAH. Fact, nailed on, etc. It must be true, I heard it on Facebook... ;)
  • I believe in what Roland is attempting to do, wrestling back power from players & their over the top wages, making our club healthy whilst being even more a part of the local community but i am starting to worry we will get burned by so many other clubs unwilling to do the right thing and the football authorities failing to help when it matters.

    The loss of Yann, Stephens, Dervite & Hamer all point to this worry for me, that it is just not realistic without causing serious damage to our on pitch competitiveness to try and fix football unless something major happens with how it is governed.

    So i respect RD in many ways but im losing faith that the idealogy has a serious chance to succeed in this country especially when it does not even seem to be running for the best chance of success ie no sign of a director of football and such.
  • I believe in what Roland is attempting to do, wrestling back power from players & their over the top wages, making our club healthy whilst being even more a part of the local community but i am starting to worry we will get burned by so many other clubs unwilling to do the right thing and the football authorities failing to help when it matters.

    The loss of Yann, Stephens, Dervite & Hamer all point to this worry for me, that it is just not realistic without causing serious damage to our on pitch competitiveness to try and fix football unless something major happens with how it is governed.

    So i respect RD in many ways but im losing faith that the idealogy has a serious chance to succeed in this country especially when it does not even seem to be running for the best chance of success ie no sign of a director of football and such.

    Interesting that you see it that way, and I see it that RD is not prepared to spend money on keeping our current squad or improving it. Isn't it right that Morrison was offered less than he's actually on now?


  • edited June 2014
    I can see that the theory behind what RD is trying to do is sound. But it is like giving somebody a game of snakes and ladders with them having two dice to your one! It isn't fair but if your opponents are going to play with two dice , they will always beat you! It may be morally wrong, but if they don't care about that, there isn't much you can do. RD has to have a screw loose if he thinks we can get away with only playing with one dice.
  • I believe in what Roland is attempting to do, wrestling back power from players & their over the top wages, making our club healthy whilst being even more a part of the local community but i am starting to worry we will get burned by so many other clubs unwilling to do the right thing and the football authorities failing to help when it matters.

    The loss of Yann, Stephens, Dervite & Hamer all point to this worry for me, that it is just not realistic without causing serious damage to our on pitch competitiveness to try and fix football unless something major happens with how it is governed.

    So i respect RD in many ways but im losing faith that the idealogy has a serious chance to succeed in this country especially when it does not even seem to be running for the best chance of success ie no sign of a director of football and such.

    Interesting that you see it that way, and I see it that RD is not prepared to spend money on keeping our current squad or improving it. Isn't it right that Morrison was offered less than he's actually on now?


    Well im hoping to get some inside information on the Morrison situation which may change my opinion, as a close member of his family works with a member of mine.

    So if we have actually offered him less money then i will sign up to your way of thinking but i suspect we have offered him and the others the same amount he is currently on just not a pay increase like many players would like and have taken at other clubs already, which i don't see as insulting so much as paying a player a decent wage to play a game we all love.

    Not that i would hold it against any player for taking more money elsewhere, they are just thinking of themselves and the their families.
  • I'm 55 / 45 pro at the moment but I fully accept that there is so much that could go very wrong. I won't buy into the RD is bad for the club because at the moment I don't think we know. The only real evidence we have is his purchase of the club and investment in the pitch. Everything else and by that I mean the change of coaches and player sales prove nothing. What happens in getting in the required quality of players very much does matter and I will have to wait to make a judgement on that.
  • Does anyone know what Morro is currently earning. Hard to comment on a reduction in salary (even if true) if you don't know the starting point.

    We reduced another key players salary last season who re-signed.

    I am generally pessimistic as the evidence so far points that way to me but there is time to change that at the moment.

    Come on Rolly. Improving the match day experience means winning not all the fluffy stuff.
  • Does anyone know what Morro is currently earning. Hard to comment on a reduction in salary (even if true) if you don't know the starting point.

    We reduced another key players salary last season who re-signed.

    I am generally pessimistic as the evidence so far points that way to me but there is time to change that at the moment.

    Come on Rolly. Improving the match day experience means winning not all the fluffy stuff.

    Interesting point, serious question, which key player took a pay cut offered by RD to sign a new deal, as i honestly missed that story completely?

    I like to try and get as much info before forming my opinion, cheers.
  • Johnny h I reckon we will lose both mate so be prepared to be tipped



    My tipping point is the end of the forth coming season

    I expect atleast a top 12 finish to show progression under RD anything less I will see as failure


  • I fear we supporters will look back in years to come and speak of this time as "The mad professor era"......................
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Roland Out Forever!