Not over-impressed with Petrucci yesterday. Did anybody else notice that he runs like Peter Shaw or Phil Chapple ?!
Funny you should mention Peter Shaw, walked past him on Ranson Walk before the game. See him loads of times actually, wonder if he got a lifetime season ticket when he left us?!
Maybe psychologically we scapegoat Church because it is hard to face being stuck with Charlton when things are going badly. I have seen many worse players for us over the years, and many worse forwards too...Mike Small anybody for starters?
Oh, for heaven's sake, Seth - I thought of you as a kind and respectful man. And then you mentioned Mike Small. Our younger Lifers may ask: Why does this man who "played" two games for us on loan 30 years ago still haunt the minds of Charlton supporters from Belvedere to Bangkok?
OK: I'll set the scene. March 15, 1994: away at the New Den. Mike Small was a "striker", loaned to us from West Ham. He trundled around for ten minutes, fell over, hauled himself up, then decided he wasn't going to run any more. Those were the days when offside was passive, not active - so while Small was lumbering vaguely in the direction of our midfield, we were flagged offside for a quick burst on the wing. Booo! And then, twenty minutes later, the same thing: Small somehow found himself in the box, fell over - uninjured - and while he gathered himself and sauntered back in the general direction of New Cross Gate, casual as you like, we were bursting through - and got flagged offside again!
We lost, 2-1. To this day, Seth, Mike Small is the only professional player I have seen who doesn't understand the offside law.
Have only read a few posts & just need to put something on here before I lose the momentum.
Thought we played some decent football again, especially in the first 45mins, albeit without the end result we so badly need. Poyet virtually ran our show, for me & was outstanding yet again.
2nd half they came out fighting & we found it hard to compete. They looked stronger, taller & fitter (at times) although the latter was totally expected due to our battle at Elland Rd 4 days ago. Felt we might hold out for a point but wasn't to be although Ben H kept us in it with one particularly great save.
I DO recognise our frailties up front but we have what we have & Jose has to do the best he can with his limited resources. No point whatsoever crying about spilt milk - The Beast is no more & we have to deal with it. When I heard that Churchy was starting , with Obika & Reza on the bench, my first thought was that JR is happy to give them maybe 45 mins or so in order to keep them fresh for the Yeovil 6 pointer. But I was somewhat surprised that both SC & Callum stayed on the pitch....although on reflection there were other seriously tired legs out there.
This wasn't our strongest, most competitive starting line up but IMHO it was worth tinkering today with Tuesday's game the priority. Not many Lifers were predicting 3 points, some favoured a draw but most feared nil points from a top 6 team that we have a poor record against .If more supporters there today had witnessed the recent victories at Forest & Leeds, I think they would be more inclined to be charitable regarding today's performance. It's a case of "going for it 100% " in the remaining games we are more likely to win ie Yeovil, Barnsley & possibly Sheff Weds & ensuring there are few worrying knocks in the rest - more a question of pacing ourselves ? Just my opinion of course but if Jose were to say this is his game plan, I don't believe there would be too many arguing against it. It's a case of cutting our coat according to the cloth....and that's shrunk in the wash this season.
The players will be SO up for it on Tuesday evening, as will those from the West Country but those wearing the red shirts will have that extra man & we need to make sure they know that from the first to the last whistle.
Keep the faith !
"It was like watching paint dry", said a BBC reporter after our win at Forest - I wasn't there, and I believe him. Fanny - I have been watching Charlton home and away since 1966, and our performances in the last two seasons have been utterly pitiful.
Just for a minute, set aside your scarf, the mementos, the warm affection and wishful thinking. Imagine arriving at The Valley yesterday as an outside observer. You take your seat in the stand: Charlton are at home in front of a crowd of 15,000, full of hope and expectancy. And in the next 95 minutes we managed only two accurate shots at goal.
This is bad. Burnley, Barnsley, Blackburn, Bolton - Remember that all those players who regularly beat us are also worried about their future; they are playing with fatigue and injuries, their chairmen are horrible, and their wives are threatening to leave them... And yet - they win.
Again, imagine yourself as an outsider, Fanny, landing at The Valley to watch a game of football. Why on earth are we simply unable to string three accurate passes together?
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, Viewfinder but I feel you are being a tad harsh.
You make comparisons with 4 other teams ( seemingly you have a "thing" for teams beginning with B !) - why those I have no idea. We beat Blackburn at Ewood Park & drew away from home at both Barnsley & Bolton. Burnley I'll let you have ....Find it perplexing as to what point you are struggling to make !
I really don't give a flying feck what problems other teams might have & I would suggest that most Addicks feel the same. But I DO know that with nil investment last summer, a change in ownership & manager and a threadbare squad with possibly one of the weakest strike forces in the Championship, due to said lack of investment, Charlton's situation is a particularly unenviable one. I don't feel the need to look for further "excuses" - a word I feel sure is one you are close to using in your response - I merely point out the truth.
"And yet- they win " ???? So what on earth did I witness at the City Ground and at Elland Rd in the past 2 weeks ? I must be more senile than I thought ! But at least I was there...well, I think so !
As to the inability of " stringing three accurate passes together", I can only advise that a trip to a certain chain of opticians in your local High Street might be advisable. Whilst not criticising SCP, we have been playing the ball on the ground, to feet and with a decent percentage of accuracy since JR arrived. Such passes led to Jordan Cousin's goal at Forest & Reza's at Leeds....
No doubt you will reply with further so called reasons why an "observer" would find the Charlton experience a less than edifying one but said "observer" would presumably have no concept of what had contributed to the meagre fare you seem to be highlighting. That's where we differ. You & I ARE aware of the recent history: the lack of investment to bring in one or two quality additions to the squad & hence a manager working against the odds to grind out results. Because, on the whole, that's all we have been able to aim for. If that's not good enough for you, so be it. Just leave me to make up my own mind & don't expect me to agree with you - I'm a supporter & that's just what I do , support through the good, the bad & the ugly.
And please don't tell me you have never seen such "pitiful" performances before in all the 48 years you've been following our Club ! Maybe, like me, your memory is not what it used to be...
A friend of mine was back visiting from France and decided to take in our match. He is a Villa fan and has seen CAFC about five times in ten years and knows little about our goings ons, so about the closest you could get to said "neutral observer". His post match text to me: "Didn't play too badly but desperately light in attack. Goals for column does not lie. Pitch a horror."
Just when I was getting to really like Jose, he goes and plays Chuch. We have enough strikers in the squad to not have to do that, it isn't hard to see, play Church - get bugger all except larry the lamb in a red shirt. We did well in the first half, made one mistake, and that was it. Tuesday is massive, if he plays Chuch I anticipate missives !
Having recovered from the shock that the only striker who can score (Reza) was on the bench and the only one who can't was on on the pitch (again) I was quite encouraged by the first half display and while we never looked like scoring, neither did they.
Cousins and Poyet bossed some very high quality Reading midfielders and we looked the slightly better team for 45mins and played some decent stuff.
Second half was disappointing. I like young Harriot but he was useless today on the right wing and lost his nerve. AA is class but very very unfit. Poor Churchy is so inept and impotent that I feel sorry for him. He is static, wins nothing, does not hold it up, and hides behind defenders when we are in possession. My mate (Arsenal) was still laughing about him when we got back to the car.
Probably the 10th game this season when a Fuller or Haynes might have nicked something but Churchy never will bless him.
Agree with pretty much everything you say Grumpy apart from Church being static. He runs and runs (apart from when he's coming back from an offside position) but just can't score.
Also, what the fuck happened to the North Upper after Reading scored? Were they all in the bogs having a fag? I have never witnessed them go so completely silent lifeless when we go behind. Not a whisper heard from what is supposed to be the most vocal section of the home crowd. The drummer was also completely silent for a good 5 minutes after their goal.
Having recovered from the shock that the only striker who can score (Reza) was on the bench and the only one who can't was on on the pitch (again) I was quite encouraged by the first half display and while we never looked like scoring, neither did they.
Cousins and Poyet bossed some very high quality Reading midfielders and we looked the slightly better team for 45mins and played some decent stuff.
Second half was disappointing. I like young Harriot but he was useless today on the right wing and lost his nerve. AA is class but very very unfit. Poor Churchy is so inept and impotent that I feel sorry for him. He is static, wins nothing, does not hold it up, and hides behind defenders when we are in possession. My mate (Arsenal) was still laughing about him when we got back to the car.
Probably the 10th game this season when a Fuller or Haynes might have nicked something but Churchy never will bless him.
Agree with pretty much everything you say Grumpy apart from Church being static. He runs and runs (apart from when he's coming back from an offside position) but just can't score.
Also, what the fuck happened to the North Upper after Reading scored? Were they all in the bogs having a fag? I have never witnessed them go so completely silent lifeless when we go behind. Not a whisper heard from what is supposed to be the most vocal section of the home crowd. The drummer was also completely silent for a good 5 minutes after their goal.
Agree that he is very mobile when the opposition has the ball and is often chasing about but (curiously) never actually achieving an interception.
More helpful for our midfield though if when they look up they can see his arse heading down the channels not just his face looking back at them gormlessly.
The whole ground could see that church had to come off and obika on - even if riga had one eye on tuesday, putting obika on for half hour wouldn't have worn him out for tuesday surely? Tuesday is important but we thre away any chance of points saturday by leaving church on for 90 minutes. Give him the first half against his old club, get him running about and saving others legs for tuesday but to leave him on for 90 minutes was inexcusable.
The whole ground could see that church had to come off and obika on - even if riga had one eye on tuesday, putting obika on for half hour wouldn't have worn him out for tuesday surely? Tuesday is important but we thre away any chance of points saturday by leaving church on for 90 minutes. Give him the first half against his old club, get him running about and saving others legs for tuesday but to leave him on for 90 minutes was inexcusable.
Ahhh, but you're forgetting we were resting our best players for the guaranteed three points tomorrow night. ;-)
So there's your choices folks: The usual "we're so shit we're dooooomed" after a defeat - albeit by one goal to a team in the playoff spots.
Or, if you prefer: "that's it. One defeat too many. When will you fools stop pretending that it makes any difference that we have two games in hand and are 2 points clear of the bottom 3 and admit that statistically we cannot survive?" school of miserablism.
1) Fatigue – some players looked dead on their feet – JJ, Cousins & Wilson. 2) Maybe linked to 1, but nobody made an effort to get in the box so we were always outnumbered there. 3) Nobody wanted to run at players, it was a check back and give it to somebody else – I call it cop out football 4) No pace in the side
I think we need to set up differently against Yeovil – which will be hard as will risk the defensive solidity, which was still there on Saturday – but they will be coming to beat us and if we don’t pose more of a threat, they will.
1) Fatigue – some players looked dead on their feet – JJ, Cousins & Wilson. 2) Maybe linked to 1, but nobody made an effort to get in the box so we were always outnumbered there. 3) Nobody wanted to run at players, it was a check back and give it to somebody else – I call it cop out football 4) No pace in the side
I think we need to set up differently against Yeovil – which will be hard as will risk the defensive solidity, which was still there on Saturday – but they will be coming to beat us and if we don’t pose more of a threat, they will.
2, 3 and 4 could be any Charlton game since Powell left.
Thanks for your message, Fanny. As a football fan, I crave excitement: forward moves that set the pulse racing with technical skills and received cunning: moves that beat opponents and end with the ball thudding the post, skimming the bar or rifling the net - team-play of such high intensity that we are all leaping about in the Covered End with ecstasy or exasperation, having scored, or not. Yes, I'm critical when we flop, and this forum is a good vehicle for vigorous debate.
One does wonder what an outsider would think of it all. At the end of the Reading game, two young chaps a few seats away in the Lower North asked me to take their photo with their smartphone. They are Spanish; one lives locally and the other is his friend on a visit; this was their first match at The Valley. I was eager to know their impressions. They were surprised by the frequent concession of possession by both sides - but they are spoilt by their love of Barcelona, "who routinely make twenty or thirty consecutive passes."
Interesting too that they were shocked by the state of our pitch, which they suggested probably disadvantages us more than the visiting teams - I had to tell them the surface was much improved! Gratifyingly, they much enjoyed the sense of occasion, said that second-tier games in Spain are sparsely attended by just a few thousand.
Best wishes with all your excellent work organising the POTY dinner - I'm sure it'll be a roaring success.
Comments
''I have seen many worse players for us over the years, and many worse forwards too...Mike Small anybody for starters?'''
Think he only played one game, shame Church has had so many!
OK: I'll set the scene. March 15, 1994: away at the New Den. Mike Small was a "striker", loaned to us from West Ham. He trundled around for ten minutes, fell over, hauled himself up, then decided he wasn't going to run any more. Those were the days when offside was passive, not active - so while Small was lumbering vaguely in the direction of our midfield, we were flagged offside for a quick burst on the wing. Booo! And then, twenty minutes later, the same thing: Small somehow found himself in the box, fell over - uninjured - and while he gathered himself and sauntered back in the general direction of New Cross Gate, casual as you like, we were bursting through - and got flagged offside again!
We lost, 2-1. To this day, Seth, Mike Small is the only professional player I have seen who doesn't understand the offside law.
You make comparisons with 4 other teams ( seemingly you have a "thing" for teams beginning with B !) - why those I have no idea. We beat Blackburn at Ewood Park & drew away from home at both Barnsley & Bolton. Burnley I'll let you have ....Find it perplexing as to what point you are struggling to make !
I really don't give a flying feck what problems other teams might have & I would suggest that most Addicks feel the same. But I DO know that with nil investment last summer, a change in ownership & manager and a threadbare squad with possibly one of the weakest strike forces in the Championship, due to said lack of investment, Charlton's situation is a particularly unenviable one. I don't feel the need to look for further "excuses" - a word I feel sure is one you are close to using in your response - I merely point out the truth.
"And yet- they win " ???? So what on earth did I witness at the City Ground and at Elland Rd in the past 2 weeks ? I must be more senile than I thought ! But at least I was there...well, I think so !
As to the inability of " stringing three accurate passes together", I can only advise that a trip to a certain chain of opticians in your local High Street might be advisable. Whilst not criticising SCP, we have been playing the ball on the ground, to feet and with a decent percentage of accuracy since JR arrived. Such passes led to Jordan Cousin's goal at Forest & Reza's at Leeds....
No doubt you will reply with further so called reasons why an "observer" would find the Charlton experience a less than edifying one but said "observer" would presumably have no concept of what had contributed to the meagre fare you seem to be highlighting. That's where we differ. You & I ARE aware of the recent history: the lack of investment to bring in one or two quality additions to the squad & hence a manager working against the odds to grind out results. Because, on the whole, that's all we have been able to aim for. If that's not good enough for you, so be it. Just leave me to make up my own mind & don't expect me to agree with you - I'm a supporter & that's just what I do , support through the good, the bad & the ugly.
And please don't tell me you have never seen such "pitiful" performances before in all the 48 years you've been following our Club ! Maybe, like me, your memory is not what it used to be...
Anyway, let's change the subject.
How many tickets do you want for POTY ?
:-)
Also, what the fuck happened to the North Upper after Reading scored? Were they all in the bogs having a fag? I have never witnessed them go so completely silent lifeless when we go behind. Not a whisper heard from what is supposed to be the most vocal section of the home crowd. The drummer was also completely silent for a good 5 minutes after their goal.
More helpful for our midfield though if when they look up they can see his arse heading down the channels not just his face looking back at them gormlessly.
The usual "we're so shit we're dooooomed" after a defeat - albeit by one goal to a team in the playoff spots.
Or, if you prefer: "that's it. One defeat too many. When will you fools stop pretending that it makes any difference that we have two games in hand and are 2 points clear of the bottom 3 and admit that statistically we cannot survive?" school of miserablism.
1) Fatigue – some players looked dead on their feet – JJ, Cousins & Wilson.
2) Maybe linked to 1, but nobody made an effort to get in the box so we were always outnumbered there.
3) Nobody wanted to run at players, it was a check back and give it to somebody else – I call it cop out football
4) No pace in the side
I think we need to set up differently against Yeovil – which will be hard as will risk the defensive solidity, which was still there on Saturday – but they will be coming to beat us and if we don’t pose more of a threat, they will.
One does wonder what an outsider would think of it all. At the end of the Reading game, two young chaps a few seats away in the Lower North asked me to take their photo with their smartphone. They are Spanish; one lives locally and the other is his friend on a visit; this was their first match at The Valley. I was eager to know their impressions. They were surprised by the frequent concession of possession by both sides - but they are spoilt by their love of Barcelona, "who routinely make twenty or thirty consecutive passes."
Interesting too that they were shocked by the state of our pitch, which they suggested probably disadvantages us more than the visiting teams - I had to tell them the surface was much improved! Gratifyingly, they much enjoyed the sense of occasion, said that second-tier games in Spain are sparsely attended by just a few thousand.
Best wishes with all your excellent work organising the POTY dinner - I'm sure it'll be a roaring success.
.