No one from the board has slated you despite your non stop jump at any chance to criticise us Ben.
l.
Weasel words.
Seriously read was a board member until a few days ago. But I see that now he's "left" you can use him as your attack dog and then deny any responsibility. If only all your tactics were so smart
I don't criticise the Trust non-stop. I've let a lot go in recent weeks and months as there were bigger things going on but it seems even the slighest criticism still upsets you and Kevin. Strange how of all the people being negative about this poll it was me you and Kevin choose to attack. The truth still hurts you and youre still in Group think mode
When you, and it is you, criticise the Museum you are losing the plot big time especially as you know very well there is a Trust board member on the Museum board and the Trust's own objectives mentions preserving the history of the club.
No one from the board has slated you despite your non stop jump at any chance to criticise us Ben.
Clem if Powell weren't being offered a deal the week prior I'd agree with some of what you say however he was. So to suggest he was fired due to results (despite being starved of funds for the last year) is somewhat hard to justify on that basis, in other words it wasnt purely reaction to his removal.
I didn't suggest he was sacked based on the results he was achieving. RD himself has gone on the record and stated that he was sacked as they couldn't agree on a recruitment\football strategy. The contract was withdrawn when it became clear he wasn't going to come round to RDs way of thinking.
I think there was a bit of both - CP showing no inclination to do things the Duchatelet way but without the results/form to back his own ideas up, unfortunately. If Powell's style was bringing in good results week in, week out then he could justify ignoring whatever 'suggestions' (however subtle/direct they may be) but that was not the case. The old argument amount what Powell would/could have done with backing was probably irrelevant a long time before he actually went - RD does not seem the kind of guy who would just let a manager spend as he wants, on who he wants. Rightly or wrongly, Powell was always going to end up either accepting RD's terms, or walking away with morals intact but no job. Nature of the football beast sad to say.
Not upset Ben stating facts, something you seem to be unable to do or keep up with one post to the next, but keep it up old son, and don't ever fix that broken record that is your little personal issue with me its all here in black and white and so productive.
The people who are more outraged at powell going are more likely to take part in a survey so that their feelings can be known. Those who were glad powell went are more likely not to fill in the survey as they couldnt care what the results are as you cannot change whats happened, or the people who wanted to wait and see after rigas first 5-6 games wouldnt have done the survey yet
Exactly my own position.
It was a decision that had to be made, and I certainly wasn't going to go near a survey that was gunning to obtain a result that was contrary to my own view.
On top of that when I saw the actual questions I thought they were quite banal and tried to turn some complex decision making processes into simplistic yes/no choices.
Now I know that the trust doesn't represent my views and would appear unlikely to be doing so in the near future I will give it a wide berth.
Razil - can you answer the following questions please 1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them? 2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious) 3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources? 4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal 5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
Razil - can you answer the following questions please 1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them? 2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious) 3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources? 4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal 5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
1. Ask the board, when they bother to contact us for this meeting. The results have been in the local newspaper, and created this debate, which is not clear cut, and not to get Chris Powell re-appointed. 2. Not sure it was that obvious why Powell was sacked?. Should the club not be questioned about this, and why if he was offered a new contracts were the issues so great they could not be resolved? 3. Valuable resources, Well as one of the people doing this I am happy to find out what fan's think, as I am still unclear of the new owner's 'vision'. My time, my choice I guess. 4. It is my understanding the member of the trust did object, that was present, and got the club to revise the plan as he has already reported. Having been to a supporters forum meeting as a trust member I certainly would have objected to the original idea of 'imposing' this idea. Pity as the marketing idea's did have some merit. 5. Seriously red as reported got the club to ammend the original proposal. I am not aware of any board member that would have supported this. I think that a petition was already up and running on h this site at the time.
Sorry, that the questions were so banal Lucky the cat, but I do agree the question of Powell's sacking is complex, as I am not entirely convinced we have heard the full reason for this. But as you state your view was to sack Powell. Not the majority view, from a sample of over 1200 fellow fan's. By the way I wish the new manager every success, because he is the manager of our club.
Razil - can you answer the following questions please 1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them? 2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious) 3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources? 4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal 5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
I wouldn't presume to speak for Razil, but I think the answers are probably:
1. The results of the survey (in particular the % of fans still unconvinced about the network model and the % of fans uncertain about buying a season ticket) have been brought to the club's attention. If nothing else, it will remind them that they still have a lot to do to win the PR battle.
2. There were some very emotional responses to the Powell sacking. The survey was able to quantify what people thought.
3. The Trust seeks to represent the views of supporters. Therefore it endeavours to keep itself informed of what supporters are thinking. As such it was a good use of resources.
4. The Trust (and the Fans Forum) did raise objections to the Crossbars proposal. What gives you the idea that it didn't ? The club listened to those objections but decided to proceed anyway.
5. No time. The proposal was withdrawn almost immediately
So the club listened to the trusts objections regarding the crossbars deal but proceeded with it anyway. Does that not give you a clue on what the current regime think of the trust? That is a genuine question by the way and it is not necessarily my view.
Ken, where did I say that it was my view that Powell should be sacked..??
Razil - can you answer the following questions please 1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them? 2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious) 3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources? 4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal 5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
1, A survey is a point in time, and can act as a comparison in the future, or as a reference point to inform further thinking and discussion. The survey also exists as evidence to demonstrate to fans that the Trust seeks the views of fans.
2, The sacking of Powell not for financial reasons, but for footballing disagreement ones, on the back of the football result at Sheffield United and the whole context surrounding that result, was a good point to ask fans how they felt about it because it may give indication regarding future support.
3, The people who work unpaid and in a voluntary capacity did the survey, those get off their arse people are indeed valuable resources, and they chose to use some of their get off their arse energy to do the survey amongst the other things they do.
4, I don't know, has there been a fans forum since the crossbars proposal?
5, See above, the get off their arse people conducted a survey they preferred to conduct, the Crossbars proposal market research ought to be in the compass of Ben Kensall oughtn't it?
Sorry for jumping in there as you addressed your questions to Razil, I realise that.
Having a trust is a good thing in my view. Having a museum is a good thing in my view. Having other groups and individuals being 'active' is a good thing in my view. Developing Sparrows Lane is a good thing in my view. Having KM and RD open to communication is a good thing in my view. Not getting relegated would be a good thing in my view.
People constantly getting a thrill by digging each other out left right and centre, provides entertainment for many in my view.
Seth Read question 2 again...the question was how people were feeling about why Powell got sacked not why I have not said the trust is a bad idea Your right, some people do get up off there arse and do things but so do others. I for one have not criticised the effort that these people do. I also do not get a thrill by digging anyone out
If people were feeling that the sacking of Powell was the end for the autonomous type manager at Charlton, and that made them feel negative, especially regarding their future support, then surely it was an appropriate thing to bring onto the table?
So the club listened to the trusts objections regarding the crossbars deal but proceeded with it anyway. Does that not give you a clue on what the current regime think of the trust? That is a genuine question by the way and it is not necessarily my view.
Ken, where did I say that it was my view that Powell should be sacked..??
Yes, Ben Kensall asked the Fans Forum (including The Trust) to have a meeting with him to give feedback on a number of proposals he had about changing the season ticket prices and arrangements for next season. Some of his proposals were welcomed and some were warned against. He subsequently amended / withdrew some of his proposals in the light of the feedback he received. but decided to proceed with the Crossbars one.
The clue I got was that he valued and respected the views expressed but was not convinced by the arguments against the Crossbars idea.
So the club listened to the trusts objections regarding the crossbars deal but proceeded with it anyway. Does that not give you a clue on what the current regime think of the trust? That is a genuine question by the way and it is not necessarily my view.
Must also give a clue about the view of the 'Fan's forum' as well then cafc...... as my colleague on the trust has posted almost in stereo it was also objected to by the supporters forum....... but the club still went ahead anyway!....... So they were informed by the trust rep, and the fan's forum?. So not 'just' the trust......
Ken, where did I say that it was my view that Powell should be sacked..??
Did not say you cafc....... I was answering 'lucky the cat'.........as I posted. Happy to answer a genuine question, come down to the stall, bring the 'cat' with you. "Sorry, that the questions were so banal Lucky the cat, but I do agree the question of Powell's sacking is complex, as I am not entirely convinced we have heard the full reason for this. But as you state your view was to sack Powell. Not the majority view, from a sample of over 1200 fellow fan's. By the way I wish the new manager every success, because he is the manager of our club".
Not upset Ben stating facts, something you seem to be unable to do or keep up with one post to the next, but keep it up old son, and don't ever fix that broken record that is your little personal issue with me its all here in black and white and so productive.
Wow, are you seriously running the trust? More professionalism needed IMO. Glad I'm not a member. Just saying.
I do and always have fully supported the idea of a museum for exactly the reasons mentioned, it featured due to my input in one of our early surveys but didn't get much support - I'm glad it got off the ground and am looking forward to seeing it, plus the Trust could even donate one or two items. The if you know your istory items on castrust.org were 'sponsored' by me and provided mainly by the talented Mr Stig
We are doing forward looking research as well as this Powell Poll. E.g. We have worked with cafc recently on the matchday experience survey and will hopefully get some news on that next week. Its a bit tricky as we haven't quite reestablished relations under the new owners to the degree we had under the previous crowd. Hopefully that is just a matter of time, and a great example of how the trust can work with cafc hopefully for the better.
On the Powell thing the way the sacking happened seemed very concerning to us and we wanted to see if fans felt as strongly as we did. I was told to expect good news on the topic earlier that week prior to the cup match, and that the new people were very pleased with CP. For the statement in the slp to then come out followed by the bizarre capitulation some felt on the Sunday then the sacking completely contradicted that
I will never apologise for listening and asking fans their views its part of the 'job'. people may not agree with the view that comes out of surveys but at the same time I'd prefer them to have their own view and I respect that too. We should always look at surveys in context and critique them. Same time we can't please everyone all the time.
On the consultation for season ticket thing it was an embargoed process, but i wasn't aware of the final decisions until the last minute, and as someone mentioned we did make a representation immediately which was acted on. I think in retrospect there should be a second stage where the proposals are aired publicly, i wasn't directly involved however.
Not upset Ben stating facts, something you seem to be unable to do or keep up with one post to the next, but keep it up old son, and don't ever fix that broken record that is your little personal issue with me its all here in black and white and so productive.
Wow, are you seriously running the trust? More professionalism needed IMO. Glad I'm not a member. Just saying.
I'm just an ordinary fan not a politician and a volunteer too, I say it as I see it and considering the amount of flak we get I am amazed anyone ever does anything for the club.
We have 1000 plus members and still growing 1700 subscribers and nearly 5000 in our network total. Think u can do better by all means step up to the plate. Just saying..
Honestly if I was razil I'd pack it in and not bother. Creating the trust and doing something to ultimately make it better being a charlton supporter and all you get is slagged off and character assassinations by people you don't really know or don't know at all on message boards.
How about parting with a fiver you cheap twerps and maybe the trust can run the way you want it to? Ah no, sitting at your keyboard and slagging it all off is a lot easier whilst you feel so much better than everyone. And don't think so high and mighty of yourself that by spending a fiver you're giving any kind of your own fabricated political capital behind it. Your voice is just as loud as some bloke who isn't a big name on a message board.
No one from the board has slated you despite your non stop jump at any chance to criticise us Ben.
l.
Weasel words.
Seriously read was a board member until a few days ago. But I see that now he's "left" you can use him as your attack dog and then deny any responsibility. If only all your tactics were so smart
I don't criticise the Trust non-stop. I've let a lot go in recent weeks and months as there were bigger things going on but it seems even the slighest criticism still upsets you and Kevin. Strange how of all the people being negative about this poll it was me you and Kevin choose to attack. The truth still hurts you and youre still in Group think mode
When you, and it is you, criticise the Museum you are losing the plot big time especially as you know very well there is a Trust board member on the Museum board and the Trust's own objectives mentions preserving the history of the club.
You really do want it both ways don't you Henry? You set yourself up by suggesting that surveys "looking backward" should stop. While at the same time being involved in setting up a museum that will be doing exactly the same thing!
Personally I think that some are belittling the views of the hundreds of supporters who thought the survey was relevant not just to the Trust but to them as individuals who were looking for a platform to get their views across.
I didn't do the survey but I understand entirely that the Trust see surveys of this type as providing the Trust with useful data. These data will inform the Trust on the thinking of their members and will assist them to consider how best to progress in the medium term.
In addition the whole concept of "know your customer" (and potential customer) applies to the Trust as well as businesses in general. Having information on the views of supporters can only be a good thing.
(I am also supportive of the concept of a Charlton Museum. But I am realistic enough to understand that it is little more than a vanity project of little interest to anyone apart from the small(ish) Charlton fan base.)
A lot of the criticism of this poll comes from people who obviously don't like the result. They should have voted and made their voices heard. And how do people think the Trust is going to be able to let the board know what fans are thinking if they don't ask them? However, in the interest of 'balance', I do think it would be interesting to have another poll at the end of the season to see if people have changed their minds about the issues - that would show that the Trust really wants to represent the fans' mood and that there's no 'agenda'.
Lol no, people just don't see what difference it makes having the poll... As if you will have any influence with it on Roland in the future.
A lot of the criticism of this poll comes from people who obviously don't like the result. They should have voted and made their voices heard. And how do people think the Trust is going to be able to let the board know what fans are thinking if they don't ask them? However, in the interest of 'balance', I do think it would be interesting to have another poll at the end of the season to see if people have changed their minds about the issues - that would show that the Trust really wants to represent the fans' mood and that there's no 'agenda'.
Lol no, people just don't see what difference it makes having the poll... As if you will have any influence with it on Roland in the future.
Please stop this type of thing - it's totally pointless - nothing will change... Find something else to do with your vast spare time
Too right, what a bunch of wasters trying to find out what people think about the way their football club is run when they could be injecting Bovril or out setting light to pensioners. Stop this type of thing.
Really can't be arsed to read back though this thread apart from having digs at one another, what's its the poll got to do with the museum? The poll isn't really gonna change anything (that's why people see it as pointless)
Let's be honest no one understands if the G21 or trust are working together anyway
Am I the only one here that thinks that both the Trust and the Museum are really positive initiatives*?
The Trust has had some remarkable achievements in its short life: Its membership and reach, ACV Status, free ticket initiative, and the polls. In terms of finding out what Charlton fans really think, it is second only to Charlton Life in my opinion. Please note, that is not meant as a sideswipe, it's actually a huge compliment. I find it odd that people moan about the polls because they won't change anything. What poll ever did? There's a range of reasons for polling opinions; from inspiring and justifying action, to policy formation, right down to pure and simple curiosity. I don't think anyone has ever run a poll because they thought it would change the things in and of itself. So, why would anyone expect the Trust's surveys to do so?
The Museum has gathered some fascinating artefacts and memorabilia and has done well to secure accommodation at The Valley. I can't wait to see it when it's opens. In the meantime, the website already has some excellent resource information.
It's therefore sad for me to see the people at the forefront of these initiatives squabbling in public. I've no idea what it's about and nor do I want to know. It strikes me that the Trust and the Museum could do we'll to work together. Perhaps there could be some joint venture. For example, is there not some way that the Trust could use its polling prowess to find information that would be of interest to the Museum (perhaps earliest memories, or greatest moments). Something like that could be of benefit to both organisations and the wider Charlton supporting community as well.
*Rhetorical question, obviously I know that Ken does because he's put so much work into both, as perhaps many others have.
NeedMoreGrass said: Not upset Ben stating facts, something you seem to be unable to do or keep up with one post to the next, but keep it up old son, and don't ever fix that broken record that is your little personal issue with me its all here in black and white and so productive.
Wow, are you seriously running the trust? More professionalism needed IMO. Glad I'm not a member. Just saying.
I'm just an ordinary fan not a politician and a volunteer too, I say it as I see it and considering the amount of flak we get I am amazed anyone ever does anything for the club.
We have 1000 plus members and still growing 1700 subscribers and nearly 5000 in our network total. Think u can do better by all means step up to the plate. Just saying..
Impressive figures indeed but it is you who stepped into the light not I. Now that you are there and have significant support perhaps you could show more respect to fans who don't toe your line. Also a bit of respect for the previous board ,instead of calling them a "crowd" , wouldn't go amiss either regardless of whether they were good or not. IMO its a complete lack of professional . If other fans have criticisms perhaps it's best to let them slide on by instead of trying to score points off it. You might learn something from someone like Katrien Meire who treats all fans with respect in a public arena, whether they have earned it or not.That's what good leadership is about. Just saying.
The other guys on the Board have hopefully dealt with some of the issues raised, but I would like to say something general, not least to say a word for Razil. He has worked his butt off, I am sure his family life suffers as a result, and he is a human being like all of us. Nobody asked him to do this, but I for one am grateful he has done it. There have been two previous attempts to form a Trust, both ended in failure. This one on the other hand is now bigger that the Swansea Trust in terms of paying members, and i am hoping to get more data from Supporters Direct.
And btw, the numbers a re important, not so we can congratulate ourselves, but because they tell the Board that as representatives of the fans, we are one of the stronger Trusts in the country.
We do surveys for the same reason. At some point when we finally sit down with KM And hopefully one day RD, we will be offeringviews. We are able to demonstrate that they are not our views as individuals but the views of a representative sample of the fan base. Furthermore, they provide the club with a source of market research that we fear may have been lost to them when they parted company with employees who had previously been responsible for gathering such research.
Technically people can always snipe at the surveys while they are not random sampled responses, but such a technique can only be done professionally and at great expense. We do have a Trust member whose knowledge of market research is at the very highest level and have sought her guidance at various times.
I would also like to mention that seriously_red leaves us having done a prodigious amount of work in his spare time, often at 2 in the morning judging by his mails, and he too is a family man.
We have a programme ready to help engage everybody in defining what the "key questions" are for the Board, we will run that as soon as we know that a meeting is in the diary. Of course it will mainly seek to involve Trust members, but we hope it will involve CL too, we are in discussion with admin about it.
Finally the use of the phrase "going forward" is banned from all Trust comms.:-)
You're more than just a normal fan, you're the chairman of the trust and therefore represent the trust whilst posting here, imo.
Getting into personal spats reflects badly on the trust, as does the group attack mentality any criticism is met with.
All just my opinion of course.
Load of bollocks. I don't blame the siege mentality when they are constantly criticised. Razil is not running a corporate company. He can say what he likes as far as I'm concerned.
In another thread about Tony Benn there is some sniping about his life on what should be a RIP thread.
I can understand why people have strong opinions about Benn and Thatcher ( as indeed I do ) and Charlton Life is broad enough to provide us with a forum to say what they feel, which as long as it does not become personal I think is healthy.
What I don't understand is the factions involved here about Charlton which is after all the common interest we all have. I joined the Trust and think broadly Barney is doing a good job . I also believe Ben Hayes has instigated a valuable project in creating the museum. What I find odd is the politicking that is going on. What does it achieve?
In terms of the survey I was one of SCP's 79% .If asked that question at the end of the season I may well answer differently. Personally I now think Riga has brought a freshness which now gives a better chance of survival than Chris would have done.
Comments
Seriously read was a board member until a few days ago. But I see that now he's "left" you can use him as your attack dog and then deny any responsibility. If only all your tactics were so smart
I don't criticise the Trust non-stop. I've let a lot go in recent weeks and months as there were bigger things going on but it seems even the slighest criticism still upsets you and Kevin. Strange how of all the people being negative about this poll it was me you and Kevin choose to attack. The truth still hurts you and youre still in Group think mode
When you, and it is you, criticise the Museum you are losing the plot big time especially as you know very well there is a Trust board member on the Museum board and the Trust's own objectives mentions preserving the history of the club.
It was a decision that had to be made, and I certainly wasn't going to go near a survey that was gunning to obtain a result that was contrary to my own view.
On top of that when I saw the actual questions I thought they were quite banal and tried to turn some complex decision making processes into simplistic yes/no choices.
Now I know that the trust doesn't represent my views and would appear unlikely to be doing so in the near future I will give it a wide berth.
1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them?
2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious)
3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources?
4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal
5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
1-Now you have the results from the survey, what do you intend to do with them?
2-Why did the trust carry out a survey on how people were feeling when Powell got sacked? (I thought it was pretty obvious)
3-Do you think doing the survey was a good use to valuable resources?
4-Why did the trust not raise objections during the fans forum to the very unpopular crossbars season ticket proposal
5-Why did the trust not do a survey for the crossbars season ticket proposal to gauge what fans thought?
1. Ask the board, when they bother to contact us for this meeting. The results have been in the local newspaper, and created this debate, which is not clear cut, and not to get Chris Powell
re-appointed.
2. Not sure it was that obvious why Powell was sacked?. Should the club not be questioned about this, and why if he was offered a new contracts were the issues so great they could not be resolved?
3. Valuable resources, Well as one of the people doing this I am happy to find out what fan's think, as I am still unclear of the new owner's 'vision'. My time, my choice I guess.
4. It is my understanding the member of the trust did object, that was present, and got the club to revise the plan as he has already reported. Having been to a supporters forum meeting as a trust member I certainly would have objected to the original idea of 'imposing' this idea. Pity as the marketing idea's did have some merit.
5. Seriously red as reported got the club to ammend the original proposal. I am not aware of any board member that would have supported this. I think that a petition was already up and running on h this site at the time.
Sorry, that the questions were so banal Lucky the cat, but I do agree the question of Powell's sacking is complex, as I am not entirely convinced we have heard the full reason for this.
But as you state your view was to sack Powell. Not the majority view, from a sample of over 1200 fellow fan's. By the way I wish the new manager every success, because he is the manager of our club.
1. The results of the survey (in particular the % of fans still unconvinced about the network model and the % of fans uncertain about buying a season ticket) have been brought to the club's attention. If nothing else, it will remind them that they still have a lot to do to win the PR battle.
2. There were some very emotional responses to the Powell sacking. The survey was able to quantify what people thought.
3. The Trust seeks to represent the views of supporters. Therefore it endeavours to keep itself informed of what supporters are thinking. As such it was a good use of resources.
4. The Trust (and the Fans Forum) did raise objections to the Crossbars proposal. What gives you the idea that it didn't ? The club listened to those objections but decided to proceed anyway.
5. No time. The proposal was withdrawn almost immediately
Ken, where did I say that it was my view that Powell should be sacked..??
2, The sacking of Powell not for financial reasons, but for footballing disagreement ones, on the back of the football result at Sheffield United and the whole context surrounding that result, was a good point to ask fans how they felt about it because it may give indication regarding future support.
3, The people who work unpaid and in a voluntary capacity did the survey, those get off their arse people are indeed valuable resources, and they chose to use some of their get off their arse energy to do the survey amongst the other things they do.
4, I don't know, has there been a fans forum since the crossbars proposal?
5, See above, the get off their arse people conducted a survey they preferred to conduct, the Crossbars proposal market research ought to be in the compass of Ben Kensall oughtn't it?
Sorry for jumping in there as you addressed your questions to Razil, I realise that.
Having a trust is a good thing in my view.
Having a museum is a good thing in my view.
Having other groups and individuals being 'active' is a good thing in my view.
Developing Sparrows Lane is a good thing in my view.
Having KM and RD open to communication is a good thing in my view.
Not getting relegated would be a good thing in my view.
People constantly getting a thrill by digging each other out left right and centre, provides entertainment for many in my view.
Read question 2 again...the question was how people were feeling about why Powell got sacked not why
I have not said the trust is a bad idea
Your right, some people do get up off there arse and do things but so do others. I for one have not criticised the effort that these people do.
I also do not get a thrill by digging anyone out
If people were feeling that the sacking of Powell was the end for the autonomous type manager at Charlton, and that made them feel negative, especially regarding their future support, then surely it was an appropriate thing to bring onto the table?
The clue I got was that he valued and respected the views expressed but was not convinced by the arguments against the Crossbars idea.
"Sorry, that the questions were so banal Lucky the cat, but I do agree the question of Powell's sacking is complex, as I am not entirely convinced we have heard the full reason for this.
But as you state your view was to sack Powell. Not the majority view, from a sample of over 1200 fellow fan's. By the way I wish the new manager every success, because he is the manager of our club".
Wow, are you seriously running the trust? More professionalism needed IMO. Glad I'm not a member. Just saying.
I do and always have fully supported the idea of a museum for exactly the reasons mentioned, it featured due to my input in one of our early surveys but didn't get much support - I'm glad it got off the ground and am looking forward to seeing it, plus the Trust could even donate one or two items. The if you know your istory items on castrust.org were 'sponsored' by me and provided mainly by the talented Mr Stig
We are doing forward looking research as well as this Powell Poll. E.g. We have worked with cafc recently on the matchday experience survey and will hopefully get some news on that next week. Its a bit tricky as we haven't quite reestablished relations under the new owners to the degree we had under the previous crowd. Hopefully that is just a matter of time, and a great example of how the trust can work with cafc hopefully for the better.
On the Powell thing the way the sacking happened seemed very concerning to us and we wanted to see if fans felt as strongly as we did. I was told to expect good news on the topic earlier that week prior to the cup match, and that the new people were very pleased with CP. For the statement in the slp to then come out followed by the bizarre capitulation some felt on the Sunday then the sacking completely contradicted that
I will never apologise for listening and asking fans their views its part of the 'job'. people may not agree with the view that comes out of surveys but at the same time I'd prefer them to have their own view and I respect that too. We should always look at surveys in context and critique them. Same time we can't please everyone all the time.
On the consultation for season ticket thing it was an embargoed process, but i wasn't aware of the final decisions until the last minute, and as someone mentioned we did make a representation immediately which was acted on. I think in retrospect there should be a second stage where the proposals are aired publicly, i wasn't directly involved however.
We have 1000 plus members and still growing 1700 subscribers and nearly 5000 in our network total. Think u can do better by all means step up to the plate. Just saying..
Getting into personal spats reflects badly on the trust, as does the group attack mentality any criticism is met with.
All just my opinion of course.
How about parting with a fiver you cheap twerps and maybe the trust can run the way you want it to? Ah no, sitting at your keyboard and slagging it all off is a lot easier whilst you feel so much better than everyone. And don't think so high and mighty of yourself that by spending a fiver you're giving any kind of your own fabricated political capital behind it. Your voice is just as loud as some bloke who isn't a big name on a message board.
You really do want it both ways don't you Henry? You set yourself up by suggesting that surveys "looking backward" should stop. While at the same time being involved in setting up a museum that will be doing exactly the same thing!
Personally I think that some are belittling the views of the hundreds of supporters who thought the survey was relevant not just to the Trust but to them as individuals who were looking for a platform to get their views across.
I didn't do the survey but I understand entirely that the Trust see surveys of this type as providing the Trust with useful data. These data will inform the Trust on the thinking of their members and will assist them to consider how best to progress in the medium term.
In addition the whole concept of "know your customer" (and potential customer) applies to the Trust as well as businesses in general. Having information on the views of supporters can only be a good thing.
(I am also supportive of the concept of a Charlton Museum. But I am realistic enough to understand that it is little more than a vanity project of little interest to anyone apart from the small(ish) Charlton fan base.)
Let's be honest no one understands if the G21 or trust are working together anyway
The Trust has had some remarkable achievements in its short life: Its membership and reach, ACV Status, free ticket initiative, and the polls. In terms of finding out what Charlton fans really think, it is second only to Charlton Life in my opinion. Please note, that is not meant as a sideswipe, it's actually a huge compliment. I find it odd that people moan about the polls because they won't change anything. What poll ever did? There's a range of reasons for polling opinions; from inspiring and justifying action, to policy formation, right down to pure and simple curiosity. I don't think anyone has ever run a poll because they thought it would change the things in and of itself. So, why would anyone expect the Trust's surveys to do so?
The Museum has gathered some fascinating artefacts and memorabilia and has done well to secure accommodation at The Valley. I can't wait to see it when it's opens. In the meantime, the website already has some excellent resource information.
It's therefore sad for me to see the people at the forefront of these initiatives squabbling in public. I've no idea what it's about and nor do I want to know. It strikes me that the Trust and the Museum could do we'll to work together. Perhaps there could be some joint venture. For example, is there not some way that the Trust could use its polling prowess to find information that would be of interest to the Museum (perhaps earliest memories, or greatest moments). Something like that could be of benefit to both organisations and the wider Charlton supporting community as well.
*Rhetorical question, obviously I know that Ken does because he's put so much work into both, as perhaps many others have.
Not upset Ben stating facts, something you seem to be unable to do or keep up with one post to the next, but keep it up old son, and don't ever fix that broken record that is your little personal issue with me its all here in black and white and so productive.
Wow, are you seriously running the trust? More professionalism needed IMO. Glad I'm not a member. Just saying.
I'm just an ordinary fan not a politician and a volunteer too, I say it as I see it and considering the amount of flak we get I am amazed anyone ever does anything for the club.
We have 1000 plus members and still growing 1700 subscribers and nearly 5000 in our network total. Think u can do better by all means step up to the plate. Just saying..
Impressive figures indeed but it is you who stepped into the light not I. Now that you are there and have significant support perhaps you could show more respect to fans who don't toe your line. Also a bit of respect for the previous board ,instead of calling them a "crowd" , wouldn't go amiss either regardless of whether they were good or not.
IMO its a complete lack of professional . If other fans have criticisms perhaps it's best to let them slide on by instead of trying to score points off it.
You might learn something from someone like Katrien Meire who treats all fans with respect in a public arena, whether they have earned it or not.That's what good leadership is about.
Just saying.
The other guys on the Board have hopefully dealt with some of the issues raised, but I would like to say something general, not least to say a word for Razil. He has worked his butt off, I am sure his family life suffers as a result, and he is a human being like all of us. Nobody asked him to do this, but I for one am grateful he has done it. There have been two previous attempts to form a Trust, both ended in failure. This one on the other hand is now bigger that the Swansea Trust in terms of paying members, and i am hoping to get more data from Supporters Direct.
And btw, the numbers a re important, not so we can congratulate ourselves, but because they tell the Board that as representatives of the fans, we are one of the stronger Trusts in the country.
We do surveys for the same reason. At some point when we finally sit down with KM And hopefully one day RD, we will be offeringviews. We are able to demonstrate that they are not our views as individuals but the views of a representative sample of the fan base. Furthermore, they provide the club with a source of market research that we fear may have been lost to them when they parted company with employees who had previously been responsible for gathering such research.
Technically people can always snipe at the surveys while they are not random sampled responses, but such a technique can only be done professionally and at great expense. We do have a Trust member whose knowledge of market research is at the very highest level and have sought her guidance at various times.
I would also like to mention that seriously_red leaves us having done a prodigious amount of work in his spare time, often at 2 in the morning judging by his mails, and he too is a family man.
We have a programme ready to help engage everybody in defining what the "key questions" are for the Board, we will run that as soon as we know that a meeting is in the diary. Of course it will mainly seek to involve Trust members, but we hope it will involve CL too, we are in discussion with admin about it.
Finally the use of the phrase "going forward" is banned from all Trust comms.:-)
Trust members, well done for all your hard work. Keep it up.
I can understand why people have strong opinions about Benn and Thatcher ( as indeed I do ) and Charlton Life is broad enough to provide us with a forum to say what they feel, which as long as it does not become personal I think is healthy.
What I don't understand is the factions involved here about Charlton which is after all the common interest we all have. I joined the Trust and think broadly Barney is doing a good job . I also believe Ben Hayes has instigated a valuable project in creating the museum. What I find odd is the politicking that is going on. What does it achieve?
In terms of the survey I was one of SCP's 79% .If asked that question at the end of the season I may well answer differently. Personally I now think Riga has brought a freshness which now gives a better chance of survival than Chris would have done.