i dont understand how anyone can say the transfer policy is just network players, can someone remind me which network club PP played for? or i know we didnt get him but max gradel who we had an offer excepted for?
Yes you are missing something. What are the circumstances in which he arrived in the first place? Surely even you, when asked at the beginning of the transfer window, which positions we needed to strengthen, did not answer "goalkeeper"
Well did you?
Of course Hamer was injured but apparently we have two very good young keepers on our books.
Of all the moves in the window, this one remains the most bizarre in my mind. Not least because it was the first one.
There was a "rumour" god forbid, going around that a club or clubs were interested in taking Hamer.....hence the keeper coming in. As it happens that then unsettled Alnwicks agent which isn't surprising really and the events then unfolded. We don't know either, if either of the keepers had been offered contracts at that time which they found unappealing. It looks like contracts are and have been offered to players like Jacko and Wiggins, I wouldn't be surprised if many others were under negotiation with agents playing a big part with their own pockets at heart with the prospect of big signing on fee percentages with out of contract players.
Not just a rumour that was one of the three at the VIP meeting stating there were issues on the goalkeeping side with both senior keepers wanting to know about prospects. To me the only dissapointment on transfer dealings is that we couldn't land Obika or someone else earlier. And that with Solly out for so long we have been relying on Wilson + 1 on the right hand side. Sometimes that "+1" has not been so good to put it mildly.
PS I'd expect that Chris Powell has been paid off and signed some kind of compromise agreement. Or that this is being organised. Doubt he'll say anything in public that isn't agreed with the Club.
The Settlement Agreement would have been finalised and signed sometime before the agreed statement was released by the LMA - that's the order of things in these matters.
I find your suggestion of how the conversation may have gone between CP and RD very plausible i.e. 'why are you not playing Thuram' rather than 'play Thuram'.
I find it very hard to believe that Duchatelet was telling Chris Powell who to play. He appears to be far too intelligent, thoughtful and experienced to make such a basic management error. Moreover, what was the objective? I can very readily believe, however, that Duchatelet was giving Chris Powell a hard time, pressing him to explain why he wasn't playing Thuram and others, but that's a subtly and significantly different situation. It would, nevertheless, be entirely consistent with Powell telling people that Duchatelet wanted him to play Thuram. He may even have felt he was being pressurised.
It's important to bear in mind that this discussion about team selection may well have been taking place against the background of two important factors.
First, I suspect that Duchatelet, or more accurately his advisors, seriously underestimated the standard of play in the Championship and assumed that the players "sent" to Charlton would make a difference. Perhaps they just screwed up, but its understandable that when these players weren't being selected Duchatelet wanted to know why not.
Second, it's entirely plausible that Duchatelet wasn't sure he could trust Powell. "Is it true that these players don't warrant a place in the side or is Powell just making a point?", is a question Duchatelet may have been asking. This uncertainty, perhaps even a suspicion, would have increased the tension at a time when there were probably difficult conversations about transfer policy and the independent reports Duchatelet was receiving about the team's performances, for example.
I'm not at all surprised that Jose Riga has picked Ben Hamer ahead of Thuram as did Powell. Both men have made decisions they thought were right and not unexpectedly they've agreed on this one. There's no pressure on Riga though. Duchatelet has no reason to doubt him.
This interpretation would suggest that the tension around player selection was unnecessary and unfortunate, but perhaps nobody's fault. I doubt very much that it's why Powell was sacked though.
If we simply take Duchatelet's statement about Powell at face value then the explanation is a very simple one. Powell wanted more control over footballing matters than Duchatelet was prepared to give him. Credit to Powell for not accepting a job he wasn't really comfortable with and credit to Duchatelet for making the right decision for the Club, despite it's obvious unpopularity. It was the right decision because ongoing disagreement and tension, potentially preventing either Powell or Duchatelet running the Club in the way they wanted, was not in the interests of the Club in the medium term. Camels, horses and committees spring to mind. Again, this interpretation is consistent with Duchatelet respecting Powell as a coach and wanting him to stay on, but only on his terms, of course.
We don't know what's really going on - or at least I don't - but based on the information in the public domain it does seem to me that everything we've seen so far, the arrival of players from Standard Liege, albeit perhaps ill-judged, the sales of Kermorgant and Stephens and the sacking of Chris Powell were logical and rational decisions all made, in Duchatelet's view, in the best interests of Charlton Athletic. And only Charlton Athletic. There is no real evidence of any other agenda, let alone anything sinister.
I'm not suggesting that there is no reason for concern. It's far from clear how the network will add value, for example, and there has to be a risk that the philosophical belief that it is possible to succeed without losing significant sums of money, at least initially, will lead to failure. However, as I have posted elsewhere, if that happens it seems to me that it will be more a case of the mad professor who blows up his own laboratory than Dr Evil.
To those who hold a different view or, alternatively, are much more suspicious I'd ask two questions. Genuine questions. First, what is the economic logic of buying Charlton as a feeder Club for Standard Liege? How would such a plan actually work? Second, what is the logic of buying Charlton and then forcing the Club to play loanees from Standard Liege who aren't good enough to play on merit. How does that help anybody? Chelsea currently have around 25 players out on loan, all across Europe, at Clubs selected for each player. Why can't Standard use the loan market if they want surplus players to play?
PS I'd expect that Chris Powell has been paid off and signed some kind of compromise agreement. Or that this is being organised. Doubt he'll say anything in public that isn't agreed with the Club.
Very good post.
I am still concerned by the Liege guy who said that if there are players not good enough to play in the Liege team, they go to Charlton to get experience. Now I know that is what clubs do, what we have done with Pope at York for example. It suggests to me, not so much the feeder club idea, but more the reserve idea, to be a proving ground for players. It was always nice if you could win the Football Combination, but at the end of the day where you finished in the combination was no biggie. If we are obliged to play players from other network clubs to train them up, and maybe ship them on, where do the results matter? Yes it would be nice if this experiment got us results, even success, but maybe the thought is that if Charlton are developing the players then results are no biggie as long as those players have added value. I would love to be rid of this concern, and would love to think that success for Charlton was absolutely the overarching aim here. Events obviously will indicate the direction of the network, but activities at Charlton may be clouded by the notion I (and others?) have that decisions are not necessarily going to be geared towards success.
The thing is Seth, I believe what has been said already, that those at SL believed that their reserves would, literally, year up the second division in English football. I suspect that they would look world class in the Belgian second division. In fact, there is a chance that they would walk into the first team at most of the second divisions around Europe.
It just happens that the Championship is stronger than some of the first divisions in Europe. I am disappointed to think that those that own our club could have made such a bad judgement call, but maybe they, really did. The two permanent signings from other clubs could have been for the same reason - they could have been scouted for SL and thought not quite good enough, but young enough so it was decided that they would be good enough for Charlton, who are only in the second division in England. It is my best guess that SL would struggle to finish mid-table in the Premier League, and could easily get relegated and then be in the same division as us.
Clearly this is all speculation, but if any of it is even remotely close to the truth Mundell is right on the money when he says it's possible "...that the tension around player selection was unnecessary and unfortunate, but perhaps nobody's fault. I doubt very much that it's why Powell was sacked though."
If that is the case I can see why RD doesn't feel the need to justify himself as he has just made a few miscalculations. He did say something along the lines of player signings not always working, so there is some recognition that we have, perhaps, brought in players that are not good enough.
AB why though are you more concerned about RD than TJ and MS and why was there not the need to rally a group as strong as the G21 back then
Firstly, I think there's an assumption that I brought the group together. In fact, I was asked by some other names on the list to take a lead. I said I would only be involved if there was a broad-based group that was so wide it could not reasonably be accused of pursuing a narrow agenda, wanting to damage the club
Rick, do you not in hindsight think that advocating a boycott on season tickets is a direct way of damaging the club?
AB why though are you more concerned about RD than TJ and MS and why was there not the need to rally a group as strong as the G21 back then
Firstly, I think there's an assumption that I brought the group together. In fact, I was asked by some other names on the list to take a lead. I said I would only be involved if there was a broad-based group that was so wide it could not reasonably be accused of pursuing a narrow agenda, wanting to damage the club
Rick, do you not in hindsight think that advocating a boycott on season tickets is a direct way of damaging the club?
..and in other news, it turns out bears shit in woods.
Yes you are missing something. What are the circumstances in which he arrived in the first place? Surely even you, when asked at the beginning of the transfer window, which positions we needed to strengthen, did not answer "goalkeeper"
Well did you?
Of course Hamer was injured but apparently we have two very good young keepers on our books.
Of all the moves in the window, this one remains the most bizarre in my mind. Not least because it was the first one.
There was a "rumour" god forbid, going around that a club or clubs were interested in taking Hamer.....hence the keeper coming in. As it happens that then unsettled Alnwicks agent which isn't surprising really and the events then unfolded. We don't know either, if either of the keepers had been offered contracts at that time which they found unappealing. It looks like contracts are and have been offered to players like Jacko and Wiggins, I wouldn't be surprised if many others were under negotiation with agents playing a big part with their own pockets at heart with the prospect of big signing on fee percentages with out of contract players.
@TEL I realise you are trying to help me, so please dont take this as picking an argument. I'm just confused now. You believe that they brought in Thuram because they thought they were going to get a (decent money) offer for Hamer?
I can see that Thuram arriving, unsettled Alnwick. I'm not surprised by that. I'm just not sure I buy this thing about Hamer, who was injured after all. Why not wait until such an offer materialised, before bringing in Thuram? Wages for three keepers? Thought he wants to break even.
It more looks to me like a case of "I have this spare keeper, so I'm bringing him over here, so you will have to get shot of either Hamer or Alnwick". Because THAT of course would save on wages, if you are looking at wages from a Group point of view rather than just CAFC wages....
If of course Thuram shows us that he can become a good keeper, then I will see the sense of it all. Bit of a big "if" right now. I have not seen him, and respect NLA's spirited defence of him. However one fact is that I have never, since CL started, read such a stream of mockery of one of our players, from other teams' fans
Thuram has already caused some controversy. There was talk of litigation as his attempts to transfer to S Liege had not been agreed by his club or his agent. That appears to have been sorted out and S Liege paid 2 million Euros for him. Thuram is reported as saying the following ......
"It's a taste that I have lost in recent months, I miss it," says Yohann Thuram. "Before coming here, I had a long discussion with the leadership of the Standard. The purpose of my loan to Charlton is to find playing time to come back stronger next season in Standard and restart on a sound basis. I signed up for four years in Standard, it is not for nothing. My goal is to impose myself as the owner. "
Yes you are missing something. What are the circumstances in which he arrived in the first place? Surely even you, when asked at the beginning of the transfer window, which positions we needed to strengthen, did not answer "goalkeeper"
Well did you?
Of course Hamer was injured but apparently we have two very good young keepers on our books.
Of all the moves in the window, this one remains the most bizarre in my mind. Not least because it was the first one.
There was a "rumour" god forbid, going around that a club or clubs were interested in taking Hamer.....hence the keeper coming in. As it happens that then unsettled Alnwicks agent which isn't surprising really and the events then unfolded. We don't know either, if either of the keepers had been offered contracts at that time which they found unappealing. It looks like contracts are and have been offered to players like Jacko and Wiggins, I wouldn't be surprised if many others were under negotiation with agents playing a big part with their own pockets at heart with the prospect of big signing on fee percentages with out of contract players.
@TEL I realise you are trying to help me, so please dont take this as picking an argument. I'm just confused now. You believe that they brought in Thuram because they thought they were going to get a (decent money) offer for Hamer?
I can see that Thuram arriving, unsettled Alnwick. I'm not surprised by that. I'm just not sure I buy this thing about Hamer, who was injured after all. Why not wait until such an offer materialised, before bringing in Thuram? Wages for three keepers? Thought he wants to break even.
It more looks to me like a case of "I have this spare keeper, so I'm bringing him over here, so you will have to get shot of either Hamer or Alnwick". Because THAT of course would save on wages, if you are looking at wages from a Group point of view rather than just CAFC wages....
If of course Thuram shows us that he can become a good keeper, then I will see the sense of it all. Bit of a big "if" right now. I have not seen him, and respect NLA's spirited defence of him. However one fact is that I have never, since CL started, read such a stream of mockery of one of our players, from other teams' fans
Its ok, Im not looking for an arguement either. As random as rumours are, that's what I heard....Hamer was under consideration by someone or other, and I think Thuram was seen as cover and someone who would fit into the under 21 development squad as an over age player. Its pure conjecture that Alnwick and or Hamer were in contract negotiations....but Id be surprised if they hadnt al least sat down with the new staff. CP himself said when Alnwick left that it had been on the suggestion of his agent that they considered taking him somewhere to get 1st team football....I couldnt see CP guaranteeing him being 1st choice or any other manager in the same situation. And secondly yes I can well believe that Hamer would have achieved a fee much the same way that Kermo and Stephens did...cant see why not can you? His injury wasnt serious after all.
I take the point re the desultory comments from other fans, but people like Francis and Kermo got pelters from other fans....look at what the Leicester fans did after "that" penalty miss.....you would have thought we had re-signed Djimi Traore :-)
Fulham were interested in Hamer, but there was such uncertainity at who was going to in charge at the cottage that things never really went from interest, but you can bet your arse that Hamers agent knew about what could transpire, plus do not underestimate the impact of the contract situation all the players were in
but if you only have 2 keepers , Hamer, Alnwick and both could leave for free at the end of the season , or someone says I will give you x amount now, would it not be worth having another one who has been transferred for 2 million euros in his last move to be one of the two and let one of them go
Fulham were interested in Hamer, but there was such uncertainity at who was going to in charge at the cottage that things never really went from interest, but you can bet your arse that Hamers agent knew about what could transpire, plus do not underestimate the impact of the contract situation all the players were in
but if you only have 2 keepers , Hamer, Alnwick and both could leave for free at the end of the season , or someone says I will give you x amount now, would it not be worth having another one who has been transferred for 2 million euros in his last move to be one of the two and let one of them go
no one says they cant be shit but Oohaah if you were offered a relegation candidates keeper for free or a keeper deemed to be worth 2 million euros honestly who would you take
Alnwick done superb for us I thought honestly he was better than hamer, too me Hamer and Thuram are pretty similar , Both have issues with what they do in the sticks , hamer has had several threads of his own where opinion has been divided as to his ability and worth
the thing with Thuram is that people made their ,mind up before he played that it was an indication RD picked the team and any error or thing he done that was different to the norm was exaggerated
for example had Thuram nearly given the ball to the sheff utd striker like hamer did there would have been calls for his deportation
and lets not even mention the fact hamer failed to make more than one pass with his distribution that game also
ultimately the decision was right Alnwick wont be back this season and that would've happened anyway even if he stayed with us and Hamer is still a quality shot stopper but an average goalie
Chris Powell has explained Charlton’s decision to sell Ben Alnwick to Leyton Orient.
Alnwick was allowed to leave on deadline day in a move that shocked supporters because he was the club’s first-choice goalkeeper.
The 27-year-old had fewer than six months left on his contract and Powell has revealed he was not given assurances over a new deal.
The Charlton manager said: “The fans have every right to think that is a little bit confusing but sadly we have not been able to give him a guarantee [of a new contract].
“I wanted to keep him but his advisor said there was interest from Orient, who are going well in League One. Of course, I was not entirely happy with it.”
maybe we thought we could do better in our search for a new full time keeper next season
I think it's a priority thing and I don't believe keeper was our priority but it somehow turned in to one And I'm sure the fact that Alnwick (free) was SCP 's first choice when Thuram (€2m) was also available so I'd prefer the manager to be choosing his keepers than someone who is advising Roland and (I'm clearly guessing) may have been the same football adviser who made the mistake of encouraging Roland to spend €2m on Thuram in the first place and is trying to save face. No idea when Alnwicks problems came to light but he was doing a more than decent job and Hamer as back up with Pope as emergency cover would appear to be decent and cheapish options for a club like us Thuram got away with numerous flaps/ scuffed punches at Wigan and because it didn't lead to a goal nothing was seen by the wider audience and the QPR pass was another monster error that he got away with but there was a bigger Charlton audience to witness it Hamer has his faults but to me is definitely, for now, a lot better option than Thuram but with the Alnwick situation a bit cloudy it did seem an odd "forced" signing at the time
I think the 2 million price tag was offered as Troye were very upset over the manner in which Thuran had made himself available. Thuran didn't want to be relegated so ignored his contract and his agent and did his own thing. ( subject to Googlese )The talk of litigation disappeared so perhaps the price tag was in fact a compensatory sum?
Thuram has already caused some controversy. There was talk of litigation as his attempts to transfer to S Liege had not been agreed by his club or his agent. That appears to have been sorted out and S Liege paid 2 million Euros for him. Thuram is reported as saying the following ......
"It's a taste that I have lost in recent months, I miss it," says Yohann Thuram. "Before coming here, I had a long discussion with the leadership of the Standard. The purpose of my loan to Charlton is to find playing time to come back stronger next season in Standard and restart on a sound basis. I signed up for four years in Standard, it is not for nothing. My goal is to impose myself as the owner. "
Sorry to sound like the proverbial broken record, but if this quote is true, it strengthens the idea that we are a reserve team to SL, fattening up the players to move them on.
Thuram has already caused some controversy. There was talk of litigation as his attempts to transfer to S Liege had not been agreed by his club or his agent. That appears to have been sorted out and S Liege paid 2 million Euros for him. Thuram is reported as saying the following ......
"It's a taste that I have lost in recent months, I miss it," says Yohann Thuram. "Before coming here, I had a long discussion with the leadership of the Standard. The purpose of my loan to Charlton is to find playing time to come back stronger next season in Standard and restart on a sound basis. I signed up for four years in Standard, it is not for nothing. My goal is to impose myself as the owner. "
Sorry to sound like the proverbial broken record, but if this quote is true, it strengthens the idea that we are a reserve team to SL, fattening up the players to move them on.
Not necessarily, the only thing it proves is that Thuram himself wants to go back to Liege and become first choice keeper there, unless Ajderevic and Reza and the others all start saying similar things then you can't possibly tell whether this is the 'party line' or simply Thuram's own desire, especially as he's not that popular over here anyway. Quite apart from which, Hamer is now pretty decisively and definitely Charlton No. 1 and unlikely to change so if I was Thuram I'd be looking to go elsewhere too.
Whatever the exact scenario, it is nevertheless clear that Powell had little say in the arrival of Thuram and was pretty powerless re the departure of Alnwick - not at all the way he would have been used to working in the past, nor the way he would choose to work in future. Hence "footballing issues"?
but Seth if that was the case Riga would be playing him, I also stuck my neck out saying as soon as hamer was fit he would be in goal, the facts don't add up to the story being spun
Thuram has already caused some controversy. There was talk of litigation as his attempts to transfer to S Liege had not been agreed by his club or his agent. That appears to have been sorted out and S Liege paid 2 million Euros for him. Thuram is reported as saying the following ......
"It's a taste that I have lost in recent months, I miss it," says Yohann Thuram. "Before coming here, I had a long discussion with the leadership of the Standard. The purpose of my loan to Charlton is to find playing time to come back stronger next season in Standard and restart on a sound basis. I signed up for four years in Standard, it is not for nothing. My goal is to impose myself as the owner. "
Sorry to sound like the proverbial broken record, but if this quote is true, it strengthens the idea that we are a reserve team to SL, fattening up the players to move them on.
Not necessarily, the only thing it proves is that Thuram himself wants to go back to Liege and become first choice keeper there, unless Ajderevic and Reza and the others all start saying similar things then you can't possibly tell whether this is the 'party line' or simply Thuram's own desire, especially as he's not that popular over here anyway. Quite apart from which, Hamer is now pretty decisively and definitely Charlton No. 1 and unlikely to change so if I was Thuram I'd be looking to go elsewhere too.
He actually says that following discussions at SL, the purpose of his loan to Charlton was to 'find playing time'. Not help us in our struggle as a team, but to help his position for the future. This resonates with the SL guy saying that players not good enough for the SL first team go to Charlton to get experience...(not results). If results for Charlton follow I am sure nobody would complain, but based on what I have described, I can't find the bit that says players are coming here to get success for us, but I can find the bits that indicate we are seen (by some?) as a convalescent home to make players better.
No-one is spinning, NLA - we are all speculating and interpreting based on limited facts. I don't think Riga not picking Thuram proves anything - RD could still have used the gk situation to unsettle Powell without then insisting that Riga play Thuram.
im sure RM said at one of the meetings with CP and KM i think that the takeover funds weren't in place when the takeover was announced on the O/S because of finalities with the FA etc. Then RD said in an interview he had his own people look at the team and they had to act quick by sending over some recruits without powells entire say so, just so we had some extra players to keep up going until we could put some bids in (the last week of the window) for PP jackson gradel. i wouldnt say that he sent them over just because he wants us to be standards reserves
AB why though are you more concerned about RD than TJ and MS and why was there not the need to rally a group as strong as the G21 back then
Firstly, I think there's an assumption that I brought the group together. In fact, I was asked by some other names on the list to take a lead. I said I would only be involved if there was a broad-based group that was so wide it could not reasonably be accused of pursuing a narrow agenda, wanting to damage the club
Rick, do you not in hindsight think that advocating a boycott on season tickets is a direct way of damaging the club?
What I was suggesting, on the morning we learned Powell had been sacked, was a strike - not a boycott. That is, don't buy until we find out more. That would have had no immediate practical damage to the club, because most season tickets are sold in the week leading up to the initial deadline, in this case immediately prior to April 9th. Even if circumstances had meant it commanded widespread support - say Riga had fielded all the January signings and we'd been thrashed by Millwall - it would have done no damage, because people would have signed up later if they wished to buy.
While the season-ticket revenue is important, it only amounts to about £2m, which is less than a fifth of the turnover. Deferring part of that would make very little difference to someone with RD's resources, but it may have got his attention. However, we felt on reflection and as events moved on that it wasn't necessary or appropriate action.
The part of the jigsaw that you are missing is that as far as we were concerned the statement was drawn up in conjunction with the chair of the trust. He was at the meeting and at that stage our assumption was that the trust would sign up to it. In the event he withdrew his name 24 hours later because the trust board as a whole took a different view, which may have been right or wrong, but that's why the idea that it was an attempt to usurp the trust is not a valid one.
What was left was a position where the majority of the trust board, who did not attend the meeting, would have vetoed the views agreed by the group as a whole, including those who are not members of the trust. In my view that would have been daft.
but Seth if that was the case Riga would be playing him, I also stuck my neck out saying as soon as hamer was fit he would be in goal, the facts don't add up to the story being spun
Any coach worth his salt would think twice before pitching a keeper who seems unused to the demands of Championship football into a Championship relegation battle.
Perhaps Riga has told RD that Thuram is not yet up to the task, whereas coming from Powell it may have seemed like resistance to a new way of working just for the sake of it?
but Seth if that was the case Riga would be playing him, I also stuck my neck out saying as soon as hamer was fit he would be in goal, the facts don't add up to the story being spun
Any coach worth his salt would think twice before pitching a keeper who seems unused to the demands of Championship football into a Championship relegation battle.
Perhaps Riga has told RD that Thuram is not yet up to the task, whereas coming from Powell it may have seemed like resistance to a new way of working just for the sake of it?
It would also have killed Riga's credibility from the outset if Thuram had played, which I think everyone will have realised, including RD.
Given Reza looks likely to up and leave at the end of the season, Thuram has been assessed by our coaching team as simply not good enough (Middlesborough targeted him, they were shooting from all sorts of distances, and one went in), Astrit can't last 90 minutes, basically none of our network players are finding real quality time on the pitch.
I believe RD has got these players in to try help both us and the network, as his goal, but has massively underestimated what's required in this league (this man knows nothing about football, especially lower league English), once Powell was out he let his men in to have a look and get back to him, Riga obviously views a much larger chance of staying up with our current lot. Maybe involving Astrit/Reza as Powell was, but being in attacking positions they will be rotated (when fit).
Hard to disagree with this I should imagine, if we stay in The Championship, he may need to re-work out how he is going to treat us, he may just have to leave us to our own with 1/2 additions, and the help with academy. If we go down, I sense he'll give it a go again believing that these players will have no problem in League One.
not really AB when Riga said in his joining statement ," I am friends with the owner and he has asked me to do a job", now that job could've been to play all SL players and try to keep cafc up , no credibility lost
I was and still am a powell man , but I am not going to just sit and listen to people saying Powelly got sacked because he wouldn't play Thuram , when no one bar powelly and RD know, and since Hamer was fit both mgrs. have played him
Comments
I find your suggestion of how the conversation may have gone between CP and RD very plausible i.e. 'why are you not playing Thuram' rather than 'play Thuram'.
It just happens that the Championship is stronger than some of the first divisions in Europe. I am disappointed to think that those that own our club could have made such a bad judgement call, but maybe they, really did. The two permanent signings from other clubs could have been for the same reason - they could have been scouted for SL and thought not quite good enough, but young enough so it was decided that they would be good enough for Charlton, who are only in the second division in England. It is my best guess that SL would struggle to finish mid-table in the Premier League, and could easily get relegated and then be in the same division as us.
Clearly this is all speculation, but if any of it is even remotely close to the truth Mundell is right on the money when he says it's possible "...that the tension around player selection was unnecessary and unfortunate, but perhaps nobody's fault. I doubt very much that it's why Powell was sacked though."
If that is the case I can see why RD doesn't feel the need to justify himself as he has just made a few miscalculations. He did say something along the lines of player signings not always working, so there is some recognition that we have, perhaps, brought in players that are not good enough.
I realise you are trying to help me, so please dont take this as picking an argument. I'm just confused now. You believe that they brought in Thuram because they thought they were going to get a (decent money) offer for Hamer?
I can see that Thuram arriving, unsettled Alnwick. I'm not surprised by that. I'm just not sure I buy this thing about Hamer, who was injured after all. Why not wait until such an offer materialised, before bringing in Thuram? Wages for three keepers? Thought he wants to break even.
It more looks to me like a case of "I have this spare keeper, so I'm bringing him over here, so you will have to get shot of either Hamer or Alnwick". Because THAT of course would save on wages, if you are looking at wages from a Group point of view rather than just CAFC wages....
If of course Thuram shows us that he can become a good keeper, then I will see the sense of it all. Bit of a big "if" right now. I have not seen him, and respect NLA's spirited defence of him. However one fact is that I have never, since CL started, read such a stream of mockery of one of our players, from other teams' fans
"It's a taste that I have lost in recent months, I miss it," says Yohann Thuram. "Before coming here, I had a long discussion with the leadership of the Standard. The purpose of my loan to Charlton is to find playing time to come back stronger next season in Standard and restart on a sound basis. I signed up for four years in Standard, it is not for nothing. My goal is to impose myself as the owner. "
but if you only have 2 keepers , Hamer, Alnwick and both could leave for free at the end of the season , or someone says I will give you x amount now, would it not be worth having another one who has been transferred for 2 million euros in his last move to be one of the two and let one of them go
Alnwick done superb for us I thought honestly he was better than hamer, too me Hamer and Thuram are pretty similar , Both have issues with what they do in the sticks , hamer has had several threads of his own where opinion has been divided as to his ability and worth
the thing with Thuram is that people made their ,mind up before he played that it was an indication RD picked the team and any error or thing he done that was different to the norm was exaggerated
for example had Thuram nearly given the ball to the sheff utd striker like hamer did there would have been calls for his deportation
and lets not even mention the fact hamer failed to make more than one pass with his distribution that game also
ultimately the decision was right Alnwick wont be back this season and that would've happened anyway even if he stayed with us and Hamer is still a quality shot stopper but an average goalie
Chris Powell has explained Charlton’s decision to sell Ben Alnwick to Leyton Orient.
Alnwick was allowed to leave on deadline day in a move that shocked supporters because he was the club’s first-choice goalkeeper.
The 27-year-old had fewer than six months left on his contract and Powell has revealed he was not given assurances over a new deal.
The Charlton manager said: “The fans have every right to think that is a little bit confusing but sadly we have not been able to give him a guarantee [of a new contract].
“I wanted to keep him but his advisor said there was interest from Orient, who are going well in League One. Of course, I was not entirely happy with it.”
maybe we thought we could do better in our search for a new full time keeper next season
And I'm sure the fact that Alnwick (free) was SCP 's first choice when Thuram (€2m) was also available so I'd prefer the manager to be choosing his keepers than someone who is advising Roland and (I'm clearly guessing) may have been the same football adviser who made the mistake of encouraging Roland to spend €2m on Thuram in the first place and is trying to save face.
No idea when Alnwicks problems came to light but he was doing a more than decent job and Hamer as back up with Pope as emergency cover would appear to be decent and cheapish options for a club like us
Thuram got away with numerous flaps/ scuffed punches at Wigan and because it didn't lead to a goal nothing was seen by the wider audience and the QPR pass was another monster error that he got away with but there was a bigger Charlton audience to witness it
Hamer has his faults but to me is definitely, for now, a lot better option than Thuram but with the Alnwick situation a bit cloudy it did seem an odd "forced" signing at the time
This resonates with the SL guy saying that players not good enough for the SL first team go to Charlton to get experience...(not results).
If results for Charlton follow I am sure nobody would complain, but based on what I have described, I can't find the bit that says players are coming here to get success for us, but I can find the bits that indicate we are seen (by some?) as a convalescent home to make players better.
While the season-ticket revenue is important, it only amounts to about £2m, which is less than a fifth of the turnover. Deferring part of that would make very little difference to someone with RD's resources, but it may have got his attention. However, we felt on reflection and as events moved on that it wasn't necessary or appropriate action.
The part of the jigsaw that you are missing is that as far as we were concerned the statement was drawn up in conjunction with the chair of the trust. He was at the meeting and at that stage our assumption was that the trust would sign up to it. In the event he withdrew his name 24 hours later because the trust board as a whole took a different view, which may have been right or wrong, but that's why the idea that it was an attempt to usurp the trust is not a valid one.
What was left was a position where the majority of the trust board, who did not attend the meeting, would have vetoed the views agreed by the group as a whole, including those who are not members of the trust. In my view that would have been daft.
Perhaps Riga has told RD that Thuram is not yet up to the task, whereas coming from Powell it may have seemed like resistance to a new way of working just for the sake of it?
I believe RD has got these players in to try help both us and the network, as his goal, but has massively underestimated what's required in this league (this man knows nothing about football, especially lower league English), once Powell was out he let his men in to have a look and get back to him, Riga obviously views a much larger chance of staying up with our current lot. Maybe involving Astrit/Reza as Powell was, but being in attacking positions they will be rotated (when fit).
Hard to disagree with this I should imagine, if we stay in The Championship, he may need to re-work out how he is going to treat us, he may just have to leave us to our own with 1/2 additions, and the help with academy. If we go down, I sense he'll give it a go again believing that these players will have no problem in League One.
I was and still am a powell man , but I am not going to just sit and listen to people saying Powelly got sacked because he wouldn't play Thuram , when no one bar powelly and RD know, and since Hamer was fit both mgrs. have played him