I might well be wrong on this and have missed something - in which case, I stand to be corrected - but, if the worst comes to the worst and Diego leaves, my understanding is that we would not receive a fixed tariff fee for him (eg. £400,00), as we would for a youth player like Joe Gomez under the Elite Player Performance Plan, which applies very modest fixed transfer fees as between academies.
I think that the initial fee and add-ons would be determined by the Professional Football Compensation Committee ('PFCC'), who would take into account factors such as the costs of training and development, the player's age and playing record, the length of time he was registered with his former club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs and the interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player. Here's a link to the Regulations, which appear to be current as at 4 July 2014. See, in particular, Regulation 3 - http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-4_2293633_2128219
Not too many of these decisions appear on the Football League website (at least ones that I can find) but here is one relating to the transfer of a young winger, Robert Hall, from West Ham to Bolton last Summer. The initial fee was £450,000 plus the following: £2,500 per appearance for his first 100 games for Bolton in the Championship (or £10,000 per appearance for Bolton in the Premier League); £250,000 if Bolton are promoted within three seasons; and 20% of any profit on a future sale. http://www.football-league.co.uk/championship/news/20130830/pfcc-decision-robert-hall_2293322_3442193 Also in August 2013, the PFCC determined that Norwich should pay Villa £450,000 plus add-ons for a young goalie, Jed Steer.
I suspect that the £1.5million fee for Jenkinson in 2011 was probably a generous estimate of what Arsenal would have had to have paid for the player if a deal hadn't been struck and the PFCC been required to reach a determination. It was certainly reported at the time that, whilst this was the move of a lifetime for Carl as an Arsenal supporter, he was very keen for CAFC to get decent compensation and that probably helped us. At the time of the transfer, he'd only made eight appearances for us in League 1.
Although these tribunals nearly always, as a matter of policy, try and deflate the level of transfer fees, we would surely receive a couple of million for Diego plus substantial add-ons, given the level of his performances in the last 20 games of the season. Winning the Player of the Year Award is also, I would suggest, likely to carry some weight.
The key word is potential , Diego has more than Bowyer , Parker or Shelvey did at a similar age in my view. In my opinion he could be a top player and I wish we could enjoy him for at least another season.
Unlike others I do not begrudge him a move as long as it is not somewhere like Palace who are direct rivals .Unlike Parker who left at Charlton's high tide and as a result stopped us playing European football Diego completed his assignment last season and played a key role in keeping us up. Lets not forget that we were weakened not strengthened during the January window.
I also am not sure he would ever have signed a long term contract. I suspect Gus would always have advised him to keep his options open . We were a good local option whilst he completed his formal education . Like Dick I would have hoped he might sign on to ensure we would get a decent return on our investment , so that we can provide an opportunity to the next generation of Academy youngsters .
Poyet does not come under EPPP, he's a professional footballer, not a youth player, for which EPPP applies to. He's under 24, however, so yes, we would get a fee decided by tribunal i believe. EPPP only applies to players who haven't signed a pro contract under which the compensation etc was very murky and expensive for the bigger clubs before EPPP
Scott Parker couple of good seasons. Sold for 10m.Plus the fact that transfer fees are going up.
It's not really comparable is it? Parker was putting in performances for a top Premier League side, against even better Premier League sides. Having said that, Poyet is worth whatever a club is willing to pay fro him. One area I would like to see Roland improve is Charlton getting better money for our players. This is one area that Palace have done very well in.
Of course, none of this matters as the fee will, no doubt, be undisclosed so we will never know. With RD being so rich it, almost, becomes an irrelevance anyway as he can afford to invest a lot more than he is going to so the only issue is going to be FFP.
Poyet does not come under EPPP, he's a professional footballer, not a youth player, for which EPPP applies to. He's under 24, however, so yes, we would get a fee decided by tribunal i believe. EPPP only applies to players who haven't signed a pro contract under which the compensation etc was very murky and expensive for the bigger clubs before EPPP
Thanks for that. I was under the misapprehension we would get 400k as agreed between FL and PL for young players.
Scott Parker couple of good seasons. Sold for 10m.Plus the fact that transfer fees are going up.
It's not really comparable is it? Parker was putting in performances for a top Premier League side, against even better Premier League sides. Having said that, Poyet is worth whatever a club is willing to pay fro him. One area I would like to see Roland improve is Charlton getting better money for our players. This is one area that Palace have done very well in.
Since Duchatelet can underwrite losses and capex he will never be forced to sell on the cheap to fund cashflow. The trick is to get the likes of Poyet (and Gomez and others) on long term deals such that the club can hold on for full value say when a young talent is 22 or 23. The previous owners managed to secure every single academy talent except Poyet on a long term deal. If he goes it is because he refused offer(s) and felt a club higher up is the place to be. Let us hope that almost all of the talent brought through by the academy cuts it's teeth in the Championship with a Charlton shirt on because this is the way we become a sustainable club while others choose to lose £10-15M per annum and still can't secure promotion to the premier league. Give it 12 months and the writing will be on the wall! So my prediction is that Duchatelet will hold onto players longer and then sell when the next crop come through... Especially if they are better!
The trick is signing up our promising youngsters before blooding them in the first team and letting them leave for nominal fees. Perhaps not selling Stephens and signing up Diego Poyet before showing the world what a top player he is would have been a better option. Too late now of course.
I do admire your optimism SR. Relentlessly searching out a possible positive future in face of great odds and lots of evidence to the contrary. (Not being sarcastic there btw).
From Rd's point of view, wouldn't it make sense for Diego to play for SL (Champions Lge etc), so even if he re-signed we probably wouldn't see him for long anyway. We are just a cog in a big machine now!.
From Rd's point of view, wouldn't it make sense for Diego to play for SL (Champions Lge etc), so even if he re-signed we probably wouldn't see him for long anyway. We are just a cog in a big machine now!.
It would ultimately be up to Diego, not RD. I doubt a player of Diego's quality wants to play in Belgium.
The key word is potential , Diego has more than Bowyer , Parker or Shelvey did at a similar age in my view. In my opinion he could be a top player and I wish we could enjoy him for at least another season.
Unlike others I do not begrudge him a move as long as it is not somewhere like Palace who are direct rivals .
I would say Bowyer was streets ahead of Poyet at this early stage in his career , more games and a lot more goals in his locker Parker as mentioned elsewhere was doing it in the top flight against the best when he left, so had sort of reached his potential with us Shelvey left at the fledgling stage of his career and i would put him on a par with Poyet at this stage
Palace direct rivals hmmmmmm local rivals yes but direct I'd say no , league above and we haven't finished above them for 7 seasons or so and counting
Not sure he's a £10m potential footballer tbh. He looked decent in a shite team, yeah he's young but theres a hell of a long way to go to reach that kind of money. If we were selling him for 2-3m tomorrow I'd take that personally and reinvest across the squad.
Do hope he signs of course, but an astute signing up front or out wide could prove just as important.
But he has the potential to be a top player. Being English, if he proves himself in the Premiership, it would take top dollar to buy him.
We also lose any potential add ons we could have negotiated had he been contracted, sell on clause etc:(
The trick is signing up our promising youngsters before blooding them in the first team and letting them leave for nominal fees. Perhaps not selling Stephens and signing up Diego Poyet before showing the world what a top player he is would have been a better option. Too late now of course.
I do admire your optimism SR. Relentlessly searching out a possible positive future in face of great odds and lots of evidence to the contrary. (Not being sarcastic there btw).
Thanks vff! I was always optimistic once Riga came in. And Duchatelet is simply not into third tier football. I think he will sell the club in a couple of years if he can't make progress on and off the pitch. Initially I thought Duchatelet would push for play-offs ASAP with all the players leaving this summer but he is clearly taking a much slower path to the top. I could highlight the negative angles of what has happened / might happen but there are plenty of fans on here doing that already! The thing is that the required strengthening of the squad is entirely in the hands of Duchatelet, Meire and others. They don't appear to want to talk about it with fans in general or supporters groups which is a mistake in my book. Not sure what they are afraid of and it might kill off some of ultra weird speculation if they shared the vision? I mean FFS there are people on here who believe Duchatelet buys the club and then actively tries to get us relegated or simply doesn't know what he's doing. Unfortunately the more that this kind of view is publicised, the less inclined he will be to speak up. Or at least that would be my view.
The key word is potential , Diego has more than Bowyer , Parker or Shelvey did at a similar age in my view. In my opinion he could be a top player and I wish we could enjoy him for at least another season.
Unlike others I do not begrudge him a move as long as it is not somewhere like Palace who are direct rivals .
I would say Bowyer was streets ahead of Poyet at this early stage in his career , more games and a lot more goals in his locker Parker as mentioned elsewhere was doing it in the top flight against the best when he left, so had sort of reached his potential with us Shelvey left at the fledgling stage of his career and i would put him on a par with Poyet at this stage
Palace direct rivals hmmmmmm local rivals yes but direct I'd say no , league above and we haven't finished above them for 7 seasons or so and counting
I agree with this, and would even go further and say that Shelvey had more to his game at the same age,scoring goals with head and feet, more box to box. I think our time in league 1 and the bottom of the Championship has lowered our expectations. I would have liked to hold on to Poyet but we need to keep things in perspective.
Someone go to the Sunderland sites comments about Jack Colback regarding his transfer to Newcastle. It is frightening because it's exactly the same as us!
Ah, yes Sunderland - it leaves a bitter taste doesn't it? Hypocrisy of the highest order: it seems they have no recollection of the manipulation of the fee for Michael Turner which diminished the value of the sell-on clause for CAFC then? I'm so upset for them.....
I was answering KHA's query as to why he wasnt offered a contract Pre-RD
I also think one has been on the table since the takeover
As a comparison, does jack colback owe sunderland any loyalty? Why shouldnt he just move to newcastle on a free? Why didnt sunderland offer him PL money when they thought they would go down?
It does...all clubs are hypocrites when it comes to this though. A shabby set of rules causes this
The only manager I have ever seen show perspective on this issue is Jurgen Klopp on several transfers... he said he wasnt going to criticise Munich e.g. on Lewandowski because he had done exactly the same with players from Frankfurt.
Someone go to the Sunderland sites comments about Jack Colback regarding his transfer to Newcastle. It is frightening because it's exactly the same as us!
Ah, yes Sunderland - it leaves a bitter taste doesn't it? Hypocrisy of the highest order: it seems they have no recollection of the manipulation of the fee for Michael Turner which diminished the value of the sell-on clause for CAFC then? I'm so upset for them.....
I was answering KHA's query as to why he wasnt offered a contract Pre-RD
I also think one has been on the table since the takeover
As a comparison, does jack colback owe sunderland any loyalty? Why shouldnt he just move to newcastle on a free? Why didnt sunderland offer him PL money when they thought they would go down?
It does...all clubs are hypocrites when it comes to this though. A shabby set of rules causes this
The only manager I have ever seen show perspective on this issue is Jurgen Klopp on several transfers... he said he wasnt going to criticise Munich e.g. on Lewandowski because he had done exactly the same with players from Frankfurt.
Have to say I like everything about Dortmund, proper club, proper fans, proper manager. Refreshing in this day and age.
Comments
Good luck Diego.
I think that the initial fee and add-ons would be determined by the Professional Football Compensation Committee ('PFCC'), who would take into account factors such as the costs of training and development, the player's age and playing record, the length of time he was registered with his former club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs and the interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player. Here's a link to the Regulations, which appear to be current as at 4 July 2014. See, in particular, Regulation 3 - http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-4_2293633_2128219
Not too many of these decisions appear on the Football League website (at least ones that I can find) but here is one relating to the transfer of a young winger, Robert Hall, from West Ham to Bolton last Summer. The initial fee was £450,000 plus the following: £2,500 per appearance for his first 100 games for Bolton in the Championship (or £10,000 per appearance for Bolton in the Premier League); £250,000 if Bolton are promoted within three seasons; and 20% of any profit on a future sale. http://www.football-league.co.uk/championship/news/20130830/pfcc-decision-robert-hall_2293322_3442193 Also in August 2013, the PFCC determined that Norwich should pay Villa £450,000 plus add-ons for a young goalie, Jed Steer.
I suspect that the £1.5million fee for Jenkinson in 2011 was probably a generous estimate of what Arsenal would have had to have paid for the player if a deal hadn't been struck and the PFCC been required to reach a determination. It was certainly reported at the time that, whilst this was the move of a lifetime for Carl as an Arsenal supporter, he was very keen for CAFC to get decent compensation and that probably helped us. At the time of the transfer, he'd only made eight appearances for us in League 1.
Although these tribunals nearly always, as a matter of policy, try and deflate the level of transfer fees, we would surely receive a couple of million for Diego plus substantial add-ons, given the level of his performances in the last 20 games of the season. Winning the Player of the Year Award is also, I would suggest, likely to carry some weight.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Are sure it's not a coded message to his bird?
The previous owners managed to secure every single academy talent except Poyet on a long term deal. If he goes it is because he refused offer(s) and felt a club higher up is the place to be. Let us hope that almost all of the talent brought through by the academy cuts it's teeth in the Championship with a Charlton shirt on because this is the way we become a sustainable club while others choose to lose £10-15M per annum and still can't secure promotion to the premier league. Give it 12 months and the writing will be on the wall!
So my prediction is that Duchatelet will hold onto players longer and then sell when the next crop come through... Especially if they are better!
I do admire your optimism SR. Relentlessly searching out a possible positive future in face of great odds and lots of evidence to the contrary. (Not being sarcastic there btw).
Huddersfield.
Parker as mentioned elsewhere was doing it in the top flight against the best when he left, so had sort of reached his potential with us
Shelvey left at the fledgling stage of his career and i would put him on a par with Poyet at this stage
Palace direct rivals hmmmmmm local rivals yes but direct I'd say no , league above and we haven't finished above them for 7 seasons or so and counting
I was always optimistic once Riga came in. And Duchatelet is simply not into third tier football. I think he will sell the club in a couple of years if he can't make progress on and off the pitch. Initially I thought Duchatelet would push for play-offs ASAP with all the players leaving this summer but he is clearly taking a much slower path to the top.
I could highlight the negative angles of what has happened / might happen but there are plenty of fans on here doing that already!
The thing is that the required strengthening of the squad is entirely in the hands of Duchatelet, Meire and others. They don't appear to want to talk about it with fans in general or supporters groups which is a mistake in my book. Not sure what they are afraid of and it might kill off some of ultra weird speculation if they shared the vision? I mean FFS there are people on here who believe Duchatelet buys the club and then actively tries to get us relegated or simply doesn't know what he's doing.
Unfortunately the more that this kind of view is publicised, the less inclined he will be to speak up. Or at least that would be my view.
I think our time in league 1 and the bottom of the Championship has lowered our expectations. I would have liked to hold on to Poyet but we need to keep things in perspective.
Someone go to the Sunderland sites comments about Jack Colback regarding his transfer to Newcastle. It is frightening because it's exactly the same as us!
Ah, yes Sunderland - it leaves a bitter taste doesn't it? Hypocrisy of the highest order: it seems they have no recollection of the manipulation of the fee for Michael Turner which diminished the value of the sell-on clause for CAFC then? I'm so upset for them.....
It does...all clubs are hypocrites when it comes to this though. A shabby set of rules causes this
The only manager I have ever seen show perspective on this issue is Jurgen Klopp on several transfers... he said he wasnt going to criticise Munich e.g. on Lewandowski because he had done exactly the same with players from Frankfurt.
The club are not going to constantly tell us what they are doing .. calm down ffs