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One important thing tonight re: Riga

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  • dickplumb said:

    Also the half hearted announcement by Lockwood. Bit disingenuous I thought.

    In fairness to Dave his voice is pretty much gone at the moment. He's voice croaked as be welcomed the two teams onto the pitch and Riga appeared just seconds later so Dave probably didn't have the big, grand welcome left in him.
  • seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.



    Powell had 30 games and won 27 points less than one point a game.

    Riga has had 1 game and got 1 point therefore better than Powell.

    How many gams should we judge the new manager by?
  • So just the two network players in the starting XI and probably the two most fans would have picked. What do we make of that then? Bit surprised to see Sordell start, but probably worth a try.

    Its quite interesting that Sordell started if Dyer chase the starting 11 as it has been stated. Does that mean he disagreed with CP on this?
  • Sorry Seth but you are over egging the pudding to say that it was Riga who did not deliver last night, or at least not entirely. We created far more chances in the first half hour than in the entire game on Sunday, better chances too for the most part. Poor finishing and some good goalkeeping from Smithies kept us goal-less and if you blame Riga for that after about 36 hours of being at the club, more fool you.
  • iaitch said:

    seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.





    How many gams should we judge the new manager by?
    Exactly. I am judging him by expecting him to hit the ground running, I admit that.
    In the present turmoil one simple thing to focus on and stay sane with is, are we getting points, are we going to stay up?

    Yes I am suspicious of Riga in a lot of ways, but I am trying to say to myself, put that all aside and see if he delivers safety in this division, that is what I want.

    I have not compared Riga to Powell in anything I have posted on Charlton life. I simply want him to deliver the points, and to get Charlton Athletic safe.

    So, sorry, one point is not very impressive in my eyes.
  • seth plum said:

    iaitch said:

    seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.





    How many gams should we judge the new manager by?
    Exactly. I am judging him by expecting him to hit the ground running, I admit that.
    In the present turmoil one simple thing to focus on and stay sane with is, are we getting points, are we going to stay up?

    Yes I am suspicious of Riga in a lot of ways, but I am trying to say to myself, put that all aside and see if he delivers safety in this division, that is what I want.

    I have not compared Riga to Powell in anything I have posted on Charlton life. I simply want him to deliver the points, and to get Charlton Athletic safe.

    So, sorry, one point is not very impressive in my eyes.
    Powell was not delivering points though was he? You can point to all the off field shenanigans that you like, place the blame on whoever you think deserves it, but the fact remains Powell's record this season is LESS than one point per game. With Chris Powell in charge, by your own criteria, we were NOT getting points and NOT staying up. On the basis of one whole game the very worst you can say is we haven't got instantly better - we certainly haven't got instantly worse either. And if you compare possession, corners, shots etc between last night and Sunday then I think you will find we were significantly improved. If we remain at those standards and not Sunday's, then the points WILL come, of that I am sure.
  • Seth plum that was a better performance last night than anything Powell has delivered lately.
  • Sordell just needs to get vaguely close to the form he was in at Watford and there was a slight improvement in his movement, efforts and workrate. He has underperformed at Charlton and would be interesting to see if Riga can establish a better working relatiuonship with him to try and unearth this talent that might lie within? If the team can be a positively minded unit, then things can only improve.
    If Riga can achieve this, I am quietly confident that he has credentials to do so, then his appointment could be anopther one of RD's tough and unpalatable choices that ultimately works out?
  • Kap10 said:

    So just the two network players in the starting XI and probably the two most fans would have picked. What do we make of that then? Bit surprised to see Sordell start, but probably worth a try.

    Its quite interesting that Sordell started if Dyer chase the starting 11 as it has been stated. Does that mean he disagreed with CP on this?
    It's entirely possible, but it's also possible that the team played last night is the one that Powell, Dyer and Matthew had planned to play. They must have already had a team selection in mind for last night when Riga arrived. It wouldn't be the first time Powell had recalled Sordell to the starting line-up from seeming obscurity.
  • As I said above, I have avoided comparing Chris Powell with Riga.

    I have not really talked about better or worse either, although there are people who were at the Valley last night who would testify that at half time I mentioned a lot of positives (as I wrote on the pre match thread if you want to check it out).

    At the moment I find it easier NOT to compare Riga to Powell, but to compare points gained with points needed.
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  • Then if that is the case (and quite possibly), considering Powell had a contract put to him last week then RD would be even more of an untrustable snake than you would realise

    Doubt he would have been the first owner to have a plan b in mind when entering contract negotiations with his current manager.

  • thenewbie said:

    seth plum said:

    iaitch said:

    seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.





    How many gams should we judge the new manager by?
    Exactly. I am judging him by expecting him to hit the ground running, I admit that.
    In the present turmoil one simple thing to focus on and stay sane with is, are we getting points, are we going to stay up?

    Yes I am suspicious of Riga in a lot of ways, but I am trying to say to myself, put that all aside and see if he delivers safety in this division, that is what I want.

    I have not compared Riga to Powell in anything I have posted on Charlton life. I simply want him to deliver the points, and to get Charlton Athletic safe.

    So, sorry, one point is not very impressive in my eyes.
    Powell was not delivering points though was he? You can point to all the off field shenanigans that you like, place the blame on whoever you think deserves it, but the fact remains Powell's record this season is LESS than one point per game. With Chris Powell in charge, by your own criteria, we were NOT getting points and NOT staying up. On the basis of one whole game the very worst you can say is we haven't got instantly better - we certainly haven't got instantly worse either. And if you compare possession, corners, shots etc between last night and Sunday then I think you will find we were significantly improved. If we remain at those standards and not Sunday's, then the points WILL come, of that I am sure.
    Agree entirely. Our warm feelings towards Powell shouldn't mask the fact that he couldn't inspire a single accurate shot in one or two games recently. Our first-half performance yesterday was a vast improvement; let's see if we can build on that.

  • seth plum said:

    As I said above, I have avoided comparing Chris Powell with Riga.

    I have not really talked about better or worse either, although there are people who were at the Valley last night who would testify that at half time I mentioned a lot of positives (as I wrote on the pre match thread if you want to check it out).

    At the moment I find it easier NOT to compare Riga to Powell, but to compare points gained with points needed.

    Do you at least accept that (for whatever reason it may be) under Powell's management we were NOT gaining the points needed? This is not a question about whether he COULD have got the points needed, that is now purely hypothetical - he WASN'T. Is this a valid point to you? (Genuine question.)
  • thenewbie said:

    seth plum said:

    As I said above, I have avoided comparing Chris Powell with Riga.

    I have not really talked about better or worse either, although there are people who were at the Valley last night who would testify that at half time I mentioned a lot of positives (as I wrote on the pre match thread if you want to check it out).

    At the moment I find it easier NOT to compare Riga to Powell, but to compare points gained with points needed.

    Do you at least accept that (for whatever reason it may be) under Powell's management we were NOT gaining the points needed? This is not a question about whether he COULD have got the points needed, that is now purely hypothetical - he WASN'T. Is this a valid point to you? (Genuine question.)
    Of course I accept we were not getting the points needed under Powell, but I HOPED he would. I also cut him immense slack because I thought the constraints he was working under were very tough indeed.
    Ironically after the Sheffield United game, and before Powell's departure I said I would grab at a 0-0 against Huddersfield...which we got last night!

    If Powell had stayed, I would probably be thinking, OK, a draw against Huddersfield, steadied the ship somewhat, lets battle against Millwall now. I have no doubt that would have been my mindset.

    I really am trying not to be forced into a comparison between Powell and Riga, but that was then and this is now.

    I think, OK Roland, if as the club statement says a new manager must attack the next vital fixtures, and get Charlton Athletic safe, then he has to do better than before. At the moment playing better could be all well and good, but we need points, and we have gained one (or dropped two?).

    I wanted a win, that would have been better than my post cup tie hopes, but we drew, so there is no particular reason to be encouraged as we stand.




  • Chris Powell's win rate was 40%, Phil Parkinson's win rate was nearly 39%, look at the stick Parkinson was getting, and his constraints were worse than Powell's ?
    So if based on results Powell was as bad as Parkinson?

    Last night was a vast improvement on Powell's negative defensive line ups, when was the last time we had 14 efforts on goal ?



  • Chris Powell's win rate was 40%, Phil Parkinson's win rate was nearly 39%, look at the stick Parkinson was getting, and his constraints were worse than Powell's ?
    So if based on results Powell was as bad as Parkinson?

    Last night was a vast improvement on Powell's negative defensive line ups, when was the last time we had 14 efforts on goal ?

    19 efforts against Birmingham, not Powells fault that he wasn't given the necessary firepower up front at the beginning of the season. Unless we either get new striker in or one of the current ones suddenly starts to play out of their skins changing manager isn't going to change enough of our results. If Sordell or Church (don't laugh) suddenly start banging them in then it was just as likely that would have happened under Powell, in my opinion.
  • We'll have to agree to disagree then Seth, I can see a few reasons to be encouraged, primarily the far more positive and attacking style demonstrated last night. I would have taken a point last night before the game, disappointed not to get three after the game, and frankly no manager could have physically forced players to score the chances they fluffed on the night.

    My mindset is much the same as yours in that a point steadies the boat, and Saturday is where we must push on and show some real fight and determination - but after the cup game I would not have been confident of a point last night, perhaps the failing is mine not Powell's but for a great deal of this season I have gone into too many games expecting to lose, and hoping for a draw, mostly because of the football the team played. After last night I saw enough to make me think there just might be a proper football playing, passing on the pitch, attacking team in there somewhere after all. We haven't seen it fully blossom, but I am considerably more impressed by Riga now than I was this time yesterday. By the end of the month we'll have a better idea of where we stand... for better or worse.
  • seth plum said:

    thenewbie said:

    seth plum said:

    As I said above, I have avoided comparing Chris Powell with Riga.

    I have not really talked about better or worse either, although there are people who were at the Valley last night who would testify that at half time I mentioned a lot of positives (as I wrote on the pre match thread if you want to check it out).

    At the moment I find it easier NOT to compare Riga to Powell, but to compare points gained with points needed.

    Do you at least accept that (for whatever reason it may be) under Powell's management we were NOT gaining the points needed? This is not a question about whether he COULD have got the points needed, that is now purely hypothetical - he WASN'T. Is this a valid point to you? (Genuine question.)
    Of course I accept we were not getting the points needed under Powell, but I HOPED he would. I also cut him immense slack because I thought the constraints he was working under were very tough indeed.
    Ironically after the Sheffield United game, and before Powell's departure I said I would grab at a 0-0 against Huddersfield...which we got last night!

    If Powell had stayed, I would probably be thinking, OK, a draw against Huddersfield, steadied the ship somewhat, lets battle against Millwall now. I have no doubt that would have been my mindset.

    I really am trying not to be forced into a comparison between Powell and Riga, but that was then and this is now.

    I think, OK Roland, if as the club statement says a new manager must attack the next vital fixtures, and get Charlton Athletic safe, then he has to do better than before. At the moment playing better could be all well and good, but we need points, and we have gained one (or dropped two?).

    I wanted a win, that would have been better than my post cup tie hopes, but we drew, so there is no particular reason to be encouraged as we stand.


    I think he's proven on previous occassions he's not capable of getting the team to battle against Millwall. That performance back in Sept was a joke and i'm sure the same would have happened this Sat. And don't get me wrong it still might, but at least i'll go into it not knowing and therefore with a bit of hope, that i would not have otherwise had.
  • edited March 2014
    That is the best I have seen Sordell play for us - he posed problems and looked like a proper striker. That is a plus for the new manager. I thought we were more open (less cagey) from the off which is another positive. Huddersfield made some changes at half time and were starting to control the match - he acted quickly to bring on Pritchard which stopped that dynamic- so that worked. I thought Harriot looked tired at the end so the right sub. I think the only sub I disagreed with was Sordell for Church. I think he was causing them problems and was our most likely scorer.

    As a Powell fan and somebody who is disapointed he has gone - I was mildy encouraged by the team and Riga's start. That side of things may not be the disaster I feared. Having said that, without debating how many points Chrissy got and Riga has got - the bottom line is that the squad needs a little strengthening - that is the big issue Powell had and Riga now has and now is th etime where a player or two has to come in. If we manage to do that - we could get out of this - If they are the right players. But we could have got out of it for th esame reason if Chrissy was in charge.

    I am willing, for the sake of the club, to support Riga and the team. I still think we are all very fragile and a win at Millwall is massive for a wjole host of reasons!
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  • Chris Powell's win rate was 40%, Phil Parkinson's win rate was nearly 39%, look at the stick Parkinson was getting, and his constraints were worse than Powell's ?
    So if based on results Powell was as bad as Parkinson?

    Last night was a vast improvement on Powell's negative defensive line ups, when was the last time we had 14 efforts on goal ?

    The majority of Parky's time was in League One.

    Powell's time has been equally split between League One/Championship.
  • Back to Riga, did anyone else notice his shouting and extravagant hand movements, all the while the team simply ignored him! He kept turing to Dyer and asking names it seemed (ie when someone made a mistake). He did give personal encouragement when players came close to him, which was good, but there is a way to go before I think he fully gets the players respect.
  • What's Riga got to do with last nights game? Dyer trained and picked the team. Whatever credit or criticism there is, belongs to Dyer.
  • That is the best I have seen Sordell play for us - he posed problems and looked like a proper striker. That is a plus for the new manager. I thought we were more open (less cagey) from the off which is another positive. Huddersfield made some changes at half time and were starting to control the match - he acted quickly to bring on Pritchard which stopped that dynamic- so that worked. I thought Harriot looked tired at the end so the right sub. I think the only sub I disagreed with was Sordell for Church. I think he was causing them problems and was our most likely scorer.

    As a Powell fan and somebody who is disapointed he has gone - I was mildy encouraged by the team and Riga's start. That side of things may not be the disaster I feared. Having said that, without debating how many points Chrissy got and Riga has got - the bottom line is that the squad needs a little strengthening - that is the big issue Powell had and Riga now has and now is th etime where a player or two has to come in. If we manage to do that - we could get out of this - If they are the right players. But we could have got out of it for th esame reason if Chrissy was in charge.

    I am willing, for the sake of the club, to support Riga and the team. I still think we are all very fragile and a win at Millwall is massive for a wjole host of reasons!

    Interesting how people can view things differently in a game, isn't it? Personally, I thought Sordell did little other than fail to score from two good chances. I thought Reza looked far more threatening last night, and certainly should have scored at least one.

    Totally agree with you on the need to strengthen the squad, though.
  • Pedro45 said:

    Back to Riga, did anyone else notice his shouting and extravagant hand movements, all the while the team simply ignored him! He kept turing to Dyer and asking names it seemed (ie when someone made a mistake). He did give personal encouragement when players came close to him, which was good, but there is a way to go before I think he fully gets the players respect.

    Of course there is, but that would be the case with 99% of managers coming into the role frankly. The players will have been disappointed and angry with themselves and each other even before CP was disposed of, this whole turn of events will certainly not have made things any easier for them. I don't think there is any single manager out there readily available who could win them all round and fire them all up within about 24 hours.
  • seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.



    Sorry but exactly what are you saying? That Riga should have led us to a victory after 48 hrs into the job! How much slack was CP cut ( rightly in my opinion) ? At least give this guy a chance?

    He was not in any way responsible for cp's departure and slagging him off will not bring CP back .

  • seth plum said:

    Steve Dowman said judge him on results (see above).
    My judgement based on last nights result in a vital game is only one point, not good enough.
    I have repeatedly said that if Riga keeps the reds up given the circumstances of his arrival he will have done well, and I want him to keep the reds up.
    So far he has failed to deliver, and remains at 0% support from me. If the reds win the vital relegation battle at Millwall that rises to 10% support from me...if the reds lose it will be Alex Dyers fault because poor old Jose has only just arrived.

    Do you honestly want us to stay up or would it suit your post CP sulk better if we were relegated ?

  • IAgree said:

    seth plum said:

    I suppose Lennie Lawrence was managing Barcelona when he came to us then? Results is what he should be judges on, nothing else, not being a nice bloke, smiling a lot, or being 'passionate', judge him on results.

    The result last night was one point instead of a much needed three. Judging by that he is not delivering what is needed, or maybe he can blame Alex Dyer for dropping two home points in a relegation battle. This is from the club statement:


    “However, given the club’s position in the league and the number of important fixtures upcoming, I felt this difficult decision was unavoidable at this time.

    “We will look to quickly appoint a replacement who we feel will give us the best chance of avoiding relegation from the Championship.

    So Jose Riga is expected to deliver 'at this time' and last night he did not deliver.



    Sorry but exactly what are you saying? That Riga should have led us to a victory after 48 hrs into the job! How much slack was CP cut ( rightly in my opinion) ? At least give this guy a chance?

    He was not in any way responsible for cp's departure and slagging him off will not bring CP back .

    How long or much is a chance?

    The club statement regarding the change of manager outlines the expectations. Vital games coming up...which I take to mean a winnable home game v Huddersfield, and a big relegation heavy local derby with Millwall, and beyond. Are there not the significant games alluded to in the club statement? If not, are they supposed to be Jose's warm up games whilst he gets settled?

    The other expectation is staying up. So you may define a 'chance' in one way, I another, and then there is what is to be gleaned from the club statement.

    How have I been slagging him off? Read my post match view, anyway it looks from one point of view that it was Alex Dyer last night and not Mr Riga. Whoever was in charge I expected three points, and so feel one point is not very encouraging.

  • IAgree said:

    seth plum said:

    Steve Dowman said judge him on results (see above).
    My judgement based on last nights result in a vital game is only one point, not good enough.
    I have repeatedly said that if Riga keeps the reds up given the circumstances of his arrival he will have done well, and I want him to keep the reds up.
    So far he has failed to deliver, and remains at 0% support from me. If the reds win the vital relegation battle at Millwall that rises to 10% support from me...if the reds lose it will be Alex Dyers fault because poor old Jose has only just arrived.

    Do you honestly want us to stay up or would it suit your post CP sulk better if we were relegated ?

    Does it really matter in the great scheme of things what I want?
    If you want to know, I hope we stay up...honestly.
    Thanks for your analysis of my state of mind by the way.

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