What will it take that would get you angry / concerned ?
Not fishing, looking for a disagreement or anything. I get that quite a few people wanted a managerial change.
What i don't get is the disagreement / belittling / taking a strong opposite view against those very concerned about the fabric of the club, its direction, relationship in this 'network' etc.
My 'best guess' is because you put yourself in the opposing 'camp' to those that liked and supported Powell / disliked those in that camp, and want to see it through. No idea whether that is right or wrong, but i'm really worried that we are seeing huge divisions being created in our support that will only make things worse in the short-medium term.
So please help educate me, when / what will it be before you get to the point of worrying about the future, identity etc like some others currently are ? What are the things that would trigger it ?
cheers
6
Comments
It is similar if not the same as those asking a few weeks ago "what is the line that needs to be crossed for you to want Powell sacked?"
Before then, this whole 'feeder club' mentality doesn't actually hold any basis in fact.
Though i'm not at all in the RD love camp, I feel that we need to give the new guy time to see if things improve before talking about ruining the club/losing identity etc.
any others to take on board ?
We are bottom so as Henry says you could ask those who want to keep Powell where we need to be before you would agree to him going.
As for me personally I neither wanted Chris out, nor refused to hear any critisism of him. I liked him as our manager. loved him as a legend but also thought some of his tactics were lacking.
We were bottom and have already been in league one, therefore going down doesn't fill me with the same fear it did the first time around. As for the running of the club well lots of clubs are feeder clubs, we may well end up getting some really good players if we are a feeder to a champions league side rather than a bottom premiership side.
What will make me strongly protest? Probably when I get given a note that we are moving to Selhurst, will that be too late? Who knows, wedidn't get much notice last time, will we this time?
So one question to you, if we go down, who will be to blame?
Sorry meant to add, that I actually though Powells days were numbered as soon as the new owners came in. New owners often wanted 'their man' at the helm. That's how Chris got the job in the first place.
He has spent 14 - 15m to buy the club and will spend whatever else running it over the period of his tenure. I don't care how many people slag him off, I absolutely do not believe he wants us to fail. I'm not convinced that we will become a feeder club either.
At the moment I am prepared to "give it a go" and will try and buy into this new way of thinking. Lets not pretend this is anything but a seriously radical change. RD is effectively saying the club has been run in completely the wrong manner and it is his way or the highway.
No one really knows what RD is thinking. He might well have taken a look post take over and thought that we were such a basket case under MS & TJ that he has no option but to implement a 2-3 year plan in 6 months.
I may well end up looking stupid and it could go very wrong very quickly. However, I am prepared to give the new Coach a chance, all of the new players a chance and also RD a chance.
Others have said that they think RD will be good for us in the long term and I subscribe to that view. If we have to go through some pain to get there and to a certain extent re-invent ourselves so be it.
RD isn't saying he will stop the Community Work, he isn't talking about leaving the Valley and he isn't talking about re-branding us. All of those things and more make up our identity, it isn't just about the players and coaching staff. I honestly think the fact that many revere Powell so much has made this a much more emotive argument. I don't believe the same out pouring of emotion would have taken place if RD had taken over at the time MS & TJ and had just sacked Parky.
We have weeded out the admin staff still taking home Premiership wages.
We have a bit of finance behind us.
We have a clear plan for the future (even though we are only beginning to see it, at least RD has a plan).
Those at the top will clearly be business-like and have a track record of success at at least one of their other clubs.
You ask about 'identity', but what does that really mean?
What has been our identity since Curbs left?
Is there a single 'identity' or is it just a nonsense concept?
Rebuilding a club, just like rebuilding a country, requires the long term approach.
Jumping up and down or building our own little band wagons at each and every turn is just pointless until we can see a clear direction we are heading in. We cant yet as there hasnt been enough time for new players to gel, a new manager to toe the new party line. As RD says, time will tell if this new direction will be better than the last few directions we've taken. No point in creating fear and panic and woe and doom untila season more time has passed.
Having said that I am so royally pissed off the a good man such a Chris has been a victim of this new direction. It isnt right that honourable men should suffer. I know he will go on to bigger and better things, but clearly his heart really was with our club. I only hope he will return one day when RD has ridden off to expand his empire elsewhere, leaving Charlton in the Premier league.
CP wasn't part of his plan and he took the window of opportunity to get rid of him.
Im sitting well on the fence until I've seen what Jose Riga is all about.
I'd imagine the SL fans had exactly the same justified concerns when they rioted. Now look at their team.
The only way I can look at it is something had to change at the club, (not the sacking this is refrence too) but the whole way it was being run
we had years of miss management by RM and tht resulted in the need to sell to two bob tony and market stall slater
then they had to go as it was clear they didn't have a bean once cash done one
so along came RD
Powell was always going to be got rid of either this season or next and that was never in doubt
So far I still have not seen anything that suggests that the RD way wont work, (not saying it will either)
I blame Yann as much as RD for him going
I really don't like timing of Powelly going or the way it has transpired that it has happened
Powelly should've either said to RD I aint doing that from the off or RD should've told him sorry but you must go on the day he took over
I think Powelly is a gentleman, an honourable man and it has been a privilege to have had him as our mgr in fact I would go as far to say an honour
I am glad Powelly was principled enough to say no I wont pick who you say as I would expect no more from a decent human being and a real Charlton man
He will bounce back and ultimately will get a gig that gets him to the prem, if backed with cash and the freedom to manage powell will win that's not in doubt
As for us we are where we are and who is to say RD has a plan that can work or it cant
We are bottom of the league not because of him but because with the players we have chris could get no more from them, we don't create enough chances we are fearful attacking wide, we don't gamble enough , now this may be Chris's fault only now will we see there are plenty of games left to get out of trouble, the way the players capitulated sunday was scandalous and not acceptable something had to change and that was not going to be RD , like I have said I don't like the way its transpired I wish it was different but we are where we are
For me, this whole feeder club thing doesn't make finacial sense. RD would surely make more by getting us in the premiership than getting Standard Liege in the champions league so why would our best players be farmed out to Belguim when it doesn't make him money.
Surely it's in RD's interest for Charlton to do well?
Not having a dig at you by any means.
I have always been very pro Powell but lately I've been questioning whether I've been seeing the bigger picture.
- The 'feeder club' idea is a myth: if you wanted to buy a feeder club, you would do so in a country where a team was much cheaper to run, you would never in a million years buy Charlton.
- The notion of the 'the Charlton I have known' seems to boil down to 'when we were winning, or at least when we are winning more often than we should, and when young players come through'. Well, pretty much every club of a similar size would say the same and, actually, this is something that has not been happening for many years now, but does seem to exactly tuned in with how RD wants to run the club: young players, working hard for our club.
- As I have said before, it would have been much easier for RD (from a PR point of view) to allow us to be relegated (or at least lose to Millwall) because then many more people would have been calling for CP to go. As it is, he has taken a very brave decision to give us a chance to stay up, no doubt knowing full well the flack he would get.
None of this is any criticism of CP, who I am quite certain will go on to success, but I would turn the question around: what is it about the current situation that says to you that it is working and a change was not needed?
I think RD has made us financially secure and has a plan. This plan is long-term, built on gradual development of young players (surely, to me the very essence of the 'Charlton way'). So as long as he sticks to the plan and the club continues to have his financial security, then I think he needs a good long period to try and make it come to fruition.
This drama over being a 'feeder club' is overplayed and histrionic to my eyes - Charlton ARE a feeder club, we have been for a long time, even in the Premiership years the best of our academy players often ended up smaller fish in bigger ponds - Scott Parker for example. The only difference I can see in real terms is that our prospects go to European clubs, not English ones. That's also why I have drawn the metaphorical line where I have - the money/profits of our kids goes a long way - but hopefully not straight into RD's pockets.
I await with interest, and not a little trepidation, but I am not panicking over the future/soul of this club just yet.
I am angry and saddened he has gone and don't know the answers about the direction of the Club but can't go with the "deliberate relegation" or "just a feeder club" ideas.
I may be very niaive and just wrong but will give them a bit more time yet.I just don't think it's a clear forces of good or evil debate.
Loved Powell and his passion, hated hoofball and Jordan Cousins playing wide right.
Loved new owners and a commitment to youth, hated loosing senior players and being a junior partner in a project.
Am I alone in fence sitting or head burying?
My Opinion as uneducated as it has ever been in nearly 40 years of following us,
With the exception of Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, City, every other club would and have sold their best players.
It is not a secret whoever bought the club would sell the players which could generate money so to say that hes a villain so early is ridiculous.
£20 million takeover to loan £2million (max) of talent to Standard Liege............stop it, honestly.
To say he has bought the club to loan players to Liege (in the Champions league) is fckin laughable.
I think we are up our own arses if you honestly believe they would want our best players, two of our arguably better players have gone to the major European forces which are..........eerrrrm...... errrr, Bournemouth and Brighton.
Sell? Sell? who is left to sell, how many are in contract??
You honestly think RD would say ' hey, you, your going Belgium, your family your kids the lot' your going Belgium' I can only imagine the reply. He DOESNT have that power over players.
When Swansea tried to turn things around the board started with a style of football and every manager has had to adhere to that since.
It needs time, unless of course everybody expected we were such a huge catch and some Arab (casual Racism) was going to say you know what heres £300million buy who you want, and keep Powell.
In my honest opinion it couldn't have got much worse but looked like it would before he came in and bought the club.
Im on his side..................to start with.
I said on the 1st February: "Sacked. Just get on with it. Clearly not gonna walk and clearly not part of the long term plan so put everyone out of their misery, bring in Johnny Foreigner and let's see this bright new world that so many claim Powell is holding us back from."
The game was up by that point, delaying the inevitable has just made the whole process much more frazzled than it needed to be / should have been.
I've never (knowingly) professed that Powell is a brilliant manager. I think the amount of praise / blame put on managers is ridiculously overstated. The majority of people in the game are potentially good managers and a lot of it is determined around budget and personality. In that respect, I put him in that category. He was a very good fit for us, and I'm convinced if supported on promotion to Championship or since, we could have been in for an over achieving period.
The fact he wasn't just not supported, but had to manage with his hands effectively behind his back is a testament to him, his team and the core of our squad. Don't underestimate what a huge achievement last season's strong finish was. This season proved too much, the uncertainty and lack of squad revival painfully impacted, it was desperate for the takeover and the supporting impetus that was likely to bring, but when it arrived it proved even worse from a managerial point of view.
He should have been dismissed two months ago, and he should have walked in the intervening period. It is very easy to sit behind a keyboard and tell people to quit their job though.
As for SCP, lets revisit in a few years time to see how he has got on.
Its not them and us it just differing views. Someone else’s concerns over the future of CAFC are no different anyone else’s as I assume we all want to the club to do well, play attractive football, bring a steady stream of youth through to 1st team football and be financially sound.
As I said on another post the days of running up massive debts and or having a sugar daddy are behind us so we need to be run pragmatically. This I believe is the model he is trying to bring, including what RD suggested regarding the sale of players if the right offer comes in.
Evolution and change are not always easy issues to accept, especially for something as emotive as the football club you support, however we do need changes to be made to ensure we’re not back in the place where the club is desperately trying to sell itself to anyone to ensure it stays in business. Its about how we see these changes that need to be made that differ, not just CP leaving but the way that the club is financed, the players it recruits / sells and the scouting methods employed.
When will I get worried? When we start selling the likes of Poyet and Cousins for Jenkinson and Shelvey money because we have to to survive.