"In 5 years, 2. liga? In 10 years, bankrupt! Who pays the bill?
Our club is not a toy! Piss off Duchatelet"
I was able to translate that, but am still wondering what they are actually on about, especially the first lines. It almost sounds like they accuse RD of being too ambitious and they would rather stay little old Jena bumbling around regional league.
Seems the mate of a neighbour is a big Jena fan, so I'm hoping to strike up a dialogue with him, but in the meantime its a bit puzzling. They've made a good start in the league, they are 3rd and won away to the second placed team last weekend. Wonder when that picture was taken, for a start.
"In 5 years, 2. liga? In 10 years, bankrupt! Who pays the bill?
Our club is not a toy! Piss off Duchatelet"
I was able to translate that, but am still wondering what they are actually on about, especially the first lines. It almost sounds like they accuse RD of being too ambitious and they would rather stay little old Jena bumbling around regional league.
Seems the mate of a neighbour is a big Jena fan, so I'm hoping to strike up a dialogue with him, but in the meantime its a bit puzzling. They've made a good start in the league, they are 3rd and won away to the second placed team last weekend. Wonder when that picture was taken, for a start.
Yes, that's the impression I got too! Very peculiar - in England, maybe not in Germany? - for fans to be resistant to an ambitious owner.
but few days ago i ask - does supporters have a voice in what happens to club - about players transfers money etc here in standard we hear nothing from RD - last transfer he says that there are come big players to us - a lot of words but nothing - RD rules in standard and nobody else have a word - sometimes you can say he is a dictator he's rules he's law and other must be quiet - we'll that's why the fans are angry and now we fright that he come with a coach just like luzon - in one month and we revolt again and yes we fright that if charlton goess to first that he take all the money from standard and put it into charlton and leave us with nothing
First it's not a nil sum game! By that I mean that CAFC and Liege are not fighting for a limited pool of resources - investment, players etc. Developments are possible across the network...if you can loan us players when we need them all good and when (not if) we reach the Premier league within a few years we can return the favoup! When we do arrive in the FAPL how much of the £65m will go to Staprix to help you and other network clubs? Or perhaps you sell players to us for say €5m and we develop and sell them on again. That is the model I discussed with a Liege fan last January and that's perhaps why we have Alcorcun in the network?
Second on fan representation: around five years back the CAFC supporters director and c.£1-2m of fans equity was wiped out to help with a sale of the club. Since then the club relationship with fans has been via a supporters trust and a fans forum but guess what: when the club was going through dark times not so long ago, the fans forum didn't meet. The Trust has open meetings with the club chairman but no real contact with the management. If Duchatelet wants to liaise with an organised fan group at each club and harness that energy rather than fights on the terraces then he needs to invest in that. So far I don't see that happening. And while we are climbing back up the league the only cries you will hear from CAFC fans will be faster, faster (more players now please). Sure nine months ago fans were kept in the dark but I believe that was because there were issues to deal with and they had to be resolved at pace to avoid relegation to the third tier. Consulting fans then would have slowed things down etc.
So now we are on the upswing and I'm sure you will be too fairly soon, what role does a fans organisation have in being consulted and helping to build the club? Or perhaps fans simply should have the right to ask questions about strategy and direction?
Not correct, I think. The fan on the board was discontinued in 2008 and this was not to support the sale of the club, as far as I know. It had more to do with the fact that certain directors didn't see why there should be a fan on the board. The official reason given was legal complications, although nobody within the club took that seriously.
The original fans' forum, which had a different structure to the current one, was then set up.
"In 5 years, 2. liga? In 10 years, bankrupt! Who pays the bill?
Our club is not a toy! Piss off Duchatelet"
I was able to translate that, but am still wondering what they are actually on about, especially the first lines. It almost sounds like they accuse RD of being too ambitious and they would rather stay little old Jena bumbling around regional league.
Seems the mate of a neighbour is a big Jena fan, so I'm hoping to strike up a dialogue with him, but in the meantime its a bit puzzling. They've made a good start in the league, they are 3rd and won away to the second placed team last weekend. Wonder when that picture was taken, for a start.
Is it in 5 years we've been relegated twice, in 10 years we'll be bankrupt.
"In 5 years, 2. liga? In 10 years, bankrupt! Who pays the bill?
Our club is not a toy! Piss off Duchatelet"
I was able to translate that, but am still wondering what they are actually on about, especially the first lines. It almost sounds like they accuse RD of being too ambitious and they would rather stay little old Jena bumbling around regional league.
Seems the mate of a neighbour is a big Jena fan, so I'm hoping to strike up a dialogue with him, but in the meantime its a bit puzzling. They've made a good start in the league, they are 3rd and won away to the second placed team last weekend. Wonder when that picture was taken, for a start.
Is it in 5 years we've been relegated twice, in 10 years we'll be bankrupt.
Just asked me half German mate. He says that wouldn't be the meaning, it would have to read "Vor 5 Jahren" to mean it as you suggested.
he agrees that they seem to be complaining about over-ambition without money to back it. Which I do not think is the RD way.
The hotly debated on State and local political level for years stadium project for the reconstruction of the Jena Ernst-Abbe-sports field in a DFL-compatible (second division compatible), pure football stadium experiences of fresh air and active support on the part of FC Carl Zeiss Jena - in the person of shareholder Roland Duchâtelet.
The Belgian businessman, who after obtaining the consent of the members of the FCC holds shares in the football match operations GmbH of tradition Association since early this year, has signaled in a letter to the mayor of Jena, Dr. Albrecht Schröter, its clear willingness to fund the project to support and provided funding in the amount of at least 7 million euros in view, to accept the information required by the city of Jena FC Carl Zeiss Jena own contribution.
Duchâtelet that has both client as well as operators of the resulting under a public-private partnership stadium in Belgium Sint-Truiden experience in this area: "The club needs a sound basis and is financially sustainable operating concept for a modern football stadium, to the alongside modern conference facilities and hotel capacity includes that are also for the city of Jena is of great interest. I am willing to provide expertise and financial resources to get this project together with city and club forward. "
Lutz Lindemann, club president of FCC. "This offer is more than just a signal - it is further proof that Roland Duchâtelet would like to accompany the FCC long term and develop together with us something that has the future and is financially viable. And that can now also be the stadium project. We thank Roland Duchâtelet for this work and hope that the issue of stadium construction in Jena can now be performed by endless decision-making processes to a happy end in which all - football, athletics, environment and the city of Jena -. Shall find "
Thanks for posting that. Seems like a further example of RD investing for the long term. As he says in the latest CAFC interview, such investments often cost less than so called investment in players, yet their positive effect is much longer lasting. It does make the report of unrest among Jena fans more puzzling. I may have a connection to their fans which may shed light on it.
Ah now I think we are getting closer to understanding it. He may have made a move to get round "50+1", the German rule which keeps 51% in the hands of fans via the membership system. I am not 100% sure but that is what it looks like from that translation, and would explain the fans' ire. German fans are generally very protective of "50+1" - which I think is admirable - and there was a huge row in Leipzig (which is near Jena) when Red Bull tried the same trick. RD however may say that if he puts in a large amount of money he ought to have a majority stake in the entity. The fans will then say, "fine, but this entity (a GMbH) can go bust, what happens to our club then?"
I think that is the battleground, but will follow it up.
1 game with closed doors - 0-5 forfait against zulte - penalty off 5000€ - that's what we have with the troubles earlier against zulte -
So what happens then, do the fans not involved(say the ones the other side of the pitch) do they get a refund if they have a Season Ticket
and the 5-0 defeat how has that affected the table, I see you moved up after your win Sunday but has the goal difference knocked you down now
the fans troy seats on the field for 2 times and the ref has finshed the game in 89 min. because of that and in 2012 with fire and smoke on the filed against the purples was that our punishment - but standard does not accept it off closing doors and go against it- we stand now at the 9 place and with the -3 still we there only zulte gets closer to the others
@ PragueAddick you are very close in that - in Germany does not exist that a club only from one leader is - in standard we are just angry that he does only what he think and not listen to us- there is no communication we don't know nothing about eveything - he rules everything - he do also the job off TD so all the transfer does he do - now know coach perhaps he shall do that - monocrat
Is Roland Duchatelet trying to implement the Sint-Truiden model in Jena? Its worth browsing that link. Can he get public money to help with the funding? No doubt this is what he means by building sustainability and if it works he may not need to get Carl Zeiss Jena into the Bundesliga to cash in. Its all very interesting.
Duchatelet appears to me to have made six independent investments. The network aspects may be a nice to have incidental.
Is Roland Duchatelet trying to implement the Sint-Truiden model in Jena? Its worth browsing that link. Can he get public money to help with the funding? No doubt this is what he means by building sustainability and if it works he may not need to get Carl Zeiss Jena into the Bundesliga to cash in. Its all very interesting.
Duchatelet appears to me to have made six independent investments. The network aspects may be a nice to have incidental.
That's a very interesting way to look at it. However doesn't the fact that Staprix owns four of the clubs, rather argue against that theory?
Then again...I like the Stayen concept, especially the idea of a hotel with bedroom views over the pitch . Smart and classy way to utilise the space around a stadium. However...if I was an STVV fan and I found that the hotel and stuff is owned and operated by a separate company to that which owns the club, I'd worry about that. I know someone here who comes from Sint-T., who might help me find out about that
Is Roland Duchatelet trying to implement the Sint-Truiden model in Jena? Its worth browsing that link. Can he get public money to help with the funding? No doubt this is what he means by building sustainability and if it works he may not need to get Carl Zeiss Jena into the Bundesliga to cash in. Its all very interesting.
Duchatelet appears to me to have made six independent investments. The network aspects may be a nice to have incidental.
That's a very interesting way to look at it. However doesn't the fact that Staprix owns four of the clubs, rather argue against that theory?
Then again...I like the Stayen concept, especially the idea of a hotel with bedroom views over the pitch . Smart and classy way to utilise the space around a stadium. However...if I was an STVV fan and I found that the hotel and stuff is owned and operated by a separate company to that which owns the club, I'd worry about that. I know someone here who comes from Sint-T., who might help me find out about that
Idle speculation on my part really. However, the fact that it probably makes sense to own each club through a single holding company (though, of course, Sint-Truiden and Ujpest are not owned by Statprix) doesn't mean they can't be managed as independent investments.
I guess my key point is that the operation of the network as we had envisaged it initially, i.e. the clubs being managed collectively and interacting to mutual benefit, does not appear to be central to Duchatelet's strategy for adding value and/or achieving his objectives, whatever they may be.
That doesn't mean that intra network loans won't continue, for example, it's just that this kind of activity may not be as central to Duchatelet's plans as we'd once imagined.
A €7m investment in Carl Zeiss Jena is a significant commitment. Meanwhile, we still have no network wide director of football, let alone any investment in shared infrastructure.
As you imply, Duchatelet is not very popular with SSTV fans and it's not hard to understand why, though they were very close to promotion last season and have made a terrific start to this one and seem less vociferous than they were, at least for now.
I would think that Duchatelet is a very honourable man who genuinely has the interests of his clubs at heart. However, the structure he has created at SSTV and what it appears he wants to do in Jena, if he can get away with it, may be much less benign when somebody less scupulous assumes ownership. Think Karl Oyston, who operates a hotel complex at Bloomfield Road, to imagine how events might evolve.
Comments
Thanks
In 10 years, bankrupt!
Who pays the bill?
(changes from German to French now, to directly address RD perhaps?)
Our club is not a toy!
Piss off Duchatelet"
Seems the mate of a neighbour is a big Jena fan, so I'm hoping to strike up a dialogue with him, but in the meantime its a bit puzzling. They've made a good start in the league, they are 3rd and won away to the second placed team last weekend. Wonder when that picture was taken, for a start.
The original fans' forum, which had a different structure to the current one, was then set up.
he agrees that they seem to be complaining about over-ambition without money to back it. Which I do not think is the RD way.
Brilliant result & Thuram was quality.
The Belgian businessman, who after obtaining the consent of the members of the FCC holds shares in the football match operations GmbH of tradition Association since early this year, has signaled in a letter to the mayor of Jena, Dr. Albrecht Schröter, its clear willingness to fund the project to support and provided funding in the amount of at least 7 million euros in view, to accept the information required by the city of Jena FC Carl Zeiss Jena own contribution.
Duchâtelet that has both client as well as operators of the resulting under a public-private partnership stadium in Belgium Sint-Truiden experience in this area: "The club needs a sound basis and is financially sustainable operating concept for a modern football stadium, to the alongside modern conference facilities and hotel capacity includes that are also for the city of Jena is of great interest. I am willing to provide expertise and financial resources to get this project together with city and club forward. "
Lutz Lindemann, club president of FCC. "This offer is more than just a signal - it is further proof that Roland Duchâtelet would like to accompany the FCC long term and develop together with us something that has the future and is financially viable. And that can now also be the stadium project. We thank Roland Duchâtelet for this work and hope that the issue of stadium construction in Jena can now be performed by endless decision-making processes to a happy end in which all - football, athletics, environment and the city of Jena -. Shall find "
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.fc-carlzeiss-jena.de/aktuelles/fcc-news/details/fcc_investor_roland_duchatelet_will_beim_stadionbau_helfen.html&prev=search
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.mdr.de/thueringen/ost-thueringen/jena_stadion_duchatelet100.html&prev=search
Thanks for posting that. Seems like a further example of RD investing for the long term. As he says in the latest CAFC interview, such investments often cost less than so called investment in players, yet their positive effect is much longer lasting. It does make the report of unrest among Jena fans more puzzling. I may have a connection to their fans which may shed light on it.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/sport/detail/-/specific/Ultras-protestieren-nach-Investoren-Einstieg-beim-FC-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-1330294232&usg=ALkJrhjjmDl7soNWR3U5rC6FzDoV5UWitQ
Plus this one
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/sport/detail/-/specific/Arena-in-Jena-trotz-7-Mio-Euro-von-Investor-in-Stadtverwaltung-umstritten-220329703&usg=ALkJrhgPiqL-W6tvCKYoCo-4KwtODqnpNQ
Ah now I think we are getting closer to understanding it. He may have made a move to get round "50+1", the German rule which keeps 51% in the hands of fans via the membership system. I am not 100% sure but that is what it looks like from that translation, and would explain the fans' ire. German fans are generally very protective of "50+1" - which I think is admirable - and there was a huge row in Leipzig (which is near Jena) when Red Bull tried the same trick. RD however may say that if he puts in a large amount of money he ought to have a majority stake in the entity. The fans will then say, "fine, but this entity (a GMbH) can go bust, what happens to our club then?"
I think that is the battleground, but will follow it up.
and the 5-0 defeat how has that affected the table, I see you moved up after your win Sunday but has the goal difference knocked you down now
@ PragueAddick you are very close in that - in Germany does not exist that a club only from one leader is - in standard we are just angry that he does only what he think and not listen to us- there is no communication we don't know nothing about eveything - he rules everything - he do also the job off TD so all the transfer does he do - now know coach perhaps he shall do that
https://twitter.com/Standard_RSCL
@defke is Ajdarevic injured or just not good enough
If this is the case and I am sceptical . What will happen when we get there ?
RD might be happy to do a Burnley ie get promoted every 3/4 years and retain parachute money and then use it to fund other parts of the network.
http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/sport/detail/-/specific/Ultras-protestieren-nach-Investoren-Einstieg-beim-FC-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-1330294232
In the meantime these may work :-)
Duchatelet appears to me to have made six independent investments. The network aspects may be a nice to have incidental.
Then again...I like the Stayen concept, especially the idea of a hotel with bedroom views over the pitch . Smart and classy way to utilise the space around a stadium. However...if I was an STVV fan and I found that the hotel and stuff is owned and operated by a separate company to that which owns the club, I'd worry about that. I know someone here who comes from Sint-T., who might help me find out about that
I guess my key point is that the operation of the network as we had envisaged it initially, i.e. the clubs being managed collectively and interacting to mutual benefit, does not appear to be central to Duchatelet's strategy for adding value and/or achieving his objectives, whatever they may be.
That doesn't mean that intra network loans won't continue, for example, it's just that this kind of activity may not be as central to Duchatelet's plans as we'd once imagined.
A €7m investment in Carl Zeiss Jena is a significant commitment. Meanwhile, we still have no network wide director of football, let alone any investment in shared infrastructure.
As you imply, Duchatelet is not very popular with SSTV fans and it's not hard to understand why, though they were very close to promotion last season and have made a terrific start to this one and seem less vociferous than they were, at least for now.
I would think that Duchatelet is a very honourable man who genuinely has the interests of his clubs at heart. However, the structure he has created at SSTV and what it appears he wants to do in Jena, if he can get away with it, may be much less benign when somebody less scupulous assumes ownership. Think Karl Oyston, who operates a hotel complex at Bloomfield Road, to imagine how events might evolve.