Not saying that he played well otherwise (I was not there), but from the look of that video, that goal was not at all his fault. Just a really good strike.
You never know, maybe he will settle in and maybe the defence will learn to play with his style of tending to punch rather than catch.
Give the guy a chance - we are currently letting in fewer goals per game with him in the team than we have with anyone else this season and the last time Alnwick played he let in three (granted there are extenuating cases for both these).
I thought on the first goal, one viewing on Sky, that Thuram went down in slow motion and should have saved it. That said we need to give him a chance.
Grobelaar was the king clown of goalkeepers, but he was also excellent .. most of the time
Its funny how Keepers can never win , a colleague of mine who follows the O's home and away blames Alnwick for their defeat at Rotherham and cannot understand why I am so sad he left . Their previous goalie Jakupovic who was on loan from Hull and got recalled genuinely is a world cup prospect for Bosnia.
Now I have got over the defeat by Wigan I just hope it is just time to adjust that Thuram needs and he improves and proves his credentials.
Posted just now on the Post Match Views thread and pertinent here, RedChaser said: I've watched both games Thuram has played in, unconventional, continental call it what you like. At Boro he 'Weetabixed ' the shot for their goal, and if you aren't old enough to remember the advert it was of a dodgy keeper who couldn't catch a cold but stopped everything once he had his Weetabix. To be fair we were all at the far end for both the Wigan goals so didn't have the benefit of slow mo but even in real time he looked as if, as Ooha said, he goes down late. IF you had seen what had preceded with the flaps, the weak punches and static positioning as balls whistled past the goal framework you would be as worried as Boogica as I am. What we needed in that last ten minutes was a keeper to dominate his area just like Alnwick did at Udders (I was there as well!) but no, we had someone who was creating more panic and uncertainty. I hope it is rustiness but I doubt it, if this guy becomes our first choice god help us although I'd be delighted if he proves me wrong and keeps us up. Defend him and make as many excuses for him as much as you want but I know what I have witnessed with my own eyes and it has not been encouraging.
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
I think the goal is the walls fault, if you pause it as the ball goes past the wall and look at whoever is on the end of the wall, they have turned to the side, you could also argue that the wall should have been placed better by the GK to cover off that post..
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
I wasnt at Middlesbro or Wigan so probably unfair to comment but I can see why the goals at Wigan could be attributed to keeper error.
GK position is not one to mess about with. Alnwick got his chance because of injury and proved himself to be better than Hamer.
I have never rated Hamer but at least you know what you are going to get with him (as do the defence) and the communication should be a lot better. I would have him back in now (when injury free), but that is never going to happen whilst the owner picks the side.
Keeper never expected the ball to go in that side of the goal. Indeed had the wall done it's job, the ball would not have gone in that side of the goal. The wall appears to squeeze together. The goal was not the keeper's fault but the fault of the player/ players in the wall.
Posted just now on the Post Match Views thread and pertinent here, RedChaser said: I've watched both games Thuram has payed in, unconventional, continental call it what you like. At Boro he 'Weetabixed ' the shot for their goal, and if you aren't old enough to remember the advert it was of a dodgy keeper who couldn't catch a cold but stopped everything once he had his Weetabix. To be fair we were all at the far end for both the Wigan goals so didn't have the benefit of slow mo but even in real time he looked as if, as Ooha said, he goes down late. IF you had seen what had preceded with the flaps, the weak punches and static positioning as balls whistled past the goal framework you would be as worried as Boogica as I am. What we needed in that last ten minutes was a keeper to dominate his area just like Alnwick did at Udders (I was there as well!) but no, we had someone who was creating more panic and uncertainty. I hope it is rustiness but I doubt it, if this guy becomes our first choice god help us although I'd be delighted if he proves me wrong and keeps us up. Defend him and make as many excuses for him as much as you want but I know what I have witnessed with my own eyes and it has not been encouraging.
Followed the 'match thread' on here and definately backs up what you are saying re Thuram.....sounds a tad dodgy to me.
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
So why didn't Hamer go to Orient then?
Hamer is injured and the O's needed a keeper desperately for Saturday because Jakupovic was recalled by Hull.
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
So why didn't Hamer go to Orient then?
Hamer is injured and the O's needed a keeper desperately for Saturday because Jakupovic was recalled by Hull.
Ah yes, forgot about Hamer being injured.
But then why didn't we loan Alnwick, rather than release him, if the club hasn't got faith in Hamer?
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
So why didn't Hamer go to Orient then?
Hamer is injured and the O's needed a keeper desperately for Saturday because Jakupovic was recalled by Hull.
Ah yes, forgot about Hamer being injured.
But then why didn't we loan Alnwick, rather than release him, if the club hasn't got faith in Hamer?
Because I live near their ground and have many friends who follow them I know a little bit about the internal going ons at Brisbane Road.
I suspect Orient did not want to be caught in the same situation as they had with Jakupovic ,so decided to offer a modest fee for Alnwick's registration , we saw with Pope when we recalled him from York that the rules are different on 28 day loans for goalies ,otherwise it makes even less sense.
As for Hamer I can't answer that but I have never been a member of the fan club.It is feast or famine with him in my view. On some occasions for example Brighton last season I thought he was superb on others utterly dreadful,personally I'm gutted we let Alnwick go.
For what it's worth there was a persistent negative undercurrent about Ben Hamer from the previous regime. It may be that this was passed on to Duchatelet, although why they would have an interest in doing so is unclear to me.
So why didn't Hamer go to Orient then?
Hamer is injured and the O's needed a keeper desperately for Saturday because Jakupovic was recalled by Hull.
Ah yes, forgot about Hamer being injured.
But then why didn't we loan Alnwick, rather than release him, if the club hasn't got faith in Hamer?
I didn't say "the club", I said the previous regime, meaning Slater and Jimenez. I've no idea what anyone else's view might be.
Thuram sounds like a good shot stopper who throws himself at everything (maybe a little too eccentric at times), but seems to flap at crosses. Deano was always a great shot stopper too but he used to flap at crosses (though i 100% had confidence in Deano to be there when it counted anyway so not digging him at all).
Alnwicks contract was up at the end of the season as was on a short term deal, Hamer is still Powells number 1 (will be interesting to see if he gets offered a new contract) and so with Thuram in Alnwick probably realised his place was in jeopardy one way or another so thought he might as well go somewhere and be guaranteed first choice. Personally i would like to have kept Alnwick as i think he was on form.
Thuram apparently can't speak much English so its going to take time to communicate with the defence. Though with Nego in who can speak multiple languages communcation might improve.
My worry with Thuram is that we are struggling as it is and our one saving grace was that our defence and keeper worked well together and now thats been unnecessarily disrupted. We weren't leaking many goals, we just weren't scoring which was why we are where we are.
My thoughts are he looks good and probably needs a run but if push comes to shove i'd rather Hamer was fit and back unless there is big improvement. I think he could have done better with all the goals he has conceded so far; though he has made some great saves to prevent more as well. If we can sort out scoring more than one goal a game i think us conceding the odd one is not going to be a problem. We need to work on our attacking play.
Redchaser touches on it, but no-one else has made the point that matters most to me: it's not just about a keeper's individual performance, but about how he gels with the whole defence so that they become a solid and reliable unit, able to cope under pressure - the goalie is the lynchpin of this - if the centre halves don't think he is going to come off the line and catch the ball, then they will be much more prone to panicky clearnaces and getting in each other's way. I've always thought of goalie as an even more important position than striker - not one to gamble with when you are in a relegation dog fight!!
Redchaser touches on it, but no-one else has made the point that matters most to me: it's not just about a keeper's individual performance, but about how he gels with the whole defence so that they become a solid and reliable unit, able to cope under pressure - the goalie is the lynchpin of this - if the centre halves don't think he is going to come off the line and catch the ball, then they will be much more prone to panicky clearnaces and getting in each other's way. I've always thought of goalie as an even more important position than striker - not one to gamble with when you are in a relegation dog fight!!
@WeegieAddick Totally agree but I assume it was Hobson's choice on Saturday with Phillips on the bench and Hamer still injured? On what I have seen of both keepers albeit 180 mins of Thuram it's Hamer all the way for me and no time in our situation to give somebody precious game time for a World Cup place, RD please note.
I think the goal is the walls fault, if you pause it as the ball goes past the wall and look at whoever is on the end of the wall, they have turned to the side, you could also argue that the wall should have been placed better by the GK to cover off that post..
I agree - when he jumps he's half in front of the next person in the wall. The ball seems to pass inches past him and certainly would have hit him had he stayed in position. Not only that, the ball ends up inches inside the post and inches away from Thuram's right hand. It just wasn't to be!
I was very disappointed with Thuram's performance, but I'm not going to blame him for the goal. Arguably the wall should have been slightly further to the right to allow for the left-footer's curl, but, as above, we're talking very small distances.
He probably doesn't even know how to direct the wall how he wants in English, without being funny, doubt he knows all their names to tell someone if they're not in the right place. The keeper needs to be super confident and very well known by players and vica verca, chucking him straight into the Championship is a huge mistake. Anytime he saves something its just flapping. Big presence but what goods that if he's letting in goals.
Painfully obvious where the ball was going to go, will never understand why we never put a man on either post.
Because then that Wigan guy who was standing in an offside position, blocking Thuram's view until just before the kick was taken could have stayed there, along with whatever other players they chose to put around the six-yard box.
Painfully obvious where the ball was going to go, will never understand why we never put a man on either post.
Because then that Wigan guy who was standing in an offside position, blocking Thuram's view until just before the kick was taken could have stayed there, along with whatever other players they chose to put around the six-yard box.
The guy was always going to have a shot from the set piece, the fact that you are reducing the options to where he puts the ball with thirty seconds left on the clock. Thuram was only going to flap at the ball or punch it if he did get to the shot as all afternoon, he only caught one of the shots,crosses or corners that came in.
Comments
You never know, maybe he will settle in and maybe the defence will learn to play with his style of tending to punch rather than catch.
Give the guy a chance - we are currently letting in fewer goals per game with him in the team than we have with anyone else this season and the last time Alnwick played he let in three (granted there are extenuating cases for both these).
I thought on the first goal, one viewing on Sky, that Thuram went down in slow motion and should have saved it. That said we need to give him a chance.
Grobelaar was the king clown of goalkeepers, but he was also excellent .. most of the time
Now I have got over the defeat by Wigan I just hope it is just time to adjust that Thuram needs and he improves and proves his credentials.
RedChaser said:
I've watched both games Thuram has played in, unconventional, continental call it what you like. At Boro he 'Weetabixed ' the shot for their goal, and if you aren't old enough to remember the advert it was of a dodgy keeper who couldn't catch a cold but stopped everything once he had his Weetabix. To be fair we were all at the far end for both the Wigan goals so didn't have the benefit of slow mo but even in real time he looked as if, as Ooha said, he goes down late. IF you had seen what had preceded with the flaps, the weak punches and static positioning as balls whistled past the goal framework you would be as worried as Boogica as I am. What we needed in that last ten minutes was a keeper to dominate his area just like Alnwick did at Udders (I was there as well!) but no, we had someone who was creating more panic and uncertainty. I hope it is rustiness but I doubt it, if this guy becomes our first choice god help us although I'd be delighted if he proves me wrong and keeps us up. Defend him and make as many excuses for him as much as you want but I know what I have witnessed with my own eyes and it has not been encouraging.
GK position is not one to mess about with. Alnwick got his chance because of injury and proved himself to be better than Hamer.
I have never rated Hamer but at least you know what you are going to get with him (as do the defence) and the communication should be a lot better. I would have him back in now (when injury free), but that is never going to happen whilst the owner picks the side.
Keeper never expected the ball to go in that side of the goal. Indeed had the wall done it's job, the ball would not have gone in that side of the goal. The wall appears to squeeze together. The goal was not the keeper's fault but the fault of the player/ players in the wall.
Hamer is injured and the O's needed a keeper desperately for Saturday because Jakupovic was recalled by Hull.
But then why didn't we loan Alnwick, rather than release him, if the club hasn't got faith in Hamer?
I suspect Orient did not want to be caught in the same situation as they had with Jakupovic ,so decided to offer a modest fee for Alnwick's registration , we saw with Pope when we recalled him from York that the rules are different on 28 day loans for goalies ,otherwise it makes even less sense.
As for Hamer I can't answer that but I have never been a member of the fan club.It is feast or famine with him in my view. On some occasions for example Brighton last season I thought he was superb on others utterly dreadful,personally I'm gutted we let Alnwick go.
Alnwicks contract was up at the end of the season as was on a short term deal, Hamer is still Powells number 1 (will be interesting to see if he gets offered a new contract) and so with Thuram in Alnwick probably realised his place was in jeopardy one way or another so thought he might as well go somewhere and be guaranteed first choice. Personally i would like to have kept Alnwick as i think he was on form.
Thuram apparently can't speak much English so its going to take time to communicate with the defence. Though with Nego in who can speak multiple languages communcation might improve.
My worry with Thuram is that we are struggling as it is and our one saving grace was that our defence and keeper worked well together and now thats been unnecessarily disrupted. We weren't leaking many goals, we just weren't scoring which was why we are where we are.
My thoughts are he looks good and probably needs a run but if push comes to shove i'd rather Hamer was fit and back unless there is big improvement. I think he could have done better with all the goals he has conceded so far; though he has made some great saves to prevent more as well. If we can sort out scoring more than one goal a game i think us conceding the odd one is not going to be a problem. We need to work on our attacking play.
I was very disappointed with Thuram's performance, but I'm not going to blame him for the goal. Arguably the wall should have been slightly further to the right to allow for the left-footer's curl, but, as above, we're talking very small distances.