Has Dave jones been given a chance with us? No, so logically you comment on his credibilities? (I'm not advocating a change for him either)
Anyway, what I'm implying is that a change is needed to kick some life into this team. CP is slowly suffocating the life out of them and something needs to be done before it's too late. Unfortunately the transfer window has been and gone so we can't sign anyone else so the only option is a change of management I think.
Has Dave jones been given a chance with us? No, so logically you comment on his credibilities? (I'm not advocating a change for him either)
Anyway, what I'm implying is that a change is needed to kick some life into this team. CP is slowly suffocating the life out of them and something needs to be done before it's too late. Unfortunately the transfer window has been and gone so we can't sign anyone else so the only option is a change of management I think.
No, you are advocating a change for 'anybody out there'.
Ok, if you're going to be a dick about it. Anyone else out there capable of coaching to this standard will have got more than 5 wins out of the last 27 with that squad. Out of the bottom 6 clubs we probably have one of the better squads and should be above the likes of those surrounding us.
Well at least you have now made a suggestion, unless you think I am putting words into your mouth. You think Dave Jones for the rest of the season. I think Chris Powell. Sorted, we have a difference of opinion.
9th last year, with basically a top league 1 side with hardly any strengthening
?
You are right, but we live for now and as it stands we are in the bottom 3 with hardly any strengthening.
I just wish he would be more confident and play a bit more attacking football instead of 90 mins of defending and 2 shots per match
Perhaps people should look at the long game then. Chris Powell is a motivator and galvaniser, he will shape this team but needs time!
Except we don't have time for the long game. Look, I badly want the guy to succeed but the stats from the last dozen games do not lie. Be honest, are you happy with the way the team are playing under him at the moment?
Last season we at least played or tried to play some football, this year with the basically the same team we are not. Ok he can only work with the tools that he is giveN, but most of the tools are his. In my honest opinion, CP has lost his mojo, he needs to find it quickly
Most of his 'tools' were purchased for League One. He might have some more options since yesterday, but we also had the heart ripped from our midfield and it's not been replaced.
Ian Liddle on Twitter spoke very highly about today's game and was highly complimentary of what Powell nearly pulled off, against a team that was playing in the Prem last year and has retained many of those players.
We have the right man for the job for 100 reasons and more. We'll only see just how good a tactician he can be when he has the right tools for the job - and the only time we gave him those he smashed 13 all time records.
Them League 1 players were bought because he thought they could cut it in the championship. They did last year but not this. As I said earlier, he appears to have lost his mojo and I really do hope he finds it very quick. I for one couldn't think of anyone better to manage us at the moment, but no one man is bigger than the club
Not all cut it (e.g. Taylor, BWP, Hollands) and the rest did so with the help of just a little Championship quality in Fuller and the odd loan or two, Obika in particular. He wasn't afforded that quality this year and had to make do with the likes of Simon Church.
I agree Powell isn't bigger than the club, but since he's been here it's had its heart back. I think a departure overly early would break it.
9th last year, with basically a top league 1 side with hardly any strengthening
?
You are right, but we live for now and as it stands we are in the bottom 3 with hardly any strengthening.
I just wish he would be more confident and play a bit more attacking football instead of 90 mins of defending and 2 shots per match
Perhaps people should look at the long game then. Chris Powell is a motivator and galvaniser, he will shape this team but needs time!
Except we don't have time for the long game. Look, I badly want the guy to succeed but the stats from the last dozen games do not lie. Be honest, are you happy with the way the team are playing under him at the moment?
Last season we at least played or tried to play some football, this year with the basically the same team we are not. Ok he can only work with the tools that he is giveN, but most of the tools are his. In my honest opinion, CP has lost his mojo, he needs to find it quickly
Most of his 'tools' were purchased for League One. He might have some more options since yesterday, but we also had the heart ripped from our midfield and it's not been replaced.
Ian Liddle on Twitter spoke very highly about today's game and was highly complimentary of what Powell nearly pulled off, against a team that was playing in the Prem last year and has retained many of those players.
We have the right man for the job for 100 reasons and more. We'll only see just how good a tactician he can be when he has the right tools for the job - and the only time we gave him those he smashed 13 all time records.
Them League 1 players were bought because he thought they could cut it in the championship. They did last year but not this. As I said earlier, he appears to have lost his mojo and I really do hope he finds it very quick. I for one couldn't think of anyone better to manage us at the moment, but no one man is bigger than the club
Not all cut it (e.g. Taylor, BWP, Hollands) and the rest did so with the help of just a little Championship quality in Fuller and the odd loan or two, Obika in particular. He wasn't afforded that quality this year and had to make do with the likes of Simon Church.
I agree Powell isn't bigger than the club, but since he's been here it's had its heart back. I think a departure overly early would break it.
Has Church not scored more goals so far this season in a struggling compared to Fuller in the whole of last season?
Because he's going to be successfull and I want it to be at Charlton. Not interested in losing the identity that this club has had over the years, sadly I think that is an old-fashioned sentimental view. I want this club to be successful as much as anyone but not at any cost. Just my opinion.
Interesting thought Seth but Roly won't appoint an old style British 'manager' as his people will bring players in and a European style coach will be appointed (as was the case at SL) to play a far more progressive style where we defend from the front with younger, hungry players.
Jones, CP and their ilk will most definitely not match Roly's profile.
Interesting thought Seth but Roly won't appoint an old style British 'manager' as his people will bring players in and a European style coach will be appointed (as was the case at SL) to play a far more progressive style where we defend from the front with younger, hungry players.
Jones, CP and their ilk will most definitely not match Roly's profile.
I get this.
Roland pays the piper after all, and in the end he can do what he likes. I am not particularly au fait with the European progressive style, but I am not convinced that Chris Powell is particularly 'old style'.
If Roland is basically taking the blank sheet of paper approach with Charlton Athletic it would be a shame to throw all of the babies out with the bathwater in my view.
There may be something in a synergy of 'old style' and 'European progressive' that would suit the context of English football, and it may be that Powell, who is open to learning and development (he goes on those courses and everything) can be the man to combine the best of all the worlds.
Nug has also referred to the 'soul' aspect of our club, indeed football has it everywhere in spades. It is not an enterprise of Robots, or an exact science. People who seek the passion of glory and success, fans and players alike, are likely to be passionate, emotional and aspirational folk, and who hold dear to the observances and sentiments that pervade and enrich that glorious football experience.
There is no doubt that Chris Powell ministers to the passionate, the tunnel jumps and so on, he is a feeling guy, and as such knows that we need to be more than a footballing experiment down here in South East London.
I really hope that Roland can recognise that yes we are 'a' club, but we're not only that, we are particular, we are Charlton Athletic a living breathing organism, and he should carefully check that bathwater for those babies.
A thoughtful piece Seth in which you've argued your point coherently.
However, Roly doesn't worry what you or me think as I suspect that he has his own blueprint in which the coach does just that and sets up the team to a prescribed style that would not allow his teams to defend from its own 18 yard line.
How I see it, Chris Powell is no longer Charlton manager. He is now Head Coach. He doesn't have a say in who comes in or who leaves. He's basically told "This is what you've got to work with, now get on with it"...............
If this was the case and CP is a man of dignity, he would've walked. I think it us far more simple than that.
Very few managers 'walk', it means they don't get their pay-off. Not saying CP is just staying for the money, because I don't think that is the case, but if I was in that position, I'd be 'you want me out, sack me, I'm not going to make it easy for you'.
Very few managers 'walk', it means they don't get their pay-off. Not saying CP is just staying for the money, because I don't think that is the case, but if I was in that position, I'd be 'you want me out, sack me, I'm not going to make it easy for you'.
Why not, give him until the end of the season. Can't do any worse than the current regime can he? 5 OUT OF 27.
Of course he's won 5 out of 27, the midfield available to him consisted of Green, Pritchard and Harriot. I'd love to have seen someone else do better.
He has also had Gower, Hollands, Jackson, Cousins and Stephens(Up until Thursday) at his disposal. The problem is that not only are they not great attacking players but it doesn't help when when they keep getting played out of position.
Very few managers 'walk', it means they don't get their pay-off. Not saying CP is just staying for the money, because I don't think that is the case, but if I was in that position, I'd be 'you want me out, sack me, I'm not going to make it easy for you'.
Good job you ain't in that position then
True enough, but thus far Powell hasn't walked, so at this point in time, he could well be thinking the same as I would. I think he knows he's a dead man walking as far as the manager's job goes, but what does he do? Whatever he does he will be criticised, leave and fans might be annoyed that he left us in the mire, stay and other fans will continue to blame him for everything that's going wrong.
Clearly a lot of the issues we've had on the pitch this season stem from the turmoil surrounding the club. It's hard to be a professional when all about you is full of uncertainty. This year the team has had the poor pitch to deal with, cancelled/postponed games, uncertainty over contracts, blatant lies from Slater and Jiminez about selling the club, uncertainty about the managers future. Add all this to the fact that we've just sold a couple of our better players and there hasn't been the investment required to keep us in the Championship, and you can see where many of our problems lie.
I'm not saying Powell is innocent in all this, ever since he became manager he has constantly made poor tactical decisions, particularly in his use of substitutions. There have obviously been times when he just plain got the tactics wrong against opponents, which to be fair, is bound to happen, he is still on a learning curve. I do think however that he hasn't learned from his mistakes quickly enough as far as his substitutions are concerned and he continually makes the same mistakes in this area.
That said, I still back him, I still want him to stay, we've seen what he can do with a team that has the right amount of investment for the division they are playing with, and with a team that has it right from a mental/motivational point of view.
Somehow how he managed to put out a team with 4 league debutants and 2 others making only their 2nd appearance come within a whisker of snatching a win against an experienced and in form team away from home.
Somehow how he managed to put out a team with 4 league debutants and 2 others making only their 2nd appearance come within a whisker of snatching a win against an experienced and in form team away from home.
How many points we get for a whisker of snatching a win Nug?
Fair enough a good effort under the circumstances but wether we lose by 1 goal or 5, it's a loss.
I really do hope we win next weekend as I do fear for his future if we lose
Somehow how he managed to put out a team with 4 league debutants and 2 others making only their 2nd appearance come within a whisker of snatching a win against an experienced and in form team away from home.
How many points we get for a whisker of snatching a win Nug?
Fair enough a good effort under the circumstances but wether we lose by 1 goal or 5, it's a loss.
I really do hope we win next weekend as I do fear for his future if we lose
How many points did you expect us to get with 6 new players, some who arrived in the last week?
Oh and I do think it makes a difference whether we lose by 1 or 5. In my opinion we didn't need major surgery, we are not cast adrift at the bottom. We needed to add some quality. Reza and 2 decent midfielders would have done that for me and no outgoings.
Thing is people keep having an excuse every week as to why we should be expected to lose.........xxx was out injured, 6 new players, Wigan are a top team (actually Doncaster beat them and they were mid table when we played them) etc. If games are essentially a write off versus a team in mid table (never mind what they look like on paper), then when can we expect to win? If we want to stay up, then we will need to expect victories against better teams than Wigan tbh. IMO our team is better on paper than Birmingham and we are at home next week. If the same issues come up again in that game, then Powell and the players will have NO excuses. Must must win. Nothing else is good enough.
So 6 new players in a team should immediately be beating a team that hasn't lost at home since early December? Fair enough guess we disagree, I think Powell has been given a no win situation for him.
The most important thing now is that the uncertainty ends. Either CP should get a new contract and be backed, or Roland should sack him promptly and bring in a replacement.
I am uncomfortable with how polarised we are as fans. Some of those who laud CP do not help by shooting down in flames anyone who offers criticism, or by constantly referring to him as SCP. The arguments presented that he will inevitably get better, that there is no alternative,or that somehow there is no managerial responsibility for our current predicament are all flawed (although I suspect laudable in intent).
On the other side the constant demands for CP's head every time he has lost a game and the rather unpleasant and absolute terms used to do this do not help.
I like CP and think he has the potential to develop. I would keep him. However he does have areas he needs to improve upon and is not yet the great Manager that some laud him as.
As for Roland, I may be wrong but I think he brought us to be the Jewell in the crown of his little football empire and think the idea thad we are somehow a feeder club is neither likely or born out of truth since all of the traffic is one way. Personally I think it makes sense to use players from his empire and gives us a far wider perspective re players.The idea he asset stripping just does not stand up - what assets? The one being mooted that he wants us to be relegated is very unlikely considering how much money could be lost by being in a League One
When he went to Liege he eventually sacked a loved manager and sold the fans favourite players. He then invested in youth and a new manager . Now they are top of the Belgium league and playing in the Champions league. He dislikes paying over the odds for players and appears to believe that the best way to business success is by the team doing well and keeping football as cheap as possible. Hence he has actually reduced ticket and season prices. Whoever the Standard fan was who warned us all he was plainly wrong.
Just because Roland hasn't come I given CP a ten year contract and loads of money to buy players he is the devil incarnate. Not someone who has spent a fortune rescuing us and has propelled his other major club to the zenith.
Oh and I do think it makes a difference whether we lose by 1 or 5. In my opinion we didn't need major surgery, we are not cast adrift at the bottom. We needed to add some quality. Reza and 2 decent midfielders would have done that for me and no outgoings.
Your right Nug, the team didn't need major surgery but to have the attitude that it's ok to lose by 1 every week is plain wrong. Could you imagine SIR Alex saying ' oh well, we only got beat 1-0 again' after another loss by a single goal. We have to be more ruthless in matches and not the soft touch we currently are. I believe that CP can instill this in the team as he did in the 101 season, but he has to be quick as time is running out.
Comments
Anyway, what I'm implying is that a change is needed to kick some life into this team. CP is slowly suffocating the life out of them and something needs to be done before it's too late. Unfortunately the transfer window has been and gone so we can't sign anyone else so the only option is a change of management I think.
You think Dave Jones for the rest of the season.
I think Chris Powell.
Sorted, we have a difference of opinion.
I agree Powell isn't bigger than the club, but since he's been here it's had its heart back. I think a departure overly early would break it.
We love the masala batter fish & chips at the chippy near the Bescott Stadium????
Jones, CP and their ilk will most definitely not match Roly's profile.
Roland pays the piper after all, and in the end he can do what he likes. I am not particularly au fait with the European progressive style, but I am not convinced that Chris Powell is particularly 'old style'.
If Roland is basically taking the blank sheet of paper approach with Charlton Athletic it would be a shame to throw all of the babies out with the bathwater in my view.
There may be something in a synergy of 'old style' and 'European progressive' that would suit the context of English football, and it may be that Powell, who is open to learning and development (he goes on those courses and everything) can be the man to combine the best of all the worlds.
Nug has also referred to the 'soul' aspect of our club, indeed football has it everywhere in spades. It is not an enterprise of Robots, or an exact science. People who seek the passion of glory and success, fans and players alike, are likely to be passionate, emotional and aspirational folk, and who hold dear to the observances and sentiments that pervade and enrich that glorious football experience.
There is no doubt that Chris Powell ministers to the passionate, the tunnel jumps and so on, he is a feeling guy, and as such knows that we need to be more than a footballing experiment down here in South East London.
I really hope that Roland can recognise that yes we are 'a' club, but we're not only that, we are particular, we are Charlton Athletic a living breathing organism, and he should carefully check that bathwater for those babies.
However, Roly doesn't worry what you or me think as I suspect that he has his own blueprint in which the coach does just that and sets up the team to a prescribed style that would not allow his teams to defend from its own 18 yard line.
Clearly a lot of the issues we've had on the pitch this season stem from the turmoil surrounding the club. It's hard to be a professional when all about you is full of uncertainty. This year the team has had the poor pitch to deal with, cancelled/postponed games, uncertainty over contracts, blatant lies from Slater and Jiminez about selling the club, uncertainty about the managers future. Add all this to the fact that we've just sold a couple of our better players and there hasn't been the investment required to keep us in the Championship, and you can see where many of our problems lie.
I'm not saying Powell is innocent in all this, ever since he became manager he has constantly made poor tactical decisions, particularly in his use of substitutions. There have obviously been times when he just plain got the tactics wrong against opponents, which to be fair, is bound to happen, he is still on a learning curve. I do think however that he hasn't learned from his mistakes quickly enough as far as his substitutions are concerned and he continually makes the same mistakes in this area.
That said, I still back him, I still want him to stay, we've seen what he can do with a team that has the right amount of investment for the division they are playing with, and with a team that has it right from a mental/motivational point of view.
Fair enough a good effort under the circumstances but wether we lose by 1 goal or 5, it's a loss.
I really do hope we win next weekend as I do fear for his future if we lose
I am uncomfortable with how polarised we are as fans. Some of those who laud CP do not help by shooting down in flames anyone who offers criticism, or by constantly referring to him as SCP. The arguments presented that he will inevitably get better, that there is no alternative,or that somehow there is no managerial responsibility for our current predicament are all flawed (although I suspect laudable in intent).
On the other side the constant demands for CP's head every time he has lost a game and the rather unpleasant and absolute terms used to do this do not help.
I like CP and think he has the potential to develop. I would keep him. However he does have areas he needs to improve upon and is not yet the great Manager that some laud him as.
As for Roland, I may be wrong but I think he brought us to be the Jewell in the crown of his little football empire and think the idea thad we are somehow a feeder club is neither likely or born out of truth since all of the traffic is one way. Personally I think it makes sense to use players from his empire and gives us a far wider perspective re players.The idea he asset stripping just does not stand up - what assets? The one being mooted that he wants us to be relegated is very unlikely considering how much money could be lost by being in a League One
When he went to Liege he eventually sacked a loved manager and sold the fans favourite players. He then invested in youth and a new manager . Now they are top of the Belgium league and playing in the Champions league. He dislikes paying over the odds for players and appears to believe that the best way to business success is by the team doing well and keeping football as cheap as possible. Hence he has actually reduced ticket and season prices. Whoever the Standard fan was who warned us all he was plainly wrong.
Just because Roland hasn't come I given CP a ten year contract and loads of money to buy players he is the devil incarnate. Not someone who has spent a fortune rescuing us and has propelled his other major club to the zenith.