As I said in the China Syndrome article we don't know why he bought the club.
People are guessing and making assumptions which is fine but we don't know and we won't until he tells us.
I keep saying it and trolls like Off-it think they are witty mentioning it out of context but there are six questions only one of which we have an answer to.
People said "why do we need to know, it's what happens on the pitch that matters" under the old regime. The irony now being that the pitch is in the state it is due to mis-management at senior level and the playing side has been left weak due to prolonged lack of investment and no long term plan.
The five questions need to be answered by Roland not be guessed at by fans who don't have all the info.
1. Who owns the club? We now know 2. What is the business plan? 3. What is the level of investment? 4. What are the plans for the Valley? 5. What are the plans for the Academy (whispers are very positive but would be better if confirmed by the club) 6. What is the exit strategy? (You may ask "he's only just arrived, why ask when he plans to leave but as we learnt with TJ and MS how they plan to get out is crucial).
No apologies for repeating this again because the questions still haven't been answered.
I don't know anything about Belgian tax laws, but seeing as we're now owned, in effect, by a Belgian company, could he offset our losses (say £7m) against the profits of his main business to avoid paying corporation tax?
That's an interesting question, and it will lead to others. Which company owned by RD has bought us, and is it the same one that owns the other clubs? If there is indeed one company owning all five clubs, don't be surprised if in fact it isn't registered in Belgium, but in the Netherlands, since in that country the corporation tax level is sweet fa, I think 5%. Most of the big advertising agency networks consolidate their national companies in Europe into a company registered in the Netherlands.
Seems to me those who continually slagged the last owners and wanted the club to be sold finally got their wish. I was never convinced the previous owners were as bad as painted by those on here. Some I suspect with a personal axe to grind. Time will tell of course.
can't believe he spent £20m on us to be in league 1 that's for sure...at the moment it's baffling to most as to why he bought us, however no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes right now - suspect we'll have a clearer picture come the weekend
What happens if we get relegated and RD can balance the books in league 1 - finishing upper half of the table with loanees and cup runs?
Effectively making us a feeder for Standard liege?
Scary thought - or is this an impossible scenario?
I recently posted on the Avram Grant thread that I could see him creating a football Business, run as a potential profit earner and healthy asset. This seems to be confirmed this morning in the Mail who talk about his owning 5 Clubs in 5 Countries, and wanting to bring it together as a profit centre. That should help us all to understand his motives.
That'll need more explanation. What is a profit centre?
You've got five clubs which are all registered businesses in their own right, and they have to file their accounts as separate national businesses, each one makes its own profit (or because this is football) its loss. Granpa is arguing that RD would not worry about the individual result if, consolidated across the group, he makes a profit.
If that is his business plan, there are a number of implications and even more imponderables. And it has never been done before. There was the ENIC case but I am not sure if they treated their clubs as one profit centre.
Let me know if I explained that OK. Its an important point which Granpa is raising here.
Liege are doing very well without us being their feeder club, with the rewards from reaching the premiership its a red herring if you ask me, build a good talent network however and you may be able to sustain premiership football without blowing all that reward. I also get the impression he thinks he's made a success there and is now after a bigger prize. At least with this guy if we do get relegated there is some cash there, the last lot seemed to be lacking that since 2012, so in that sense we are better off. They also have a track record of success which the other lot didnt.
I don't know anything about Belgian tax laws, but seeing as we're now owned, in effect, by a Belgian company, could he offset our losses (say £7m) against the profits of his main business to avoid paying corporation tax?
Possibly, yes. But why and to what end? Making any decision, let alone a business decision solely for tax reasons is not usually a very good idea. Let's say you make €10mn profit in Belgium. After whatever the corporation tax is you can trouser the balance, let's say €8mn in dividends, pay your personal tax and be very happy. Or you spend £20mn(?) on a UK football club knowing you will make a loss of £7mn per annum and offset the loss against tax. But you are still down £20mn and walk away with nothing in the way of dividend either just to save a couple of million in tax - I wouldn't do it, would you?
___They have no idea of our playing strengths and weaknesses other than what CP has told them. ---Their only solution to the weaknesses in our side is to loan players who cant get in SLs team.What a load of shit that strategy is, we have enough shit players already. ---RD clearly wont or cant spend any money. ---Their other idea is to bring on the kids in order to compete with the teams that have the dosh, yes that might work in 2 or 3 seasons,assuming we are still in this division. ---His "previous" is to sell the top players in his side to finance his long term strategy. It cant work if we go down.
Yes i know they have only been here a short time but plenty long enough to sort out CPs contract (which should have been the first thing).
We need Championship proven players not some cast offs from Belgium who EVERYONE has to Goggle to find they have played on Wandstead Flats------pony load of crap.
CP and his staff get paid to play be their we the FANS deserve better than this.
I don't think anyones disagreeing we need to spend to stay in the division, how RD intends to do it is the puzzle, I wonder if Doncaster was a tester. And of course there are still several days of the window left.
RD does not have a track record of spending his money at the football clubs he owns. Do not be surprised if the clock strikes midnight on the 31st and we have not spent a penny on anybody.
Youth & loans between all the clubs he owns is his remit, we need to get used to this ethos.
___They have no idea of our playing strengths and weaknesses other than what CP has told them. ---Their only solution to the weaknesses in our side is to loan players who cant get in SLs team.What a load of shit that strategy is, we have enough shit players already. ---RD clearly wont or cant spend any money. ---Their other idea is to bring on the kids in order to compete with the teams that have the dosh, yes that might work in 2 or 3 seasons,assuming we are still in this division. ---His "previous" is to sell the top players in his side to finance his long term strategy. It cant work if we go down.
Yes i know they have only been here a short time but plenty long enough to sort out CPs contract (which should have been the first thing).
We need Championship proven players not some cast offs from Belgium who EVERYONE has to Goggle to find they have played on Wandstead Flats------pony load of crap.
CP and his staff get paid to play be their we the FANS deserve better than this.
1. How do you know that's their only solution? It's almost certainly the most immediately accessible one, which is no doubt why we've seen it already, but let's wait and see what else happens in the next couple of days and in the emergency loan window.
2. How do you know RD can't or won't spend money? He's only just taken the club over, he won't want to see us drop into League One I'm sure.
3. Chris Powell was already 'bringing on the kids' because he didn't have a big enough squad to do otherwise. Worked pretty well in the case of Cousins.
4. If this was his strategy - to sell now for longer term progress back to the Prem, rather than keep mediocre players and stay mediocre - would you take it?
We've had way too much short termism at Charlton in recent times. The slow building of the club in the Curbs-Murray days were arguably the most successful in our history. It was all undone because we did the opposite, gambled with future money and panicked when things were going wrong.
No-one wants to go into League One, least of all RD I'm sure. I'm still confident we can survive, because Powell's always managed to turn round poor runs in the past - I agree it will take decent and fit players to achieve, and we're hamstrung considerably by our pitch, but let's stay positive and not lose faith so quickly.
___They have no idea of our playing strengths and weaknesses other than what CP has told them. ---Their only solution to the weaknesses in our side is to loan players who cant get in SLs team.What a load of shit that strategy is, we have enough shit players already. ---RD clearly wont or cant spend any money. ---Their other idea is to bring on the kids in order to compete with the teams that have the dosh, yes that might work in 2 or 3 seasons,assuming we are still in this division. ---His "previous" is to sell the top players in his side to finance his long term strategy. It cant work if we go down.
Yes i know they have only been here a short time but plenty long enough to sort out CPs contract (which should have been the first thing).
We need Championship proven players not some cast offs from Belgium who EVERYONE has to Goggle to find they have played on Wandstead Flats------pony load of crap.
CP and his staff get paid to play be their we the FANS deserve better than this.
1. How do you know that's their only solution? It's almost certainly the most immediately accessible one, which is no doubt why we've seen it already, but let's wait and see what else happens in the next couple of days and in the emergency loan window.
2. How do you know RD can't or won't spend money? He's only just taken the club over, he won't want to see us drop into League One I'm sure. 3. Chris Powell was already 'bringing on the kids' because he didn't have a big enough squad to do otherwise. Worked pretty well in the case of Cousins.
4. If this was his strategy - to sell now for longer term progress back to the Prem, rather than keep mediocre players and stay mediocre - would you take it?
We've had way too much short termism at Charlton in recent times. The slow building of the club in the Curbs-Murray days were arguably the most successful in our history. It was all undone because we did the opposite, gambled with future money and panicked when things were going wrong.
No-one wants to go into League One, least of all RD I'm sure. I'm still confident we can survive, because Powell's always managed to turn round poor runs in the past - I agree it will take decent and fit players to achieve, and we're hamstrung considerably by our pitch, but let's stay positive and not lose faith so quickly.
We will know in the next 72 hours how much he wont want to see us in league 1
RD does not have a track record of spending his money at the football clubs he owns. Do not be surprised if the clock strikes midnight on the 31st and we have not spent a penny on anybody.
Youth & loans between all the clubs he owns is his remit, we need to get used to this ethos.
I think this is a little misleading. He may avoid splashing his own cash, but his Standard Liege have spent around £10m in the last two seasons. They've done this by generating funds, sales around £11m, but looking at where they are in the table it seems to have worked for them.
It would be a bit like getting £2.5m for Stephens and investing in two or three £1m players that made the overall squad better. Or if you like, selling Danny Mills for £4.5m and getting Dean Kiely, Graham Stuart, Greg Shields and Andy Todd in.
Time will tell, but the financial opportunity at Charlton is surely greater than any of his other clubs.
Seems to me those who continually slagged the last owners and wanted the club to be sold finally got their wish. I was never convinced the previous owners were as bad as painted by those on here. Some I suspect with a personal axe to grind. Time will tell of course.
I accept you will discount any view from me, but do you in no way understand that the previous owners are responsible for the state of the pitch, the contract situation and the imbalance and weakness of the squad? Is everything fine and if not how did we get to this situation?
If you want an objective view of Tony Jimenez, I suggest you read the transcript of the Wise case and in particular the comments of the judge. Or did the judge have an agenda, too?
Can i ask RD one question , why did you buy CAFC for approx £15 million when as a division one outfit we will be worth £1 , the price the previous owners paid ? You are throwing your money down the pan !!
I wrote this piece on the loans side yesterday, but it also occurs perhaps a small point to me that these loans are not normal ones between two separate clubs, but they are between teams within the same sporting organisation so the loyalty factor may apply differently.
Rich. I cannot under any circumstances believe that RD did not consider the current state of the squad he was buying before he decided to go ahead, and indeed before agreeing the price he paid. The question is, what football expertise did he use to make that assessment, if any. There is the possibility that Slater span him a yarn, and he bought it.
Roland Duchatelet’s takeover of Charlton Athletic is part of a plan to make multi-ownership of clubs across Europe work by combining finances to produce a yearly profit. The multi-millionaire Belgian entrepreneur, under his football umbrella company Staprix, now runs five mainly lower-league clubs in five countries — Charlton (England), Standard Liege (Belgium), Ujpest (Hungary), Carl Zeiss Jena (Germany) and AD Alcorcon (Spain).
The willingness to spend 600k the pitch (maybe more who knows) suggests that RD is willing to cough up if deemed necessary. ie. he can't loan or free transfer a new pitch.
If the players brought in are of sufficient standard by the time of the window closing then maybe we have our anserr. Let's say we do get a full back, striker and winger by some means or other.
The player and managerial contract situation may be due to a number of things, a new broom wanting to run the rule over players and manager, some players being unwilling to sign new terms either because they are reduced or they can get more elsewhere, or because they don't know who the manager will be.
Whatever the reason many will say its not the way to do things; and also how much of that is the new guy and how much is the old lot is up for debate.
Until the pitch has been sorted i.e. drainage repaired and turf replaced there is no proof that this money will ever be spent. It will not be much good having the best pitch in League 1 next season!
Roland Duchatelet’s takeover of Charlton Athletic is part of a plan to make multi-ownership of clubs across Europe work by combining finances to produce a yearly profit. The multi-millionaire Belgian entrepreneur, under his football umbrella company Staprix, now runs five mainly lower-league clubs in five countries — Charlton (England), Standard Liege (Belgium), Ujpest (Hungary), Carl Zeiss Jena (Germany) and AD Alcorcon (Spain).
Same journalist used by Slater to leak stuff in the run up to the sale. And doesn't tell us much. I'd guess he got this from Slater.
For example. If football clubs are generally loss making all over Europe, which they are, and most of the costs which outstrip revenues are player wages, then how do you conjure a profit by combining five loss-making units? This would only be possible if either revenues could be increased by cross selling, or costs reduced by shared service operations. Well I don't know about you, but I'm not about to get a season ticket for Karl Zeiss Jena, nor do I think that Yann can turn out for both us and Standard in the same season. So where does the profit come from?
Rikofold read the first few words " i dont understand it at all"-----------and at the moment as can be seen by many people on various threads on CL im not the only one.
Rich. I cannot under any circumstances believe that RD did not consider the current state of the squad he was buying before he decided to go ahead, and indeed before agreeing the price he paid. The question is, what football expertise did he use to make that assessment, if any. There is the possibility that Slater span him a yarn, and he bought it.
Agreed, and it would be equally hard to imagine he overlooked the comparative cost of the current squad and their league position as part of that analysis.
The worry for me lies in his conclusions. If he feels the squad is OK but the manager is poor then we might be in for a ride - but then surely a decision would have been taken earlier in the window.
Comments
People are guessing and making assumptions which is fine but we don't know and we won't until he tells us.
I keep saying it and trolls like Off-it think they are witty mentioning it out of context but there are six questions only one of which we have an answer to.
People said "why do we need to know, it's what happens on the pitch that matters" under the old regime. The irony now being that the pitch is in the state it is due to mis-management at senior level and the playing side has been left weak due to prolonged lack of investment and no long term plan.
The five questions need to be answered by Roland not be guessed at by fans who don't have all the info.
1. Who owns the club? We now know
2. What is the business plan?
3. What is the level of investment?
4. What are the plans for the Valley?
5. What are the plans for the Academy (whispers are very positive but would be better if confirmed by the club)
6. What is the exit strategy? (You may ask "he's only just arrived, why ask when he plans to leave but as we learnt with TJ and MS how they plan to get out is crucial).
No apologies for repeating this again because the questions still haven't been answered.
the planmulti club ownershipEffectively making us a feeder for Standard liege?
Scary thought - or is this an impossible scenario?
Buy struggling club
Bolster their ranks with surplus journeymen from elsewhere in your empire
?????
Profit
To be fair, it's more coherent than the last two incumbents
Let's say you make €10mn profit in Belgium. After whatever the corporation tax is you can trouser the balance, let's say €8mn in dividends, pay your personal tax and be very happy. Or you spend £20mn(?) on a UK football club knowing you will make a loss of £7mn per annum and offset the loss against tax. But you are still down £20mn and walk away with nothing in the way of dividend either just to save a couple of million in tax - I wouldn't do it, would you?
___They have no idea of our playing strengths and weaknesses other than what CP has told them.
---Their only solution to the weaknesses in our side is to loan players who cant get in SLs team.What a load of shit that strategy is, we have enough shit players already.
---RD clearly wont or cant spend any money.
---Their other idea is to bring on the kids in order to compete with the teams that have the dosh, yes that might work in 2 or 3 seasons,assuming we are still in this division.
---His "previous" is to sell the top players in his side to finance his long term strategy. It cant work if we go down.
Yes i know they have only been here a short time but plenty long enough to sort out CPs contract (which should have been the first thing).
We need Championship proven players not some cast offs from Belgium who EVERYONE has to Goggle to find they have played on Wandstead Flats------pony load of crap.
CP and his staff get paid to play be their we the FANS deserve better than this.
Youth & loans between all the clubs he owns is his remit, we need to get used to this ethos.
2. How do you know RD can't or won't spend money? He's only just taken the club over, he won't want to see us drop into League One I'm sure.
3. Chris Powell was already 'bringing on the kids' because he didn't have a big enough squad to do otherwise. Worked pretty well in the case of Cousins.
4. If this was his strategy - to sell now for longer term progress back to the Prem, rather than keep mediocre players and stay mediocre - would you take it?
We've had way too much short termism at Charlton in recent times. The slow building of the club in the Curbs-Murray days were arguably the most successful in our history. It was all undone because we did the opposite, gambled with future money and panicked when things were going wrong.
No-one wants to go into League One, least of all RD I'm sure. I'm still confident we can survive, because Powell's always managed to turn round poor runs in the past - I agree it will take decent and fit players to achieve, and we're hamstrung considerably by our pitch, but let's stay positive and not lose faith so quickly.
It would be a bit like getting £2.5m for Stephens and investing in two or three £1m players that made the overall squad better. Or if you like, selling Danny Mills for £4.5m and getting Dean Kiely, Graham Stuart, Greg Shields and Andy Todd in.
Time will tell, but the financial opportunity at Charlton is surely greater than any of his other clubs.
If you want an objective view of Tony Jimenez, I suggest you read the transcript of the Wise case and in particular the comments of the judge. Or did the judge have an agenda, too?
I wrote this piece on the loans side yesterday, but it also occurs perhaps a small point to me that these loans are not normal ones between two separate clubs, but they are between teams within the same sporting organisation so the loyalty factor may apply differently.
Rich. I cannot under any circumstances believe that RD did not consider the current state of the squad he was buying before he decided to go ahead, and indeed before agreeing the price he paid. The question is, what football expertise did he use to make that assessment, if any. There is the possibility that Slater span him a yarn, and he bought it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2547759/Hodgson-plots-relaxed-route-World-Cup-bid-avoid-Capellos-mistakes-Charles-Sale.html
If the players brought in are of sufficient standard by the time of the window closing then maybe we have our anserr. Let's say we do get a full back, striker and winger by some means or other.
The player and managerial contract situation may be due to a number of things, a new broom wanting to run the rule over players and manager, some players being unwilling to sign new terms either because they are reduced or they can get more elsewhere, or because they don't know who the manager will be.
Whatever the reason many will say its not the way to do things; and also how much of that is the new guy and how much is the old lot is up for debate.
For example. If football clubs are generally loss making all over Europe, which they are, and most of the costs which outstrip revenues are player wages, then how do you conjure a profit by combining five loss-making units? This would only be possible if either revenues could be increased by cross selling, or costs reduced by shared service operations. Well I don't know about you, but I'm not about to get a season ticket for Karl Zeiss Jena, nor do I think that Yann can turn out for both us and Standard in the same season. So where does the profit come from?
read the first few words " i dont understand it at all"-----------and at the moment as can be seen by many people on various threads on CL im not the only one.
The worry for me lies in his conclusions. If he feels the squad is OK but the manager is poor then we might be in for a ride - but then surely a decision would have been taken earlier in the window.