Pensions are a scam IMO, working and paying into something that you might not even live to see is wrong, an article on the BBC website yesterday said a child born now would have to work until they are 77 before they receive a state pension.
I've been working since I was 16 , I'm 44 now where has all the money gone that I've paid in?
Don't rely on the government to look after you (any party) in retirement they can't afford to , the system doesn't affect politicians , it's run for their benefit.
Its bad enough see blokes in their 60s shuffling around building sites after 40+ years of manual work. Making people work on into their 70s and having to work well over 50 years in a manual job is shocking.
Why are people not up in arms? Apathy in this country is ridiculous. We should be taking the French lead. They went mental at the mention of raising the retirement age
And the french economy is the only major economy in Europe not growing - the Germans, Italians and Spanish are all growing so we don't hear so much about Eurozone crisis anymore. US and European governments will not be able to afford the health, pension and benefits bills in 30-50 years time so perhaps people can start talking about alternatives now? A higher retirement age is one obvious way. I note the current government refuse to look at NHS reductions openly because it is way too toxic at the ballot box.
I can see this causing huge social unrest in years to come, when youngsters finally work out what it means to them. The gap between the haves & have-nots will undoubtedly grow and we will have to have made provisions for ourselves.
Worrying about a retirement age will mean nothing as we all seem to believe that there'll be no state pension for us anyway!
Don't understand why nobody wouldn't have a private pension type scheme.
That being said, all employers will now have to pay into your pension if you do. Take advantage of it.
Absolutely - take every penny you can from an employer in a pension scheme. BUT - and I stress that I am not a financial adviser - I have for some time now considered that ISA investments are better than a pension scheme. Of course if you can afford both great. With an ISA you get tax-free income in retirement while keeping the capital value and any growth. With a pension its tax-efficient now but the future income will be taxable and is provided either with the total loss of capital through annuity purchase or gradual loss of capital through draw-down.
I'd guess charges which have a major impact on capital growth are likely to be less in a stocks & shares ISA too.
Those that think the higher retirement ages are a good idea, can they just answer a few points......
1) Companies, as has been proven even though it's illegal, are unlikely to employ older people. So they're just gonna be on the dole for longer 'til they can claim pension therefore not contributing to the pension payments and draining the economy further.
2) seeing as more and more jobs are becoming automated, there is a huge excess of graduates to the jobs available already and an influx of foreign labour; If by some miracle companies do start keeping/employing older people for longer, what jobs are the younger people going to do? So more youngsters on the dole and therefore not contributing to the pension pot.
3) what happens to people in manually demanding jobs or emergency response services?
It's almost as if capitalism and treating public services as businesses doesn't work in a social context, but obviously that can't be right.
I agree that child benefit should be scrapped though or at least limited to 1 child. It was brought in to encourage and assist with population growth after the war when it was needed. One thing we're not short of is population and if anything should be looking to reduce it. If you can't afford kids don't have them. Having kids isn't a right and certainly not a personal decision that I should be expected to subsidise.
Think that the DWP have been pushing for this for some time...... Problem is they have already raised the retirement age of woman from 60 to 65, and above a couple of years ago on a scale that is far too acute for the people concerned. You need time to plan and invest for retirement, unless you a very wealthy. And in that situation you would probably have a decent investment portfolio and savings. Having been made redundant for some time I 'downsized', and cut my outgoings, and paid of the credit cards. I am currently working on a zero hours contract , for basic min till Christmas working in the warehouse, and filling the shelves, just as I was as a student 40 odd years ago.........'The results of a higher education' as Frank Zappa once quipped. Do not qualify for any benefit because the wife works, and my little public service pension tips us over the benefit scale. So a couple of years to go before the megabucks of the state pension kicks in!. Frankly working in a job in my industry seems a hopeless quest. If they think ( who ever they are!) that people in certain jobs can work after 65 they are deluded? and wrong. If people want to work on, good luck to them. People have not in the past 5 years just suddenly got to reach an older age, it has been over a sustained period. But what is the point in living longer if you are alone, broke, and unhealthy?. Yes I could have paid in to a pension earlier, but then I could have done a lot of things.
Don't understand why nobody wouldn't have a private pension type scheme.
That being said, all employers will now have to pay into your pension if you do. Take advantage of it.
Inability to afford it for older workers when younger and the derisory returns from doing it at an older age mean it simply isn't worthwhile.
Keeping a roof over the family's head, paying the utility bills, food and exorbitant travel costs to and from work eats up the wages of many people.
Pensions, like holidays and nights out, are unaffordable extras.
Governments of all colours hate the old and vulnerable although the PR machines won't let them admit it and they are trying to 'eliminate' them in any barely legal way they can.
NHS Trusts with abnormally high deaths, NHS Executives being rewarded when people die through negligence on their watch rather than being sacked for gross misconduct, green levies and, the subject of this thread, increased retirement ages are a few examples.
Those that think the higher retirement ages are a good idea, can they just answer a few points......
1) Companies, as has been proven even though it's illegal, are unlikely to employ older people. So they're just gonna be on the dole for longer 'til they can claim pension therefore not contributing to the pension payments and draining the economy further.
2) seeing as more and more jobs are becoming automated, there is a huge excess of graduates to the jobs available already and an influx of foreign labour; If by some miracle companies do start keeping/employing older people for longer, what jobs are the younger people going to do? So more youngsters on the dole and therefore not contributing to the pension pot.
3) what happens to people in manually demanding jobs or emergency response services?
It's almost as if capitalism and treating public services as businesses doesn't work in a social context, but obviously that can't be right.
I agree that child benefit should be scrapped though or at least limited to 1 child. It was brought in to encourage and assist with population growth after the war when it was needed. One thing we're not short of is population and if anything should be looking to reduce it. If you can't afford kids don't have them. Having kids isn't a right and certainly not a personal decision that I should be expected to subsidise.
A new form of capitalism has to emerge from the crash of 2007-09 - your questions and many, many more need answers starting at the General Election in just 18 months time. Not to mention the European elections next year
To be fair if your in your early 50's or younger there's very little chance of their being a meaningful - if any - state pension by the time you retire.
Spot on and it's been on the cards for 20 years. Anyone who relies on the state into pensionable age is in for a very tough time
I've been working since I was 16 , I'm 44 now where has all the money gone that I've paid in?
My dad used to moan about where all his NI contributions went. We worked out roughly what he paid in over 40 odd years. It totalled nearly exactly his last six months of state pension alone.
I can assure you, you will get back more in state benefits than you have ever paid in.
I've been working since I was 16 , I'm 44 now where has all the money gone that I've paid in?
My dad used to moan about where all his NI contributions went. We worked out roughly what he paid in over 40 odd years. It totalled nearly exactly his last six months of state pension alone.
I can assure you, you will get back more in state benefits than you have ever paid in.
A modest proposal : cull non-productive pensioners and convert them to a nutritious gruel which can then be fed to youngsters waiting to contribute to the tax system.
And the MPs get an 11% a year wage rise in the same week...all in this together they say.
And is there a shortage of people wanting to be MPs? No, for all parties, so the money can't be that much of an issue.
Maybe, maybe not. But are they of sufficient quality? I've a mate who was a prospective parliamentary candidate at the last general election. If he'd been elected (yeah, fat chance - Conservative in Islington North!) he would have had to leave his job and that probably would have meant he'd have taken a pay cut. He'd have had to work considerably harder too!
Sounds like you don't think much of your mate cafcfan!
It would be interesting to understand why your friend wanted the job, as money obviously wasn't a factor. Unless they were thinking of what's possible from expenses, speaking engagements, lobbying groups, non-exec directorships, various quangos et al.
As Muttley says, there's no shortage of applicants. I also agree with you about the quality, but that's the same in any walk of life. Weeding out the non-performers shouldn't take 5 years though!
So if people did a job like that for the money - we are going to get some good ones!!! I've heard some nonsense in my time but.....
They don't half feed us some crap. imagine you telling your boss you fiddled your expenses because he didn't pay you enough and expect to get away with it!!!
The biggest disincentive for people to enter politics from business, the law or other professions where you will find high quality people is not really the money.
The prime reason is that these people shudder at the thought of giving up their private lives, MPs and ministers are under enormous scrutiny from the media and people who are already well set in life don't need the aggravation of having the press poke around their private lives.
This is really why we have seen the creation of a 'political class' on all sides of politics of people who have usually gone straight from University into politics and have never done anything outside the Westminster bubble so there is nothing for the press to really find out about them.
I find it especially sad that on the Labour side that working-class people are simply not represented in the upper-ranks of the PLP anymore with the likes of Milliband, Balls and the rest of them (all Oxbridge, natch) basically running the joint - and none of them have ever done anything outside politics.
Just look at the bloke who is currently Labour MP for one of the safest Labour seats in the country....
....what the fuck would a bloke from Cambridgeshire, a Trinity College graduate who has only ever worked as an "activist, historian, broadcaster and newspaper columnist" know about how working class people in Stoke - you know, his actual constituents - actually live their lives or what it is to be poor and have nothing?
The fact that the Labour Party has been taken over by a middle-class cabal that sees politics as a chance to "Be someone rather than do something" is an absolute travesty and a tragedy.
To give up a career with decent money for a shot a politics is a very risky business. Unless you can get yourself a safe Tory / Labour seat you are effectively election fodder earning very decent but not fantastic money one minute and out on your ear and looking for a job the next. IMHO MP's should earn more in order to attract better candidates willing to take that gamble on getting elected and also to make the gamble worthwhile should you get voted out at the next election. It's a very difficult equation to get right though.
So Public sector workers who have had a pay freeze and are now getting 1% - what should they think about MPs? This body who reccomended 11% was set up after MPs were caught fiddling their expenses - now normal people get the sack - MPs plead poverty and cheat and get a pay rise out of it. MPs in France get less than ours -They get more than most get anyway and it should be a calling. I'd tell them to sort the country out before they get their rise- the same as they are telling everybody else! We are in it together - bo***cks we are!
The biggest disincentive for people to enter politics from business, the law or other professions where you will find high quality people is not really the money.
The prime reason is that these people shudder at the thought of giving up their private lives, MPs and ministers are under enormous scrutiny from the media and people who are already well set in life don't need the aggravation of having the press poke around their private lives.
This is really why we have seen the creation of a 'political class' on all sides of politics of people who have usually gone straight from University into politics and have never done anything outside the Westminster bubble so there is nothing for the press to really find out about them.
I find it especially sad that on the Labour side that working-class people are simply not represented in the upper-ranks of the PLP anymore with the likes of Milliband, Balls and the rest of them (all Oxbridge, natch) basically running the joint - and none of them have ever done anything outside politics.
Just look at the bloke who is currently Labour MP for one of the safest Labour seats in the country....
....what the fuck would a bloke from Cambridgeshire, a Trinity College graduate who has only ever worked as an "activist, historian, broadcaster and newspaper columnist" know about how working class people in Stoke - you know, his actual constituents - actually live their lives or what it is to be poor and have nothing?
The fact that the Labour Party has been taken over by a middle-class cabal that sees politics as a chance to "Be someone rather than do something" is an absolute travesty and a tragedy.
Post of the week Ormy! No wonder people who actually care about politics are so cynical.
Comments
I've been working since I was 16 , I'm 44 now where has all the money gone that I've paid in?
Don't rely on the government to look after you (any party) in retirement they can't afford to , the system doesn't affect politicians , it's run for their benefit.
Why are people not up in arms?
Apathy in this country is ridiculous. We should be taking the French lead. They went mental at the mention of raising the retirement age
US and European governments will not be able to afford the health, pension and benefits bills in 30-50 years time so perhaps people can start talking about alternatives now?
A higher retirement age is one obvious way. I note the current government refuse to look at NHS reductions openly because it is way too toxic at the ballot box.
Worrying about a retirement age will mean nothing as we all seem to believe that there'll be no state pension for us anyway!
BUT - and I stress that I am not a financial adviser - I have for some time now considered that ISA investments are better than a pension scheme. Of course if you can afford both great.
With an ISA you get tax-free income in retirement while keeping the capital value and any growth.
With a pension its tax-efficient now but the future income will be taxable and is provided either with the total loss of capital through annuity purchase or gradual loss of capital through draw-down.
I'd guess charges which have a major impact on capital growth are likely to be less in a stocks & shares ISA too.
1) Companies, as has been proven even though it's illegal, are unlikely to employ older people. So they're just gonna be on the dole for longer 'til they can claim pension therefore not contributing to the pension payments and draining the economy further.
2) seeing as more and more jobs are becoming automated, there is a huge excess of graduates to the jobs available already and an influx of foreign labour; If by some miracle companies do start keeping/employing older people for longer, what jobs are the younger people going to do? So more youngsters on the dole and therefore not contributing to the pension pot.
3) what happens to people in manually demanding jobs or emergency response services?
It's almost as if capitalism and treating public services as businesses doesn't work in a social context, but obviously that can't be right.
I agree that child benefit should be scrapped though or at least limited to 1 child. It was brought in to encourage and assist with population growth after the war when it was needed. One thing we're not short of is population and if anything should be looking to reduce it. If you can't afford kids don't have them. Having kids isn't a right and certainly not a personal decision that I should be expected to subsidise.
Problem is they have already raised the retirement age of woman from 60 to 65, and above a couple of years ago on a scale that is far too acute for the people concerned. You need time to plan and invest for retirement, unless you a very wealthy. And in that situation you would probably have a decent investment portfolio and savings.
Having been made redundant for some time I 'downsized', and cut my outgoings, and paid of the credit cards. I am currently working on a zero hours contract , for basic min till Christmas working in the warehouse, and filling the shelves, just as I was as a student 40 odd years ago.........'The results of a higher education' as Frank Zappa once quipped. Do not qualify for any benefit because the wife works, and my little public service pension tips us over the benefit scale. So a couple of years to go before the megabucks of the state pension kicks in!. Frankly working in a job in my industry seems a hopeless quest. If they think ( who ever they are!) that people in certain jobs can work after 65 they are deluded? and wrong. If people want to work on, good luck to them.
People have not in the past 5 years just suddenly got to reach an older age, it has been over a sustained period. But what is the point in living longer if you are alone, broke, and unhealthy?. Yes I could have paid in to a pension earlier, but then I could have done a lot of things.
Keeping a roof over the family's head, paying the utility bills, food and exorbitant travel costs to and from work eats up the wages of many people.
Pensions, like holidays and nights out, are unaffordable extras.
Governments of all colours hate the old and vulnerable although the PR machines won't let them admit it and they are trying to 'eliminate' them in any barely legal way they can.
NHS Trusts with abnormally high deaths, NHS Executives being rewarded when people die through negligence on their watch rather than being sacked for gross misconduct, green levies and, the subject of this thread, increased retirement ages are a few examples.
There lots people who have to live for today and try not worry about old age.
I can assure you, you will get back more in state benefits than you have ever paid in.
And the MPs get an 11% a year wage rise in the same week...all in this together they say.
It would be interesting to understand why your friend wanted the job, as money obviously wasn't a factor. Unless they were thinking of what's possible from expenses, speaking engagements, lobbying groups, non-exec directorships, various quangos et al.
As Muttley says, there's no shortage of applicants. I also agree with you about the quality, but that's the same in any walk of life. Weeding out the non-performers shouldn't take 5 years though!
They don't half feed us some crap. imagine you telling your boss you fiddled your expenses because he didn't pay you enough and expect to get away with it!!!
The prime reason is that these people shudder at the thought of giving up their private lives, MPs and ministers are under enormous scrutiny from the media and people who are already well set in life don't need the aggravation of having the press poke around their private lives.
This is really why we have seen the creation of a 'political class' on all sides of politics of people who have usually gone straight from University into politics and have never done anything outside the Westminster bubble so there is nothing for the press to really find out about them.
I find it especially sad that on the Labour side that working-class people are simply not represented in the upper-ranks of the PLP anymore with the likes of Milliband, Balls and the rest of them (all Oxbridge, natch) basically running the joint - and none of them have ever done anything outside politics.
Just look at the bloke who is currently Labour MP for one of the safest Labour seats in the country....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristram_Hunt
....what the fuck would a bloke from Cambridgeshire, a Trinity College graduate who has only ever worked as an "activist, historian, broadcaster and newspaper columnist" know about how working class people in Stoke - you know, his actual constituents - actually live their lives or what it is to be poor and have nothing?
The fact that the Labour Party has been taken over by a middle-class cabal that sees politics as a chance to "Be someone rather than do something" is an absolute travesty and a tragedy.