I am not in principle against a move from the Valley. If it allows the club to grow and the new setting is good, and the transport links are solid then it can be a good change. All depends on who's proposing the move and how the long term interests of the club are protected.
Would prefer a circumstance where the club owns the ground. Owning the ground, roots the club and there is not a risk of variation of massively increased rents putting the club at risk. Like owning your own house, part of the money you put in is retained. Rent can result in a Coventry type situation, but I understand that there can be other arrangements that can work, though I am no expert on that front. As long as the long term future, principles and the stability of the club is guaranteed, that is the key thing.
Charlton were 4th in Premiership at one point, not too long ago, and with the right investment, stability and sensible management, Charlton can approach those levels again. Southampton has managed it with owners who manage the club well and we are not that different a size club to them.
Each to their own. Change should not be refused as a point of principle, without hearing the full story, and a considered opinion can then be given.
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out
People's circumstances change and when there is a big upheaval like a ground move that might be the final straw added in your case of long distance and son not going that makes you think "not for me" and that is all fine. Lots of people stop going to the Valley for their own valid reasons be it work, health, family, cost, distance, etc.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
I'm on the fence at the moment I think we should wait and see what happens. I'd be against moving but I look at other clubs that kicked up a fuss about moving but haven't heard much complaining since they moved.
I echo what others have said that aslong as the ground is ours and isn't a standard bowl with no carachter I think I could adjust.
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out
People's circumstances change and when there is a big upheaval like a ground move that might be the final straw added in your case of long distance and son not going that makes you think "not for me" and that is all fine. Lots of people stop going to the Valley for their own valid reasons be it work, health, family, cost, distance, etc.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
You're right of course, and I would never be one to stamp my feet and say "never again". Like any fickle fan I could be seduced by success ;-)
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out
People's circumstances change and when there is a big upheaval like a ground move that might be the final straw added in your case of long distance and son not going that makes you think "not for me" and that is all fine. Lots of people stop going to the Valley for their own valid reasons be it work, health, family, cost, distance, etc.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
You're right of course, and I would never be one to stamp my feet and say "never again". Like any fickle fan I could be seduced by success ;-)
So true : - )
And we know the first time we lose at the new place people will say "we would have won that at the Valley. : - )
I'd probably still go to the Greenwich Peninsula as I love watching Charlton play
I'd certainly miss the Valley as love the Ground, love the name and still think that upgrading the Valley to a 40,000 stadium as per the original plans is the more sensible idea.
The trouble is before the club even commits to either plan we need to become an established Premier League side again as we currently struggle to fill the stadium at the present even with the Football-For-A-Fiver offers etc... so we'd just look silly (or look like Wigan) if we had a bigger ground.
What people also need to remember is the fact that under FFP rules these days (I'll admit I dont fully understand them) you can only spend money that you make and that will obviously come from the fans
I'm no FFP expert but I thought that capital injected as equity as distinct from funds received as a loan met FFP criteria.
But I will let others who know far more about the subject comment further if they feel the need.
Up to £5m in equity allowed this season under FFP. So far £0 injected as equity which means that the new owners can give the manager a nice war chest in January if they chose to.
But some spending like on the academy is outside FFP so the new owners could if they wanted fill the £2m gap in the funding for the £5m new build at Sparrows Lane that has stalled over the past 18 months.
And I think but am not sure the ground developments are outside FFP too.
As below a quick check on the rules shows that rent on a facility is NOT excempted so that takes c. £1M out of the headroom. Depreciation on a stadium and capital expenditure (on the Academy or the Valley) are not limited by FFP.
"The Fair Play Result is based on the club's profit or loss before tax with the exception of:
• Investment in Youth Development (as defined in the Elite Player Performance Plan) • The profit affecting element of the purchase, sale and depreciation of fixed assets excluding players (e.g. a club's stadium) • Investment in a club's Community Scheme • Promotion related bonus payments"
I think that a lot will depend on how we do on the pitch. If we are successful, then it will attract more fans and we can start dreaming about 'stepping up to the next level' and all the other cliches. If not, then all this stadium talk is a non-starter!
But success will bring bigger gates in the same way that failure and relegation means smaller ones.
As below a quick check on the rules shows that rent on a facility is NOT excempted so that takes c. £1M out of the headroom. Depreciation on a stadium and capital expenditure (on the Academy or the Valley) are not limited by FFP.
"The Fair Play Result is based on the club's profit or loss before tax with the exception of:
• Investment in Youth Development (as defined in the Elite Player Performance Plan) • The profit affecting element of the purchase, sale and depreciation of fixed assets excluding players (e.g. a club's stadium) • Investment in a club's Community Scheme • Promotion related bonus payments"
Or, to put it another way, owning rather than renting your ground is better re FFP
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out
People's circumstances change and when there is a big upheaval like a ground move that might be the final straw added in your case of long distance and son not going that makes you think "not for me" and that is all fine. Lots of people stop going to the Valley for their own valid reasons be it work, health, family, cost, distance, etc.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
Good post Henry......
the thing that I find funny is that, what with the potential new owners and new Norman Foster designed architecturally amazing ground many seem to say we'll be established in the premier league automatically and success is assured.
We could though also be relegated and be playing at a colder (nearer the river) soulless concrete bowl with low crowds.
Money ain't everything and apart from a few teams most have cyclical periods of success.
When our next one is over, I want it to be at The Valley
For what its worth there is simply no way that the council could approve The Valley being opened up for high-density housing of the type that developers would want to build.
Look at the access roads in the area - you have Harvey Gardens and Floyd Road - both tiny, narrow streets, can you imagine the bottleneck that would fuel if you put another 1,000 residences (maybe more) on The Valley site? You would be causing absolute chaos - especially at the junction with Charlton Church Lane.
Moreover, there is not really much any developer can do about that, this is an established area with hundreds of homes affected by any major civil works which involved road-widening or new roads being created.
I have had I season ticket senses 97 and I'm more.than happy to move if I can keep my same seat at the new ground and I have the same people sitting around me as we have know each other for a long time and the. Are great people. I think the move would be great for the club to move forward as we will never upgrade the valley as Greenwich council is crap
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out
People's circumstances change and when there is a big upheaval like a ground move that might be the final straw added in your case of long distance and son not going that makes you think "not for me" and that is all fine. Lots of people stop going to the Valley for their own valid reasons be it work, health, family, cost, distance, etc.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
A scenario worthy of consideration, Henry.
And although a move from The Valley could be that final straw for some, it could be the beginning of a long love affair for many others, who might never have been attracted to our current home and more especially the young uns like your son .
Comments
Would prefer a circumstance where the club owns the ground. Owning the ground, roots the club and there is not a risk of variation of massively increased rents putting the club at risk. Like owning your own house, part of the money you put in is retained. Rent can result in a Coventry type situation, but I understand that there can be other arrangements that can work, though I am no expert on that front. As long as the long term future, principles and the stability of the club is guaranteed, that is the key thing.
Charlton were 4th in Premiership at one point, not too long ago, and with the right investment, stability and sensible management, Charlton can approach those levels again. Southampton has managed it with owners who manage the club well and we are not that different a size club to them.
Each to their own. Change should not be refused as a point of principle, without hearing the full story, and a considered opinion can then be given.
But let me suggest a scenario. The new owners come in, splash the cash and we go up. The team is doing well and the owners annouce that we're building a new ground to open in 3 years time.
Meanwhile we carry on winning and the ground is full
Success breeds success and we are in the Europa league and the top half of the Prem with a waiting list for STs.
The owners consult the fans on the design of the stadium and have affordable seats plus a safe standing area behind the goal. The stands are close to the pitch and are named after CAFC heroes. Parking is easy and free and the catering fantastic. There is real ale on sale and the hand driers work.
When do those who don't want a move stop going?
As soon as the move is announced?
When we actually move?
And if the club offer free ticket to a game to ex-ST holders (as they have for Derby next month) do you go?
If that first season at the Royal Greenwich Stadium we have a key match v Man Utd to clinch a champions league place do you buy a ticket?
I would totally respect anyone who sticks to their views and doesn't ever go but it might be testing.
I echo what others have said that aslong as the ground is ours and isn't a standard bowl with no carachter I think I could adjust.
Like any fickle fan I could be seduced by success ;-)
And we know the first time we lose at the new place people will say "we would have won that at the Valley. : - )
I'd probably still go to the Greenwich Peninsula as I love watching Charlton play
I'd certainly miss the Valley as love the Ground, love the name and still think that upgrading the Valley to a 40,000 stadium as per the original plans is the more sensible idea.
The trouble is before the club even commits to either plan we need to become an established Premier League side again as we currently struggle to fill the stadium at the present even with the Football-For-A-Fiver offers etc... so we'd just look silly (or look like Wigan) if we had a bigger ground.
What people also need to remember is the fact that under FFP rules these days (I'll admit I dont fully understand them) you can only spend money that you make and that will obviously come from the fans
But I will let others who know far more about the subject comment further if they feel the need.
But some spending like on the academy is outside FFP so the new owners could if they wanted fill the £2m gap in the funding for the £5m new build at Sparrows Lane that has stalled over the past 18 months.
And I think but am not sure the ground developments are outside FFP too.
"The Fair Play Result is based on the club's profit or loss before tax with the exception of:
• Investment in Youth Development (as defined in the Elite Player Performance Plan)
• The profit affecting element of the purchase, sale and depreciation of fixed assets excluding players (e.g. a club's stadium)
• Investment in a club's Community Scheme
• Promotion related bonus payments"
Or go into admin like sthampton and palarse screw everyone over have no debt and then spend all your promotion money on players
Both options are viable to do and still achieve
But success will bring bigger gates in the same way that failure and relegation means smaller ones.
the thing that I find funny is that, what with the potential new owners and new Norman Foster designed architecturally amazing ground many seem to say we'll be established in the premier league automatically and success is assured.
We could though also be relegated and be playing at a colder (nearer the river) soulless concrete bowl with low crowds.
Money ain't everything and apart from a few teams most have cyclical periods of success.
When our next one is over, I want it to be at The Valley
Look at the access roads in the area - you have Harvey Gardens and Floyd Road - both tiny, narrow streets, can you imagine the bottleneck that would fuel if you put another 1,000 residences (maybe more) on The Valley site? You would be causing absolute chaos - especially at the junction with Charlton Church Lane.
Moreover, there is not really much any developer can do about that, this is an established area with hundreds of homes affected by any major civil works which involved road-widening or new roads being created.
We struggled to sell out in the premier, thus not redeveloping the Jimmy Seed to make a 40k capacity.
The Valley is our home.
And although a move from The Valley could be that final straw for some, it could be the beginning of a long love affair for many others, who might never have been attracted to our current home and more especially the young uns like your son .
yet