@jackmasterflash I'm with you, Charlton would not be the same club anywhere but the Valley, this will tear the heart and soul out of our club for me, there would always be something missing, it will be a franchise
Red is my colour, Charlton is my team, but the Valley will always be home!
razil I share your passion and understand your viewpoint as chairman of the trust but please get real, have you got 18 million plus to trump the purported offer for the ownership of the club?
Let's see what transpires over the next couple of weeks. Our club is simply changing hands to whoever pays the highest sum. From one group who are not Charlton fans to another group who are not Charlton fans.
There is zero point about fretting about or trying to shape the future until that has occured because those of us with zero share influence have zero impact upon it.
Nothing to do with being chairman of the trust, quite the opposite in fact, this is a personal thing - I don't wanna support a franchise
No probs mate I think I might have been supporting the reds before you were born and I have so many happy memories of the Valley with my demised close family but......life goes on as does the future of the club and if that means a new home on the Peninsula then so be it COYR.
Haven't been on for a day or so. What's this ground moving nonsense all about? Or is it another boring premonition thread which will ultimately bare no fruit?
But its been floating in the background for 7/8 years and it will always be there until that pen area gets fully developed. And from that point,vthat opportunity will be gone forever.
It's a potentially serious forward move for us as a club. One that potentially lead us into a different league, or alternatively kill the soul of the club.
The long pros and cons of staying at the Valley have to be equally considered.
It's not a straight forward judgement to lump on.
You're instinct may well be going into Valley protection overdrive, but your sensible head should be taking a step back.
There are far too many considerations in play that should he stopping you from fully chucking your hat into a certain ring
Sometimes you just have to go with what's in your heart - I'm with Razil on this one. Why should we be pawns of some Greenwich Council master plan? Surely our own history means more than that?
Haven't been on for a day or so. What's this ground moving nonsense all about? Or is it another boring premonition thread which will ultimately bare no fruit?
People adding 2+2 =5 and you are probably correct in your assumption but I'm just saying The Valley, Peninsula I don't give a toss, I will follow my team wherever as I did at Sellout. Rant over.
I would be against any move away from the Valley, but can see many pros & cons if that decision is made. However, it's vital the club have ownership of the stadium, and that I fear will not be the case..........
Sometimes you just have to go with what's in your heart - I'm with Razil on this one. Why should we be pawns of some Greenwich Council master plan? Surely our own history means more than that?
What about the importance of our future? Does that not trump our memories of the past?
Dan is right nothing in black and white yet over 2 things
The potential new owners
The ground move
I don't think its wrong to mention either on here especially when you weigh the facts up
There is a thread on the TO and its getting sidetracked
So one on the potential move needs to exist.
Facts in order for me
A move to the penninsula has been discussed by the previous regime as a viable option for several years
The club was issueing a sales brochure to potential new buyers by the current owners
Within it was the redevopment and move to the peninsula
This would say to me that the former owners used similar language to gain a new investor/ owner
RBG are now 2 months behind the time set out to them to respond and to either place the valley as an ACV, this at the same time a member of the RBG has been in the boardroom on many occasions at the valley
And the delay also coinciding with a potenetial take over of the club
There are drawings of a redevloped penninsula that have appeared that clearly show a stadium of some sort on the penninsula site
From these facts I have formed a view that is as follows
The club will be sold very very soon and new owners of sunstantial wealth to the like we have not known and will aim to take cafc in a direction that will and should excite fans
They will very quickly announce that they aim to look to the exciting development on the penninsula site as a new chapter in the history of the club
This will mean RBG do not have to answer ACV or will say the sale and progression of the club means ACV is not needed
Cafc will flourish into the prem and and move into a shiny lovely new stadium and will continue to grow from strength to strength charging more and more attracting a different fan
What that will mean to me and why would it bother me so much
I have said it before my charlton life started at the valley and took me to shithurt and upton park and then home those years formed my bond and love for them
Coming home and the journey we took to the prem was our reward for our pain
Imo everything we can achieve can still be done at home there is no need to move
If we own the new potential ground then maybe I am just being a sentimental fool but the noises that have been mentioned along with this secret TO is that the stadium will be a joint venture with RBG
Like Covenshity a lease and rent stadium once again we will have no home
At last, a Lego thread. Anyone on here built a train? Surely someone must have!
Yep my father in law did , took ages but we've since banned Lego from the household due to the babies wanting to pick up the little bits and choke/chew on them
mate one thing...RBG cant turn the acv down in my opinion. Change of ownership doesnt effect the application in any way shape or form
but ACV status means its is harder for any owner to sell the ground but by no means impossible.
am not to sure about the on pitch success. as razil i think conmented...2 ways only to turn a profit...promotion or sell the ground.
Even if we did go up thats nothing compared to selling the ground.
I think lenglover emphasised that a football club that doesnt own its own ground becomes a football team. We simply have to own our own.ground. no different from us leasing or the man in the street wacking stuff on his credit card that he cant really afford. Same principle that what.u borrow today u have to pay back double tomorrow.
It wont happen for a while....mmmm. i think the wheels are firmly in motion and once the juggernaut starts its hard to stop.
i hope that CAST or anyone with an interest will be able to raise questions of the new owners in a way which will force their hand to tell us what they are about. Of course if they are smart they wont give the game away
it would be interesting to do a poll on here to see what peoples views are. Id like to see more scenarios outlined than simply PL football at Penis-sula or league 2 at VFR
mate one thing...RBG cant turn the acv down in my opinion. Change of ownership doesnt effect the application in any way shape or form
but ACV status means its is harder for any owner to sell the ground but by no means impossible.
am not to sure about the on pitch success. as razil i think conmented...2 ways only to turn a profit...promotion or sell the ground.
Even if we did go up thats nothing compared to selling the ground.
I think lenglover emphasised that a football club that doesnt own its own ground becomes a football team. We simply have to own our own.ground. no different from us leasing or the man in the street wacking stuff on his credit card that he cant really afford. Same principle that what.u borrow today u have to pay back double tomorrow.
It wont happen for a while....mmmm. i think the wheels are firmly in motion and once the juggernaut starts its hard to stop.
i hope that CAST or anyone with an interest will be able to raise questions of the new owners in a way which will force their hand to tell us what they are about. Of course if they are smart they wont give the game away
it would be interesting to do a poll on here to see what peoples views are. Id like to see more scenarios outlined than simply PL football at Penis-sula or league 2 at VFR
I have just emailed the Trust board about the concept of running a poll - let's see if there is appetite to do that right now? If there is then it is key to get the questions spot on so please inbox me with scenarios and we can see what questions to ask without bias.
I would be interested to see the numbers myself but...
Let's see what transpires over the next couple of weeks. Our club is simply changing hands to whoever pays the highest sum. From one group who are not Charlton fans to another group who are not Charlton fans.
There is zero point about fretting about or trying to shape the future until that has occured because those of us with zero share influence have zero impact upon it.
Lots to potentially take on board
This,I'm afraid,and the well-meaning Trust and any ACV will be rendered insignificant if any move is decided by the people who have the real clout - those with the filthy lucre.
As for you Jack,if we do move,you'll have a little sulk like a lot of people on here and threaten to never go to the new ground,but you will - I'm afraid you have no choice now, wherever you may be.
Let's see what transpires over the next couple of weeks. Our club is simply changing hands to whoever pays the highest sum. From one group who are not Charlton fans to another group who are not Charlton fans.
There is zero point about fretting about or trying to shape the future until that has occured because those of us with zero share influence have zero impact upon it.
Lots to potentially take on board
This
The best we can do is imagine what the world looks like post takeover and figure out what the plan is... and I expect that is the same for the playing and non-playing staff at CAFC
But the acv only allows the club to be forced to announce intended sale and allow another group to bid
If the club is sold including the ground and announce a potential new ground move then the ACV is worthless
The club will grow on field that is a given the USA connecgtion and the redevlopment of the penninsula go hand in hand and both will regenerate together club and land
The main issue is ownership and it makes no sense to demolish and rebuild at club expense but it does to sell and demolish and lease a brand spanker if you are a new owner and property company
If there is a poll then let's widen it beyond CL and ITV and include the whole Charlton fan base. And of course let's wait till we have something to poll about
I personally have no issue with moving away from VFR to a local site (providing we own it) if it means securing our future financially and playing in the PL. I however respect the views of others who don't agree with my stance.
I wonder how other clubs' fans feel a few years on who have gone through the "moving" process. Are they now happy with the relocation and wondered what all the fuss was about.
Perhaps we should undertake a fact-finding exercise of such fans to establish their feelings. Anybody fancy a trip to the New Den ??
i would guess most are fairly happy. Happily ambivalent shall we say. But the ones with strongest opinions will be those that were destroyed by the ground sale..
I can think.of 2 in particular
CCFC CAFC 1985
Its definitely a different animal if we own the new ground rather than lease. Depending on who then club owners are of course
The new Den is, I believe, the only new ground where attendances went down after a move.
My guess is that is in part due to bigger capacity at a lot of new grounds as well as the attraction of new and better facilities bringing in new and lapsed fans.
Nothing is clear yet so we can't say that the club and new ground won't have the same ownership but I agree with Len that separating the two is dangerous as proved by us, Palace and Coventry.
I'd be happy to stay at the Valley and that would be my prefernce but I asked my 15 year old son whose been going longer than Jack, is 4th generation and has two uncles who were Valley Party candidates. He'd be happy to move because he wants to follow his team in a swish new PL stadium and see them have some success. The Valley just doesnt mean the same to him.
1. If we move, then my view will depend on what it is we move to and who owns it. However, like NLA I fear that our fan base will shift towards 'consumers of football' and the atmosphere will be killed once and for all. I also think we have a stronger bond with our ground than most clubs, because we lost it once before. 2. My brother and I once visited our mum, got the Lego out of the loft and built a model of the Valley. We were both in our 30s at the time. That stuff is like a time machine.
Worst case scenario, the Valley gets sold, the new Stadium idea gets cancelled due to relegation. We end up as joint tenants along with Championship club WHU at the Olympic stadium.
Henry I think it is probably very much a generational thing as to whether you accept leaving the Valley. I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence. I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward. But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red. It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own. I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them. Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973. Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley. Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing. Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Worst case scenario, the Valley gets sold, the new Stadium idea gets cancelled due to relegation. We end up as joint tenants along with Championship club WHU at the Olympic stadium.
...and we then merge, taking the 'West Ham Utd' from their name and the 'FC' from ours to create new club 'West Ham Utd FC'
Worst case scenario, the Valley gets sold, the new Stadium idea gets cancelled due to relegation. We end up as joint tenants along with Championship club WHU at the Olympic stadium.
...and we then merge, taking the 'West Ham Utd' from their name and the 'FC' from ours to create new club 'West Ham Utd FC'
Then I woke up and it was all a horrible nightmare!
Comments
Let's see what transpires over the next couple of weeks. Our club is simply changing hands to whoever pays the highest sum. From one group who are not Charlton fans to another group who are not Charlton fans.
There is zero point about fretting about or trying to shape the future until that has occured because those of us with zero share influence have zero impact upon it.
Lots to potentially take on board
It's a potentially serious forward move for us as a club. One that potentially lead us into a different league, or alternatively kill the soul of the club.
The long pros and cons of staying at the Valley have to be equally considered.
It's not a straight forward judgement to lump on.
You're instinct may well be going into Valley protection overdrive, but your sensible head should be taking a step back.
There are far too many considerations in play that should he stopping you from fully chucking your hat into a certain ring
In my opinion
The potential new owners
The ground move
I don't think its wrong to mention either on here especially when you weigh the facts up
There is a thread on the TO and its getting sidetracked
So one on the potential move needs to exist.
Facts in order for me
A move to the penninsula has been discussed by the previous regime as a viable option for several years
The club was issueing a sales brochure to potential new buyers by the current owners
Within it was the redevopment and move to the peninsula
This would say to me that the former owners used similar language to gain a new investor/ owner
RBG are now 2 months behind the time set out to them to respond and to either place the valley as an ACV, this at the same time a member of the RBG has been in the boardroom on many occasions at the valley
And the delay also coinciding with a potenetial take over of the club
There are drawings of a redevloped penninsula that have appeared that clearly show a stadium of some sort on the penninsula site
From these facts I have formed a view that is as follows
The club will be sold very very soon and new owners of sunstantial wealth to the like we have not known and will aim to take cafc in a direction that will and should excite fans
They will very quickly announce that they aim to look to the exciting development on the penninsula site as a new chapter in the history of the club
This will mean RBG do not have to answer ACV or will say the sale and progression of the club means ACV is not needed
Cafc will flourish into the prem and and move into a shiny lovely new stadium and will continue to grow from strength to strength charging more and more attracting a different fan
What that will mean to me and why would it bother me so much
I have said it before my charlton life started at the valley and took me to shithurt and upton park and then home those years formed my bond and love for them
Coming home and the journey we took to the prem was our reward for our pain
Imo everything we can achieve can still be done at home there is no need to move
If we own the new potential ground then maybe I am just being a sentimental fool but the noises that have been mentioned along with this secret TO is that the stadium will be a joint venture with RBG
Like Covenshity a lease and rent stadium once again we will have no home
And that bothers me greatly
mate one thing...RBG cant turn the acv down in my opinion. Change of ownership doesnt effect the application in any way shape or form
but ACV status means its is harder for any owner to sell the ground but by no means impossible.
am not to sure about the on pitch success. as razil i think conmented...2 ways only to turn a profit...promotion or sell the ground.
Even if we did go up thats nothing compared to selling the ground.
I think lenglover emphasised that a football club that doesnt own its own ground becomes a football team. We simply have to own our own.ground. no different from us leasing or the man in the street wacking stuff on his credit card that he cant really afford. Same principle that what.u borrow today u have to pay back double tomorrow.
It wont happen for a while....mmmm. i think the wheels are firmly in motion and once the juggernaut starts its hard to stop.
i hope that CAST or anyone with an interest will be able to raise questions of the new owners in a way which will force their hand to tell us what they are about. Of course if they are smart they wont give the game away
it would be interesting to do a poll on here to see what peoples views are. Id like to see more scenarios outlined than simply PL football at Penis-sula or league 2 at VFR
I would be interested to see the numbers myself but...
As for you Jack,if we do move,you'll have a little sulk like a lot of people on here and threaten to never go to the new ground,but you will - I'm afraid you have no choice now, wherever you may be.
You're a Charlton fan,God help you.
The best we can do is imagine what the world looks like post takeover and figure out what the plan is... and I expect that is the same for the playing and non-playing staff at CAFC
If the club is sold including the ground and announce a potential new ground move then the ACV is worthless
The club will grow on field that is a given the USA connecgtion and the redevlopment of the penninsula go hand in hand and both will regenerate together club and land
The main issue is ownership and it makes no sense to demolish and rebuild at club expense but it does to sell and demolish and lease a brand spanker if you are a new owner and property company
Think the best approach at this point of time is keep a watchful brief, and an open mind.
I wonder how other clubs' fans feel a few years on who have gone through the "moving" process. Are they now happy with the relocation and wondered what all the fuss was about.
Perhaps we should undertake a fact-finding exercise of such fans to establish their feelings. Anybody fancy a trip to the New Den ??
i would guess most are fairly happy. Happily ambivalent shall we say. But the ones with strongest opinions will be those that were destroyed by the ground sale..
I can think.of 2 in particular
CCFC
CAFC 1985
Its definitely a different animal if we own the new ground rather than lease. Depending on who then club owners are of course
My guess is that is in part due to bigger capacity at a lot of new grounds as well as the attraction of new and better facilities bringing in new and lapsed fans.
Nothing is clear yet so we can't say that the club and new ground won't have the same ownership but I agree with Len that separating the two is dangerous as proved by us, Palace and Coventry.
I'd be happy to stay at the Valley and that would be my prefernce but I asked my 15 year old son whose been going longer than Jack, is 4th generation and has two uncles who were Valley Party candidates. He'd be happy to move because he wants to follow his team in a swish new PL stadium and see them have some success. The Valley just doesnt mean the same to him.
2. My brother and I once visited our mum, got the Lego out of the loft and built a model of the Valley. We were both in our 30s at the time. That stuff is like a time machine.
I also agree that the point about owning our own ground is of crucial importance.
That said, I must admit to a certain ambivalence.
I'm excited by the prospect of a rosy new future with money and ambition driving the club forward.
But if we do leave the Valley, it may just be the right moment for me to call time on my active support of our boys in red.
It costs time and money coming up from Dorset every fortnight, and now my son is working Saturdays I make the journey on my own.
I'm 60 years old at the end of the year and have supported for well over 50 of them.
Been a season ticket holder on and off since 1973.
Almost all my most treasured football memories are tied up in the Valley.
Even to this day I get the same tingle of excitement every time I turn into Floyd Road from Charlton Church Lane, no matter how we are doing.
Can't imagine I'll be around long enough to build up the same love for a new stadium whatever it's merits.
That said, the primary thing for me is the future of CAFC whatever that entails and at least the Pen is in the borough.
Let's see how this pans out