There were, as ever, a fair sprinkling of Lifers there so I'm sure that can fill in any gaps or correct any mistakes.
People asked why we could afford new flat screen TVs ...
BK earlier used the example of the TV screens to show how a deal could be put together with suppliers and advertisers to improve things - he said it was relatively simple - he didn't quote cost and hoped that more ideas would follow - improvements of this type, more bums on seats and a "step change" were the main themes
He also stated he was investigating non football revenue such as music but the the risk was generally with the venue and not the promoter nor the artist. SB added that at Colchester they had needed 90%+ sales to break even on non football events - so clearly if things don't sell well they end up taking money out of the club.
There was also a question from the floor about the competitive threat which West Ham might pose once they move to the Olympic Stadium.
BK stated that CAFC have a few years to get their house in order and that he knows people on the commercial side at West Ham - they are targetting the commercial / conference market by under cutting competitors which he found somewhat strange given that the Olympic Stadium is a brand new facility with perfect transport links etc.
BK also spoke of trying to fix a disconnect with the Community Trust - extract more value from the juniors involved - perhaps 20,000 - in terms of getting them to pay to come in (not just comps). When pushed on how many he said he would love to capture all of them but settled on 20% I think. Basically this was all connected to the West Ham question in that CAFC need to use what is available right now... BK stated that they had captured a lot of data from the Wigan game, thanked the Supporters Trust for organising the distribution of 16,000 flyers AND was clear that there were 1,000 fans who had never been to the Valley before
So, amongst all the jargen there were some tangible examples about action and current thinking - we will have to see what comes up in terms of real activity and more importantly whether the revenue increases... for at the top of the meeting BK was adamant that he wanted to increase revenue in order to support the first team ... and if that performs better it is obviously easier to sell seats
West Ham already have a very nice stand full of hospitality boxes and lounges, I attended an event in one of their rooms earlier this year. Run down area to go to, mind you, the Olympic stadium is a much more attractive location, for non football visitors!
There were, as ever, a fair sprinkling of Lifers there so I'm sure that can fill in any gaps or correct any mistakes.
People asked why we could afford new flat screen TVs ...
BK earlier used the example of the TV screens to show how a deal could be put together with suppliers and advertisers to improve things - he said it was relatively simple - he didn't quote cost and hoped that more ideas would follow - improvements of this type, more bums on seats and a "step change" were the main themes
He also stated he was investigating non football revenue such as music but the the risk was generally with the venue and not the promoter nor the artist. SB added that at Colchester they had needed 90%+ sales to break even on non football events - so clearly if things don't sell well they end up taking money out of the club.
There was also a question from the floor about the competitive threat which West Ham might pose once they move to the Olympic Stadium.
BK stated that CAFC have a few years to get their house in order and that he knows people on the commercial side at West Ham - they are targetting the commercial / conference market by under cutting competitors which he found somewhat strange given that the Olympic Stadium is a brand new facility with perfect transport links etc.
BK also spoke of trying to fix a disconnect with the Community Trust - extract more value from the juniors involved - perhaps 20,000 - in terms of getting them to pay to come in (not just comps). When pushed on how many he said he would love to capture all of them but settled on 20% I think. Basically this was all connected to the West Ham question in that CAFC need to use what is available right now... BK stated that they had captured a lot of data from the Wigan game, thanked the Supporters Trust for organising the distribution of 16,000 flyers AND was clear that there were 1,000 fans who had never been to the Valley before
So, amongst all the jargen there were some tangible examples about action and current thinking - we will have to see what comes up in terms of real activity and more importantly whether the revenue increases... for at the top of the meeting BK was adamant that he wanted to increase revenue in order to support the first team ... and if that performs better it is obviously easier to sell seats
These are all things the club has been doing for years. Not a criticism, but things are not new just because you're not aware of them.
Yes trying to run a concert can backfire on the club. Two years ago Kent ran a concert at the county ground and it lost money and cost Kent CC some £500000.
Yes trying to run a concert can backfire on the club. Two years ago Kent ran a concert at the county ground and it lost money and cost Kent CC some £500000.
The Sugar Babes fiasco.
It's all very well "sweating the asset" but I'd have thought common sense would tell you that "know your demographic" is more important.
Mind you in 40 plus years of working one thing I've observed is that management wallahs live in their own ivory tower and desperately try to shape the world to their vision rather than the other way round.
Bit like that Canute bloke who got wet feet all those years ago.
DISCLAIMER: I don't know SB, BK, (SK or BB for Henry :-) ) so I am in no way suggesting any of this is applicable to them.
BK was at university at the same time as my oldest daughter but they didn't know each other. That's my sole knowledge of either of them.
It wasn't meant as a dig at BK but maybe the communications consultant will include that in his feedback.
Whether people say "sweating the asset" or "maximise profit" or "earn as much money as we can from what we have" what actually matters is HOW and that was what was missing for me.
BK and SB didn't mention the contra deal for the TVs at the meeting but the gap is still how do the screens increase both turnover and profit?
Hence my frustration that neither BK or SB explained the business plan, even in outline.
Airman has a point that a lot of what was told to the Trust at their private meeting before the public meeting and in front of the Bromley Addicks has been done before. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done again or that it can't be done better or differently though.
Although to pre-empt Airman it could be said that if you strip your organisation of skills, knowledge and experience in the way that has happened in the last two years you run the risk of "re-inventing the wheel" (see I can do management jargon too ; - ). )
Yes trying to run a concert can backfire on the club. Two years ago Kent ran a concert at the county ground and it lost money and cost Kent CC some £500000.
It was £190k. The problem was Kent got greedy and acted as the promoter, taking on all the risk, hoping in return for a bigger share of the profit (or should that be a bigger share of the ''sweat''?) They had previously staged an Elton John concert at the Canterbury ground from which the club made a £50k profit and involved no risk because they merely provided the venue and handed the management of the project over to an experienced music biz promoter (who made rather more, which is where avaricious eyes started to light up in the Kent committee room and the greed came in...).
Pop concerts at county cricket grounds have in general become good money spinners. Lancs, Sussex and Northants were among those earning decent income from pop concerts at their cricket grounds last season. You need the right act, of course. A concert by Madness at the Northampton county ground was oustandingly successful.Cliff Richard at the Sussex county ground at Hove made less money.
Yokshire now plan to stage two concerts a year at Headingley and Somerset (Taunton) and Durham also stage concerts at their grounds.
SB did mention that concerts are high risk and can have complicated structures so they were wary.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
Hang on, this sweating the assets malarkey, doesn't it just mean do your best with what you've got? So if I remember Grocer's daughter kitchen economics correctly, if I've got white flour, marge and some icing, then I make fairy cakes but not fruit cakes. Deep stuff this management.
SB did mention that concerts are high risk and can have complicated structures so they were wary.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
It may be the most successful but the new one in Leeds is the apparently the best.
SB did mention that concerts are high risk and can have complicated structures so they were wary.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
It may be the most successful but the new one in Leeds is the apparently the best.
Tarted up northern working men's club is what I heard. Everything in London is better than everything in the North FACT
SB did mention that concerts are high risk and can have complicated structures so they were wary.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
It may be the most successful but the new one in Leeds is the apparently the best.
Tarted up northern working men's club is what I heard. Everything in London is better than everything in the North FACT
SB did mention that concerts are high risk and can have complicated structures so they were wary.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
It may be the most successful but the new one in Leeds is the apparently the best.
Tarted up northern working men's club is what I heard. Everything in London is better than everything in the North FACT
: - )
Not sure about that Henry , you can't beat a good old fashioned bakewell tart, the edible kind that is...
If i was working for a small company and i had just heard that they were " sweating The assets " i would be fearing for my job.
It's a horrible expression.
I tend to agree even though I personally don't think that was the intention. But given how many people have left for various reasons lately (number 11 departs from the Comms team this week) it was at best unfortunate.
Perhaps worse is that it is the sort of language you might use in a business meeting but not in front of your core customers (most people at that meeting would be ST holders, Valley Gold, VIPs, etc etc) as it could be heard as getting more money out of us. I don't think it was meant that way as a far I could make out the business plan is to sell Charlton and Valley to those that don't use it at the moment.
As we all know though Ansoff's matrix suggests this one of the hardest markets to tap into
Comes from squeezing more out of the resources you have. Think of it in terms of cutting costs, maximising the capabilities of your current systems and fully utilising the skills of your personnel. In other words, get rid of what you can and make the rest of the lackeys take up the slack.
(All with the implied goal of putting any resulting profits in your own pocket!)
Cheers Lookie. Why didn't he just say that instead of giving bullshit business talk jargon!!
But sweating the assets is a perfectly normal business phrase, and clearly means (as per my previous reply) maximising the commercial return from the investment in The Valley, examples being more revenue from hospitality, room hire, events at The Valley etc. When the London Broncos groundshared with us, that was a good example of 'sweating the assets'.
It doesn't mean sacking workers, or making the staff work harder, and it doesn't mean sticking ticket prices up.
Surely if you want to sweat the asset you need to properly look into utilising the stadium for events such as concerts, as we did before rather than simply say it's too high risk
Airman has a point that a lot of what was told to the Trust at their private meeting before the public meeting and in front of the Bromley Addicks has been done before. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done again or that it can't be done better or differently though.
Not sure how anyone could possibly know what was said at an earlier general comms meeting, which happened to be on the same day with SB only - something which logistically we are finding difficult as we have full time jobs and children as do they, a large number of topics were covered and very few if any that I recall were included in the Bromley meeting.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned but we (CAS Trust) were at the meeting and I spoke several times, at first to thank Bromley for their initial contribution of 200 quid at the start of the Trust project, which helped us get off the ground - they continue to support us now with high levels of membership I believe, and two joined on the night despite no formal trust recruitment going on; then later about Millwall and gave SB a hard time particularly around the policing something which we have and will continue to do while we think there are issues, and around communication and the gap which must be closed if we are ever to feel like a united football club.
On ABs point I don't disagree at all, no one I hope is claiming to be anything 'new' although the dynamic is completely different i.e. Supporters Trust outside the club engaging with non fans inside the club, rather than fans employed or even a supporters Director within the club doing this - I believe most would agree it is quite a lot more challenging given our position outside the club, but hopefully we are getting somewhere slowly?
I do however totally get the point about reinventing the wheel. I must also add the Valley party and Rick's huge contribution on marketing of tickets and in general around growing the fanbase, are very much an inspiration to CAS Trust. My attitude is that we need to operate in whatever environment we are in as effectively as possible and do the best we can for Charlton, and maybe we can bring new as well as established ideas to the table.
Comes from squeezing more out of the resources you have. Think of it in terms of cutting costs, maximising the capabilities of your current systems and fully utilising the skills of your personnel. In other words, get rid of what you can and make the rest of the lackeys take up the slack.
(All with the implied goal of putting any resulting profits in your own pocket!)
Cheers Lookie. Why didn't he just say that instead of giving bullshit business talk jargon!!
Surely if you want to sweat the asset you need to properly look into utilising the stadium for events such as concerts, as we did before rather than simply say it's too high risk
BK said he was & has plenty of experience in this area, as he put on concerts at The Emirates - Coldplay etc.
I didn't mention that the Trust were at the meeting just as I didn't mention that NWK or Eltham Addicks were there or Covered End or Athletico Charlton All were welcome as they have always been.
I thought it was £300 we gave the Trust but since you've got 8k in the bank now feel free to give it back or better add it to your donation to the Museum
Comes from squeezing more out of the resources you have. Think of it in terms of cutting costs, maximising the capabilities of your current systems and fully utilising the skills of your personnel. In other words, get rid of what you can and make the rest of the lackeys take up the slack.
(All with the implied goal of putting any resulting profits in your own pocket!)
Cheers Lookie. Why didn't he just say that instead of giving bullshit business talk jargon!!
Because he's a businessman ?
No a club employee
I thought he was the Chief Operating Officer - makes him a businessman in my eyes (his too I would wager).
I think all of those good people are worth a mention, particularly if they ask a question.
Our accounts have been published, and are now available for all to see, and it may well have been £300 I am not the Treasurer as you know.
Our funds have gone on publicising the trust and the result is a very successful membership drive which continues to grow, including TNT now free, our website, surveys, the ACV campaign etc. and to nothing like this has been done before successfully. From that we've started giving back to Valley Gold saving them 2k or more, plus hopefully loads of new members, and supplying new interested fans details to branches, and helped Charlton deliver 16k leaflets which according to Wendy P may be the biggest so far by a supporters group external to the club, perhaps Airman can qualify.
We don't have 8k in the bank as I am sure you realise, we would be remiss to let our bank balance build up and do nothing after all. A museum contribution is certainly something I will put to the Board assuming there is a surplus available at some stage.
Comes from squeezing more out of the resources you have. Think of it in terms of cutting costs, maximising the capabilities of your current systems and fully utilising the skills of your personnel. In other words, get rid of what you can and make the rest of the lackeys take up the slack.
(All with the implied goal of putting any resulting profits in your own pocket!)
Cheers Lookie. Why didn't he just say that instead of giving bullshit business talk jargon!!
Because he's a businessman ?
No a club employee
I thought he was the Chief Operating Officer - makes him a businessman in my eyes (his too I would wager).
Chief Operating Officer, Businessman, Club employee. He was still talking David Brent style bullshit
Sorry but I can't list every person who asks a question over a two hour period mainly because I don't see the point and also because I don't know all of the 50 plus people by name but feel free to try when you write up the notes of your AGM. I think most people want to hear what SB and BK said rather than whether it was Covered End or Richard Redden who asked the question.
I thought I heard you say 8k on the night. It did seem like a lot but that's what I thought you said. What was the 8k figure you mentioned in relation to then?
Well done to HI for what must be a huge amount of work on the museum and well done for Razil for what must be a huge amount of work on the Trust.
I hope both are as successful as your respective efforts deserve.
I am a (non participating) member of the Trust and will consider the museum subject to finances. With the Fans Forum and Bromley Supporters club as well as all the other supporters clubs (whom i have never been to) it is good to see so much fan involvement both within and outside of the club.
Comes from squeezing more out of the resources you have. Think of it in terms of cutting costs, maximising the capabilities of your current systems and fully utilising the skills of your personnel. In other words, get rid of what you can and make the rest of the lackeys take up the slack.
(All with the implied goal of putting any resulting profits in your own pocket!)
Cheers Lookie. Why didn't he just say that instead of giving bullshit business talk jargon!!
Because he's a businessman ?
No a club employee
I thought he was the Chief Operating Officer - makes him a businessman in my eyes (his too I would wager).
Chief Operating Officer, Businessman, Club employee. He was still talking David Brent style bullshit
Comments
It's all very well "sweating the asset" but I'd have thought common sense would tell you that "know your demographic" is more important.
Mind you in 40 plus years of working one thing I've observed is that management wallahs live in their own ivory tower and desperately try to shape the world to their vision rather than the other way round.
Bit like that Canute bloke who got wet feet all those years ago.
DISCLAIMER: I don't know SB, BK, (SK or BB for Henry :-) ) so I am in no way suggesting any of this is applicable to them.
BK was at university at the same time as my oldest daughter but they didn't know each other. That's my sole knowledge of either of them.
Whether people say "sweating the asset" or "maximise profit" or "earn as much money as we can from what we have" what actually matters is HOW and that was what was missing for me.
BK and SB didn't mention the contra deal for the TVs at the meeting but the gap is still how do the screens increase both turnover and profit?
Hence my frustration that neither BK or SB explained the business plan, even in outline.
Airman has a point that a lot of what was told to the Trust at their private meeting before the public meeting and in front of the Bromley Addicks has been done before. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done again or that it can't be done better or differently though.
Although to pre-empt Airman it could be said that if you strip your organisation of skills, knowledge and experience in the way that has happened in the last two years you run the risk of "re-inventing the wheel" (see I can do management jargon too ; - ). )
Pop concerts at county cricket grounds have in general become good money spinners. Lancs, Sussex and Northants were among those earning decent income from pop concerts at their cricket grounds last season. You need the right act, of course. A concert by Madness at the Northampton county ground was oustandingly successful.Cliff Richard at the Sussex county ground at Hove made less money.
Yokshire now plan to stage two concerts a year at Headingley and Somerset (Taunton) and Durham also stage concerts at their grounds.
Personally I think the biggest issue around concerts is that we have the best and most successful custom built concert venue in Europe 1.5 miles from the Valley and which is on top of a tube station.
What we need is a nice public enquiry. That filled up the meeting rooms at the Valley for over a year as I remember. Someone complain about something in Greenwich : - )
: - )
London is great but
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/29/travel/lonely-planet-best-destinations/
It's a horrible expression.
Perhaps worse is that it is the sort of language you might use in a business meeting but not in front of your core customers (most people at that meeting would be ST holders, Valley Gold, VIPs, etc etc) as it could be heard as getting more money out of us. I don't think it was meant that way as a far I could make out the business plan is to sell Charlton and Valley to those that don't use it at the moment.
As we all know though Ansoff's matrix suggests this one of the hardest markets to tap into
http://www.smartinsights.com/marketing-planning/create-a-marketing-plan/ansoff-model/
It doesn't mean sacking workers, or making the staff work harder, and it doesn't mean sticking ticket prices up.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned but we (CAS Trust) were at the meeting and I spoke several times, at first to thank Bromley for their initial contribution of 200 quid at the start of the Trust project, which helped us get off the ground - they continue to support us now with high levels of membership I believe, and two joined on the night despite no formal trust recruitment going on; then later about Millwall and gave SB a hard time particularly around the policing something which we have and will continue to do while we think there are issues, and around communication and the gap which must be closed if we are ever to feel like a united football club.
On ABs point I don't disagree at all, no one I hope is claiming to be anything 'new' although the dynamic is completely different i.e. Supporters Trust outside the club engaging with non fans inside the club, rather than fans employed or even a supporters Director within the club doing this - I believe most would agree it is quite a lot more challenging given our position outside the club, but hopefully we are getting somewhere slowly?
I do however totally get the point about reinventing the wheel. I must also add the Valley party and Rick's huge contribution on marketing of tickets and in general around growing the fanbase, are very much an inspiration to CAS Trust. My attitude is that we need to operate in whatever environment we are in as effectively as possible and do the best we can for Charlton, and maybe we can bring new as well as established ideas to the table.
I thought it was £300 we gave the Trust but since you've got 8k in the bank now feel free to give it back or better add it to your donation to the Museum
Our accounts have been published, and are now available for all to see, and it may well have been £300 I am not the Treasurer as you know.
Our funds have gone on publicising the trust and the result is a very successful membership drive which continues to grow, including TNT now free, our website, surveys, the ACV campaign etc. and to nothing like this has been done before successfully. From that we've started giving back to Valley Gold saving them 2k or more, plus hopefully loads of new members, and supplying new interested fans details to branches, and helped Charlton deliver 16k leaflets which according to Wendy P may be the biggest so far by a supporters group external to the club, perhaps Airman can qualify.
We don't have 8k in the bank as I am sure you realise, we would be remiss to let our bank balance build up and do nothing after all. A museum contribution is certainly something I will put to the Board assuming there is a surplus available at some stage.
I thought I heard you say 8k on the night. It did seem like a lot but that's what I thought you said. What was the 8k figure you mentioned in relation to then?
I hope both are as successful as your respective efforts deserve.
I am a (non participating) member of the Trust and will consider the museum subject to finances. With the Fans Forum and Bromley Supporters club as well as all the other supporters clubs (whom i have never been to) it is good to see so much fan involvement both within and outside of the club.
What has been done wrong ?