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NEW ARTICLE: Going over Old Ground, New Ground and the Regeneration of Charlton

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  • Is the tube going there?..... and where is it going to?
    via Lewisham/Deptford is this? Interesting with all those Millwall fan's milling about.
    A river taxi?..... where do you park getting that?
    Upgrading the A2?..... The daily farce of this so called main artery is a farce any day of the week, and with all those Hammer fans going over there to the new Olympic site as well?
    TFL might pay for it...... in 10 years time maybe

    There is a tube station there. It's called North Greenwich. On the jubilee line.

  • and plans for a new DLR we assume which would take one to the venue and tube and westcombe park among other places
  • Only a small walk then!
    Car parking?
    Remind me how this serves people in north Kent where a few of us live
    Not that practical issues are a concern
    Perhaps I can use the water taxi
    A2 at a standstill just after 6.30 this morning most days my sons inform me
    Hope you enjoy it
    Not for me though
  • razil said:

    and plans for a new DLR we assume which would take one to the venue and tube and westcombe park among other places

    The planned DLR is mean to be built over the top of the A2/Blackwall tunnel approach - running from down by the O2, over Shootershill Rd and onwards to Kidbrook / Eltham. Been mentioned for a few years. Would cost Millions and cannot see it happening for 20 years, if ever. Look how long Crossrail took.
  • I have just seen a clip on BBC London News of Karen Brady at a meeting with young West Ham fans regarding the move to the Olympic Stadium, Two of the questions asked were 1) Will there be a dedicated family stand? 2) Will vegetarian food be availiable? we were not shown what the answers were. The things that worry young fans. Oh to be young again.
  • Lets go with the west Greenwich at present.
    Bermondsey one side... west ham the other side
    Cannot see a whole lot of new fans from those areas.........
    But who knows?
  • Dansk_Red said:

    I have just seen a clip on BBC London News of Karen Brady at a meeting with young West Ham fans regarding the move to the Olympic Stadium, Two of the questions asked were 1) Will there be a dedicated family stand? 2) Will vegetarian food be availiable? we were not shown what the answers were. The things that worry young fans. Oh to be young again.

    Just seen Ms Brady. Sitting with the Tory faithful at the conference at the Tories conference.
    I am sure the 'vegetarian option' was the first question she was going to ask the chancellor about at the new 'wet spam' mecca.......


  • why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?
  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

  • razil said:

    and plans for a new DLR we assume which would take one to the venue and tube and westcombe park among other places

    The planned DLR is mean to be built over the top of the A2/Blackwall tunnel approach - running from down by the O2, over Shootershill Rd and onwards to Kidbrook / Eltham. Been mentioned for a few years. Would cost Millions and cannot see it happening for 20 years, if ever. Look how long Crossrail took.
    true and perhaps that all speaks volumes about the plans generally?
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  • A move to the peninsular would be a much better journey in for me - coming in from Essex, Stratford to North Greenwich! That said, I DON'T want us to move from the Valley.

    The fact of the matter is if you want to be there you'll get there...
  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

  • imagine the water park and ride up the medway :)
  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
    You are misrepresenting me, Ken: I am certainly not "championing a move away from The Valley". Neither am I "trying to save the planet".

    Assuming you are fit and healthy, why can't you use public transport from Bexley to Charlton - or the Greenwich Peninsula? I lived in Lewisham when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and got to our games there by train and Tube without much bother.

    And like you, I walk - and enjoy it. I routinely walk the three miles to The Valley; for pre-season friendlies I walked seven miles to Welling and 11 miles to Bromley. A few weekends ago I walked nine miles in the glorious Kent countryside, and one day last week I walked 12 miles around Birmingham. I can recommend it.

    As driving in London becomes increasingly irksome, more and more people are abandoning their cars and taking the bus or the train. And cycling, and walking. It's the way to go!

  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
    You are misrepresenting me, Ken: I am certainly not "championing a move away from The Valley". Neither am I "trying to save the planet".

    Assuming you are fit and healthy, why can't you use public transport from Bexley to Charlton - or the Greenwich Peninsula? I lived in Lewisham when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and got to our games there by train and Tube without much bother.

    And like you, I walk - and enjoy it. I routinely walk the three miles to The Valley; for pre-season friendlies I walked seven miles to Welling and 11 miles to Bromley. A few weekends ago I walked nine miles in the glorious Kent countryside, and one day last week I walked 12 miles around Birmingham. I can recommend it.

    As driving in London becomes increasingly irksome, more and more people are abandoning their cars and taking the bus or the train. And cycling, and walking. It's the way to go!

    Not sure you have been reading my posts viewfinder?
    I would not go to Selhurst when we played there or Wet spam, for the same reason I was born in Charlton, and support them as my local team, for over 50 years.
    I think that is the issue you fail to recognise, it is not about personal transport demands.It is about the poor business proposal that this move to this site is based upon.
    Which so far has not been convincing, and has little merit. Sorry i will not be going, even with a free ticket, and a lift from the team bus?

    Fit and active? . Well at 62 I am probably not that, but like the fool I am train with my sons who are kent league footballers and 25. I say train play for an hour at 'goals'.
    They do not tackle me too hard, in case I drop them from the team?...... as if being the Chairman I would ever do that!.
    I used to ride a bike up until 10 years ago......so perhaps I am not the 'lard arsed' person you imagine, only concerned with personal transport solutions?
    I am taking it you do not want to discuss this in person then....?



  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
    You are misrepresenting me, Ken: I am certainly not "championing a move away from The Valley". Neither am I "trying to save the planet".

    Assuming you are fit and healthy, why can't you use public transport from Bexley to Charlton - or the Greenwich Peninsula? I lived in Lewisham when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and got to our games there by train and Tube without much bother.

    And like you, I walk - and enjoy it. I routinely walk the three miles to The Valley; for pre-season friendlies I walked seven miles to Welling and 11 miles to Bromley. A few weekends ago I walked nine miles in the glorious Kent countryside, and one day last week I walked 12 miles around Birmingham. I can recommend it.

    As driving in London becomes increasingly irksome, more and more people are abandoning their cars and taking the bus or the train. And cycling, and walking. It's the way to go!

    Not sure you have been reading my posts viewfinder?
    I would not go to Selhurst when we played there or Wet spam, for the same reason I was born in Charlton, and support them as my local team, for over 50 years.
    I think that is the issue you fail to recognise, it is not about personal transport demands.It is about the poor business proposal that this move to this site is based upon.
    Which so far has not been convincing, and has little merit. Sorry i will not be going, even with a free ticket, and a lift from the team bus?

    Fit and active? . Well at 62 I am probably not that, but like the fool I am train with my sons who are kent league footballers and 25. I say train play for an hour at 'goals'.
    They do not tackle me too hard, in case I drop them from the team?...... as if being the Chairman I would ever do that!.
    I used to ride a bike up until 10 years ago......so perhaps I am not the 'lard arsed' person you imagine, only concerned with personal transport solutions?
    I am taking it you do not want to discuss this in person then....?



    I have indeed read and enjoyed your posts, Ken - and I know you've read mine because you responded to my contribution on 28 September on this thread. I respect your views and the strength with which you hold them, and I'm certainly not trying to convert you.

    I don't even disagree with you, but I feel quite differently: even after almost 50 years' of support, I don't share your deep attachment to The Valley as a spiritual home. For me, the stadium now is like any other, devoid of charm and bearing no resemblance to The Valley of old with all its peculiar quirks and character.

    I don't mind this; I don't hanker after times past. I had no qualms about following Charlton to Selhurst Park and Upton Park because I loved the club and the team, and enjoyed the thrill of watching them play - however badly - wherever they were. We move house, and in the new one we make a home independently or together with our loved ones; later we move again, and the process starts anew. We carry our memories and affections with us, inviolate and secure.

    I say again - I am not advocating a move from The Valley. Yet I think it's important to recognise that you and I have had the best of our days, and there are generations of younger fans who have no affiliation to the things we hold dear. It's for them to make their voices heard in the shaping of the club's future.

  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
    You are misrepresenting me, Ken: I am certainly not "championing a move away from The Valley". Neither am I "trying to save the planet".

    Assuming you are fit and healthy, why can't you use public transport from Bexley to Charlton - or the Greenwich Peninsula? I lived in Lewisham when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and got to our games there by train and Tube without much bother.

    And like you, I walk - and enjoy it. I routinely walk the three miles to The Valley; for pre-season friendlies I walked seven miles to Welling and 11 miles to Bromley. A few weekends ago I walked nine miles in the glorious Kent countryside, and one day last week I walked 12 miles around Birmingham. I can recommend it.

    As driving in London becomes increasingly irksome, more and more people are abandoning their cars and taking the bus or the train. And cycling, and walking. It's the way to go!

    Not sure you have been reading my posts viewfinder?
    I would not go to Selhurst when we played there or Wet spam, for the same reason I was born in Charlton, and support them as my local team, for over 50 years.
    I think that is the issue you fail to recognise, it is not about personal transport demands.It is about the poor business proposal that this move to this site is based upon.
    Which so far has not been convincing, and has little merit. Sorry i will not be going, even with a free ticket, and a lift from the team bus?

    Fit and active? . Well at 62 I am probably not that, but like the fool I am train with my sons who are kent league footballers and 25. I say train play for an hour at 'goals'.
    They do not tackle me too hard, in case I drop them from the team?...... as if being the Chairman I would ever do that!.
    I used to ride a bike up until 10 years ago......so perhaps I am not the 'lard arsed' person you imagine, only concerned with personal transport solutions?
    I am taking it you do not want to discuss this in person then....?



    I have indeed read and enjoyed your posts, Ken - and I know you've read mine because you responded to my contribution on 28 September on this thread. I respect your views and the strength with which you hold them, and I'm certainly not trying to convert you.

    I don't even disagree with you, but I feel quite differently: even after almost 50 years' of support, I don't share your deep attachment to The Valley as a spiritual home. For me, the stadium now is like any other, devoid of charm and bearing no resemblance to The Valley of old with all its peculiar quirks and character.

    I don't mind this; I don't hanker after times past. I had no qualms about following Charlton to Selhurst Park and Upton Park because I loved the club and the team, and enjoyed the thrill of watching them play - however badly - wherever they were. We move house, and in the new one we make a home independently or together with our loved ones; later we move again, and the process starts anew. We carry our memories and affections with us, inviolate and secure.

    I say again - I am not advocating a move from The Valley. Yet I think it's important to recognise that you and I have had the best of our days, and there are generations of younger fans who have no affiliation to the things we hold dear. It's for them to make their voices heard in the shaping of the club's future.

    Viewfinder you have hit the nail on the head for me to.

    Although I am the first to admit I seldom get down to the old girl (and the Valley) much now, most of the time I am left distinctly underwhelmed by the whole experience. The fact that I have great memories, shared experiences there does not mitigate the fact that it needs investment and if that was ever to happen (not under this shower...) why not if all the numbers add up, a new build? Without getting too morbid I get the feeling that supporters of our generation will not have as much of a say as we would like to think. Shoot me down if you like but I knew the writing was on the wall when the Yorkshire Grey became a bloody McDonalds... memories are forever but nothing in life stays still (except our midfield of course).
  • Salad said:

    why couldn't the comparison be Swansea & the Liberty Stadium?

    Fair enough?
    first question on the website
    Got a season ticket but nowhere to park?
    check it out..... http://www.liberty-stadium.com/index.php
    That water taxi is going to be popular though.....

    Ken - If and when a new stadium is built, fans may have been prised out of their cars and on to public transport. It's good for the environment, better for the planet. I have never driven a car, and yet I travel all over the country. What's the problem?

    So what is particularly 'green' about knocking down a stadium , and building a new one eh?. perhaps we could park our cars on the Valley site and walk to your new mecca?
    Gonna take a lot of carbon credits for that one Viewfinder.
    Personally I would love to go to the Valley on my free bus pass form a personal perspective, but no direct route?
    Good for you you travel all over the country on public transport.( I tend to walk myself)
    Not sure I could afford to travel by train to places like Manchester, although my away day ventures are somewhat limited these days!
    You seem to be keen on championing a move away from the Valley......
    Not sure about trying to save the planet viewfinder, but good on you.
    I have enough trouble trying to save the Valley ?
    Tell you what fancy debating this on Charlton live in a couple of weeks?
    Should make a good debate..... or you can meet up at the Castrust stall tommorow/Saturday.
    You up for it?
    You are misrepresenting me, Ken: I am certainly not "championing a move away from The Valley". Neither am I "trying to save the planet".

    Assuming you are fit and healthy, why can't you use public transport from Bexley to Charlton - or the Greenwich Peninsula? I lived in Lewisham when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and got to our games there by train and Tube without much bother.

    And like you, I walk - and enjoy it. I routinely walk the three miles to The Valley; for pre-season friendlies I walked seven miles to Welling and 11 miles to Bromley. A few weekends ago I walked nine miles in the glorious Kent countryside, and one day last week I walked 12 miles around Birmingham. I can recommend it.

    As driving in London becomes increasingly irksome, more and more people are abandoning their cars and taking the bus or the train. And cycling, and walking. It's the way to go!

    Not sure you have been reading my posts viewfinder?
    I would not go to Selhurst when we played there or Wet spam, for the same reason I was born in Charlton, and support them as my local team, for over 50 years.
    I think that is the issue you fail to recognise, it is not about personal transport demands.It is about the poor business proposal that this move to this site is based upon.
    Which so far has not been convincing, and has little merit. Sorry i will not be going, even with a free ticket, and a lift from the team bus?

    Fit and active? . Well at 62 I am probably not that, but like the fool I am train with my sons who are kent league footballers and 25. I say train play for an hour at 'goals'.
    They do not tackle me too hard, in case I drop them from the team?...... as if being the Chairman I would ever do that!.
    I used to ride a bike up until 10 years ago......so perhaps I am not the 'lard arsed' person you imagine, only concerned with personal transport solutions?
    I am taking it you do not want to discuss this in person then....?



    I have indeed read and enjoyed your posts, Ken - and I know you've read mine because you responded to my contribution on 28 September on this thread. I respect your views and the strength with which you hold them, and I'm certainly not trying to convert you.

    I don't even disagree with you, but I feel quite differently: even after almost 50 years' of support, I don't share your deep attachment to The Valley as a spiritual home. For me, the stadium now is like any other, devoid of charm and bearing no resemblance to The Valley of old with all its peculiar quirks and character.

    I don't mind this; I don't hanker after times past. I had no qualms about following Charlton to Selhurst Park and Upton Park because I loved the club and the team, and enjoyed the thrill of watching them play - however badly - wherever they were. We move house, and in the new one we make a home independently or together with our loved ones; later we move again, and the process starts anew. We carry our memories and affections with us, inviolate and secure.

    I say again - I am not advocating a move from The Valley. Yet I think it's important to recognise that you and I have had the best of our days, and there are generations of younger fans who have no affiliation to the things we hold dear. It's for them to make their voices heard in the shaping of the club's future.

    Yes and I respect your view as well. I just do not agree with the move away from the valley. Still not heard any convincing argument about a financial reason.
    I also do not think the Valley could not be improved, and that is something hopefully in time can and will be addressed. Frankly the standard of football is the overriding factor when my sons and friends come down..... or as my 12 year old grandson once remarked 'Do Charlton always play as badly as this' to which the surrounding people laughed! When asked who he supported he replied 'Manchester United' in his little northern voice?. The Valley with all it's faults, still retains a place in my heart . I do not expect people to always understand that, but I do. It's a part of my culture and my upbringing. It is not perfect, but it will do for me, and hopefully my children, it is why I joined the trust for tommorows generation to see Charlton at the Valley.


  • VF and Ken - I've PMed you

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  • whats to be classed as younger fans

    as a 38yr old fan I hope to have 40yrs or so left so surely its for all ages to to make their voices heard,

    If we were to leave the Valley and build and own our own new ground then Yes I could see a financial reason to move, I would not like it, I would not go to the new ground, but I would by no ways fight it, If the majority of the fans wanted to go as it made business sense


    until that time then it should be resisted and fought at every opportunity , renting grounds and allowing others to thrive on the back of the club and its supporters is wrong whole heartedly
  • Viewfinder.

    I respect your view, but I really believe that your relaxed attitude to the days at Selhurst and Upton Park is a minority view among those who were around at the time. I hated it with every sinew of my body, and this despite the fact that it was considerably easier to get to Selhurst from my home at the time. My Mum has moved back to a little house in Eltham opposite the one where I was raised. But being back in Eltham doesn't evoke the feelings I get when I go to the Valley. I guess that the Valley is a constant throughout my life, wherever else I have roamed. It, rather than Eltham, defines where I come from. I park the car and wander down the same streets where I went with my Dad. The brick is there, commemorating him and all the others who have passed away but had one thing in common. I don't actually notice anything much wrong with the Valley either. I remember how it used to be and feel proud about how it was transformed in the Nineties. I know that away fans appreciate the Valley too as a place with an atmosphere, unlike the new plastic stadia.

    Now I accept that if we go to the Peninsula it is not as big a threat to our identity as going to Selhurst. But for me the Valley is part of what being a Charlton fan is about. People still admire the story of how we returned. It makes me still feel proud when the team has left me ashamed.

    Now the point is, there are definitely thousands who feel pretty much as I do. Not necessarily the majority, but that's not the point. We are not talking about a democratic vote here. We are talking about customers, who vote with their wallets.

    Unless the case for moving is shown to be rock-solid, including a thorough demonstration that the Valley cannot be further developed, then any move risks alienating those thousands. Thousands of customers. That is potentially a very stupid thing for business people to do.
  • edited October 2013
    Prague - It's good to read your views. I'm fully aware that I was in a minority of supporters to follow the club into exile - the attendance figures prove the fact. I was one of only 821 souls at Selhurst Park for the game against Birmingham in November 1986 at the start of a run in the Full Members' Cup that led us to Wembley. I was also at Selhurst for the last league game of the previous season when a mere 13,214 of us celebrated promotion to the top flight for the first time in almost 30 years.

    Of course I was aghast at our move from The Valley, just like everyone else. But I separated in my mind the injustice of the upheaval and the humiliation of lodging with rivals from my overriding desire to watch the team play. The refuseniks made a principled stand, but Gliksten, Fryer, and the obstructive Council could go to Hell - they were small and cowardly men compared to Johnny Humphrey, Mark Reid, Steve Thompson, Robert Lee and the rest. In a sense, I viewed our period of exile as a succession of away games; we have no compunction about watching Charlton at Blackburn and Bolton, and I treated our fixtures at Selhurst Park and Upton Park in much the same way. Pretty soon, Rick Everett and Steve Dixon began building support for a return to The Valley. Incidentally, I am appalled by the sneering criticism that Rick often receives on this site from people who don't seem to realise that without him and his band of pioneering volunteers we might not even have a club to support.

    I fully empathise with your emotional attachment to The Valley and its locality. I usually walk three miles to the ground: through Blackheath or across Greenwich Park or along by the river, while revelling in the build-up, three o' clock coming closer with every step. In Charlton Church Lane the crowds converge - then the symbolic turn of the corner and the bowl down the slope of Floyd Road. There is the man selling scarves from a stall, then the queue outside the Ocean Fish Bar, then the family sitting on a garden wall forking chips from a polystyrene tray; there are the old men standing in the road examining their tickets, then the kids patting a police horse and offering it a sweet... These are familiar and reassuring rituals enjoyed by thousands of fans going to games across the country. Finally, the half-dozen steps up in the stand - and the first sight for a fortnight of that beautiful emerald-green sward. This precise moment, even after almost 50 years of going to games, never fails to lift the heart and quicken the pulse.

    At ten-to-three, sitting with my friends in the Lower North, none of us is lamenting former times, just as fans at new grounds in Southampton and Stoke have no thoughts of former homes. We are all abuzz, bright-eyed with excitement, eager with anticipation - Who is playing for us today? What are the opposition like? Will we win?

    I'm not advocating a move, nor am I discussing here the financial requisites and ramifications. I'm interested in Lifers' perceptions of 'place' and 'home', and their bonds and allegiances; it's a fascinating subject. I may have a slightly more detached view than many, perhaps related to my career as a photographer. I feel optimistic about exploring unknown territory, secure in the knowledge that memories and affections can be transported anywhere. Not all new grounds are soulless places; look at the way Brighton have built an attractive stadium that engenders atmosphere - and it's often full to the brim. We all move house and make new homes, some of us many times. We soon adapt.

  • Viewfinder.

    Fair comment, my friend. Not much to add other than:

    I've not been to the Amex yet. But it's important to remember that Brighton fans had lost the Goldstone years ago. If on moving back from Selhurst I'd been told that it has to be a completely new stadium in Charlton, I'd have bought that. But we didn't go down that path.

    And generally, while nostalgia is rarely a value on which to build a modern business, heritage certainly is. People shouldn't underestimate the power of heritage in a football club' s offer.
  • The next stage of Charlton’s masterplan to provide 7,500 homes has taken a step closer. A plot of industrial land has been sold for £45 million to developer Montreaux.
    https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2019/08/05/charlton-land-sold-with-plans-for-up-to-1500-new-homes3/
  • Cheers @clive

    always a bit strange reading back old articles. That feels a lot longer than 6 years ago
  • edited August 2019
    clive said:
    The next stage of Charlton’s masterplan to provide 7,500 homes has taken a step closer. A plot of industrial land has been sold for £45 million to developer Montreaux.
    https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2019/08/05/charlton-land-sold-with-plans-for-up-to-1500-new-homes3/
    We could sell out The Valley every game with all these new properties being built close by (if we had a decent owner).
  • 7,500 homes in Charlton (well more as other sites not in masterplan area) and 20,000 at Greenwich could mean a huge supporter base on the clubs doorstep even discounting those sold abroad.
  • SF-02 said:
    7,500 homes in Charlton (well more as other sites not in masterplan area) and 20,000 at Greenwich could mean a huge supporter base on the clubs doorstep even discounting those sold abroad.
    It definitely could ... but much will depend on our progress ... or not if RD stays in place. 
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Roland Out!