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NEW ARTICLE: Going over Old Ground, New Ground and the Regeneration of Charlton

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Comments

  • Nadou

    Until a minute ago I couldn't understand why you'd asked the question, because I couldn't figure out a situation where we'd have to make such a choice.

    And then I realised that like me you are old enough to remember the time when the club owners and Greenwich Council conspired to tell us that the club could only survive if we moved out of the Valley.

    It turned out to be self-serving, deceitful bollocks at the time, and that is what it is now. And it is time we reminded that so called Charlton supporter Cllr. Roberts of that.
  • Except for one thing lads...
    The Valley is worth £10M ? And that's with planning... I checked it out with an industry expert,(i.e., not spiv!) and the old planning has lapsed so its worth sweet FA...
    The expert is not only an old friend going back to the 74/75 promotion season but is also an ST holder

    There are a lot of angles on this game which I've only been in for 5 minutes...but the biggest win is still the play-off final...prize £120M over 5 years

    more laters
  • Thanks Ken Very elequently put:-

    I for one, an a old fart I know (66), agree with every word. I Love my club but it has become souless with the faceless b*******s now running the show.

    You can take it from me NLA I for one will not be 'accepting lip service' about a move away from the Valley.
    When I spoke to Nick Raynsford the MP three weeks ago he told me
    'The last thing those developers want is a football stadium on that development'......
    Now you can state that was a cynical comment from a politician,..... a politician who is stepping down at the next election?
    Speaking to some one he has never met before, so why should he bother to say that? In fact he went down to the Council and spoke to the department
    without any request on our behalf. He also had other concerns about the 'peninsular regarding CAFC'
    Frankly anyone can draw up a speculative brochure , and cite tree line boulevards, and bijou cafes, with couples wandering around in a nirvana type environment with kids playing scenario
    How this squares with the current reality is somewhat at odds?
    Are we all going to drive there on the A2?..... or run the tube there as a dedicated station?
    Just a couple of 'issues' then to resolve then.....
    I have declared my position before NLA , I make no secret of it
    No valley, No CAFC for me.. and yes this is my personnal view.
  • edited September 2013
    LenGlover said:

    Nadou said:

    If it came to new ground or out of business, what would you choose?

    For me Nadou it's one and the same.

    Charlton Athletic and The Valley are in my DNA. My great grandfather, grandfather, father, myself and my daughters have all watched Charlton at The Valley and when my sixteen month old grandson is of an age I hope, if spared, to take him too.

    If Charlton are not at The Valley then, for me, they are just another football club and if we go to football it could be Gillingham, the nearest team to where I live, or West Brom, the nearest team to him.

    The emotional chain to Charlton would be broken.

    Sorry but for me that's how it is.

    Len - I respect your strength of feeling and deep attachment to The Valley, yet despite my active support for almost 50 years I don't feel the same way.

    Football grounds are mostly unlovely places entirely devoid of physical charm. They are occupied for just a couple of hours on about 25 days a year; for most of the time they are desolate hulks, open only to the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

    At twenty-to-three on match days I wait in Harvey Gardens for my friend and observe the scene: programme sellers, burger vans, stewards in orange jackets, crowds converging. It's a familiar and reassuring ritual played out across the country, with nothing in particular to delight the eye. We enter the North Stand through a dark concrete cave, cross a hideously ugly bunker-like concourse, and climb the steps for the first sight in a fortnight of the green turf: a sight to lift the spirits. The view from our seats is much the same as at any other ground: rows of plastic seats in functional stands enclosing the pitch. There is a block of flats visible in the south-west corner.

    At ten-to-three I am not thinking about the place of decades past - the towering East Terrace, the intimate Covered End - when at least the ground had a peculiar character. Nor am I thinking about my heroes Killer Hales and Mike Flanagan, and their supporting cast of Paul Walsh, Martin Robinson and Paddy Powell. I am thinking about today's game, how we might play, and what the opposition will be like. At half-time we are battered by loud music and incomprehensible announcements, and I have no wish to queue in the bunker for bad beer and incompetent service. At the final whistle we all file out to the street, quickly, and head for the pub and the post-mortem.

    My point is that the good and bad memories of 50 years of supporting Charlton can be revived anywhere and at any time. Memories are implacable, personal, and inviolate. I didn't stop going to the games when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and neither would I stop if we were to move again. Do the fans of Bolton, Huddersfield, Arsenal, Southampton and the many other clubs who have moved recently sit in their new grounds and lament the loss of former homes? I doubt it - they are intent on willing their team to win. The concrete and steel are merely functional, known mostly by the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

  • I hope we don't move, I hate all of the modern day soulless stadiums that all look the same apart from different coloured seats. I love the old grounds with history & 100 times more atmosphere.

    So any potential new ground would have 100 times less atmosphere than The Valley? Blimey. I'll bring a pillow...
  • Appreciate all the comments, but would be interested in anyone followed through the Charlton Riverside link to the 3 PDFs and came to the same conclusion as me ?
  • Appreciate all the comments, but would be interested in anyone followed through the Charlton Riverside link to the 3 PDFs and came to the same conclusion as me ?

    Not sure yet, I'm chasing through some other folks blogs and getting more confused than ever.

  • LenGlover said:

    Nadou said:

    If it came to new ground or out of business, what would you choose?

    For me Nadou it's one and the same.

    Charlton Athletic and The Valley are in my DNA. My great grandfather, grandfather, father, myself and my daughters have all watched Charlton at The Valley and when my sixteen month old grandson is of an age I hope, if spared, to take him too.

    If Charlton are not at The Valley then, for me, they are just another football club and if we go to football it could be Gillingham, the nearest team to where I live, or West Brom, the nearest team to him.

    The emotional chain to Charlton would be broken.

    Sorry but for me that's how it is.

    Len - I respect your strength of feeling and deep attachment to The Valley, yet despite my active support for almost 50 years I don't feel the same way.

    Football grounds are mostly unlovely places entirely devoid of physical charm. They are occupied for just a couple of hours on about 25 days a year; for most of the time they are desolate hulks, open only to the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

    At twenty-to-three on match days I wait in Harvey Gardens for my friend and observe the scene: programme sellers, burger vans, stewards in orange jackets, crowds converging. It's a familiar and reassuring ritual played out across the country, with nothing in particular to delight the eye. We enter the North Stand through a dark concrete cave, cross a hideously ugly bunker-like concourse, and climb the steps for the first sight in a fortnight of the green turf: a sight to lift the spirits. The view from our seats is much the same as at any other ground: rows of plastic seats in functional stands enclosing the pitch. There is a block of flats visible in the south-west corner.

    At ten-to-three I am not thinking about the place of decades past - the towering East Terrace, the intimate Covered End - when at least the ground had a peculiar character. Nor am I thinking about my heroes Killer Hales and Mike Flanagan, and their supporting cast of Paul Walsh, Martin Robinson and Paddy Powell. I am thinking about today's game, how we might play, and what the opposition will be like. At half-time we are battered by loud music and incomprehensible announcements, and I have no wish to queue in the bunker for bad beer and incompetent service. At the final whistle we all file out to the street, quickly, and head for the pub and the post-mortem.

    My point is that the good and bad memories of 50 years of supporting Charlton can be revived anywhere and at any time. Memories are implacable, personal, and inviolate. I didn't stop going to the games when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and neither would I stop if we were to move again. Do the fans of Bolton, Huddersfield, Arsenal, Southampton and the many other clubs who have moved recently sit in their new grounds and lament the loss of former homes? I doubt it - they are intent on willing their team to win. The concrete and steel are merely functional, known mostly by the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

    Sorry viewfinder I disagree.
    But that will not come as a shock will it?
    The comment about 25 days a year are the same as nearly every ground in the country. That is why you have to have a community club, that has more than just football going on. ?
    The alternative is ground share and we know the issues there don't we?..... tried that been here and there and came back.
    I agree the Valley is not without it's faults, but nothing that could not be greatly improved by ....... wait for it money.
    A decent capacity ground might help?..... might help with the financial aspect as well.
    I cannot see the relevance of the block of flat's comment?
    I do agree about the food and beer, something that is expensive and frankly poor. But again contractors can be replaced.
    I for one have an emotional tie to the ground, I was born locally, and went there with my family, some passsed away now. I also go with my children and grandchildren.
    Do the fans of other clubs have an attachment to there ground. ? Well that is for them to say, I am not a Gooner, but try asking a Wimbeldon fan, a Coventry fan, and so forth.
    Please do not sell your club's heritage for a plastic, souless mecca...... and i bet the beer is still crap, and food is expensive?
  • I dunno, it does seem odd that there is little reference to the valley and cafc, a huge arena just over the road..but then again there has been so little joined up thinking in the past in that regard its maybe not a big surprise. My view is somehow we need to take control of our own destiny.

    Perhaps we should ask the Council direct?
  • razil said:

    I dunno, it does seem odd that there is little reference to the valley and cafc, a huge arena just over the road..but then again there has been so little joined up thinking in the past in that regard its maybe not a big surprise. My view is somehow we need to take control of our own destiny.

    Perhaps we should ask the Council direct?

    Can't AB use his left wing contacts from his time as a councillor in Bexley or maybe he has already and is saving it for a future edition of VOTV :-0
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  • Morning Ken. This is a fascinating debate and I tend to side with Viewfinder - Charlton Athletic is Charlton Athletic wherever they play. But, and this is where the argument falls down a bit, I worked with an Arsenal season ticket holder at the time they moved grounds. I asked him how he felt about it - his answer was that he would probably renew but it wouldn't be the same because his brother's ashes were scattered at Highbury.
  • We could write a public letter from the trust, if that is what is thought best - I think we should see how ACV goes first, as I said in the article it is by no means a sure thing, @shootershillguru looks after such things for CASTrust.
  • Morning Phil.
    Yes of course the club have a right to play elsewhere in a business sense.
    I guess you could move to say the Olympic stadium and groundshare, change the kit colour, and rebrand yourself's the Addick's FC.
    Trouble is I for one, will not be going. Now I am sure the club will be devastated by that 'stroppy irrational behaviour position', but I am sure they will recover from it!
    The same decision I took personally when they moved to Selhurst, and West ham.
    I do not think I am alone in this position?
    We shall have to see, shall we not?




  • edited September 2013

    LenGlover said:

    Nadou said:

    If it came to new ground or out of business, what would you choose?

    For me Nadou it's one and the same.

    Charlton Athletic and The Valley are in my DNA. My great grandfather, grandfather, father, myself and my daughters have all watched Charlton at The Valley and when my sixteen month old grandson is of an age I hope, if spared, to take him too.

    If Charlton are not at The Valley then, for me, they are just another football club and if we go to football it could be Gillingham, the nearest team to where I live, or West Brom, the nearest team to him.

    The emotional chain to Charlton would be broken.

    Sorry but for me that's how it is.

    Len - I respect your strength of feeling and deep attachment to The Valley, yet despite my active support for almost 50 years I don't feel the same way.

    Football grounds are mostly unlovely places entirely devoid of physical charm. They are occupied for just a couple of hours on about 25 days a year; for most of the time they are desolate hulks, open only to the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

    At twenty-to-three on match days I wait in Harvey Gardens for my friend and observe the scene: programme sellers, burger vans, stewards in orange jackets, crowds converging. It's a familiar and reassuring ritual played out across the country, with nothing in particular to delight the eye. We enter the North Stand through a dark concrete cave, cross a hideously ugly bunker-like concourse, and climb the steps for the first sight in a fortnight of the green turf: a sight to lift the spirits. The view from our seats is much the same as at any other ground: rows of plastic seats in functional stands enclosing the pitch. There is a block of flats visible in the south-west corner.

    At ten-to-three I am not thinking about the place of decades past - the towering East Terrace, the intimate Covered End - when at least the ground had a peculiar character. Nor am I thinking about my heroes Killer Hales and Mike Flanagan, and their supporting cast of Paul Walsh, Martin Robinson and Paddy Powell. I am thinking about today's game, how we might play, and what the opposition will be like. At half-time we are battered by loud music and incomprehensible announcements, and I have no wish to queue in the bunker for bad beer and incompetent service. At the final whistle we all file out to the street, quickly, and head for the pub and the post-mortem.

    My point is that the good and bad memories of 50 years of supporting Charlton can be revived anywhere and at any time. Memories are implacable, personal, and inviolate. I didn't stop going to the games when we lodged at Selhurst Park and Upton Park, and neither would I stop if we were to move again. Do the fans of Bolton, Huddersfield, Arsenal, Southampton and the many other clubs who have moved recently sit in their new grounds and lament the loss of former homes? I doubt it - they are intent on willing their team to win. The concrete and steel are merely functional, known mostly by the wind, the rain, and the pigeons.

    Sorry viewfinder I disagree.
    But that will not come as a shock will it?
    The comment about 25 days a year are the same as nearly every ground in the country. That is why you have to have a community club, that has more than just football going on. ?
    The alternative is ground share and we know the issues there don't we?..... tried that been here and there and came back.
    I agree the Valley is not without it's faults, but nothing that could not be greatly improved by ....... wait for it money.
    A decent capacity ground might help?..... might help with the financial aspect as well.
    I cannot see the relevance of the block of flat's comment?
    I do agree about the food and beer, something that is expensive and frankly poor. But again contractors can be replaced.
    I for one have an emotional tie to the ground, I was born locally, and went there with my family, some passsed away now. I also go with my children and grandchildren.
    Do the fans of other clubs have an attachment to there ground. ? Well that is for them to say, I am not a Gooner, but try asking a Wimbeldon fan, a Coventry fan, and so forth.
    Please do not sell your club's heritage for a plastic, souless mecca...... and i bet the beer is still crap, and food is expensive?
    I respect your views, Ken. I described my own typical 'matchday experience' - including the view (hence the reference to the block of flats) and excluding the most important part (the action on the pitch) - to make the point that The Valley already is "a plastic, soulless mecca", which you rightly condemn.

    The Valley bears almost no resemblance to the place where you and I watched matches in our childhood and youth. It is now like most other grounds: merely functional and without charm or character. Lodging with Palace and West Ham presented problems of accessibility for many supporters, and was humiliating for the club as a whole. I'm not advocating a move, but who is to say that a stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula wouldn't improve the Saturday experience? Brighton's new stadium has architectural and aesthetic merit, and is a pleasure to be in.

    As I said earlier, our memories are implacable and inviolate. But us old 'uns are dying out and it is for new generations to impose their sensibilities on physical structures, to engender a sense of home and place.



  • Sorry viewfinder I disagree.
    But that will not come as a shock will it?
    The comment about 25 days a year are the same as nearly every ground in the country. That is why you have to have a community club, that has more than just football going on. ?
    The alternative is ground share and we know the issues there don't we?..... tried that been here and there and came back.
    I agree the Valley is not without it's faults, but nothing that could not be greatly improved by ....... wait for it money.
    A decent capacity ground might help?..... might help with the financial aspect as well.

    I cannot see the relevance of the block of flat's comment?
    I do agree about the food and beer, something that is expensive and frankly poor. But again contractors can be replaced.
    I for one have an emotional tie to the ground, I was born locally, and went there with my family, some passsed away now. I also go with my children and grandchildren.
    Do the fans of other clubs have an attachment to there ground. ? Well that is for them to say, I am not a Gooner, but try asking a Wimbeldon fan, a Coventry fan, and so forth.
    Please do not sell your club's heritage for a plastic, souless mecca...... and i bet the beer is still crap, and food is expensive?

    I also tend to agree with Viewfinder. Of course I have an emotional tie to The Valley but I believe its the people that give a ground soul and atmosphere.

    The Emirates and The Amex are surely the blueprints for future grounds and to bring The Valley up to that standard may be more expensive than building from scratch.
  • edited September 2013
    Saga Lout said:

    Morning Ken. This is a fascinating debate and I tend to side with Viewfinder - Charlton Athletic is Charlton Athletic wherever they play. But, and this is where the argument falls down a bit, I worked with an Arsenal season ticket holder at the time they moved grounds. I asked him how he felt about it - his answer was that he would probably renew but it wouldn't be the same because his brother's ashes were scattered at Highbury.

    It would be wrong of me to speak for the Arsenal fan, and of course I value the emotional factors that tie us to particular places. But these emotional qualities lie not in the physical world, but inside our hearts and heads - and these can be transported anywhere. Does the Arsenal fan think any less of his brother, are his love and affection for him diminished because home games are played at the Emirates instead of Highbury? Surely not.

  • Morning Phil.
    Yes of course the club have a right to play elsewhere in a business sense.
    I guess you could move to say the Olympic stadium and groundshare, change the kit colour, and rebrand yourself's the Addick's FC.
    Trouble is I for one, will not be going. Now I am sure the club will be devastated by that 'stroppy irrational behaviour position', but I am sure they will recover from it!
    The same decision I took personally when they moved to Selhurst, and West ham.
    I do not think I am alone in this position?
    We shall have to see, shall we not?

    If you re-brand and change kit colour, I agree it's (obviously) not Charlton Athletic anymore, but that is not quite what I was saying in my post. We're not talking MK Dons here, we're talking Man City, Arsenal, etc.
  • I think we should focus our energies on getting a grip on what (if anything) is going on, ACV helps a little bit but we need to do a lot more
  • But I do not see any financial basis for the move guys?
    The cost of a new stadia, the infastructure?.
    Is the idea to leaseback the ground?
    Beware of accountant's 'guesstamates', if there is one thing you can rely on the actual cost will probably bear a higher figure than originally stated.
    Is that not what all the fuss is over the proposed High speed route up North?
    Anyone convinced about the costings there?
    As I previously posted the local MP's comments last night " the last things the two developers want on that site is a football stadia'
    Those are not my words, but an MP who has had a direct contact with this consortium.
    Is the tube going there?..... and where is it going to?
    via Lewisham/Deptford is this? Interesting with all those Millwall fan's milling about.
    A river taxi?..... where do you park getting that?
    Upgrading the A2?..... The daily farce of this so called main artery is a farce any day of the week, and with all those Hammer fans going over there to the new Olympic site as well?
    TFL might pay for it...... in 10 years time maybe
    The council, what are they actually going to do? in financial terms......
    I can just picture the scene now Millwall and Charlton fan's 'at it' in the yuppie village of tommorw's world.....sure, that will convince them won't it


  • I think the blue sky thinking of the Council / Planners is generally for everything south of the Woolwich Road to be residential and for industrial/employment/leisure to be north of Woolwich Road. The Masterplan is part of that but the plan can of course be changed depending on the requirements and demand of developers/end users.

    So I guess if the current or future Board of Charlton said "we want to build a new stadium in Eastmore Street plus xxx houses and xx sq ft of commercial to make it viable", the Masterplan could be changed.

    The whole of the riverside area from the O2 to Woolwich will be developed but it will take years. I can see that there is an agenda here for us to be moved. Our current Board are in the main property developers/investors and that's why they got involved coupled with the chance of Premier League mega bucks. Property developers don't just work on 5% returns - they look for substantially more so where would that come from - sale of the club or hiving off the commercial investments to themselves like Coventry FC?

    Will we move? Unfortunately I can see it happening but it might be 10 years from now.
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  • razil said:

    We could write a public letter from the trust, if that is what is thought best - I think we should see how ACV goes first, as I said in the article it is by no means a sure thing, @shootershillguru looks after such things for CASTrust.

    The Trust should at some point but I agree with you that it might want to keep its powder dry. However private citizens should not hold back, and they dont have to mind their p's and q's as much as the Trust will. However it will be best if such letters come from Greenwich residents, otherwise you know what Roberts will say (just as Marsh and Oelman did 23 years ago). So that counts me out. Doesn't count my brother out, though...:-)

  • Posted the comment below on the "Takeover Thread" earlier today and thought it might be relevant to this discussion;

    "I agree..... (with the previous poster).. . It's far from obvious, in the absence of an Arab Grizillionaire for whom money is simply no object, how a move to a peninsula stadium complex which the Club owned outright could ever come to fruition. How would you get the numbers to work?

    There is another, more plausible scenario though. I don't think it's very likely either, but it's at least worth recognising.

    Based on the last set of published accounts, I reckon that even had all the players been amateurs the Club would have barely broken even. That's at Division 1 level, of course, but it's nevertheless a fairly sobering observation. The fact is that simply running a professional football Club, paying the rates, maintaining the Stadium and related facilities is an expensive business.

    If a wealthy, but not mega rich fan owned the Club and was concerned about its viability on a 15-20 year view, he or she might be tempted to consider the feasibility of moving in order to rent a multi purpose Stadium for use 23 days a season, perhaps even sharing it with another Club. If well designed, such a Stadium might actually help the Club to increase revenues as well as to save costs.

    There are lots of issues with such a proposition, of course, not least concerning the length and terms of the lease and how the economics might work for the Promotor. It's also clear that many fans would reject such an idea out of hand. The irony though is that such a scheme, if it ever saw the light of day, would be far more likely to make sense to a genuine fan, with the long-term interests of the Club at heart, than somebody trying to "use" the football Club to make money.

    Before I duck for cover, I'll repeat that I don't think this is likely to happen and I'm certainly not suggesting it should happen, I'm simply saying that anybody trying to understand the potential options available to secure the long-term sustainability of the Club would be likely to give such a move some serious thought."

    A plan which involved Greenwich Council (and perhaps even Lewisham too) would, of course, be likely to be to much more feasible.
  • I think you're all worrying about nothing to be honest.Well as far as moving to the Greenwich peninsular goes anyway.
    My very first visit there last night ( fleetwood mac) and the place is all about generating money. There is absolutely no way they would give up any of that precious land to little old Charlton athletic.Not a chance!
    We would never make enough money for them and nor would I suggest would football in general.It's too singular.
    Take for example last night.The place was a sell out.As it was Tuesday and Wednesday.And with the majority of people there being around the Forty year old mark. Next week ,theoretically, could be 'One direction' and thats the younger lot selling it out maybe 5 or 6 times over.The draw is phenomenal
    To think that they would build a stadium for us with ten thousand or so just rattling around in it is never going to happen.We just wouldn't attract the numbers they would want on a VERY regular basis.
    Even if we were absolutely minted and could afford the best footballers money could buy we still wouldn't be big enough for the mighty Greenwich peninsular!
  • For those who have not seen this blog, it's still worth a read.

    http://853blog.com/2013/08/19/greenwich-council-in-new-charlton-athletic-stadium-talks/
    --------------------------------

    I have eventually arrived at the idea that CAFC is basically irrelevant to the developers visions. As I understand it, the developers are substantially behind on their promises to deliver affordable housing and public money has been used to decontaminate the land. GBC is keen to be tell Joe Public that the use of its money was justified but it also means that GBC will be less than eager to fund further decontamination works at the moment, especially as the areas concerned are very heavily contaminated. To speed things up, GBC has dropped its requirements for social housing

    The sports/entertainment arena will be multi purpose but there are the many problems to overcome, such as contamination, transport links and thus completion appears to be many years hence. We haven't got the money to continue as we are, TJ is thus far being unrealistic in his demands, so he's either a bit loopy or, for reasons unknown, he can afford to play hardball at the moment. But there are undoubtedly very rich pickings to be had on the Peninsula for the real estate people and developers. With the Hong Kong businessmen moving in however, substantial sums are being pumped in. They are going for prestige high income groups now. So what will TJ do or is he destined to sit and look at circling vultures?
  • Moving to rent someone elses ground might release the capital and the maintenance obligation but just how much does the Valley cost. Running your own stadium has several benefits:
    - you get to keep the catering and conference revenue - so best maximise that - I heard that CAFC used to have one of the lowest spends in the league per head
    - if the club is on the up you can develop capacity and facilities as you go to accomodate demand and generate more revenue - the Valley can still has the Jimmy Seed end undeveloped from the 80s

    My belief is it that the Valley is home for a good few years and that crunch time comes when serious repairs are needed in 10-20 years time. One would hope that the club will have made a return to the Premier League at some point in that time frame - and if not well I'm afraid the numbers just don't add up...

    ...unless the board can cut costs, increase revenues and get the Academy generating first team players... or perhaps that's what they are doing right now? As Mundell states, 2012 accounts show that even an amateur team would lead to the club losing money but I sense that is shifting
  • We aint talking arsenal here get that into perspective Arsenal own the emirates

    wherever we move to we will not own it there is the difference and to say its more man citeh is understandable but look at the prem now


    man u
    citeh
    chelski
    arsenal
    spurs
    Liverpool

    six clubs all with serious dough, do you honestly think someone that rich will look at cafc and say I can turn them into the citeh of the sth

    come on for that to work the investment would need to be bigger than 4 of those 6 its laughable to think that nayone could invest that much into a club just to catch up, if citeh, chelski, man u invest 70 million a season we would need to spend over 400 million on players to get there

    are you honestly saying that this decision needs to be looked upon in the same light as citeh

    I gave you the comparison yesterday COVENTRY CITY
  • redsek said:

    I hope we don't move, I hate all of the modern day soulless stadiums that all look the same apart from different coloured seats. I love the old grounds with history & 100 times more atmosphere.

    So any potential new ground would have 100 times less atmosphere than The Valley? Blimey. I'll bring a pillow...
    You could bring your train spotters book
  • I think you're all worrying about nothing to be honest.Well as far as moving to the Greenwich peninsular goes anyway.
    My very first visit there last night ( fleetwood mac) and the place is all about generating money. There is absolutely no way they would give up any of that precious land to little old Charlton athletic.Not a chance!
    We would never make enough money for them and nor would I suggest would football in general.It's too singular.
    Take for example last night.The place was a sell out.As it was Tuesday and Wednesday.And with the majority of people there being around the Forty year old mark. Next week ,theoretically, could be 'One direction' and thats the younger lot selling it out maybe 5 or 6 times over
    .The draw is phenomenal
    To think that they would build a stadium for us with ten thousand or so just rattling around in it is never going to happen.We just wouldn't attract the numbers they would want on a VERY regular basis.
    Even if we were absolutely minted and could afford the best footballers money could buy we still wouldn't be big enough for the mighty Greenwich peninsular!

    The O2 main arena area hold a max of 15k I believe - by adding 'an open air' arena/sports facility you can effectively double that and get a rent for a football team to play there 25-30 times a season
  • sammy391 said:

    I think you're all worrying about nothing to be honest.Well as far as moving to the Greenwich peninsular goes anyway.
    My very first visit there last night ( fleetwood mac) and the place is all about generating money. There is absolutely no way they would give up any of that precious land to little old Charlton athletic.Not a chance!
    We would never make enough money for them and nor would I suggest would football in general.It's too singular.
    Take for example last night.The place was a sell out.As it was Tuesday and Wednesday.And with the majority of people there being around the Forty year old mark. Next week ,theoretically, could be 'One direction' and thats the younger lot selling it out maybe 5 or 6 times over
    .The draw is phenomenal
    To think that they would build a stadium for us with ten thousand or so just rattling around in it is never going to happen.We just wouldn't attract the numbers they would want on a VERY regular basis.
    Even if we were absolutely minted and could afford the best footballers money could buy we still wouldn't be big enough for the mighty Greenwich peninsular!

    The O2 main arena area hold a max of 15k I believe - by adding 'an open air' arena/sports facility you can effectively double that and get a rent for a football team to play there 25-30 times a season
    I have no experience of playing on it but how close are we to an acceptable artificial pitch and would that make the finances substantially different ?
  • They are very good now but don't think they are allowed in top divisions at present unless part grass part artificial..
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Roland Out!