My first game in 5 years! You can't paper over the cracks that we looked poor at the back. Morrison sleeping for first and second. I was looking forward to the game oh well back to the states today
Posting without reading here goes. Firstly I am not as critical as some about the ref I really believe that he would have abandoned the match rather than suspend if the score had been 0-0 but rightly IMO he wanted to give Doncaster a chance to complete the match which if we are all honest in the same position that is what we would have wanted. I have to question why our match was the only one to be abandoned what does that say about our pitch and the drainage? with little or no rain over the last 8 weeks or so it should have been able to cope.
CP needs to have a strong word with Hamer who acted like a five year old constantly complaining and sulking his job is goalkeeper not referee that bloke is really begining to get on my nerves he is becoming a big tart! Had to laugh at the newspaper reports where CP stated that "We were ready to play on" Bollocks! from the minute they came back Hamer and Morrison were moaning non-stop. As hard as Doncaster tried to get the game on we were trying to get it called off, not that I blame them, whether they would have retrieved the game we will never know.
Likewise he needs to look at the defence Wiggins was all over the place, Morrison not much better either shake them up or drop them.
CP also needs to have a long hard look at the team and their performance fair play to Doncaster they rolled their sleevs up and gave it a go and we looked absolutely dreadful if this is the way it is then we will struggle. Good point Cousins got on with it and looked a potentially fine player and showed his senior colleagues what being a professional really means.
The local aspect is surely a red herring - given how unlikely an explanation it would be, the burden of proof lies with those throwing it out there. It might possibly have been an explanation for a short torrential downpour but we had steady rain (only) for several hours.
There was no rain at all between about 1.45 and 2.40, which I know because I was selling the Voice. When it rains you have to protect the copies from getting soaked, as I did before and after that.
By about 2.40-45 it was absolutely belting down, which continued into the first phase of the match. So in fact it was a short torrential downpour, albeit it had rained overnight and through the morning - the worst of both worlds, in fact.
Posting without reading here goes. Firstly I am not as critical as some about the ref I really believe that he would have abandoned the match rather than suspend if the score had been 0-0 but rightly IMO he wanted to give Doncaster a chance to complete the match which if we are all honest in the same position that is what we would have wanted. I have to question why our match was the only one to be abandoned what does that say about our pitch and the drainage? with little or no rain over the last 8 weeks or so it should have been able to cope.
CP needs to have a strong word with Hamer who acted like a five year old constantly complaining and sulking his job is goalkeeper not referee that bloke is really begining to get on my nerves he is becoming a big tart! Had to laugh at the newspaper reports where CP stated that "We were ready to play on" Bollocks! from the minute they came back Hamer and Morrison were moaning non-stop. As hard as Doncaster tried to get the game on we were trying to get it called off, not that I blame them, whether they would have retrieved the game we will never know.
Likewise he needs to look at the defence Wiggins was all over the place, Morrison not much better either shake them up or drop them.
CP also needs to have a long hard look at the team and their performance fair play to Doncaster they rolled their sleevs up and gave it a go and we looked absolutely dreadful if this is the way it is then we will struggle. Good point Cousins got on with it and looked a potentially fine player and showed his senior colleagues what being a professional really means.
They did not want to play on at all - why would they? Jackson jokingly poured a water bottle on the pitch so no. They did not want to continue.
The local aspect is surely a red herring - given how unlikely an explanation it would be, the burden of proof lies with those throwing it out there. It might possibly have been an explanation for a short torrential downpour but we had steady rain (only) for several hours.
It may well be that the groundstaff are doing a superb job with limited resources but after yesterday and last season's pitch horrors, it is reasonable to at least suggest they might be at fault.
It is in fact a good explanation. Rainfall amounts are surprisingly variable over very small distances but, unless you and your mates carry rain gauges around you, you will probably never know. If you had taken a look at the met office old rain radar yesterday which shows it over 6 hours you would have seen how it swirled around a centre just a few miles to the east, continually intensifying and fading away over distances of less than half a kilometre.
The other problem with heavy rain in a dry and sunny summer is that it has nowhere to go - it cannot soak quickly into the dry soil lower down so stays on the surface.
For the record, I live about 10 miles from The Valley and have recorded 50cm of rain since Thursday.
The local aspect is surely a red herring - given how unlikely an explanation it would be, the burden of proof lies with those throwing it out there. It might possibly have been an explanation for a short torrential downpour but we had steady rain (only) for several hours.
It may well be that the groundstaff are doing a superb job with limited resources but after yesterday and last season's pitch horrors, it is reasonable to at least suggest they might be at fault.
It is in fact a good explanation. Rainfall amounts are surprisingly variable over very small distances but, unless you and your mates carry rain gauges around you, you will probably never know. If you had taken a look at the met office old rain radar yesterday which shows it over 6 hours you would have seen how it swirled around a centre just a few miles to the east, continually intensifying and fading away over distances of less than half a kilometre.
The other problem with heavy rain in a dry and sunny summer is that it has nowhere to go - it cannot soak quickly into the dry soil lower down so stays on the surface.
For the record, I live about 10 miles from The Valley and have recorded 50cm of rain since Thursday.
Thanks for your reasoned response - it remains a potential explanation however, not a good one as you put it.
Anyhow I have no way of proving there was more rain in SE7 8BL than elsewhere in the South East (where virtually no other games were impacted). However I find it interesting how people will jump onboard a theory like the 'localised' one with no evidence of it, yet readily discount hard provable evidence to the contrary (ie. all those other local matches which completed). Moreover the state of our pitch last season was further circumstantial evidence to suggest the explanation lay elsewhere.
But NYA that the other games were played is NOT "hard provable evidence" relevant to what happen in SE7.
The only relevant evidence was before all our eyes. The pitch was clearly waterlogged.
My issue is why our pitch was unable to cope not that it wasn't waterlogged (though I didn't think it was necessarily 'unplayable').
I am suggesting there is more evidence that we have a problem with our pitch than there was more rain in SE7 than elsewhere. Other than the (possibly irrelevant) observation that the groundsmen weren't working very hard yesterday, I am not necessarily pinning blame on Paddy and his team - indeed maybe the pitch should be even worse.
But NYA that the other games were played is NOT "hard provable evidence" relevant to what happen in SE7.
The only relevant evidence was before all our eyes. The pitch was clearly waterlogged.
My issue is why our pitch was unable to cope not that it wasn't waterlogged (though I didn't think it was necessarily 'unplayable').
I am suggesting there is more evidence that we have a problem with our pitch than there was more rain in SE7 than elsewhere. Other than the (possibly irrelevant) observation that the groundsmen weren't working very hard yesterday, I am not necessarily pinning blame on Paddy and his team - indeed maybe the pitch should be even worse.
This was the first match at The Valley in 50 years to be abandoned.
Given that fact my inclination is to put it down to localised weather conditions.
The slightly curious thing for me was how variable the pitch was. Our goalmouth and the section down the the East Stand were unplayable, whereas the rest of the pitch was poor but playable. Therefore their hoofs towards our end stuck in the mud, whereas our hoofs down their end bounced high and out of play!
Whenever I've seen referees do an inspection on a waterlogged pitch they use a ball to see how it rolls and bounces. This ref didn't do that. There was no way that a couple of blokes with pitchforks were going to make the pitch any better. I think the ref was right to give the game every chance of finishing but if he had inspected the pitch properly I think we could all have left half an hour earlier.
Whenever I've seen referees do an inspection on a waterlogged pitch they use a ball to see how it rolls and bounces. This ref didn't do that. There was no way that a couple of blokes with pitchforks were going to make the pitch any better. I think the ref was right to give the game every chance of finishing but if he had inspected the pitch properly I think we could all have left half an hour earlier.
That's what annoys me, we were there until the usual time, 4:50pm, but saw 45 minutes if football because of his messing about.
At least the club made some money from food & drink, having two breaks from football for some 45 mins. Perhaps our new American owners will split the game into quarters!
The slightly curious thing for me was how variable the pitch was. Our goalmouth and the section down the the East Stand were unplayable, whereas the rest of the pitch was poor but playable. Therefore their hoofs towards our end stuck in the mud, whereas our hoofs down their end bounced high and out of play!
It's true the ball bounced through to their keeper but not ours.
The ground seems to slope down from the away end and into the north-east corner. so that would explain why one part of the ground was worse than the rest.
Putting Saturday's match to one side I find there's a difficulty with having an objective debate about the state of our pitch because - by implication - we are tacitly criticising one of our heroes who is now responsible for it. However, there is clearly something not right with the once immaculate pitch and I wouldn't want us to get a reputation among other clubs as having a surface which is not fit for purpose.
Putting Saturday's match to one side I find there's a difficulty with having an objective debate about the state of our pitch because - by implication - we are tacitly criticising one of our heroes who is now responsible for it. However, there is clearly something not right with the once immaculate pitch and I wouldn't want us to get a reputation among other clubs as having a surface which is not fit for purpose.
Its a bit early to say there is something wrong with the pitch, or Paddy's management thereof. The referee was sure it was playable BEFORE the game, we've not had a rained off match for literally decades, and it was only one corner that seemed to have the problem. None of which is to say it was good nor impressive that the pitch became unplayable, merely that it could well be a fluke - and I am sure Paddy and his team will be more disappointed than any Doncaster fan at what happened.
Putting Saturday's match to one side I find there's a difficulty with having an objective debate about the state of our pitch because - by implication - we are tacitly criticising one of our heroes who is now responsible for it. However, there is clearly something not right with the once immaculate pitch and I wouldn't want us to get a reputation among other clubs as having a surface which is not fit for purpose.
Its a bit early to say there is something wrong with the pitch, or Paddy's management thereof. The referee was sure it was playable BEFORE the game, we've not had a rained off match for literally decades, and it was only one corner that seemed to have the problem. None of which is to say it was good nor impressive that the pitch became unplayable, merely that it could well be a fluke - and I am sure Paddy and his team will be more disappointed than any Doncaster fan at what happened.
That's a very reasonable and well made point - however the pitch was cutting up badly last year and there were bare patches all over from it from quite an early stage. I should imagine it's an extremely difficult problem to fix once problems start
In some ways it is good we did not get an home draw in the Capital One Cup tomorrow night, the pitch has a week to recover, only just realised, we do not play at home after Saturday until the Millwall game which will give the pitch 3weeks to recover. I am sure that Paddy wanted the game called off after 20 mins regardless of the score, as more damage was done to covered end goal mouth by all the sweeping etc.
We did have a rained off match when we were in the Premiership - NY Day v West Ham, so it is not unheard of. After all, think about the name of the ground and the local topography - it is an old quarry, and therefore water from the surrounding area is prone to drain into it...
It absolutely chucked it down for a period after the game started onto an already saturated but playable pitch. The drainage simply couldn't cope but I think we got a freak shower and you have to accept these acts of god rather than use it to bemoan the club !
As the dust has settled on the game, I think we can't be too harsh. The first goal was down to good play and poor defending, the second goal came from a desperate clearance when a harmless ball stuck in the goalmouth and was clumsily cleared - I think you do have to blame the conditions for that one. I think it was difficult for defenders and especially the keeper as the goal area was saturated. Hamer was moaning because he had difficulty moving and to be fair - our goal was a lot worse than theirs.
I think most - those around me seemed to - noticed this and it gave us some hope of a comeback. That was before we pulled one back and when they had a man sent off. I said to my brother at the time - I would have taken the sending off above a goal on that pitch!
I really find it hard to take Doncaster moaning seriously. Defending that goal with a man down on a sodden pitch - It would have taken something special from them to come out with the 3 points. Maybe we were fortunate the way those last 18 minutes of the first half panned out but the pendulum had taken a mighty swing
I was not relieved the game was called off - I really felt it was set up for us.
...I really find it hard to take Doncaster moaning seriously...
I think both clubs reacted exactly as you'd expect them too. I always take what managers say with pinch of salt. Paul Dickov was in a position where he effectively had to moan. Not that that seems to be something he finds too difficult. With a 2 goal lead he's got to show faith in his team whether he thinks they'd have cruised the second half or whether he was worried that we'd peg them back. That, and the sense of injustice they probably feel about Keegan facing a suspension, means that him and John Ryan were bound to kick off.
As for Chris Powell, he had to say that we wanted to play on. He might have honestly believed we could beat them. He might have feared we'd be in for more of a torrid time in the second half. But, whatever his belief, he can't say anything that would undermine the team. "Ha ha, we got out of jail free there", were never going to be his words.
At 3-0 down it looked certain we'd lose. 3-1 against ten men does not look such an insurmountable task though, especially when taking the goalmouth disparity into account. We'll never know what would have happened, and that's the beauty of it. The optimists can believe we'd have done it; the pessimists can enjoy wallowing in the agony of a defeat which actually cost us nothing and the debate can go on for ever.
Posting without reading here goes. CP needs to have a strong word with Hamer who acted like a five year old constantly complaining and sulking his job is goalkeeper not referee that bloke is really begining to get on my nerves he is becoming a big tart!
Perhaps it is because he realised that goalkeepers are the ones most likely to be kicked when a challenge is mistimed because the ball does not run properly. You should also realise that if anyone is a "big tart" the last position they would play is goalkeeper in professional football - these guys usually get the most kicks and knocks and do the least complaining when they are hurt.
Would be interesting to know what changed the situation at half time - was Dickov suddenly less enthusiastic with 10 men and only a 2 goal advantage, did someone talk to the ref, did the PFA reps say something?
Comments
Dervite and Cort should start next week. They formed a solid enough partnership against millwall last season.
CP needs to have a strong word with Hamer who acted like a five year old constantly complaining and sulking his job is goalkeeper not referee that bloke is really begining to get on my nerves he is becoming a big tart! Had to laugh at the newspaper reports where CP stated that "We were ready to play on" Bollocks! from the minute they came back Hamer and Morrison were moaning non-stop. As hard as Doncaster tried to get the game on we were trying to get it called off, not that I blame them, whether they would have retrieved the game we will never know.
Likewise he needs to look at the defence Wiggins was all over the place, Morrison not much better either shake them up or drop them.
CP also needs to have a long hard look at the team and their performance fair play to Doncaster they rolled their sleevs up and gave it a go and we looked absolutely dreadful if this is the way it is then we will struggle. Good point Cousins got on with it and looked a potentially fine player and showed his senior colleagues what being a professional really means.
By about 2.40-45 it was absolutely belting down, which continued into the first phase of the match. So in fact it was a short torrential downpour, albeit it had rained overnight and through the morning - the worst of both worlds, in fact.
The other problem with heavy rain in a dry and sunny summer is that it has nowhere to go - it cannot soak quickly into the dry soil lower down so stays on the surface.
For the record, I live about 10 miles from The Valley and have recorded 50cm of rain since Thursday.
Anyhow I have no way of proving there was more rain in SE7 8BL than elsewhere in the South East (where virtually no other games were impacted). However I find it interesting how people will jump onboard a theory like the 'localised' one with no evidence of it, yet readily discount hard provable evidence to the contrary (ie. all those other local matches which completed). Moreover the state of our pitch last season was further circumstantial evidence to suggest the explanation lay elsewhere.
The only relevant evidence was before all our eyes. The pitch was clearly waterlogged.
I am suggesting there is more evidence that we have a problem with our pitch than there was more rain in SE7 than elsewhere. Other than the (possibly irrelevant) observation that the groundsmen weren't working very hard yesterday, I am not necessarily pinning blame on Paddy and his team - indeed maybe the pitch should be even worse.
This was the first match at The Valley in 50 years to be abandoned.
Given that fact my inclination is to put it down to localised weather conditions.
The ground seems to slope down from the away end and into the north-east corner. so that would explain why one part of the ground was worse than the rest.
As the dust has settled on the game, I think we can't be too harsh. The first goal was down to good play and poor defending, the second goal came from a desperate clearance when a harmless ball stuck in the goalmouth and was clumsily cleared - I think you do have to blame the conditions for that one. I think it was difficult for defenders and especially the keeper as the goal area was saturated. Hamer was moaning because he had difficulty moving and to be fair - our goal was a lot worse than theirs.
I think most - those around me seemed to - noticed this and it gave us some hope of a comeback. That was before we pulled one back and when they had a man sent off. I said to my brother at the time - I would have taken the sending off above a goal on that pitch!
I really find it hard to take Doncaster moaning seriously. Defending that goal with a man down on a sodden pitch - It would have taken something special from them to come out with the 3 points. Maybe we were fortunate the way those last 18 minutes of the first half panned out but the pendulum had taken a mighty swing
I was not relieved the game was called off - I really felt it was set up for us.
As for Chris Powell, he had to say that we wanted to play on. He might have honestly believed we could beat them. He might have feared we'd be in for more of a torrid time in the second half. But, whatever his belief, he can't say anything that would undermine the team. "Ha ha, we got out of jail free there", were never going to be his words.
At 3-0 down it looked certain we'd lose. 3-1 against ten men does not look such an insurmountable task though, especially when taking the goalmouth disparity into account. We'll never know what would have happened, and that's the beauty of it. The optimists can believe we'd have done it; the pessimists can enjoy wallowing in the agony of a defeat which actually cost us nothing and the debate can go on for ever.