The club has for many years drawn attention to our large catchment area and the relative wealth thereof, but I think its relevance is overstated. Factors such as history and alternative leisure options are far more relevant, particularly so in London (whose population is far more transient than the rest of the country and where alternatives to spending £25-30 going to a football match are abundant).
The likes of MK Dons, Bournemouth and Swindon could all rightfully claim they are located in a large well-off catchment area not surrounded by other clubs, but they each get poor crowds whilst the likes of Burnley and Sunderland attract home gates equivalent to 20% of the area's entire population.
I'm not suggesting that more shouldn't be done, but it would take decades for us to get anywhere close to a core following of 30,000+.
What hasn't been done in recent years, other than a huge reduction in a ST price, that could potentially fill the ground, that would not adversely impact on income, nor impact on ST holder value / goodwill ?
We regularly have between 13-15,000 empty seats in the stadium at a time when we offer the world and his kids free or discounted tickets, yet half the time don't turn up on the freebies.
That really is a desperate situation. I honestly had no idea that so many freebies were routinely dished out - and (this is what's truly shocking) half of them aren't even taken up. When considered like that, any schemes designed to alter price elasticity are futile. Yet, yet - those footy-for-a-fiver games do fill the ground. I'm not trying to look at this problem from an accountant's point of view. Instead, I'm trying to think of ways that would elevate the atmosphere in the ground both for the (albeit debatable) benefit of the team performance, and for the simple enjoyment of us, the fans.
What hasn't been done in recent years, other than a huge reduction in a ST price, that could potentially fill the ground, that would not adversely impact on income, nor impact on ST holder value / goodwill ?
We regularly have between 13-15,000 empty seats in the stadium at a time when we offer the world and his kids free or discounted tickets, yet half the time don't turn up on the freebies.
That really is a desperate situation. I honestly had no idea that so many freebies were routinely dished out - and (this is what's truly shocking) half of them aren't even taken up. When considered like that, any schemes designed to alter price elasticity are futile. Yet, yet - those footy-for-a-fiver games do fill the ground. I'm not trying to look at this problem from an accountant's point of view. Instead, I'm trying to think of ways that would elevate the atmosphere in the ground both for the (albeit debatable) benefit of the team performance, and for the simple enjoyment of us, the fans.
Maybe the football-for-a-fiver concept becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because people do value watching a (rare) match in a full stadium given the improved atmosphere and greater sense of occasion? The incentive of the discounted price might not be as powerful as it appears.
I grew up in Watford. My school used to get tons of free tickets to Vicarage Road. I didn't bother because I supported Charlton.
By the time kids have reached high school age, I reckon that they have already decided which them they support. They then have the cheek to turn up wearing their Arsenal shirts.
If only we could get to them sooner. I guess that only on field success and increased media coverage can do this.
I grew up in Watford. My school used to get tons of free tickets to Vicarage Road. I didn't bother because I supported Charlton.
By the time kids have reached high school age, I reckon that they have already decided which them they support. They then have the cheek to turn up wearing their Arsenal shirts.
If only we could get to them sooner. I guess that only on field success and increased media coverage can do this.
I don't think the issue is so much missing out on local kids who support other clubs, but working out how to convert the very large % of people who have very little interest in football and turning them from at best very occasional attendees to regular ones/season ticket holders. It only requires converting one generation and then you probably have each subsequent generation for life (hence my comments above about the importance/relevance of history).
Unfortunately the club can only do so much in terms of pricing, marketing and improving the overall 'experience'. Many other factors like transport, weather, fan behaviour etc. are out of their hands.
so how come Brighton and other clubs have managed this, and coming from a smaller start. Look at their ticketing and match day experience, it is streets ahead.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
t has always struck me that our supporters do not reflect the ethnic mix of the Charlton area. I understand the historical reasons for this, but nevertheless, I would like to have seen a drive to bring a new audience to our games. Whilst I'm not keen on business catch phrases, adapt or die seems to me highly relevant at the moment.
We do better than, say, Millwall but you're right, our support is probably 95% white - I doubt this is reflective of South East London.
If we could tap into this demographic we'd be doing very well indeed.
I think you'd be surprised if you went to Millwall regularly. There is quite a mix, by no means representative of the area, but no club is, but it's a lot better than the press would have you believe. The Charlton on here that live in certain areas will know, as has been mentioned on here before.
t has always struck me that our supporters do not reflect the ethnic mix of the Charlton area. I understand the historical reasons for this, but nevertheless, I would like to have seen a drive to bring a new audience to our games. Whilst I'm not keen on business catch phrases, adapt or die seems to me highly relevant at the moment.
We do better than, say, Millwall but you're right, our support is probably 95% white - I doubt this is reflective of South East London.
If we could tap into this demographic we'd be doing very well indeed.
I think you'd be surprised if you went to Millwall regularly. There is quite a mix, by no means representative of the area, but no club is, but it's a lot better than the press would have you believe. The Charlton on here that live in certain areas will know, as has been mentioned on here before.
Hmm. I went to the game at The Den. I didn't see one black or asian person. And I was looking.
perhaps we could host a 20/20 match to encourage those fans who might be more into that to at least come and visit the Valley - an asset of the community
so how come Brighton and other clubs have managed this, and coming from a smaller start. Look at their ticketing and match day experience, it is streets ahead.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
All very good but whose paying for this technology? What is the budget? And what's the return? Innovate/implement/increment are great alliterative buzz words but what does that actually translate into as action? And who's going to do it?
The Club have made the maintenance man redundant this week.
It's great that the Trust are trying to think of new approaches (even if Target 20,000 isn't really that new) but I think you need to put more flash on the bone before coming out with this stuff, especially when you need some real buy in from senior levels at the Club first.
t has always struck me that our supporters do not reflect the ethnic mix of the Charlton area. I understand the historical reasons for this, but nevertheless, I would like to have seen a drive to bring a new audience to our games. Whilst I'm not keen on business catch phrases, adapt or die seems to me highly relevant at the moment.
We do better than, say, Millwall but you're right, our support is probably 95% white - I doubt this is reflective of South East London.
If we could tap into this demographic we'd be doing very well indeed.
I think you'd be surprised if you went to Millwall regularly. There is quite a mix, by no means representative of the area, but no club is, but it's a lot better than the press would have you believe. The Charlton on here that live in certain areas will know, as has been mentioned on here before.
Hmm. I went to the game at The Den. I didn't see one black or asian person. And I was looking.
"I think you'd be surprised if you went to Millwall regularly"
"The Charlton on here that live in certain areas will know, as has been mentioned on here before."
so how come Brighton and other clubs have managed this, and coming from a smaller start. Look at their ticketing and match day experience, it is streets ahead.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
All very good but whose paying for this technology? What is the budget? And what's the return? Innovate/implement/increment are great alliterative buzz words but what does that actually translate into as action? And who's going to do it?
The Club have made the maintenance man redundant this week.
It's great that the Trust are trying to think of new approaches (even if Target 20,000 isn't really that new) but I think you need to put more flash on the bone before coming out with this stuff, especially when you need some real buy in from senior levels at the Club first.
Ideas cost nothing, sure some need investment, but some don't. At the very least we hope to ressurrect t20-30 whatever its called.
One thing the club didn't do I believe is capture details on a lot of the freebie recipients, give aways etc, so the net effect was fill the ground for the odd game but no database to leverage repeats etc. In a recent meeting we discussed this and touched on a number of areas.
There are a whole raft of initiatives that we CAS Trust would like to explore with CAFC, that we believe would add to our gate incrementally year on year (in real terms) on year and hopefully we can continue on this path and start a formal group to do this, there are 8,000 empty seats doing nothing for the club. I can't say more than that at the moment but so far the signs are positive.
Can't we get school kids hooked to the club by having incentives such as 'free' tours of the stadium / training ground accompanied by a mum and/or dad who also go free, offering discount vouchers for merchandise and attending matches on such visits. Get some players to sign autographs and chat with the kids. There must be potential for 30 new Charlton kids each week wanting to attend matches if targeted properly. I know we often bring in the schools by the bus load and offer cheap ticket pricing but there can't be anything better than bringing them closer to the club by letting them inside it.
so how come Brighton and other clubs have managed this, and coming from a smaller start. Look at their ticketing and match day experience, it is streets ahead.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
All very good but whose paying for this technology? What is the budget? And what's the return? Innovate/implement/increment are great alliterative buzz words but what does that actually translate into as action? And who's going to do it?
The Club have made the maintenance man redundant this week.
It's great that the Trust are trying to think of new approaches (even if Target 20,000 isn't really that new) but I think you need to put more flash on the bone before coming out with this stuff, especially when you need some real buy in from senior levels at the Club first.
so how come Brighton and other clubs have managed this, and coming from a smaller start. Look at their ticketing and match day experience, it is streets ahead.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
Match day experience must be a factor - Brighton's new ground is in a beautiful location and the concourses/seating areas are first class.
By comparison the concourses in 2 of the 3 'premier' areas of The Valley (Upper West and East) are open to the elements (not pleasant in the winter to have nowhere to go to warm up a bit), whilst the Lower West and North are crowded and gloomy.
Realistically not much the club can do about this either.
Perhaps we need band of cheerleaders to improve the matchday experiencea . Nah let's not.
why not? .. to save a few quid the directors could ask for cheerleader volunteers from CLife .. but count me out, I live too far away and I am ugly, got good legs though (:->)
Charlton could benefit from a huge support based, most of the South-East of England is full of 'fans' of London PL clubs, which they rarely get to see as the clubs are either too far away for them or its too expensive. I have a friend who is an Arsenal fan who I brought to a couple of games this season, he's gone and got a season ticket because he likes it so much
I grew up in Watford. My school used to get tons of free tickets to Vicarage Road. I didn't bother because I supported Charlton.
By the time kids have reached high school age, I reckon that they have already decided which them they support. They then have the cheek to turn up wearing their Arsenal shirts.
If only we could get to them sooner. I guess that only on field success and increased media coverage can do this.
I don't think the issue is so much missing out on local kids who support other clubs, but working out how to convert the very large % of people who have very little interest in football and turning them from at best very occasional attendees to regular ones/season ticket holders. It only requires converting one generation and then you probably have each subsequent generation for life (hence my comments above about the importance/relevance of history).
Unfortunately the club can only do so much in terms of pricing, marketing and improving the overall 'experience'. Many other factors like transport, weather, fan behaviour etc. are out of their hands.
There are thousands of kids who love football. Their parents will pay the £70 to buy them the latest City or Chelsea kit, but never take them to Stamford Bridge or Wastelands.
These are the ones to target. £50 to watch a whole season of live Championship football is peanuts.
Not sure how you get through to them. Maybe target parents, marketing it as a cheap and exciting way for them to bond with their sons or daughters! Like how Hornby marketed model trains years ago.
To consider this seriously you have to forget performance on the pitch and top 10 finishes because that is 100% dependent upon strengthening the squad, retaining the management and a large dose of luck. I am surprised at the cinicism of some on here who I had thought supported the idea of finding ways to hels p the fans to help the Trust to help the club.
It is very clear to me from survey analysis that attracting new fans simply is not happening at the rate it needs to.... there will be some precise numbers out soon but the simple fact is that c. 5% of the fanbase have been coming since we were relegated which is the same as the Selhurst Years!
I am a finance and data guy who has learnt a little about marketing from helping to launch the trust...we have gathered a number of ideas from members and need to work on this...Happy to get ideas from a message board too but this doesn't solve anything. As Razil suggests, we will be presenting to the club and, contrary to some on here, we are engaged at Board level so maybe next season will see something new?
Who knows if we can ever get a regular 30,000 attendance, but there are certainly things in the clubs control that can push us to that figure. Its good to know that the trust is being allowed in by the current board and engaging in a dialogue.
Seriously Red, I really don't think you can forget performance on the pitch, good performances attract crowds, however improving the customer service and making the match day a positive experience will add to retention of fans, especially those transient fans who may attend only a few times a season or even only on "offer" days. There is a lot more that the club can do here.
Much more could be done to "milk" the database and follow up promotion days and targeting of free tickets, I get the impression that giving these to schools is more about boosting match day figures than encouraging new fans to attend. Of course ijn the short term we may well have to contend with West ham trying to sell their excess tickets for the stadium we have all contributed to for them and with the excesses they will have be prepared for some pretty strong loss leaders in a couple of years time for Premiership matches.
To consider this seriously you have to forget performance on the pitch and top 10 finishes because that is 100% dependent upon strengthening the squad, retaining the management and a large dose of luck. I am surprised at the cinicism of some on here who I had thought supported the idea of finding ways to hels p the fans to help the Trust to help the club.
It is very clear to me from survey analysis that attracting new fans simply is not happening at the rate it needs to.... there will be some precise numbers out soon but the simple fact is that c. 5% of the fanbase have been coming since we were relegated which is the same as the Selhurst Years!
I am a finance and data guy who has learnt a little about marketing from helping to launch the trust...we have gathered a number of ideas from members and need to work on this...Happy to get ideas from a message board too but this doesn't solve anything. As Razil suggests, we will be presenting to the club and, contrary to some on here, we are engaged at Board level so maybe next season will see something new?
I take it you mean 5 per cent of the current fanbase first came to watch after we were relegated? That does seem like a shockingly low figure.
Like I said we will publish more precise numbers in a full survey report.
Just looked it up and the number is 8% since 2007
Total numbers: 50.5% pre-date leaving the Valley; 7.5% Selhurst; 19% back at the Valley; 15% Premier League; 8% since relegation from the Premier League.
So its 3% a year when marketing / promotion was full on in the 90s...but the numbers who first came to the Valley in the Premier League AND still come are less than 2% per season.
As for the catchment area we gathered the first two letters of the post code which gives a pretty good idea of where people live now...not the same as when fans started going but still a picture.
Plus, Brighton's catchment area is huge. Pretty much the only club in Sussex. Having spoken to a lot of their fans, a lot of people from across the county who previously supported the likes of Man U, Liverpool etc changed allegiance once a bit of success came along (and of course the new stadium).
Comments
The likes of MK Dons, Bournemouth and Swindon could all rightfully claim they are located in a large well-off catchment area not surrounded by other clubs, but they each get poor crowds whilst the likes of Burnley and Sunderland attract home gates equivalent to 20% of the area's entire population.
I'm not suggesting that more shouldn't be done, but it would take decades for us to get anywhere close to a core following of 30,000+.
By the time kids have reached high school age, I reckon that they have already decided which them they support. They then have the cheek to turn up wearing their Arsenal shirts.
If only we could get to them sooner. I guess that only on field success and increased media coverage can do this.
so i don't think so unless there was huuuuge dough spent getting us man city style squad
Unfortunately the club can only do so much in terms of pricing, marketing and improving the overall 'experience'. Many other factors like transport, weather, fan behaviour etc. are out of their hands.
I think they key is here is to generate a buzz with fan involvement nay ownership, then look at technology, modern marketing techniques from across the board, and innovate/implement to increment over a number of years.
The Club have made the maintenance man redundant this week.
It's great that the Trust are trying to think of new approaches (even if Target 20,000 isn't really that new) but I think you need to put more flash on the bone before coming out with this stuff, especially when you need some real buy in from senior levels at the Club first.
"The Charlton on here that live in certain areas will know, as has been mentioned on here before."
Otherwise, no chance.
;-)
By comparison the concourses in 2 of the 3 'premier' areas of The Valley (Upper West and East) are open to the elements (not pleasant in the winter to have nowhere to go to warm up a bit), whilst the Lower West and North are crowded and gloomy.
Realistically not much the club can do about this either.
it could happen, 35k isn’t too ridiculous
These are the ones to target. £50 to watch a whole season of live Championship football is peanuts.
Not sure how you get through to them. Maybe target parents, marketing it as a cheap and exciting way for them to bond with their sons or daughters! Like how Hornby marketed model trains years ago.
I am surprised at the cinicism of some on here who I had thought supported the idea of finding ways to hels p the fans to help the Trust to help the club.
It is very clear to me from survey analysis that attracting new fans simply is not happening at the rate it needs to.... there will be some precise numbers out soon but the simple fact is that c. 5% of the fanbase have been coming since we were relegated which is the same as the Selhurst Years!
I am a finance and data guy who has learnt a little about marketing from helping to launch the trust...we have gathered a number of ideas from members and need to work on this...Happy to get ideas from a message board too but this doesn't solve anything. As Razil suggests, we will be presenting to the club and, contrary to some on here, we are engaged at Board level so maybe next season will see something new?
Seriously Red, I really don't think you can forget performance on the pitch, good performances attract crowds, however improving the customer service and making the match day a positive experience will add to retention of fans, especially those transient fans who may attend only a few times a season or even only on "offer" days. There is a lot more that the club can do here.
Much more could be done to "milk" the database and follow up promotion days and targeting of free tickets, I get the impression that giving these to schools is more about boosting match day figures than encouraging new fans to attend. Of course ijn the short term we may well have to contend with West ham trying to sell their excess tickets for the stadium we have all contributed to for them and with the excesses they will have be prepared for some pretty strong loss leaders in a couple of years time for Premiership matches.
Just looked it up and the number is 8% since 2007
Total numbers:
50.5% pre-date leaving the Valley;
7.5% Selhurst;
19% back at the Valley;
15% Premier League;
8% since relegation from the Premier League.
So its 3% a year when marketing / promotion was full on in the 90s...but the numbers who first came to the Valley in the Premier League AND still come are less than 2% per season.
As for the catchment area we gathered the first two letters of the post code which gives a pretty good idea of where people live now...not the same as when fans started going but still a picture.