Very random though but what If every football club in the FL was like Queens Park in Scotland (ie the squad played for free) how much money would Charlton make each season? Presumably tons....
Very random though but what If every football club in the FL was like Queens Park in Scotland (ie the squad played for free) how much money would Charlton make each season? Presumably tons....
Queen's Park are famous as an amateur club, a modern day curiosity .. but 'amateurism' is why they're at the near bottom rung of even the dire mess which is Scots football and have been for years. If CAFC followed suit we'd struggle in division six of the Greater Kent Combination (if such a competition exists)
Decent stadium and training ground, owned by club. 'Safe' image, a family club, that's fairly popular with neutrals
Plus We already play in red, so no need for a Cardiff style rebrand :-)
And we are also in the red so that will be attractive to the financially dyslexic investor who does not like the inconvenience and public attention of setting fire to his money in the street.
No we are an unheard of club in a part of London the rest of the world does not know exists. To add to that we have big neigbours just north of us who get lots of publicity and are moving into an iconic stadium. Then any one interested in the club will have to find £40+ millions to pay of the money owed before they pay the asking price of the current owners. These are probably why potential buyers have backed off.
still probably have more growth potential than other small town champs clubs, but agree asking price might be issue, some have much much more debt than we do tho
So the general consensus is, our debt is the biggest stumbling factor to someone coming in.
How much money do you think it would cost to get Charlton mid table in the Prem within 3 years?
The cost would need to include buying the club and paying off the debt, and building a competitive squad.
Easily 150 million, some of which would be covered by tv deals and sponsorship but that is still a huge amount of money, plus the continuous high and rising costs of overpaid midtable prem players
I think we're a less attractive investment in the championship than League One.
We were told we couldn't survive in league one. Could survive in the Championship. Richard Murray was it ?
Yes I believe so. We did 3 seasons in League one and are still here. A sleeping giant would be the best investment, throw a load of money at them and get them up the league for the extra tv revenue and sell on, like the two Davids did at Birmingham.
Well to buythe club you have to make a guess on what the current shareholders want for a return. To clear the old accumalated as of this season then £40 million, too bring in new players and cover the increased salary structure at £20 million, might just get the team promoted. In the premeirship then with new players and higher costs in the first season at least £60 million, 2nd season then £70 million with new players and increased costs. Now in those two seasons in the premeirship income should be at least £140 million. So a new owner, minimum must be willing to put up £50 million plus what ever the shareholders want over 3 seasons to get promoted and stay there.
Few clubs in the UK make money - pretty much the only way is to buy a team in the lower leagues, invest in them and then cash in when they get to the Premiership.
From what I can see most super-rich investors are not buying premiership clubs as business ventures but as ego trips.
As an investment Charlton are a good catch - the ground does not need much money being spent on it, we could easily attract another 10K supporters in the Premiership and the youth/reserve team is not only funding itself but will supply one or two players for the First team squad every year or so. I've no idea whether the £30m that TJ and Slater are apparently touting the club around for is true - but given that soon relegated Premiership clubs will be getting £60m in parachute paymens that would to protect some of the downside of buying the club.
I struggle to see how promotion to the Premier League can ever enable an investor to get their money out personally.
Firstly the cost of getting there is getting closer and closer to the total TV revenue for the one season that a club is guaranteed to be there. Without investing some of that money the club will almost certainly come straight back down again - and may well do so anyway.
To establish a club in the Premier League would cost so much money that it would be unthinkable that a new owner would buy it for the cost of getting there plus a mark up.
TJ is, allegedly, discovering that buying a club for a pound and loading it up with debt to get promoted doesn't make it worth £35m more inside thirty months.
I, honestly, can't see anyway anyone can make any money owning a football club. The sheer cost of financing the players wages seems to prevent any club from doing anything other than losing money. Sure, this is possible with a massive club with the history of success and almost unlimited demand for tickets for games, but if you wanted to buy, say, Arsenal it would probably set you back a billion pounds. It would take a long time to earn that back from trading profits, and let's remember that they have not won a trophy for something like eight years.
Buying Charlton (even for £1) with £40m of debts and a squad that is probably not good enough to get promoted to the Premier League means that with a £10m transfer budget and another £10m loss next season you would (if successful enough to win promotion - no mean feat) benefit to the tune of a £70m TV windfall with £60m of debt, and another c.£10m+ trading loss.
If anyone was stupid enough to pay £35m to buy the club in those circumstances they would, almost certainly, lose a fortune.
I suspect that the cash injections that have been made since the last takeover are directors loans and are repayable in the event of a change of ownership which suggests that the, actual, cost of buying the club for £35m is closer to £50m. Very few people that can afford that are stupid enough to ever consider doing it, in my view.
Your view is somewhat condescending and you are presenting some opinions as facts!
I will be concise and state very simply: 1) Clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal, Swansea, Blackpool Burnley and Watford have made money out of the Premier League and that was before the massive increase in TV money next season 2) No one is loading CAFC with debt to get it promoted - the board are running very conservative budgets and player acquisition strategies with annual losses of c.£7M a year 3) Fulham and QPR spent a fortune to get up and stay up but Swansea did not and neither did CAFC in the two promotions 1998 and 2000 4) You can make money in two ways with a football club - running it properly as per CAFC pre Dowie and selling it on in a better state than you found it 5) Many promoted clubs spend £15M in losses getting into the Premier League including promotion bonuses - contrary to assertion above, this is nothing compared to the TV deal... QPR established a record loss of £23M when promoted soon to be eclipsed by Leicester who lost £28M and were nowhere near promotion! The cost for each year is more like 1 sixth of the gains BEFORE investing in the squad which makes sense if you can ensure your club gets promoted every five years!
To me the only stupidity in business strategy would be if the board failed to deliver the third year of their 3 year plan - for they have delivered years 1 & 2 - up until the final whistle the other night we actually had an outside chance of skipping a year and making the play offs. For £15M of losses we have moved from mid table 3rd division to mid table 2nd division
In short CAFC has the potential to be worth a lot of money IF resources can be found to push on. With the right team on and off the pitch, the Valley will be sold out again before we know it - there are clubs in the Championship with far greater debts than CAFC.
The place where I differ from someone who used to own CAFC is whether the club can be attractive as a yo-yo club?! I hope to write more on this in the next edition of Trust News...
In answer to the OP I suggest that the higher we finish up the championship each year, the more likely we are to attract additional finance (from existing or new owners) to make the big push for promotion. Personally I hope we go for it next season. For obvious reasons but also because if we don't, then there is a risk it will get harder and that our better players may want to move on.
2) No one is loading CAFC with debt to get it promoted - the board are running very conservative budgets and player acquisition strategies with annual losses of c.£7M a year
so that £7m a year isn't a debt more of a charitable donation i'll eat my chocolate socks if that isn't some form of debt owed to someone by Charlton
If I was a super rich investor I would buy the exclusive marketing rights to the Championship rather than just buy one club.
Why would any sane investor burn all their money in the ridiculous Russian roulette to reach the EPL at any cost. For every Cardiff there is a Wolves or Blackburn.
Rather than keep worshiping at the feet of the super rich EPL why not compete directly and exploit its key weaknesses:
1. Its increasingly boring and predictable. 2. The smaller clubs will never win it and only look to survive. 3. More EPL clubs are non-glamorous/poorly supported but have big investors. 4. The same players play for the yo-yo clubs and just change teams at the end of the season
What the world's TV audience is looking for is big passionate heritage clubs fighting fiercely contested battles that really mean something in a highly unpredictable league cheered on by bonkers fans (at a fraction of the TV coverage fee).
There has to be more international marketing appeal from say, Wolves v Birmingham , Leeds v Millwall, Bolton v Blackburn, Charlton v Palace or Derby County v Notts Forest etc etc than say Wigan v Swansea or QPR v Reading for example. (no disrespect to them intended)
There are loads of ex-pats in Asia who are gagging to see their home teams and most are in the age/income bracket that advertisers aim for but can't access CCC .
Aren't Coca-Cola supposed to know a thing or two about international marketing?
If I was a super rich investor I would buy the exclusive marketing rights to the Championship rather than just buy one club.
Why would any sane investor burn all their money in the ridiculous Russian roulette to reach the EPL at any cost. For every Cardiff there is a Wolves or Blackburn.
Rather than keep worshiping at the feet of the super rich EPL why not compete directly and exploit its key weaknesses:
1. Its increasingly boring and predictable. 2. The smaller clubs will never win it and only look to survive. 3. More EPL clubs are non-glamorous/poorly supported but have big investors. 4. The same players play for the yo-yo clubs and just change teams at the end of the season
What the world's TV audience is looking for is big passionate heritage clubs fighting fiercely contested battles that really mean something in a highly unpredictable league cheered on by bonkers fans (at a fraction of the TV coverage fee).
There has to be more international marketing appeal from say, Wolves v Birmingham , Leeds v Millwall, Bolton v Blackburn, Charlton v Palace or Derby County v Notts Forest etc etc than say Wigan v Swansea or QPR v Reading for example. (no disrespect to them intended)
There are loads of ex-pats in Asia who are gagging to see their home teams and most are in the age/income bracket that advertisers aim for but can't access CCC .
Aren't Coca-Cola supposed to know a thing or two about international marketing?
There are very few people in Asia that could name you a club outside the top few in the Barclays Premier League. You are underestimating the appeal of Liverpool and Man Utd in particular. Expats make up a tiny proportion of people that watch games here. If TV rights were owned by the teams and not the BPL then the Asian networks would only buy coverage from the top teams and the others would not get a look-in.
Malaysia and Thailand both have coverage of the NPower Championship but the audience is tiny. In Thailand it's on GMMZ, a box many people have as it's where the Euros were shown last year, but try to find a bar with a Championship game; it's like looking for a pork sausage at a barmitzvah. After the King Power takeover Leicester games were shown on terrestrial TV last season but that didn't last long. And perhaps it's no surprise that Malaysian-owned Cardiff City have had more international airtime than any other Championship club this season. I would guess the fee paid for a whole season is not much more than some Premier League players earn in a month (maybe even a week).
Seriously, there is no interest in the Championship here and that will not change unless Liverpool or Man Utd ever get relegated.
And in case you haven't noticed, Coca Cola gave up sponsoring the Championship some time ago. NPower is hardly an international brand!
If I was a super rich investor I would buy the exclusive marketing rights to the Championship rather than just buy one club.
Why would any sane investor burn all their money in the ridiculous Russian roulette to reach the EPL at any cost. For every Cardiff there is a Wolves or Blackburn.
Rather than keep worshiping at the feet of the super rich EPL why not compete directly and exploit its key weaknesses:
1. Its increasingly boring and predictable. 2. The smaller clubs will never win it and only look to survive. 3. More EPL clubs are non-glamorous/poorly supported but have big investors. 4. The same players play for the yo-yo clubs and just change teams at the end of the season
What the world's TV audience is looking for is big passionate heritage clubs fighting fiercely contested battles that really mean something in a highly unpredictable league cheered on by bonkers fans (at a fraction of the TV coverage fee).
There has to be more international marketing appeal from say, Wolves v Birmingham , Leeds v Millwall, Bolton v Blackburn, Charlton v Palace or Derby County v Notts Forest etc etc than say Wigan v Swansea or QPR v Reading for example. (no disrespect to them intended)
There are loads of ex-pats in Asia who are gagging to see their home teams and most are in the age/income bracket that advertisers aim for but can't access CCC .
Aren't Coca-Cola supposed to know a thing or two about international marketing?
There are very few people in Asia that could name you a club outside the top few in the Barclays Premier League. You are underestimating the appeal of Liverpool and Man Utd in particular. Expats make up a tiny proportion of people that watch games here. If TV rights were owned by the teams and not the BPL then the Asian networks would only buy coverage from the top teams and the others would not get a look-in.
Malaysia and Thailand both have coverage of the NPower Championship but the audience is tiny. In Thailand it's on GMMZ, a box many people have as it's where the Euros were shown last year, but try to find a bar with a Championship game; it's like looking for a pork sausage at a barmitzvah. After the King Power takeover Leicester games were shown on terrestrial TV last season but that didn't last long. And perhaps it's no surprise that Malaysian-owned Cardiff City have had more international airtime than any other Championship club this season. I would guess the fee paid for a whole season is not much more than some Premier League players earn in a month (maybe even a week).
Seriously, there is no interest in the Championship here and that will not change unless Liverpool or Man Utd ever get relegated.
And in case you haven't noticed, Coca Cola gave up sponsoring the Championship some time ago. NPower is hardly an international brand!
Take your point Bangkok and apologies for the Coca-Cola gaff. I am exiled in Asia too for most of the season and know the obsession in Hong Kong and China with Man Utd and Liverpool and to a lesser extent Chelsea and Arsenal.
Any idea why you never see Man City or Spurs replica shirts in SE Asia? (do you see the Everton shirts in Thailand because of the Chang sponsorship?)
I may be the only footy fan on the planet who finds the EPL sterile and predictable and largely a financial contest rather than a sporting one but if I am not, then the EPL might be vulnerable to some cut price competition with a bit of passion and authenticity.
The Championship just seems a bit backward on the marketing front. What about recruiting some Asian players, twinning with Asian clubs, fantasy leagues or playing some fixtures over here?
More real fans go to many of the Champ. fixtures (outside the top four clubs) than the EPL ones so there has to be something to work on.
Comments
It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Then any one interested in the club will have to find £40+ millions to pay of the money owed before they pay the asking price of the current owners.
These are probably why potential buyers have backed off.
How much money do you think it would cost to get Charlton mid table in the Prem within 3 years?
The cost would need to include buying the club and paying off the debt, and building a competitive squad.
In the premeirship then with new players and higher costs in the first season at least £60 million, 2nd season then £70 million with new players and increased costs.
Now in those two seasons in the premeirship income should be at least £140 million. So a new owner, minimum must be willing to put up £50 million plus what ever the shareholders want over 3 seasons to get promoted and stay there.
From what I can see most super-rich investors are not buying premiership clubs as business ventures but as ego trips.
As an investment Charlton are a good catch - the ground does not need much money being spent on it, we could easily attract another 10K supporters in the Premiership and the youth/reserve team is not only funding itself but will supply one or two players for the First team squad every year or so. I've no idea whether the £30m that TJ and Slater are apparently touting the club around for is true - but given that soon relegated Premiership clubs will be getting £60m in parachute paymens that would to protect some of the downside of buying the club.
I will be concise and state very simply:
1) Clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal, Swansea, Blackpool Burnley and Watford have made money out of the Premier League and that was before the massive increase in TV money next season
2) No one is loading CAFC with debt to get it promoted - the board are running very conservative budgets and player acquisition strategies with annual losses of c.£7M a year
3) Fulham and QPR spent a fortune to get up and stay up but Swansea did not and neither did CAFC in the two promotions 1998 and 2000
4) You can make money in two ways with a football club - running it properly as per CAFC pre Dowie and selling it on in a better state than you found it
5) Many promoted clubs spend £15M in losses getting into the Premier League including promotion bonuses - contrary to assertion above, this is nothing compared to the TV deal... QPR established a record loss of £23M when promoted soon to be eclipsed by Leicester who lost £28M and were nowhere near promotion! The cost for each year is more like 1 sixth of the gains BEFORE investing in the squad which makes sense if you can ensure your club gets promoted every five years!
To me the only stupidity in business strategy would be if the board failed to deliver the third year of their 3 year plan - for they have delivered years 1 & 2 - up until the final whistle the other night we actually had an outside chance of skipping a year and making the play offs. For £15M of losses we have moved from mid table 3rd division to mid table 2nd division
In short CAFC has the potential to be worth a lot of money IF resources can be found to push on. With the right team on and off the pitch, the Valley will be sold out again before we know it - there are clubs in the Championship with far greater debts than CAFC.
The place where I differ from someone who used to own CAFC is whether the club can be attractive as a yo-yo club?! I hope to write more on this in the next edition of Trust News...
In answer to the OP I suggest that the higher we finish up the championship each year, the more likely we are to attract additional finance (from existing or new owners) to make the big push for promotion. Personally I hope we go for it next season. For obvious reasons but also because if we don't, then there is a risk it will get harder and that our better players may want to move on.
How do you make a small fortune from investing in a football club?
Start with a large won. Sad but true.
i'll eat my chocolate socks if that isn't some form of debt owed to someone by Charlton
If I was a super rich investor I would buy the exclusive marketing rights to the Championship rather than just buy one club.
Why would any sane investor burn all their money in the ridiculous Russian roulette to reach the EPL at any cost. For every Cardiff there is a Wolves or Blackburn.
Rather than keep worshiping at the feet of the super rich EPL why not compete directly and exploit its key weaknesses:
1. Its increasingly boring and predictable.
2. The smaller clubs will never win it and only look to survive.
3. More EPL clubs are non-glamorous/poorly supported but have big investors.
4. The same players play for the yo-yo clubs and just change teams at the end of the season
What the world's TV audience is looking for is big passionate heritage clubs fighting fiercely contested battles that really mean something in a highly unpredictable league cheered on by bonkers fans (at a fraction of the TV coverage fee).
There has to be more international marketing appeal from say, Wolves v Birmingham , Leeds v Millwall, Bolton v Blackburn, Charlton v Palace or Derby County v Notts Forest etc etc than say Wigan v Swansea or QPR v Reading for example. (no disrespect to them intended)
There are loads of ex-pats in Asia who are gagging to see their home teams and most are in the age/income bracket that advertisers aim for but can't access CCC .
Aren't Coca-Cola supposed to know a thing or two about international marketing?
Malaysia and Thailand both have coverage of the NPower Championship but the audience is tiny. In Thailand it's on GMMZ, a box many people have as it's where the Euros were shown last year, but try to find a bar with a Championship game; it's like looking for a pork sausage at a barmitzvah. After the King Power takeover Leicester games were shown on terrestrial TV last season but that didn't last long. And perhaps it's no surprise that Malaysian-owned Cardiff City have had more international airtime than any other Championship club this season. I would guess the fee paid for a whole season is not much more than some Premier League players earn in a month (maybe even a week).
Seriously, there is no interest in the Championship here and that will not change unless Liverpool or Man Utd ever get relegated.
And in case you haven't noticed, Coca Cola gave up sponsoring the Championship some time ago. NPower is hardly an international brand!
but i like a conspiracy !
Any idea why you never see Man City or Spurs replica shirts in SE Asia? (do you see the Everton shirts in Thailand because of the Chang sponsorship?)
I may be the only footy fan on the planet who finds the EPL sterile and predictable and largely a financial contest rather than a sporting one but if I am not, then the EPL might be vulnerable to some cut price competition with a bit of passion and authenticity.
The Championship just seems a bit backward on the marketing front. What about recruiting some Asian players, twinning with Asian clubs, fantasy leagues or playing some fixtures over here?
More real fans go to many of the Champ. fixtures (outside the top four clubs) than the EPL ones so there has to be something to work on.