Would have liked to have seen Haynes come on or perhaps pack the midfield with a 4-5-1 after we scored...A two goal cushion would be good... wasn't it three goals which was just enough against Cardiff?
Next season this squad will have had two years together and will have played a whole season together in this league. With the right additions those two goal leads will come and we will win more often than not. This is a very tight league and no team coming up from League 1 will cause problems next year so we can build. We could have gone for it this time round but isn't that what the board did in 2008 with Pardew? I prefer that we build year by year to climb the leagues gradually - I trust that our best players can be patient too?
Got an idea! i think it may have been said in other threads already but now about instead of getting rid of powell tj sacks dyer( even though he is a nice guy) and bring hart up to assistant! Coz im thinking the panic isnt just on the pitch at the end of games! If powell is asking dyer and matthew for advice they are all in same boat! Hart has been around ages in football( knows more) carming things maye! Would it work!!?/
At St Andrews we went one up in the 82nd minute,in the 88th minute CP substituted Jackson with Dervite, Brum equalised in the 93rd minute. At the Valley we went one up in the 88th minute, in the 89th minute CP substituted Wagstaff with Dervite, Brum equalised in the 93rd minute.
Haven't read anything. Firstly the pitch is a fucking disgrace, which apparently is no problem to us as we only boot if forward (you know who you are) and secondly it was shameful how we set ourselves up after the goal. As if we haven't seen what camping in our six yard box brings, we decided to repeat the experiment and yet still leave one of their best players unmarked on the penalty spot. I cannot for the life of me work out why we didn't play out the last 5 mins as we had the previous 89, but clearly we believe the way to defend a lead is to allow all the opposition players to position themselves as they like in our penalty box. Special mention to BWP for running the ball pathetically out of play in front of me when he could have a) set up an attack or b) run it into the corner. If our best player on the day Wagstaff had been on, he would made something of the ball at his feet rather than some half arse attempt at running the clock down. Now we are in a proper relegation battle. Normally this would not be a huge deal, but given the current finances of the club it is massive and the down side unthinkable.
A great shame because on a terrible pitch we were much the better team. We again should have taken our chances though.
After the game I huffed off, critical of Powell's substitute decisions, my friend disagreed. Now I have calmed down, I'm thinking maybe Powell was just unlucky but still believe they upset us, especially the decision to remove (for me, minus the finishing) MOM Waggy.
The cushion from the bottom 3 is now only 6 points or 2 wins which is ominous.
That said we dominated today but couldn't score and I was convinced that we would get mugged 1-0. At least that didn't happen and we got something out of the match.
As to the game we really didn't play badly! Fuller finally (at home) showed why Stoke fans rate him so highly but Butland was equal to the challenge. Yann scored, came close a couple of times and linked well with midfield making the 442 a 451 and vice versa if that makes any sort of sense! Waggy was his usual industrious self and was twice foiled by Butland. Jacko played some nice passes but didn't get forward as much as he has previously which was understandable in a 4-4-2. Stephens nearly set Birmingham up with a woeful pass backwards to a blue shirt but put a foot in and didn't disappear too much. The back 4 and Wilson were pretty sound too. Hamer had little to do but I felt his distribution was below his usual standards.
Off the pitch great to see MOG back at the ground and also Voice of The Valley which I've thoroughly enjoyed reading.
One thing I don't understand about today and a few of our other games is why all of the attacking players bunch Arround the far post so much . So many times today fuller ,solly or Wilson cut it to the front post for virtually a tap in but there was no one there ! Can't see why no one ghosts in or bulldozed through to the front post in surely the most obvious place the ball will go
Great performance today and a real shame about the missing out on a win again. Just a thought but wouldn't it be better at the end to make 2 separate subs only when the board has gone up for what might have been only 3 mins? Wastes time and is poor to watch but you do see it so often late in a match.
Great performance today and a real shame about the missing out on a win again. Just a thought but wouldn't it be better at the end to make 2 separate subs only when the board has gone up for what might have been only 3 mins? Wastes time and is poor to watch but you do see it so often late in a match.
I feel sorry for Taylor, Powell it seems saw him as the scapegoat for Wednesday regardless of previous results.
It's very harsh, as he played very well while Morrison has been below par for some time now.
The problem is though that Morrison plays better when with Taylor - so you'd have to drop Cort - it's strange. Probably not that simple in actual fact, maybe try Taylor and Cort.. but Morrow and Taylor do have a good partnership.
Has anyone figured out how many points we have ceded in the last few minutes of a game this season? Starting withe two points lost at Birmingham the first game to the ridiculous last game at home with B'ham, it's got to be Fifteen at least. Something is terribly wrong, Is it that they aren't fit enough to last the normal 95 mins that are fairly normal,are there too many subs in the last couple of mins ? I can see subbing forwards but to completely change the shape of a team that is
Good performance, unfortunate not to win. Thought subs were more logical than of late, Green for Wilson was right and CP wanted Dervite to help with Zigic for when he came on. BWP's pace was ok thinking, but should have kept Wagstaff on to keep team shape - when we get messy and confused, there's no-one on the pitch to sort it out and then we get into trouble, like today.
However if he had t done it some of you wouldve been ripping him a new arse hole this morning
Let me say one thing I don't give a shit who is upset but that pitch is a disgrace total disgrace and the groundstaff who had the hump with Hamer were wrong to do so no one is blaming them for the state of it but It is an embarrassment to be in the second teir of English football and have a Pitch on par with Eltham park Sth
For all those blaming Powell
Wilson
Yann
Fuller
Waggy
Stephens
All missed gilt edged chances that would e put the game to bed Powell sent the team out in a manor that totally dominated
And even under curbs teams panicked and defended deep and got punished
If you heard the post match interview on bbc London you would've heard the frustration in what happened and how it's in the players head not the managers
Late goals been conceded since the first game of the season,watched it again last night 3 players marking no one, is Chrissy too nice to be a manager, the players don't seem to be getting the message do they?
Played really well best team performence in ages. Positive sub early on which looked to have won us the game. All to be undone by bringing on to subs in stoppage time leaving the whole team looking like an organised mess.
At 0-0, I was happy for a well fought point on a terrible pitch, in which Birmingham were kept in the game with some good keeping from Butland and some solid defending.
At 1-0 at 89 mins to get to 1-1 seems like 2 points dropped. I was not happy at the end of the game.
The Danny Green substitution was spot on, well timed and replaced Wilson, who looked a bit off form. It gave some energy on the right. DG is not the best player in the world, but that substitution helped to propel us forward and lead to the goal from KMG. I was not expecting Charlton to score and it came as a total surprise.
At 1-0, Charlton couldn't stuff things up could they ?
Zigic did unsettle things, (why doesn't he play for Birmingham more often ?) and the team did not seem to know what to do with the player. Maybe they could have sent a player to mark him specifically ?
Those substitutions at the end were wrong and cost us the points and helped contribute to the players on the pitch losing the plot. KMG looked knackered and I thought he may have been taken off before the goal (glad he wasn't) but after the goal he should have. He could have claimed a hero's applause for the goal. BWP should have been instructed to play as the link between Fuller and the midfield in the 4411, slight adjustment. BWP can be quite good at that. KMG was too knackered to help out in midfield anymore. Fuller should have stayed on as he still had legs and had an excellent game.
The second sub for Wagstaff for Dervite was understandable why as CP wanted someone in front of the back four. but it did not work, as no one covered the left half slot. You then had Stephens, Jackson and Dervite clueless in the middle. No one seemed to know what they way supposed to be doing or who they were marking. The substitutions at the end sparked panic mode in the players. I also think that the players could have shown some leadership on the pitch.
Dervite for Jackson /Stephens maybe or Pritchard for Jackson-Stephens / KMG keeping the same formation but putting fresh legs on.
Surely, the substitutions should have been spaced out. Two substitutions on are a usually a sign that the game needs radical change, due to going a second goal down and something needs quickly changing. One substitution on first (to shore up the midfield), breaks up the game, acclaim to the player leaving the pitch, let the team settle. Then bring on the second sub two minutes from the end, breaks up the game, hero's acclaim to the next player. That would have been great for KMG, who scored the goal.
The lesson is not to be putting x2 subs on together in injury time as it unsettles the team and by the time gets used to the change, it is too late to change the game. 2 subs on only in exceptional circumstances, when you have gone 2-0 down with 25 mins to go (for example) and your team on the pitch understand the tactical change being made and it is given time to work.
Some leadership on the pitch would not go amiss either. The players hold responsibility for the loss of the points equally to the mistimed substitutions.
This is post match analysis, and is easy after the event. I have gone through it so that I can understand what went wrong, it helps me cope with the points lost, and I hope Chris Powell and the team are (or should be) doing something similar. This is so that the Chris Powell and the team can learn to close games out.
Mistakes are made, I accept that happens, but the important thing is to learn and improve. The substitutions at the end were wrong and mistimed (better than not making them at all). Better to try and make the substitutions, and perfect the strategy. At least one earlier Danny Green substitution was spot on. I Still support Chris Powell and the team 100%. I am not having a go, just trying to be constructive. I trust that CP / Dyer will perfect substitutions and the team will adapt on the pitch and close out games, like Charlton did last season.
Just posted subs comment above before reading Nicholas in the previous comment - who says what I wanted to say concisely in 2 sentences.
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I wasn't sure about the formation first off, but 442 worked well against an average Birmingham City side. Fuller was excellent and unsettled the Birmingham City centre backs. The crosses and free kicks were excellent. Stephens was good in midfield. Evina was very good at left back, we should be looking to keep him. Solly put in his usual quality performance. I am really pleased that Scott Wagstaff is maintaining the quality and energy of his performances. He definitely deserves to keep his place in the team. I have not seen anyone play the left midfield position better this year. He deserves credit. I hope he can keep that up.
The pitch is in a really sorry state. I now understand Ben Hamer's complaints. It should not be used as an excuse for not closing games out, but how is it possible to properly use routines practised in training on that pitch ? Unless they prepare a similarly muddy pitch at Sparrows Lane to replicate it. What is going on with it ? I know we have had weather but it is like we are sharing the ground with a rugby league team, who play on alternate Saturdays.
I would be pleased to see a couple of decent loans to help us maintain our position in the league and keep us away from the foot of the table. If BWP / Green are to go to Swindon, then we would need better replacements. They would need to be step up in quality and hopefully with a view to be permanent.
Weegie, not suggesting the players are thick, but their ability to understand the message Scp is trying to get across. When when players show the same mental fragility week after week you have to question why they fail to follow simple instructions Like mark oppo players in the last min of a match. This could be very costly with a run of difficult games coming up and other lower teams now doing better.
Powell didn't do much wrong substitutions wise. Dervite to add steel in defence and BWP to drive the ball forward. The team bottle it and camped in our penalty area. There is a complete lack of winning mentality with the exception of Kermorgant.
For 88 minutes we were mostly brilliant, with Kermorgant, Fuller, Wagstaff and Stephens all with a shout for MOTM. But it doesn't matter when you don't have the mentality to see it through. If the game had gone on five minutes longer we would have lost 2-1.
For once I think he got a sub wrong (I have no issues with the last 2 games). No issues with BWP for Fuller, the extra pace and fresh legs offered an out ball, but Devite for Wagstaff introduced 2 changes to a midfield that had bossed the game. We lost Jackson's work from the middle and Wagstaff's tireless energy. It also dropped us further back with less pace to join a break. Given how far on top we were it was a costly decision.
That said, I understand why he did it, given our inability to close out the previous games.
goes without saying this division is tougher ,but if only we could get back to the way we saw out games last season how far could we go because in the main we are playing decent football. first half at palace was real quality.
Comments
Next season this squad will have had two years together and will have played a whole season together in this league. With the right additions those two goal leads will come and we will win more often than not. This is a very tight league and no team coming up from League 1 will cause problems next year so we can build. We could have gone for it this time round but isn't that what the board did in 2008 with Pardew? I prefer that we build year by year to climb the leagues gradually - I trust that our best players can be patient too?
At the Valley we went one up in the 88th minute, in the 89th minute CP substituted Wagstaff with Dervite, Brum equalised in the 93rd minute.
?
and secondly it was shameful how we set ourselves up after the goal.
As if we haven't seen what camping in our six yard box brings, we decided to repeat the experiment and yet still leave one of their best players unmarked on the penalty spot. I cannot for the life of me work out why we didn't play out the last 5 mins as we had the previous 89, but clearly we believe the way to defend a lead is to allow all the opposition players to position themselves as they like in our penalty box.
Special mention to BWP for running the ball pathetically out of play in front of me when he could have a) set up an attack or b) run it into the corner. If our best player on the day Wagstaff had been on, he would made something of the ball at his feet rather than some half arse attempt at running the clock down.
Now we are in a proper relegation battle. Normally this would not be a huge deal, but given the current finances of the club it is massive and the down side unthinkable.
After the game I huffed off, critical of Powell's substitute decisions, my friend disagreed. Now I have calmed down, I'm thinking maybe Powell was just unlucky but still believe they upset us, especially the decision to remove (for me, minus the finishing) MOM Waggy.
The cushion from the bottom 3 is now only 6 points or 2 wins which is ominous.
That said we dominated today but couldn't score and I was convinced that we would get mugged 1-0. At least that didn't happen and we got something out of the match.
As to the game we really didn't play badly! Fuller finally (at home) showed why Stoke fans rate him so highly but Butland was equal to the challenge. Yann scored, came close a couple of times and linked well with midfield making the 442 a 451 and vice versa if that makes any sort of sense! Waggy was his usual industrious self and was twice foiled by Butland. Jacko played some nice passes but didn't get forward as much as he has previously which was understandable in a 4-4-2. Stephens nearly set Birmingham up with a woeful pass backwards to a blue shirt but put a foot in and didn't disappear too much. The back 4 and Wilson were pretty sound too. Hamer had little to do but I felt his distribution was below his usual standards.
Off the pitch great to see MOG back at the ground and also Voice of The Valley which I've thoroughly enjoyed reading.
4 wins and a draw asap please!
The problem is though that Morrison plays better when with Taylor - so you'd have to drop Cort - it's strange. Probably not that simple in actual fact, maybe try Taylor and Cort.. but Morrow and Taylor do have a good partnership.
Something is terribly wrong, Is it that they aren't fit enough to last the normal 95 mins that are fairly normal,are there too many subs in the last couple of mins ? I can see subbing forwards but to completely change the shape of a team that is
However if he had t done it some of you wouldve been ripping him a new arse hole this morning
Let me say one thing I don't give a shit who is upset but that pitch is a disgrace total disgrace and the groundstaff who had the hump with Hamer were wrong to do so no one is blaming them for the state of it but It is an embarrassment to be in the second teir of English football and have a Pitch on par with Eltham park Sth
For all those blaming Powell
Wilson
Yann
Fuller
Waggy
Stephens
All missed gilt edged chances that would e put the game to bed Powell sent the team out in a manor that totally dominated
And even under curbs teams panicked and defended deep and got punished
If you heard the post match interview on bbc London you would've heard the frustration in what happened and how it's in the players head not the managers
At 1-0 at 89 mins to get to 1-1 seems like 2 points dropped. I was not happy at the end of the game.
The Danny Green substitution was spot on, well timed and replaced Wilson, who looked a bit off form. It gave some energy on the right. DG is not the best player in the world, but that substitution helped to propel us forward and lead to the goal from KMG. I was not expecting Charlton to score and it came as a total surprise.
At 1-0, Charlton couldn't stuff things up could they ?
Zigic did unsettle things, (why doesn't he play for Birmingham more often ?) and the team did not seem to know what to do with the player. Maybe they could have sent a player to mark him specifically ?
Those substitutions at the end were wrong and cost us the points and helped contribute to the players on the pitch losing the plot. KMG looked knackered and I thought he may have been taken off before the goal (glad he wasn't) but after the goal he should have. He could have claimed a hero's applause for the goal. BWP should have been instructed to play as the link between Fuller and the midfield in the 4411, slight adjustment. BWP can be quite good at that. KMG was too knackered to help out in midfield anymore. Fuller should have stayed on as he still had legs and had an excellent game.
The second sub for Wagstaff for Dervite was understandable why as CP wanted someone in front of the back four. but it did not work, as no one covered the left half slot. You then had Stephens, Jackson and Dervite clueless in the middle. No one seemed to know what they way supposed to be doing or who they were marking. The substitutions at the end sparked panic mode in the players. I also think that the players could have shown some leadership on the pitch.
Dervite for Jackson /Stephens maybe or Pritchard for Jackson-Stephens / KMG keeping the same formation but putting fresh legs on.
Surely, the substitutions should have been spaced out. Two substitutions on are a usually a sign that the game needs radical change, due to going a second goal down and something needs quickly changing. One substitution on first (to shore up the midfield), breaks up the game, acclaim to the player leaving the pitch, let the team settle. Then bring on the second sub two minutes from the end, breaks up the game, hero's acclaim to the next player. That would have been great for KMG, who scored the goal.
The lesson is not to be putting x2 subs on together in injury time as it unsettles the team and by the time gets used to the change, it is too late to change the game. 2 subs on only in exceptional circumstances, when you have gone 2-0 down with 25 mins to go (for example) and your team on the pitch understand the tactical change being made and it is given time to work.
Some leadership on the pitch would not go amiss either. The players hold responsibility for the loss of the points equally to the mistimed substitutions.
This is post match analysis, and is easy after the event. I have gone through it so that I can understand what went wrong, it helps me cope with the points lost, and I hope Chris Powell and the team are (or should be) doing something similar. This is so that the Chris Powell and the team can learn to close games out.
Mistakes are made, I accept that happens, but the important thing is to learn and improve. The substitutions at the end were wrong and mistimed (better than not making them at all). Better to try and make the substitutions, and perfect the strategy. At least one earlier Danny Green substitution was spot on. I Still support Chris Powell and the team 100%. I am not having a go, just trying to be constructive. I trust that CP / Dyer will perfect substitutions and the team will adapt on the pitch and close out games, like Charlton did last season.
Analyse, learn from the mistakes and move on.
Just posted subs comment above before reading Nicholas in the previous comment - who says what I wanted to say concisely in 2 sentences.
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I wasn't sure about the formation first off, but 442 worked well against an average Birmingham City side. Fuller was excellent and unsettled the Birmingham City centre backs. The crosses and free kicks were excellent. Stephens was good in midfield. Evina was very good at left back, we should be looking to keep him. Solly put in his usual quality performance. I am really pleased that Scott Wagstaff is maintaining the quality and energy of his performances. He definitely deserves to keep his place in the team. I have not seen anyone play the left midfield position better this year. He deserves credit. I hope he can keep that up.
The pitch is in a really sorry state. I now understand Ben Hamer's complaints. It should not be used as an excuse for not closing games out, but how is it possible to properly use routines practised in training on that pitch ? Unless they prepare a similarly muddy pitch at Sparrows Lane to replicate it. What is going on with it ? I know we have had weather but it is like we are sharing the ground with a rugby league team, who play on alternate Saturdays.
I would be pleased to see a couple of decent loans to help us maintain our position in the league and keep us away from the foot of the table. If BWP / Green are to go to Swindon, then we would need better replacements. They would need to be step up in quality and hopefully with a view to be permanent.
That said, I understand why he did it, given our inability to close out the previous games.
But for their keeper we would have been 3 or 4 up going into the last 2 minutes. You can't just magic more goals, there is another team out there.