I can accept the penalty and just about accept a 2nd yellow for Morro, but by that standard I totally fail to understand how their No 6 who committed enough foul play for 3 sending offs remained on the pitch, similarly the full back who rugby tackled Pritchard, the charm merchant who took out Solly on the touch line, and wonderboy for pulling Pritchard's shirt ten yards in front of the ref to stop him running through. When a ref is so inconsistent the FA really should be asking some hard questions.
Spot on SM. Refereeing is so inconsistent and is threatening to spoil the game. We've been victim of two or three dreadful ones this season, Sheff Weds a perfect example. We are due 'the rub of the green' soon surely ?
Totally agree.
Think Dave Jones was saying a while back that his team were falling foul of loads of decisions ....but don't expect he was complaining yesterday !
He was moaning about the first booking not being one.
In the end a draw was a fair result but of course if BP had sunk his chance we would have gone on and won the game. The ref was absolute crap and maybe CP shouldf have considered taking Morro off as he was a red card waiting to happen I am sorry to say. Hamer and Cort were immense in defence and Haynes looked deadly until he pulled up but at least he gave us one of the best goals I have seen at The Valley for a long time. Hopefully this stops the slide but we have some toughies to come ands the bad luck with injuries continues.
good game. Derby had the better of the first half. Morrison`s first booking wasnt a foul. Great goal but do sad that the lad is made of glass. First 20 mins of the 2nd half was as good as i have seen us play this season. If Pritchard had stuck that chance away we would have gone onto win im sure. MOtM Hammer. I like a good few others on here said CO should have taken Morro off at half time that shitref was always going to send him off.
I followed the game on the match thread about 2 hours after it finished. Very disappointed with only 1 point. The first 20 minutes sounded a bit dodgy but after the Haynes goal we sounded in control. The sending off did us though and I think CP should be blamed for that. He is the manager and should be able to read the emotions of the referee, his players and the general tempo of the game. I think there was a bloody good chance that Morro was going to see a second yellow and Chris should have preempted that. Many lifers on the match thread said that at HT. There was Dervite on the bench and Chris should have the confidence to use his subs. 2 points dropped after we had got ourselves in a good position in my opinion.
you weren't there so you won't have appreciated how good Derby were today. We were under the cosh from 55-65 mins and we needed our best defenders out there.
As Chris said, the turning point was actually Pritch missing an open goal, unfortunately.
Anyway, we will soon hopefully get a clear view of the penalty, and as I have said to the other armchair managers, if that turns out not to be a pen, then you owe Chris an apology
A reasonable response until the armchair managers comment and the rest of the last paragraph. Some of your comments are arrogant and condescending. I'm not quite sure who you think you are but you appear to have a very high handed attitude to all things Charlton. I would get off that high horse if I were you before you fall off. :-)
This. Prague, like all of us, is entitled to his opinion but when he is watching live 30-40 matches a season less than some, to come across all holier than thou is arrogance at its worse.
Also why can't we criticise Powell, formations etc? It is a forum. Surprise, surprise Haynes looked better up front then on the left. Those of us who saw him perform at Bristol and Burnley could tell you that but Powell missed it. Hulse is better than Yann, Pritchard should never have been dropped. Not hind sight off-it, just things people like myself who know and go to football have been saying.
Well, I am very careful to stay out of the on-field debates here, unless I have been to the game being discussed or seen the whole thing live on TV. If you really think that because you go to the games you see things that Chris Powell has "missed", well, I think that is high handed ness and arrogance, turbocharged. but as you say, it's a forum, you go ahead. And if I think you are making unwarranted criticisms of a professional with a fantastic record of serving our club, I'm going to say so.
Been going to the Valley since 67, but I'm getting so sick of stupid referees ruining games that I am falling out of love with the game. In recent years I've seen us reduced to nine against Swindon, seen Hamer sent off in the second minute at Orient, Morrow yesterday, the number of games spoilt is getting ridiculous. Every mistimed tackle is now a yellow. I get to see maybe four games per year and already two have been ruined by officials. I pay my money, I want to see 11 v 11 and that includes the opposition. If someone goes "over the top" with intent, then fair enough, but minor offences like Morro's should not result in a sending off.
Been going to the Valley since 67, but I'm getting so sick of stupid referees ruining games that I am falling out of love with the game. In recent years I've seen us reduced to nine against Swindon, seen Hamer sent off in the second minute at Orient, Morrow yesterday, the number of games spoilt is getting ridiculous. Every mistimed tackle is now a yellow. I get to see maybe four games per year and already two have been ruined by officials. I pay my money, I want to see 11 v 11 and that includes the opposition. If someone goes "over the top" with intent, then fair enough, but minor offences like Morro's should not result in a sending off.
In the same boat, ( and the same games) and 100% agree with you. Personally I thought his first yellow was barely a foul, although NSS doesn't agree
The ref should be treated as one does the vagaries of the conditions, a variable which could turn out chite! As long as the referee isn't deliberately biased you have to put up with it, take it into account as best you can. The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game. If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
The ref should be treated as one does the vagaries of the conditions, a variable which could turn out chite! As long as the referee isn't deliberately biased you have to put up with it, take it into account as best you can. The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game. If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
good game. Derby had the better of the first half. Morrison`s first booking wasnt a foul. Great goal but do sad that the lad is made of glass. First 20 mins of the 2nd half was as good as i have seen us play this season. If Pritchard had stuck that chance away we would have gone onto win im sure. MOtM Hammer. I like a good few others on here said CO should have taken Morro off at half time that shitref was always going to send him off.
Sums it all up for me. One of the most enjoyable games if the season. Good standard from both teams and plenty of drama. CP boobed by leaving Morro on but I can understand why he did. He won't do it again. Thought Stephens was better than most others seem to think. Special mention for BWP.
Been going to the Valley since 67, but I'm getting so sick of stupid referees ruining games that I am falling out of love with the game. In recent years I've seen us reduced to nine against Swindon, seen Hamer sent off in the second minute at Orient, Morrow yesterday, the number of games spoilt is getting ridiculous. Every mistimed tackle is now a yellow. I get to see maybe four games per year and already two have been ruined by officials. I pay my money, I want to see 11 v 11 and that includes the opposition. If someone goes "over the top" with intent, then fair enough, but minor offences like Morro's should not result in a sending off.
In the same boat, ( and the same games) and 100% agree with you. Personally I thought his first yellow was barely a foul, although NSS doesn't agree
Was not at the Orient game but was at Swindon when Sodje and Burton were both sent off justifiably, can't quite recall Sodjes but I think it was one of his spectacular lunges, whereas Burton got booked for dissent and then obviously, deliberately handled the ball. Yesterday the referee sent off Morrison and the debate on here testifies that it could well be totally justified ( although others feel it was not) I was at the game and fully understand why the referee sent off Morrison. I wasn't at Orient but didn't Hamer deliberately handle outside the area. Isn't it about time players and managers took responsibility, rather than blaming referees. Yes he was a pratt yesterday but its not juts referees that are pratts.
Trevor Kettle is in the middle on Tuesday. I had a great chat with a football league lino yesterday and have a great insight into match officials in the football league. He also said it was probably the most thankless task he'd ever seen.
Kap as far as I am concerned Hamers sending off at Orient was wrong. He should not have come out of his box, but all he did was jump up and the ball hit him on the upper chest below the shoulder. And that's based on the video although I was there on the day. But that is one of the more difficult calls for a ref I agree. What I didn't like at the time was the slagging of Hamer, just as I don't like the slagging of CP over the Morro stuff
Kap as far as I am concerned Hamers sending off at Orient was wrong. He should not have come out of his box, but all he did was jump up and the ball hit him on the upper chest below the shoulder. And that's based on the video although I was there on the day. But that is one of the more difficult calls for a ref I agree. What I didn't like at the time was the slagging of Hamer, just as I don't like the slagging of CP over the Morro stuff
I' m sorry. I don' t think people are slagging CP. Rather, people are expressing an opinion that, in their opinion, Chris got that one wrong. There is a big difference between slagging off and expressing an opinion and I am surprised you don' t get that.
The ref should be treated as one does the vagaries of the conditions, a variable which could turn out chite! As long as the referee isn't deliberately biased you have to put up with it, take it into account as best you can. The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game. If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
Exactly, and this is something that I wish the people in charge would sort out. The Respect campaign that was supposed to support referees seems to have died a death and people like, yes, Alex Ferguson can get away with murder. Sure, lots of referees don't help themselves but we need them. It's why I have to respectfully disagree with Prague that they should have to go on TV and justify their decisions. They'll get things wrong, yes, just like BP did and Morrison did.
I don't think people you should overeact to criticism of Powell over Saturday. I wouldn't want anybody else in charge, but this is a forum for opinions and it is perfectly reasonable for people to comment on what they think was an error on his part.
He has made his position clear on the matter - he had used a sub and didn't want to use two and remove later options. I think we should respect that, but nothing wrong with disagreeing with it as I do.
The problem for me is that it isn't just about trusting the player. it was clear that he was mistiming his tackles from his first half performance. I don't think he was trying to do this, but it wasn't his best game.
The lecture the ref gave him just before half time suggested he was walking a tightrope and the ref being clearly poor - you just knew he would take the slightest opportunity to send him off. The challenge for the penalty was mis-timed - we can debate whether it was or wasn't a pen but the ref was wrong to send Morro off -but it shouldn't have been a surprise.
He should have been taken off - not because he was on a booking, but because of the lecture. That is a clear warning that needs to be heeded. I suspect Sir Chris will act differently in similar future circumstances.
The ref should be treated as one does the vagaries of the conditions, a variable which could turn out chite! As long as the referee isn't deliberately biased you have to put up with it, take it into account as best you can. The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game. If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
Exactly, and this is something that I wish the people in charge would sort out. The Respect campaign that was supposed to support referees seems to have died a death and people like, yes, Alex Ferguson can get away with murder. Sure, lots of referees don't help themselves but we need them. It's why I have to respectfully disagree with Prague that they should have to go on TV and justify their decisions. They'll get things wrong, yes, just like BP did and Morrison did.
Correct, that's the human element of football but in 2012 (nearly 2013) surely technology can help officials!
The ref should be treated as one does the vagaries of the conditions, a variable which could turn out chite! As long as the referee isn't deliberately biased you have to put up with it, take it into account as best you can. The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game. If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
Exactly, and this is something that I wish the people in charge would sort out. The Respect campaign that was supposed to support referees seems to have died a death and people like, yes, Alex Ferguson can get away with murder. Sure, lots of referees don't help themselves but we need them. It's why I have to respectfully disagree with Prague that they should have to go on TV and justify their decisions. They'll get things wrong, yes, just like BP did and Morrison did.
I do agree that we must accept that refs get things wrong. especially seeing things in split seconds. But I actually think they might get more respect if we heard more from them. I'm imagining that the ref is invited to give a brief comment on each controversial decision. No comeback afterwards from the interviewer. just the ref saying exactly why for example he gave Morro those two cards, and for example, stating that he gave Morro a final warning. Several people assume he did but they did not hear the conversation. If the ref would come on and say "I told him before half time that if he commits another tackle I deem dangerous, that's a second yellow" then I might be more inclined to say CP made a mistake at half time.
Kap as far as I am concerned Hamers sending off at Orient was wrong. He should not have come out of his box, but all he did was jump up and the ball hit him on the upper chest below the shoulder. And that's based on the video although I was there on the day. But that is one of the more difficult calls for a ref I agree. What I didn't like at the time was the slagging of Hamer, just as I don't like the slagging of CP over the Morro stuff
I' m sorry. I don' t think people are slagging CP. Rather, people are expressing an opinion that, in their opinion, Chris got that one wrong. There is a big difference between slagging off and expressing an opinion and I am surprised you don' t get that.
Based on reading the match thread two hours later, you pronounced that Chris Powell cost us two points.
People can make their minds up as to whether that is reasonable criticism.
I was too far away to make a good call on the pen, but (from a biased view) it looked like they both lunged for the ball - them's the breaks. However, the ref was inconsistent and over officious. Cite the talking to for Morrow and their 6 when both their 'second' challenges had been worse than Morrisons yellow and the new ball incident (burst ball against Derby?) The two worse decisions were at the end of the first half when Wilson knocked the ball past the LB, went to skip round him, and had his ankles tapped and Hamer's yellow - what was that for? Yes, he kicked the ball like a petulant 5 year old, but it was straight at the corner flag. My first thought was that the ref had thought he'd kicked it at the lino which should have been a straight red and we wouldn't have seen him for months..... As for the sub situation - tricky call. No brainer if 3 up with 20 to go, but defending a lead at HT, already using 1 sub and the team starting to exert some decent pressure.
Kap as far as I am concerned Hamers sending off at Orient was wrong. He should not have come out of his box, but all he did was jump up and the ball hit him on the upper chest below the shoulder. And that's based on the video although I was there on the day. But that is one of the more difficult calls for a ref I agree. What I didn't like at the time was the slagging of Hamer, just as I don't like the slagging of CP over the Morro stuff
I' m sorry. I don' t think people are slagging CP. Rather, people are expressing an opinion that, in their opinion, Chris got that one wrong. There is a big difference between slagging off and expressing an opinion and I am surprised you don' t get that.
Based on reading the match thread two hours later, you pronounced that Chris Powell cost us two points.
People can make their minds up as to whether that is reasonable criticism.
I didn' t know the result as I was reading the match thread and people on the thread were suggesting it would probably be a good idea to sub morro. I tended to agree at the time. A judgement call Chris got wrong I believe.
In all honesty a point at home Vs. Derby is not what I would of hoped for. Turns out our lads did well & I'll take it after another poor show from a ref.
For all the prancing around their boy hughes did in the middle of the park, they don't look like contenders for anything in this division. Possession and poxy 6 yard passes every 10 seconds look nice but overall they didn't worry me going forward as much as a leeds,millwall,Cardiff for example. Watching our lads, I still think we are adjusting to this league at times what with suspenions,injuries & tinkering. The squad is of a high enough calibre, and that paired with the prep CP puts into each and every game makes us good enough to challenge anyone in the league when we get going. I think teams like Derby, will do well to get a single point from the valley next season once we have settled in a bit more.
yes, I think we have a good foundation - with modest backing and a couple of players and you could see us challenging. I haven't given up on this season yet - we need a good run but the team is good enough to have one. The play offs are not out of reach yet in a league where everybody seems capable of taking points off each other.
Comments
I like a good few others on here said CO should have taken Morro off at half time that shitref was always going to send him off.
Also why can't we criticise Powell, formations etc? It is a forum. Surprise, surprise Haynes looked better up front then on the left. Those of us who saw him perform at Bristol and Burnley could tell you that but Powell missed it. Hulse is better than Yann, Pritchard should never have been dropped. Not hind sight off-it, just things people like myself who know and go to football have been
saying.
Well, I am very careful to stay out of the on-field debates here, unless I have been to the game being discussed or seen the whole thing live on TV. If you really think that because you go to the games you see things that Chris Powell has "missed", well, I think that is high handed ness and arrogance, turbocharged. but as you say, it's a forum, you go ahead. And if I think you are making unwarranted criticisms of a professional with a fantastic record of serving our club, I'm going to say so.
The standard of refs is getting worse because the height of the pyramid is reduced by the smaller base, as beginning referees are harassed out of the game.
If you wan't evidence of that, try reffing a local game, preferably Sunday league, to see what they have to put up with.
He has made his position clear on the matter - he had used a sub and didn't want to use two and remove later options. I think we should respect that, but nothing wrong with disagreeing with it as I do.
The problem for me is that it isn't just about trusting the player. it was clear that he was mistiming his tackles from his first half performance. I don't think he was trying to do this, but it wasn't his best game.
The lecture the ref gave him just before half time suggested he was walking a tightrope and the ref being clearly poor - you just knew he would take the slightest opportunity to send him off. The challenge for the penalty was mis-timed - we can debate whether it was or wasn't a pen but the ref was wrong to send Morro off -but it shouldn't have been a surprise.
He should have been taken off - not because he was on a booking, but because of the lecture. That is a clear warning that needs to be heeded. I suspect Sir Chris will act differently in similar future circumstances.
Anyway -onwards and upwards.
People can make their minds up as to whether that is reasonable criticism.
Enough from me.
For all the prancing around their boy hughes did in the middle of the park, they don't look like contenders for anything in this division. Possession and poxy 6 yard passes every 10 seconds look nice but overall they didn't worry me going forward as much as a leeds,millwall,Cardiff for example. Watching our lads, I still think we are adjusting to this league at times what with suspenions,injuries & tinkering.
The squad is of a high enough calibre, and that paired with the prep CP puts into each and every game makes us good enough to challenge anyone in the league when we get going. I think teams like Derby, will do well to get a single point from the valley next season once we have settled in a bit more.