I followed the game on the match thread about 2 hours after it finished. Very disappointed with only 1 point. The first 20 minutes sounded a bit dodgy but after the Haynes goal we sounded in control. The sending off did us though and I think CP should be blamed for that. He is the manager and should be able to read the emotions of the referee, his players and the general tempo of the game. I think there was a bloody good chance that Morro was going to see a second yellow and Chris should have preempted that. Many lifers on the match thread said that at HT. There was Dervite on the bench and Chris should have the confidence to use his subs. 2 points dropped after we had got ourselves in a good position in my opinion.
you weren't there so you won't have appreciated how good Derby were today. We were under the cosh from 55-65 mins and we needed our best defenders out there.
As Chris said, the turning point was actually Pritch missing an open goal, unfortunately.
Anyway, we will soon hopefully get a clear view of the penalty, and as I have said to the other armchair managers, if that turns out not to be a pen, then you owe Chris an apology
A reasonable response until the armchair managers comment and the rest of the last paragraph. Some of your comments are arrogant and condescending. I'm not quite sure who you think you are but you appear to have a very high handed attitude to all things Charlton. I would get off that high horse if I were you before you fall off. :-)
As I said earlier, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. You see, when half the stadium says that Morro ain't finishing the game on the pitch during the first half of the match, it's not really hindsight is it?
Oh really? Lots of people probably thought, "there's a chance he might get sent off second half" , but that's not the same as "knowing" is it? It's suspecting, or predicting.
If it then happens you can sit back and say, "there, I knew it" , but the point is that nobody knew it. How many times do you think someone "might" get sent off and they don't. You can't sub every person based on a hunch, not when you've already made one enforced change.
Anyway, pointless discussion. Some people will find fault in anything.
Not hindsight not a hunch. Ive seen and played enough football to know when a player aint gonna make it to the end! It was obvious to a blind man! , he even got a final warning from the ref, if it had been another player he would have got booked, you must have seen that? If you cant recognise that, there's no point in continuing this debate, but the majority of fans around us at the time and the ones I spoke to at half time reckoned Morro was gonna go!
Most reports seem to indicate that their number 6 was in the same situation. He made it to the end though. You are confusing chance with pre-destination. It was obvious that Morro could get sent off but that's how yellow cards work. It was Morrison's responsibility and he messed up. You can't blame Powell.
Im not confusing chance with predestination! For the last time morro was gonna go. NEVER in doubt cos he kept diving in! Their number 6 held back! We could all see that he was gonna go!
If Morro had stopped diving in then he wouldn't have gone. Much like Keogh managed to do. It's Morrison's responsibility to stop diving in unnecessarily, not Powell's to sub him in case he does. Unless Powell operates Morrison by remote control or a complex system of levers and pulleys. In which case I apologise
If Morro had stopped diving in then he wouldn't have gone. Much like Keogh managed to do. It's Morrison's responsibility to stop diving in unnecessarily, not Powell's to sub him in case he does. Unless Powell operates Morrison by remote control or a complex system of levers and pulleys. In which case I apologise
Agree. If we need to blame anyone, which I don't think we do, it is morro not Powell or the ref.
If Morro had stopped diving in then he wouldn't have gone. Much like Keogh managed to do. It's Morrison's responsibility to stop diving in unnecessarily, not Powell's to sub him in case he does. Unless Powell operates Morrison by remote control or a complex system of levers and pulleys. In which case I apologise
Bit of a childish comment GM however Powell does have a morro remote its called being his manager and as such he should have hit the cut and replace button!
Certainly a childish comment from me Greenie. Didn't want this one to escalate into something unpleasant so I thought I'd lighten the mood a little. Plus the idea of a Morrison puppet amused me
Certainly a childish comment from me Greenie. Didn't want this one to escalate into something unpleasant so I thought I'd lighten the mood a little. Plus the idea of a Morrison puppet amused me
Lol agreed i have to say I've enjoyed the debate on Morros sending off! Of course I am right! ;o) Cheers
If Morro had stopped diving in then he wouldn't have gone. Much like Keogh managed to do. It's Morrison's responsibility to stop diving in unnecessarily, not Powell's to sub him in case he does. Unless Powell operates Morrison by remote control or a complex system of levers and pulleys. In which case I apologise
This, CP was fully aware of the risk of Morro picking up a 2nd yellow and apparently had a word with him at half time. He obviously preferred to leave the defence alone and unfortunately Morro let him down. CP is the guy who makes the decisions and stands or falls by them, he is learning all the time and should Morro put him in that situation again no doubt he will think back to this episode.
I followed the game on the match thread about 2 hours after it finished. Very disappointed with only 1 point. The first 20 minutes sounded a bit dodgy but after the Haynes goal we sounded in control. The sending off did us though and I think CP should be blamed for that. He is the manager and should be able to read the emotions of the referee, his players and the general tempo of the game. I think there was a bloody good chance that Morro was going to see a second yellow and Chris should have preempted that. Many lifers on the match thread said that at HT. There was Dervite on the bench and Chris should have the confidence to use his subs. 2 points dropped after we had got ourselves in a good position in my opinion.
you weren't there so you won't have appreciated how good Derby were today. We were under the cosh from 55-65 mins and we needed our best defenders out there.
As Chris said, the turning point was actually Pritch missing an open goal, unfortunately.
Anyway, we will soon hopefully get a clear view of the penalty, and as I have said to the other armchair managers, if that turns out not to be a pen, then you owe Chris an apology
A reasonable response until the armchair managers comment and the rest of the last paragraph. Some of your comments are arrogant and condescending. I'm not quite sure who you think you are but you appear to have a very high handed attitude to all things Charlton. I would get off that high horse if I were you before you fall off. :-)
This. Prague, like all of us, is entitled to his opinion but when he is watching live 30-40 matches a season less than some, to come across all holier than thou is arrogance at its worse.
Also why can't we criticise Powell, formations etc? It is a forum. Surprise, surprise Haynes looked better up front then on the left. Those of us who saw him perform at Bristol and Burnley could tell you that but Powell missed it. Hulse is better than Yann, Pritchard should never have been dropped. Not hind sight off-it, just things people like myself who know and go to football have been saying.
Certainly a childish comment from me Greenie. Didn't want this one to escalate into something unpleasant so I thought I'd lighten the mood a little. Plus the idea of a Morrison puppet amused me
Lol agreed i have to say I've enjoyed the debate on Morros sending off! Of course I am right! ;o) Cheers
That was a debate? I thought it was just you telling us you were right all along because you had looked into your crystal balls, had a feeling in your water and had seen it written in the stars!
Didn't realise when I arrived that I was there to see the Boyeson show, with Charlton & Derby also featuring.
He was a complete joke of a ref and probably walked off the pitch at full-time lapping up the boos. Made a one off move from my usual perch in the north-upper to sit with mates in the Easy stand and had a great view of Haynes christmas cracker.
The player I was keen to see in action for the rams was Hughes. In the first 10 mins, he delayed his runs into the box and found himself in acres of space and looked like he'd cause us problems. But then Pritchard started to get tighter on him and he became far less effective, so good job Pritch.
Hamer was fantastic, as was Solly. BWP had a great 2nd half. Stevens was poor (again) and I've still yet to see the justification in rejecting a £2m bid in the summer.
Draw was a fair result and would've taken that before the game, so all-in-all happy.....................
From telly I don't think MM "dived in". There was no reason to go to ground. He was in front of Keough, attempting a difficult swivel clearance as aware of presence. As he swung he got a sly shove throwing him off balance and Keough fell over over his prone legs with ball long gone. Derby player never got near ball let alone went for it, so why a foul? If we give fk for every time a player trips over another without possession then game will go to dogs.
CP made a good team selection from the squad he has available leaving aside the loan players. Square pegs in square holes and all that. Haynes up front, A left footer on the left and Pritchard in the middle. Wilson balances up the right in front of Solly..
However the failings of the last month or so were clearly evident in the opening 20 minutes, when Derby played through our midfield with quick one touch football. Stephens and Jackson are passengers when the opposition have the ball - both have "slow feet" at this level. They are slow to re-act, Mis-time tackles and are eas y to play around. Jacko allowed the right back Brayford to run past him and overload Evina too often, ( and laughably pointed at him for Evina to mark on one occasion when he already had the Derby right midfielder! ). Fortunately Brayford switched to Centre Half at half-time and his replacement O'Connor was less effective allowing Jacko an easier second half.
Evina made a few basic errors early on, like trying to dribble out of the left back area and getting caught in possession and then heading a clearance to the feet of an opponent on the edge of the box instead of out for a throw-in. But he improved in the second half when he wasn't being overloaded, and it was good to see an orthodox left back in the team.
Morrison's recent problems probably come from opponents recognising he's a right footer playing in the left centre back area. Teams will play down the side between him and the left back and make it uncomfortable for him. A basic tactic. Not having a regular left back outside him to cover that area hasn't helped.
The brilliant shot from Haynes, against the run of play, completely changed the flow of the game, when it looked inevitable that Derby would score. That's what a bit of quality can do. After that, we competed really well and had a great spell after the break when a second goal would have killed Derby off. Pritchard should have scored of course, although BWP should also have scored on half-time when through on goal.
Kermorgant must be a conundrum for the manager. He is not tall enough to win high balls against Championship Centre Backs, not quick enough to run in behind them and his first thought is to flick the ball on rather than hold it up. Can he adapt his game and play more in the space in front of the opposition centre halves rather than play up against them, in the way Sheringham used to?
30 points in the bag, 20 to go. But we need to solve the problem of opponents playing through us in midfield. We are too easy to play against at the moment. A good point considering we had to overcome an erratic referee and going down to ten men for the last 20 mins.
Watford away will obviously be difficult, as they will also play a quick short passing game through midfield. However if Trevor Kettle is the referee, anything could happen. My main worry is that he will reward the diving and play-acting they were so efficient at in the home match.
We nearly all like to knock referees, but when I heard it was Carl Boyeson my heart sank. He truly is awful, he is clueless & ridiculously pinnickety.
I was at Huddersfield last season when Anthony Kay studded Waggy in the middle of his chest & Waggy didn't even get a free kick. A 100% red card reckless & dangerous challenge.
Yet every time we went anywhere near one of their players, we were "blown up" for a foul. He ended up sending off Russell.
Apart from being incompetent, Boyeson gives out yellows from the off, for the most innoculous of challenges, which inevitably leads to reds.
I was confident before KO, we were likely to have a sending off, unless we virtually played a non contact game.
It was apparent after Morrison's 1st yellow, that he was the player in danger of being sent off.
Boyeson even fell for Kermo's play acting and yellow carded a Derby player for an innocuous push.
Morro would have got a 2nd yellow, under the ref's pinnickety judgement, but escaped with a warning.
I said at HT Morrison should be subbed, as we wouldn't win the game with 10 men & it was clear to most, that a red card was likely.
I'm not blaming Powell, it was a 50/50 call, but I think he called it wrong.
Looking at the TV replays (10 times), Morrison does not appear to touch the ball, but does appear to take down the Derby player. Whilst debateable, I would say it was a penalty and as it was a goalscoring opportunity, probably a yellow card offence.
I truly hope Kettle is not the ref at Watford, as he is nearly as bad or as bad as Boyeson. If he is we'd better not make too many challenges or we'll end up playing with 10 again.
Good effort from the lads to salvage a point. I thought we'd definitely lose, once down to 10 men.
I recall that this same awful ref. gave a drop ball, rather than a red card, to Huddersfield's Kay when he almost broke Wagstaff's leg ! Where do they find them and why do we so regularly get them !
I can accept the penalty and just about accept a 2nd yellow for Morro, but by that standard I totally fail to understand how their No 6 who committed enough foul play for 3 sending offs remained on the pitch, similarly the full back who rugby tackled Pritchard, the charm merchant who took out Solly on the touch line, and wonderboy for pulling Pritchard's shirt ten yards in front of the ref to stop him running through. When a ref is so inconsistent the FA really should be asking some hard questions.
As per usual for this site Covered End is spot on. I was also at Hudds last season and have not been as wound up by a referee in years as I was that day. Yesterday was no different, the bloke is a total fuss pot. Look at his reaction to Hamer getting they ball changed. Hamer was for a good few minutes before hand telling Ben Roberts about the ball who in turn was keeping the 4th official informed. First break in play Hameer kicks it out and the 4th official is happy to change until Mr Boyeson gets involved tells Hamer he is in charge, checks the ball and then gets it changed.
The only reason I would have done the same as Powelly in keeping Morrison on was having already used 1 sub did we really want to have to use another with a 45 still to go? It was the worth the gamble which on this occasion did not come off. we could have lost Morrison in the same minute but not conceded, it was the penalty that was the killer.
I can accept the penalty and just about accept a 2nd yellow for Morro, but by that standard I totally fail to understand how their No 6 who committed enough foul play for 3 sending offs remained on the pitch, similarly the full back who rugby tackled Pritchard, the charm merchant who took out Solly on the touch line, and wonderboy for pulling Pritchard's shirt ten yards in front of the ref to stop him running through. When a ref is so inconsistent the FA really should be asking some hard questions.
Spot on SM. Refereeing is so inconsistent and is threatening to spoil the game. We've been victim of two or three dreadful ones this season, Sheff Weds a perfect example. We are due 'the rub of the green' soon surely ?
We nearly all like to knock referees, but when I heard it was Carl Boyeson my heart sank. He truly is awful, he is clueless & ridiculously pinnickety.
I was at Huddersfield last season when Anthony Kay studded Waggy in the middle of his chest & Waggy didn't even get a free kick. A 100% red card reckless & dangerous challenge.
Yet every time we went anywhere near one of their players, we were "blown up" for a foul. He ended up sending off Russell.
Apart from being incompetent, Boyeson gives out yellows from the off, for the most innoculous of challenges, which inevitably leads to reds.
I was confident before KO, we were likely to have a sending off, unless we virtually played a non contact game.
It was apparent after Morrison's 1st yellow, that he was the player in danger of being sent off.
Boyeson even fell for Kermo's play acting and yellow carded a Derby player for an innocuous push.
Morro would have got a 2nd yellow, under the ref's pinnickety judgement, but escaped with a warning.
I said at HT Morrison should be subbed, as we wouldn't win the game with 10 men & it was clear to most, that a red card was likely.
I'm not blaming Powell, it was a 50/50 call, but I think he called it wrong.
Looking at the TV replays (10 times), Morrison does not appear to touch the ball, but does appear to take down the Derby player. Whilst debateable, I would say it was a penalty and is it was a goalscoring opportunity, probably a yellow card offence.
I truly hope Kettle is not the ref at Watford, as he is nearly as bad or as bad as Boyeson. If he is we'd better not make too many challenges or we'll end up playing with 10 again.
Good effort from the lads to salvage a point. I thought we'd definitely lose, once down to 10 men.
I can accept the penalty and just about accept a 2nd yellow for Morro, but by that standard I totally fail to understand how their No 6 who committed enough foul play for 3 sending offs remained on the pitch, similarly the full back who rugby tackled Pritchard, the charm merchant who took out Solly on the touch line, and wonderboy for pulling Pritchard's shirt ten yards in front of the ref to stop him running through. When a ref is so inconsistent the FA really should be asking some hard questions.
Spot on SM. Refereeing is so inconsistent and is threatening to spoil the game. We've been victim of two or three dreadful ones this season, Sheff Weds a perfect example. We are due 'the rub of the green' soon surely ?
Totally agree.
Think Dave Jones was saying a while back that his team were falling foul of loads of decisions ....but don't expect he was complaining yesterday !
Comments
Cheers
:-)
Ps. Hope you are feeling better.
Also why can't we criticise Powell, formations etc? It is a forum. Surprise, surprise Haynes looked better up front then on the left. Those of us who saw him perform at Bristol and Burnley could tell you that but Powell missed it. Hulse is better than Yann, Pritchard should never have been dropped. Not hind sight off-it, just things people like myself who know and go to football have been
saying.
;-)
Now, who to blame...
Members of my family who went to the game agree with the sentiment that CP should've subbed Morro. SO I'm going to blame CP. :-)
;-)
He was a complete joke of a ref and probably walked off the pitch at full-time lapping up the boos.
Made a one off move from my usual perch in the north-upper to sit with mates in the Easy stand and had a great view of Haynes christmas cracker.
The player I was keen to see in action for the rams was Hughes. In the first 10 mins, he delayed his runs into the box and found himself in acres of space and looked like he'd cause us problems. But then Pritchard started to get tighter on him and he became far less effective, so good job Pritch.
Hamer was fantastic, as was Solly. BWP had a great 2nd half. Stevens was poor (again) and I've still yet to see the justification in rejecting a £2m bid in the summer.
Draw was a fair result and would've taken that before the game, so all-in-all happy.....................
However the failings of the last month or so were clearly evident in the opening 20 minutes, when Derby played through our midfield with quick one touch football. Stephens and Jackson are passengers when the opposition have the ball - both have "slow feet" at this level. They are slow to re-act, Mis-time tackles and are eas y to play around. Jacko allowed the right back Brayford to run past him and overload Evina too often, ( and laughably pointed at him for Evina to mark on one occasion when he already had the Derby right midfielder! ). Fortunately Brayford switched to Centre Half at half-time and his replacement O'Connor was less effective allowing Jacko an easier second half.
Evina made a few basic errors early on, like trying to dribble out of the left back area and getting caught in possession and then heading a clearance to the feet of an opponent on the edge of the box instead of out for a throw-in. But he improved in the second half when he wasn't being overloaded, and it was good to see an orthodox left back in the team.
Morrison's recent problems probably come from opponents recognising he's a right footer playing in the left centre back area. Teams will play down the side between him and the left back and make it uncomfortable for him. A basic tactic. Not having a regular left back outside him to cover that area hasn't helped.
The brilliant shot from Haynes, against the run of play, completely changed the flow of the game, when it looked inevitable that Derby would score. That's what a bit of quality can do. After that, we competed really well and had a great spell after the break when a second goal would have killed Derby off. Pritchard should have scored of course, although BWP should also have scored on half-time when through on goal.
Kermorgant must be a conundrum for the manager. He is not tall enough to win high balls against Championship Centre Backs, not quick enough to run in behind them and his first thought is to flick the ball on rather than hold it up. Can he adapt his game and play more in the space in front of the opposition centre halves rather than play up against them, in the way Sheringham used to?
30 points in the bag, 20 to go. But we need to solve the problem of opponents playing through us in midfield. We are too easy to play against at the moment. A good point considering we had to overcome an erratic referee and going down to ten men for the last 20 mins.
Watford away will obviously be difficult, as they will also play a quick short passing game through midfield. However if Trevor Kettle is the referee, anything could happen. My main worry is that he will reward the diving and play-acting they were so efficient at in the home match.
I was at Huddersfield last season when Anthony Kay studded Waggy in the middle of his chest & Waggy didn't even get a free kick. A 100% red card reckless & dangerous challenge.
Yet every time we went anywhere near one of their players, we were "blown up" for a foul. He ended up sending off Russell.
Apart from being incompetent, Boyeson gives out yellows from the off, for the most innoculous of challenges, which inevitably leads to reds.
I was confident before KO, we were likely to have a sending off, unless we virtually played a non contact game.
It was apparent after Morrison's 1st yellow, that he was the player in danger of being sent off.
Boyeson even fell for Kermo's play acting and yellow carded a Derby player for an innocuous push.
Morro would have got a 2nd yellow, under the ref's pinnickety judgement, but escaped with a warning.
I said at HT Morrison should be subbed, as we wouldn't win the game with 10 men & it was clear to most, that a red card was likely.
I'm not blaming Powell, it was a 50/50 call, but I think he called it wrong.
Looking at the TV replays (10 times), Morrison does not appear to touch the ball, but does appear to take down the Derby player. Whilst debateable, I would say it was a penalty and as it was a goalscoring opportunity, probably a yellow card offence.
I truly hope Kettle is not the ref at Watford, as he is nearly as bad or as bad as Boyeson. If he is we'd better not make too many challenges or we'll end up playing with 10 again.
Good effort from the lads to salvage a point. I thought we'd definitely lose, once down to 10 men.
The only reason I would have done the same as Powelly in keeping Morrison on was having already used 1 sub did we really want to have to use another with a 45 still to go? It was the worth the gamble which on this occasion did not come off. we could have lost Morrison in the same minute but not conceded, it was the penalty that was the killer.
Think Dave Jones was saying a while back that his team were falling foul of loads of decisions ....but don't expect he was complaining yesterday !