shine, who is responsible for you when the train is moving? What happens when someone has an accident on the train or is taken ill? What happens if something is on the line obstructing the train? Believe me shine I used to share the same opinion as you regarding these drivers but after seeing some of the things that they deal withi changed my opinion
Doubt we will be affected as Charlton isn't on the tube. Can understand Arsenal but not us would be royaly pissed off if it was for this reason as I have bougth a ticket for my mate.
shine, who is responsible for you when the train is moving? What happens when someone has an accident on the train or is taken ill? What happens if something is on the line obstructing the train? Believe me shine I used to share the same opinion as you regarding these drivers but after seeing some of the things that they deal withi changed my opinion
How much does a bus driver earn and they have to steer as well? I am not knocking the wages but striking to not have to work conditioned hours on a bank holiday really gets to me and I am a card carrying Union member and proud member of the CL Leftie Club
shine, who is responsible for you when the train is moving? What happens when someone has an accident on the train or is taken ill? What happens if something is on the line obstructing the train? Believe me shine I used to share the same opinion as you regarding these drivers but after seeing some of the things that they deal withi changed my opinion
How much does a bus driver earn and they have to steer as well? I am not knocking the wages but striking to not have to work conditioned hours on a bank holiday really gets to me and I am a card carrying Union member and proud member of the CL Leftie Club
They don't have 1000+ people on there bus at once while being 100ft below the surface though...
I am not sticking up for these guys but a lot of people think that they do ef all without any real knowledge of what is involved
Disagree there Shine. I know this won't be popular, but if someone enters into a career with low pay, I really don't see how they can then later moan that it doesn't pay enough.
So you can only complain when you are on high wages and want more ?.
No, didn't say that at all. I totally disagree with the tube drivers strike. But I also don't buy the nurses argument.
cafc999 - good point. I admit I have no idea what they do to earn the money other than what my friend tells me she did (wife of a CAFC season ticket holder so an impeccable source ;-)). My view is that they still get paid considerably more than other people and they get that due to threat of industrial action NOT because it is a more responsible job than many, many other lower paid jobs.
Disagree there Shine. I know this won't be popular, but if someone enters into a career with low pay, I really don't see how they can then later moan that it doesn't pay enough.
So you can only complain when you are on high wages and want more ?.
No, didn't say that at all. I totally disagree with the tube drivers strike. But I also don't buy the nurses argument.
Cool.. the nurses comment was just for some perspective, I ony mentioned that as someone else said 'I dont think its greed or stupidity to want a good wage for the work that they do'. Perspective is always needed, otherwise its a blind argument.
cafc999 - good point. I admit I have no idea what they do to earn the money other than what my friend tells me she did (wife of a CAFC season ticket holder so an impeccable source ;-)). My view is that they still get paid considerably more than other people and they get that due to threat of industrial action NOT because it is a more responsible job than many, many other lower paid jobs.
Totally agree, but there are many many more people working on the tube (management) who 'earn' a LOT more money yet nobody complains. As I said earlier, I do agree with striking when it comes to cutting of services, maintanence, etc,etc. But not for working boxing day, etc,etc
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
That is what The Sun/Mail will have you believe but its just not true. People only tend to strike when their jobs are at risk or their safety . I doubt your going to change your mind but believe me ' people very rarely strike for more pay and i know no one who would do so. Having said that i don't work for the London Underground.
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
That is what The Sun/Mail will have you believe but its just not true. People only tend to strike when their jobs are at risk or their safety . I doubt your going to change your mind but believe me ' people very rarely strike for more pay and i know no one who would do so. Having said that i don't work for the London Underground.
Honestly Beds pal, the only periodical I've ever read is Shooting Times. I've never been in a job where I've been able to strike for any reason. But that ain't my problem, I just hate Bob Crow.
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
Nothing wrong in that.
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more. I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster. I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
Of course his members love him - he gets them pay rises for doing fuck all while the rest of us pay for it.
Scumbag.
I'm a member of RMT and your right Bob Crow is appreciated by the members but as for doing fuck all , I resent that . I work bloody hard and I do long hours . I can see why people dislike him because at times he is all too ready to play the strike card but if people will just look a little deeper instead of reading the Sun headlines you might just find that there is good reason to take action. ( I don't work on on the tube so I can't talk for them ). Let me tell you that if it wasn't for RMT the rail companies would have streamlined its maintenance workforce so much over the last ten years just to pay its franchise payments that you would have seen several Hatfield/Potters Bar accidents with the loss of many , many lives. That is a fact .
I don't think Bob cares about how people view him as long as his members are safe, and the passengers are not at risk.
I don't think he cares how people view him because he's on 130k + a year and his deluded members think he's only got their best interests at heart!
To be honest, most, if not all his members care how much he gets paid, it's what they get paid is what worries them!
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
Nothing wrong in that.
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more. I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster. I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
So you don't think it's got anything to do with pissing peoples lives about, making an already stressful day at work twice as hard, all for better "conditions" (more money/less hours). Talk about green eyed monster all you like, but greedy ain't a good way to be either.
I don't think anyone is saying what you're implying CK, it's not about keeping anyone in their place, it's more about being on a decent old wack and being thankful for it.
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
Nothing wrong in that.
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more. I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster. I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
So you don't think it's got anything to do with pissing peoples lives about, making an already stressful day at work twice as hard, all for better "conditions" (more money/less hours). Talk about green eyed monster all you like, but greedy ain't a good way to be either.
I don't think anyone is saying what you're implying CK, it's not about keeping anyone in their place, it's more about being on a decent old wack and being thankful for it.
To be honest doubt the drivers even give a second thought about the public let alone who they are pissing off. They are simply using their position of strength. I dont think anyone should be thankful for being on a decent wage. The more you pay people the more they spend, or used to before thing in the world turned ugly.
How much should a train driver be paid then? I dont think its greed or stupidity to want a good wage for the work that they do.
Less than nurse. I think its insulting that a tube driver earns 3x what a nurse does, especially for 'the work that they do'
So, rather than saying they should get less than a nurse, why aren't you saying nurses should fight to get better pay?
The main issue I see on here is the amount drivers are being paid. Well, if you want good pay join a strong union who fights for its members or become a train driver. Just because they are on good money and you are not, don't begrudge them it, say fair play to them. Remember, you go and watch footballers play a game once a week for 90 minutes, train for 3 hours a day and easily earn double what they get, and as we know some earn double that a week!
Train drivers can carry 1,200 passengers at 120 miles an hour on the most busiest rail lines in the world which are falling to bits. One mistake and they could cause a serious accident and death. Should airline pilots be on less than £20,000 because after all, they only take off and land the aircraft?
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
Nothing wrong in that.
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more. I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster. I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
So you don't think it's got anything to do with pissing peoples lives about, making an already stressful day at work twice as hard, all for better "conditions" (more money/less hours). Talk about green eyed monster all you like, but greedy ain't a good way to be either.
I don't think anyone is saying what you're implying CK, it's not about keeping anyone in their place, it's more about being on a decent old wack and being thankful for it.
To be honest doubt the drivers even give a second thought about the public let alone who they are pissing off. They are simply using their position of strength. I dont think anyone should be thankful for being on a decent wage. The more you pay people the more they spend, or used to before thing in the world turned ugly.
You said people get the hump because of the green eyed monster
I'm suggesting that people get the hump when theres strikes on the train network because it pisses their already stressful lives about.
How much should a train driver be paid then? I dont think its greed or stupidity to want a good wage for the work that they do.
Less than nurse. I think its insulting that a tube driver earns 3x what a nurse does, especially for 'the work that they do'
So, rather than saying they should get less than a nurse, why aren't you saying nurses should fight to get better pay?
The main issue I see on here is the amount drivers are being paid. Well, if you want good pay join a strong union who fights for its members or become a train driver. Just because they are on good money and you are not, don't begrudge them it, say fair play to them. Remember, you go and watch footballers play a game once a week for 90 minutes, train for 3 hours a day and easily earn double what they get, and as we know some earn double that a week!
Train drivers can carry 1,200 passengers at 120 miles an hour on the most busiest rail lines in the world which are falling to bits. One mistake and they could cause a serious accident and death. Should airline pilots be on less than £20,000 because after all, they only take off and land the aircraft?
Kev, I think what is annoying for most is the constant striking for extra wages especially in the current climate when so many are without jobs or trying to get by on what they have. This lot want to work less for the same money or do the same hours for additional pay.
In the end the likely outcome is, we have disruption in our lives when trying to get to work on the days they are striking, TfL back down and agree to their demands, TfL then increase fares to fund the additional cost due to the drivers striking which then in turn affects our own pockets. Are you saying people are wrong to be annoyed about that?
As soon as anyone gets the better in an argument with the likes of Crow, they bring safety into it when in reality, it's always over dough!
That's utter rubbish.
If I say it's not, you'll come back with a massive post regarding safety.
I only know what i know through years of experience and i would never strike for more pay and neither would my colleagues.
Most strikes are pay related, just that the Unions call it "conditions".
Nothing wrong in that.
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more. I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster. I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
So you don't think it's got anything to do with pissing peoples lives about, making an already stressful day at work twice as hard, all for better "conditions" (more money/less hours). Talk about green eyed monster all you like, but greedy ain't a good way to be either.
I don't think anyone is saying what you're implying CK, it's not about keeping anyone in their place, it's more about being on a decent old wack and being thankful for it.
To be honest doubt the drivers even give a second thought about the public let alone who they are pissing off. They are simply using their position of strength. I dont think anyone should be thankful for being on a decent wage. The more you pay people the more they spend, or used to before thing in the world turned ugly.
You said people get the hump because of the green eyed monster
I'm suggesting that people get the hump when theres strikes on the train network because it pisses their already stressful lives about.
Yes, I do believe there is a large element of jealousy. Reading back through the posts there are quite few who think train driving is just a sitting down looking out the window job (I hope they do this and a bit more). One person thinks 3 days training would suffice another thinks its pushing a few buttons others think their pay to high and so on. People are very quick to judge others worth without actually knowing a great deal about what is actually involved. I do agree with your your second sentence but we the users are their leverage. As I work in the West End this may well end up effecting me but no one will ever here me criticize a worker for wanting to improve his or hers lot.
Yes, I do believe there is a large element of jealousy. Reading back through the posts there are quite few who think train driving is just a sitting down looking out the window job (I hope they do this and a bit more). One person thinks 3 days training would suffice another thinks its pushing a few buttons others think their pay to high and so on. People are very quick to judge others worth without actually knowing a great deal about what is actually involved. I do agree with your your second sentence but we the users are their leverage. As I work in the West End this may well end up effecting me but no one will ever here me criticize a worker for wanting to improve his or hers lot.
Surely then part of the union's work should be in education and PR. Pretty much everybody I know, and it's backed up by the comments on here, think tube drivers are grossly overpaid, strike at the drop of the hat and generally cause problems for commuters for no reason. If none of that is true then the union needs to do a far far better job of getting the message across that it's members are greedy money-grabbers, who strike because they fancy a day off, and that there are real serious issues that are truly worthy of striking over.
Any union that strikes and threatens to strike so often and so publicly is doing something wrong somewhere, either in it's negotiations or just in it's general relationship with employers. A strike should always be the last possible resort, which doesn't seem to be the case. Again if it is the case then better PR is needed.
But you say it's not just pushing a few buttons, it definitely is that on the Central line, and parts of other lines. The drivers on these lines are all but superfluous and earning far more than people doing more demanding jobs in the same industry (the DLR conductors I mentioned earlier).
Yes, I do believe there is a large element of jealousy. Reading back through the posts there are quite few who think train driving is just a sitting down looking out the window job (I hope they do this and a bit more). One person thinks 3 days training would suffice another thinks its pushing a few buttons others think their pay to high and so on. People are very quick to judge others worth without actually knowing a great deal about what is actually involved. I do agree with your your second sentence but we the users are their leverage. As I work in the West End this may well end up effecting me but no one will ever here me criticize a worker for wanting to improve his or hers lot.
Surely then part of the union's work should be in education and PR. Pretty much everybody I know, and it's backed up by the comments on here, think tube drivers are grossly overpaid, strike at the drop of the hat and generally cause problems for commuters for no reason. If none of that is true then the union needs to do a far far better job of getting the message across that it's members are greedy money-grabbers, who strike because they fancy a day off, and that there are real serious issues that are truly worthy of striking over.
Any union that strikes and threatens to strike so often and so publicly is doing something wrong somewhere, either in it's negotiations or just in it's general relationship with employers. A strike should always be the last possible resort, which doesn't seem to be the case. Again if it is the case then better PR is needed.
But you say it's not just pushing a few buttons, it definitely is that on the Central line, and parts of other lines. The drivers on these lines are all but superfluous and earning far more than people doing more demanding jobs in the same industry (the DLR conductors I mentioned earlier).
I stand corrected, pushing buttons it is then. I didn't know that always thought there would be more to it than that. They are going to need some top PR guru to square this one to win the public back, if thats what they want, which I doubt.I wouldn't like to see my subs going that way. Good to see another train related thread.
I'm sure it's more complicated on that on the lines that don't have full automation, there is a throttle involved, I've been on the simulator at the transport museum
Maybe they are fully justified in their strike action. What I'm saying is the general perception is that they aren't justified. If this perception is wrong then it is their job to change public perception, not get upset that people think they are unjustified.
All that is certain is that to the vast majority of commuters see ASLEF and RMT are the enemy, and most commuters see absolutely no justification for strike action, or even the threat of it. If it is justified then communicate simply and clearly why, and what's been done to avoid strike action. If the unions can't do that then public opinion will continue to be against them.
I'm sure it's more complicated on that on the lines that don't have full automation, there is a throttle involved, I've been on the simulator at the transport museum
Maybe they are fully justified in their strike action. What I'm saying is the general perception is that they aren't justified. If this perception is wrong then it is their job to change public perception, not get upset that people think they are unjustified.
All that is certain is that to the vast majority of commuters see ASLEF and RMT are the enemy, and most commuters see absolutely no justification for strike action, or even the threat of it. If it is justified then communicate simply and clearly why, and what's been done to avoid strike action. If the unions can't do that then public opinion will continue to be against them.
..and Bob Crow will continue to be classed as an absolute moron!
Comments
shine, who is responsible for you when the train is moving? What happens when someone has an accident on the train or is taken ill? What happens if something is on the line obstructing the train? Believe me shine I used to share the same opinion as you regarding these drivers but after seeing some of the things that they deal withi changed my opinion
I am not sticking up for these guys but a lot of people think that they do ef all without any real knowledge of what is involved
As C.Walsh'sLoveChild says Unionised workforces enjoy 8% more.
I think the real reason for peoples outrage is pure green eyed monster.
I will never understand the "they're not worth it" argument. Give the worker a kicking, keep them in their place.
I don't think anyone is saying what you're implying CK, it's not about keeping anyone in their place, it's more about being on a decent old wack and being thankful for it.
Less than nurse. I think its insulting that a tube driver earns 3x what a nurse does, especially for 'the work that they do'
So, rather than saying they should get less than a nurse, why aren't you saying nurses should fight to get better pay?
The main issue I see on here is the amount drivers are being paid. Well, if you want good pay join a strong union who fights for its members or become a train driver. Just because they are on good money and you are not, don't begrudge them it, say fair play to them. Remember, you go and watch footballers play a game once a week for 90 minutes, train for 3 hours a day and easily earn double what they get, and as we know some earn double that a week!
Train drivers can carry 1,200 passengers at 120 miles an hour on the most busiest rail lines in the world which are falling to bits. One mistake and they could cause a serious accident and death. Should airline pilots be on less than £20,000 because after all, they only take off and land the aircraft?
I'm suggesting that people get the hump when theres strikes on the train network because it pisses their already stressful lives about.
Less than nurse. I think its insulting that a tube driver earns 3x what a nurse does, especially for 'the work that they do'
So, rather than saying they should get less than a nurse, why aren't you saying nurses should fight to get better pay?
The main issue I see on here is the amount drivers are being paid. Well, if you want good pay join a strong union who fights for its members or become a train driver. Just because they are on good money and you are not, don't begrudge them it, say fair play to them. Remember, you go and watch footballers play a game once a week for 90 minutes, train for 3 hours a day and easily earn double what they get, and as we know some earn double that a week!
Train drivers can carry 1,200 passengers at 120 miles an hour on the most busiest rail lines in the world which are falling to bits. One mistake and they could cause a serious accident and death. Should airline pilots be on less than £20,000 because after all, they only take off and land the aircraft?
Kev, I think what is annoying for most is the constant striking for extra wages especially in the current climate when so many are without jobs or trying to get by on what they have. This lot want to work less for the same money or do the same hours for additional pay.
In the end the likely outcome is, we have disruption in our lives when trying to get to work on the days they are striking, TfL back down and agree to their demands, TfL then increase fares to fund the additional cost due to the drivers striking which then in turn affects our own pockets. Are you saying people are wrong to be annoyed about that?
I do agree with your your second sentence but we the users are their leverage.
As I work in the West End this may well end up effecting me but no one will ever here me criticize a worker for wanting to improve his or hers lot.
Any union that strikes and threatens to strike so often and so publicly is doing something wrong somewhere, either in it's negotiations or just in it's general relationship with employers. A strike should always be the last possible resort, which doesn't seem to be the case. Again if it is the case then better PR is needed.
But you say it's not just pushing a few buttons, it definitely is that on the Central line, and parts of other lines. The drivers on these lines are all but superfluous and earning far more than people doing more demanding jobs in the same industry (the DLR conductors I mentioned earlier).
I stand corrected, pushing buttons it is then. I didn't know that always thought there would be more to it than that.
They are going to need some top PR guru to square this one to win the public back, if thats what they want, which I doubt.I wouldn't like to see my subs going that way.
Good to see another train related thread.
Maybe they are fully justified in their strike action. What I'm saying is the general perception is that they aren't justified. If this perception is wrong then it is their job to change public perception, not get upset that people think they are unjustified.
All that is certain is that to the vast majority of commuters see ASLEF and RMT are the enemy, and most commuters see absolutely no justification for strike action, or even the threat of it. If it is justified then communicate simply and clearly why, and what's been done to avoid strike action. If the unions can't do that then public opinion will continue to be against them.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=UHu_cfy33bY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=UHu_cfy33bY&gl=GB