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NEW ARTICLE: 20 years on: are we still "a special club" and does it matter?

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  • As others have said in this thread, every club is special in its own right regardless of the journey it has been on, the current culture, others' perceptions. All Football supporters talk about their own club as if it is overly special compared to others'. The one big example I notice is when people refer to their players as being fit/not fit for "the shirt". As if that shirt is so unique in the footballing world that only special individuals can lay claim to it.

    I do think we have lost a bit of that uniqueness with Football fans outside of the club (neutrals). We're no longer little Charlton punching above its weight with the big boys anymore. If anything we are at a level which most expect us to be in proportion with our place in the food chain so we don't necessarily stand out.

    In addition, very few Football fans of the modern generation know about Charlton's plight to get back to The Valley twenty years ago. It's not something that gets brought up a lot in the sporting press I feel.

    So yes, we are a special club in what we have achieved and the struggles we've overcome and what we have previously excelled in. I don't think its a view instantly recognized by many others though.
  • Joined the trust. Live in Cornwall. Mrs to leave me.
  • Unfortunately, things move on. Yes, we are left with the memories, good and bad, but times have changed. Do I still think Charlton is a "special" club? For me it is and always will be. As I live abroad, I can't get to as many games as I'd like, but, hey, I still get that buzz walking down Floyd Road and a feeling of belonging. God knows what I'd feel if things went pear shaped. The present board have bailed us out but at what cost in the future no one really knows. Can we trust them? Who knows and their silence is deafening. The departures of various people who have strong ties with the club have certainly not helped to alleviate rumours. I just hope that our club can continue to be "special" to so many of us for many years to come. Finally, I don't think any of us choose to be Charlton supporters, we are born Charlton supporters..
  • Rodney - you don't live here no more

  • cafctom said:

    I do think we have lost a bit of that uniqueness with Football fans outside of the club (neutrals). We're no longer little Charlton punching above its weight with the big boys anymore. If anything we are at a level which most expect us to be in proportion with our place in the food chain so we don't necessarily stand out.

    I agree, we've also lost the 'role model status' we had for many years, when mid sized Championship clubs would talk about 'doing a Charlton'.

    20 year is a long time. As one of the 8337 in 1992, did I care about events in 1972?
  • Any football club has to be more than just a set of shirts or a profit and loss sheet.

    I'd assume that we all want success on the pitch but I don't want that at any costs and I don't just want success on the pitch. I want stability, I want a Club I'm proud of for what it stands for in football and in the community. I want a Club that fans can relate to and feel part of. I'm not saying we fans have to run the club or should be able to dictate policy but we should be a big factor when those decisions are made.

    I don't think it matters that we have Man City and Chelsea fans in charge or that we might be taken over by Fenerbache fans. All things being equal I would rather it was Charlton fans running Charlton but all things are not equal.

    I'd rather have a fan of another club with good intentions and deep pockets over a Charlton fan with just one or neither.

    I do think it matters if the people running the Club or working for the Club don't understand or care about the Club's history or don't see any need to engage with fans at any level at all.

    Those that do not study history are destined to repeat it.
  • Cafctom mentions that the sporting press rarely mentions our return to The Valley. It's hardly surprising,it was twenty years ago and is history, an extraordinary achievement but pertinent now to Charlton and its fans only.

    We are an ordinary club that did something very special.
  • Great post Airman, and I also I agree with DRF that it is the fans that make our club special as they stick with the club through thick and thin over generations. Of course memories fade, and one day the whole back to the valley period will be a shadowy page in history, much like the memories of those who laboured to create the original pitch and ground in an old chalk quarry in 1919. But each event in the clubs history is retained in it's DNA, the collective emotions of the supporters - we are special, we will always be special because of all the things we have gone through.
  • In (partial) answer to AFKAs question, the trust survey #1 revealed that c.50% of fans have been going to Charlton since before the return to the Valley. The average "length of service" is 34 years - 45 in the East Stand!
    That ties with the gradual growth in the 90s as our average gate climbed by c.1,000 each and every season...
    There are some who joined up in the Premier Years and some who first came along in the last 5...
    There is no central CASC so the Trust is the place for people to regroup and put in place an organisation that has a real dialogue with the club - in just a few months it has built a subscriber / twitter following of over 1,000 - the launch is tonight - let's see where it goes in 2013 !


  • 20 year is a long time. As one of the 8337 in 1992, did I care about events in 1972?

    We got relegated.

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  • Great summary of the recent history of our beloved Club, Airman and a good piece from one of "the new kids on the block ", razil.

    Both remind us of the importance that we, the supporters remain mindful of the ever changing face of football ..evolving maybe, but doesn't that point to changing for the better ? And that we have a responsibility to play our part in ensuring that Charlton Athletic will remain a viable & competitive Club for our children and our children's children to support, ad infinitum. We owe it to those who fought valiantly during the wilderness years to bring us home, and to those future generations.

    To some, it may sound as though it's a "us" and "them" situation ie supporters & the Board, but this is not of our making. And neither is it an ideal situation. I have been involved with NWKA for around 15 years & during this time have enjoyed a good relationship with management at the Club. This, in turn, has benefitted our members by allowing guests such as Peter Varney, Martin Simons and Steve Kavanagh to meet with them at Q & A events . As a result, I feel that these supporters have gained a clearer insight into what goes on behind the scenes at their Club. And, those guests will in turn have invariably taken away some suggestions and/or views which clarified the way in which the fans perceive them. Communication has to be for the benefit of all concerned & surely minimises the possibilty of the kind of surprise sprung on those attending The Valley on that fateful day in September 1985.

    As pointed out earlier, Supporter Groups have sadly diminshed in number and memberships have declined for a number of reasons and although I have no concerns that those still in existence can continue to work in tandem with a ST, their influence is minimal. The future of the Fans' Forum is in question, with no fulltime CEO to attend and represent the Club as is the annual meeting between VIPs and Chairman. Whether the Target 40,000 committee continues to meet , I know not. Dialogue between Club and fans has basically disappeared.

    The launch of CAST tonight will mark another chapter in the history of Charlton Athletic FC and is one which I shall be "reading" closely. This is not a challenge to the Board or owners , neither is it the taking up of arms for a battle ahead IMHO. It is the first, vital step in an effort to re-establish closer links between fans and our Club and to help in any way feasible towards a stable & successful future both on & off the pitch. We are the foot soldiers who can, if allowed, become an important cog in the machinery that is CAFC . Why would anyone not wish to be part of this ?

    I know that I do.

  • cafctom said:

    I do think we have lost a bit of that uniqueness with Football fans outside of the club (neutrals). We're no longer little Charlton punching above its weight with the big boys anymore. If anything we are at a level which most expect us to be in proportion with our place in the food chain so we don't necessarily stand out.

    I agree, we've also lost the 'role model status' we had for many years, when mid sized Championship clubs would talk about 'doing a Charlton'.

    20 year is a long time. As one of the 8337 in 1992, did I care about events in 1972?
    --------------------------

    There's evidence of how 'special' we were seen in the wider world. Airman quotes Simon Inglis' book from 1996. I have mentioned, perhaps too often for some, David Conn's book which he wrote late in 2004, where he holds us up as an example of how a club should be run on and off the pitch. Wendy Perfect gets a name check as she was Supporters Director at the time.

    Soon after that of course the wheels came off with terrifying speed. It's worth reflecting that we've actually become an embarrassment for journalists like David Conn, because they had been persuaded that we had really got it right and were a much better example for the future than Chelsea or Man U. So that's a clear enough reason why we are no longer seen as "special" by the media. Our demise made some of them who'd praised us, look a bit foolish. But the image lasted a long time, from 1992 to at least 2004.




  • edited December 2012
    I think the nub of the issue is that the special bond between the club and supporters enabled Charlton to do extraordinary things in the 90s and beyond. It also strengthened the foundations of the business by engaging and enlarging the supporter base, but not sufficiently to secure the club's future. That's why I am very sceptical of the idea that superior business practices, even if that was an accurate description of what is happening (and it really isn't), would be likely to deliver better or even the same outcomes. A shedload of money on the other hand might, whether or not we think that is desirable, but I don't see that at the moment.

    My guess, by the way, is that you'll now see Steve Bradshaw put forward as front man. That would be better than the current situation and if it happens it's to be welcomed, but he's not a director. PT Prothero is perfectly capable of engaging with supporters and if he continues not to do so then the question needs to be asked why not.
  • edited December 2012
    .

  • We are special because of the personal emotional connection to Charlton Athletic but no other reason.

    (I wrote a much longer article but the thread has moved on in a more business like direction so I'll leave it for now).
  • post it anyway Johnny, always enjoy your views.
  • Here, Here! I could not agree more with Airman's original post. Already registered with the Trust myself.
  • johnny73 said:

    We are special because of the personal emotional connection to Charlton Athletic but no other reason.

    (I wrote a much longer article but the thread has moved on in a more business like direction so I'll leave it for now).

    well, I'm curious as to what you wrote. Do you not think that the outside world also saw us as 'special' for a while?

    I think that up to 2004-5 we were seen as special and things like Valley Express, the Supporter Director, the marketing initiatives for pricing which had so much fan input...these things gave us a very good reputation. We were "best practice" in terms of supporter engagement with the club as a business. Now, we are actually behind the curve because we are are one of the minority of clubs that don't even have a Trust. But tonight, thanks to Barnie & co. we are on the way up again in that respect.

    Maybe you were coming at it from a different perspective. But personally, I think we really deserved to be called 'special' for a while

  • Sorry folks, but the world has changed. I was born into a world where you had your front door key on a bit of string hanging inside the letter box. I now live in a world where I see a hoodie and wonder whether he is carrying a knife. I used to have to go to the Cinema to see the outside world, but now I have a box in my Lounge which dominates my evenings and takes me wherever I want to go. Football is no longer a place where I used to be passed over the heads to the front so that I could see, it is a Business end of story. Football is in my blood, at home amongst my family Charlton Athletic will always be special. I am grateful to the people who have produced an excellent Stadium, and kept The Valley open ( for business ) ! We the supporters bring the 'special feeling' with us when we arrive, I still stand with my hotdog outside the shop and drink in the experience of watching as people of all ages colours and creeds arrive carrying that bit of excitement that says 'this is it, MY Charlton'. Don't look back in anger, look forward in anticipation. It will always be special, the memories, the players, the goals, and just occasionally winning something. I raise my glass.
  • Of course we are special, 36 seasons supporting the club now. Would never follow another club.. 20 years has flown by..
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  • AFKA I agree to an extent with what you said. But the question wasn't 'is Charlton any more special than any other club'. If it had been I probably would have said no. Every club means something to its fans, we all have our special events and special periods. Why is that important? Why do we need to be anymore 'special' than anyone else?
    Are we really that narsasistic (sp) as a fan base?
    Every generation of this club will have it's memories - we don't celebrate our cup win now but I bet they did for a few years after it.
    Yes we move on, yes we the fans change, but that doesn't make us or our club any less special.
  • Re reading the posts & realising mine wasn't relevant here - apologies.

    A special Club ?

    A question which needs no answer IMHO.
  • It was Fanny cul8r
  • I went to most home and away games from 1987 but from about 2005 it started to become less enjoyable to go to The Valley. The fanbase had watered down and changed for the worse, the club and supporters seemed to forget why we had arrived where we had. So around about 2005 is when I'd say the club lost that 'special' feeling - everything at the club was peaking and there was nothing left to fight for, we'd 'made it'. Yet despite 'making it', there still seemed disapproval from the watered down fanbase that we ought to somehow be doing better than midtable in the Prem. Crazy.

    So I walked away in 2005 we were still doing well in the Prem - I became a part timer, probably averaging half a dozen homes a season and the occasional away, which I still average nowadays.

    I guess if a hardcore supporter, as I was (for a few years I helped Mark Mansfield in the studio at RTM on Sunday nights, used to sell VOTV on matchdays - so I got 'involved'), was prepared to walk away from a seemingly thriving club then much of the watered down fanbase of the Prem years was certainly not going to hang around when the going got tough. So we are where we are.

    A good article by Airman Brown, and reading his endorsement of the CAS Trust this morning has prompted me to sign up as a member today.

    I'll remain a Charlton part timer as since 2005 I've got my 'fix' by following Erith & Belvedere home and away (pre-2005 it used to be them that I'd watch half a dozen times a season) - my CL username might make sense now. But to answer the question in the thread title, yes, I think it does matter to the supporters of Charlton Athletic that they perceive the club to be special, so for that reason I wish everyone involved with the CAS Trust all the success you deserve, albeit I'll be backing you from a safe distance.
  • Aiman says :-"I also say to anyone who is willing to listen to me that the spirit of 1992 is needed now as urgently as it ever was. "

    Personally, I have faith in what you say, rather than the "new board".

    However, it's a matter of faith either way.

    If more people are to sign up to the trust in numbers, then we need facts.
  • I'm sure this video must have been posted on here - either today or before - but it is a must watch. What an incredible effort it was getting back home and getting The Valley in the glorious state it is now. Great to see regular posters on here featuring heavily in the footage...

    http://vimeo.com/groups/charltonlife/videos/5616482
  • @PragueAddick I'm answering the post in a personal way and so I am not tackling whether our business practice was good or bad during any particular era.

    In the wider context of football I do not think Charlton Athletic are special, original or unique. Many clubs have been through difficult circumstances and their fans have shown resilience to ensure they survive.

    However many of you did something special when it was needed twenty years ago and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. You were the ones who were special. Without you the physical entity of Charlton Athletic would not be around in its current form.

    Obviously our day to day focus is on the physical entity, how well the team is performing, is the manager up to it, where is the money coming from, can we trust the owners, is our support what it used to be, do we need our own voice in case it all goes wrong (yes we do and I have subscribed to the Trust) etc.

    The physical entity is all business. It is the skin and bone. This will always be the case but the best way I can describe it is that it is background noise to my real emotions. I still support the physical entity as much as finances, family and time allow and I wouldn't want it to fall into disrepair.

    But then the physical entity that is Charlton Athletic is not the same as the emotional version I have in my head.

    The emotional entity is awash with memories:

    Sitting in front of a tiny box with only 4 channels, Bruce Hornsby and the Range playing over the final scores as cafc battled the odds, gradually pulling me in as the weeks passed and ultimately gaining the glory of promotion.

    Sitting in the back of my parents car, cricking my neck to see, where the Valley was. (I still do the same today whenever I go past on the train).

    Riding my push bike up to a deserted and derelict Valley. The burnt out caravan in the car park. The other kids telling me a ghost lived there.

    The other kids giving me strange looks at school because I followed Charlton and they were all Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal.

    Working Woolwich Market and chatting to the leathery old geezer who had seen the FA Cup win.

    Buying Match magazine at the start of every season and playing with the cut out teams tabs and moving Charlton to the top.

    Reading every book or article I could get hold of. The specialness of Seed, The legend of Bartram, the sadness of Summers, the rise and decline.

    Feeling and becoming Charlton long before I watched an actual game.

    Reaching adulthood and finally realizing that my old man supported the same team, had once stood on those terraces, had felt the depression of loss and the jubilation of success. I'd found a connection to a man who barely spoke a word.

    And then the progression from a game every now and then to season ticket holder and back out again as family, finances and work got in the way.

    I realize that my journey to being Charlton is different to many of you. I have generally gone to games alone, I do not personally know another Charlton supporter (I don't mind any of that) despite being born and growing up in Woolwich, I have not been actively involved in any of the fan movements , even when I do attend games it is always with that dislocated ethereal connection to the past. So personally for me Charlton and the Valley (the emotional version) is special, is unique, is heart but it's all internal. Perhaps a romanticized version of reality. It works for me so I'll keep on.

    I guess my point is, if you have an emotional connection then cafc is special (and the word 'special' means so much more than any club policy or fan interaction), whether that link comes from 1992, 1947 or 2012 because its not about what anyone is doing but how you are feeling. Each day is a link in the chain.

    Now I realize this thread is almost entirely about the physical entity (due to the launch of the Trust), mainly because many of you have been actively involved in the club, you are connected to the community through friends and family, many of you are concerned about the future, I can tell you what the future will bring.

    We will have highs and lows (on and off the pitch) but the emotional connection (and we all have our own versions of this) will remain and when the club needs them then new heroes will emerge because of the emotional link.
  • Well johnny 73, that is damn good and I really enjoyed reading that. It's like looking into the soul of a typical Charlton fan
  • A great piece Johnny73
  • Nobody doubts your sincerity Airman, but the majority of the fan base lack facts which you evidently can't share. A call to arms needs a reason beyond not liking the smell of something. If you are saying "don't trust the board" I do think you should give hard reasons rather than the sentimental one that in an ideal world we would be run by people with passion for what the club stands for.

    It is a fact isn't it that we can't survive as a competitive championship club unless someone is willing to dig deep to bankroll the playing side? We may not like it but football is a different business now compared with 1992. Unless there is a supporter with the money and inclination to do that we will either have to settle for a lower level of existence or accept owners who aren't fans won't we?

    What the CAST needs to get across is how it is going to influence things in a positive way in the absence of a large amount of cash. We are already on a road that surely leads to the club being sold on - probably to another non-fan so the current owners can make a profit. What other exit option is there that bears thinking about? What is the trust's leverage?

    I will be joining the trust. Until there is hard evidence available to indicate otherwise I hope the trust will try and work constructively with whoever is holding the steering wheel of the CAFC bus because, extending the metaphor, we are driving along a narrow winding mountain road at speed and are in the SH1 if the driver f#cks off.
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