"Clips of the chants had been posted on the YouTube website by a member going by the username of "cockneymatt88". The trust noted that the number in the username might have been a neo-Nazi reference, the 88 being the eighth letter of the alphabet twice over, standing for "Heil Hitler"." not that it might be the year he was born!
"Eighty-eight is used as code among white supremacists to identify each other. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means Heil Hitler"
thats such bollox, these sort of chants ae always going to be sung by the minority, they have turned a blind eye for years, why start coming down on them now! And the first thing i thought, was that this pillocks username the 88 part, i thought DOB not heil hitler! Stuff like this is boring.
the chanting is the issue, not the fact this bloke has a misconstrued user name. thats taking away from the issue that you shouldn't think things like that, let alone sing it at football.
brings me back to that hitler sign guy at the valley v chelsea.
it's not right to turn a blind eye. making more of it than needs to, makes it more trivial.
Spot on Suzi. Very easy to get sidetracked away from the real issue. You can't stop people thinking like that, but you should be able to stop them airing their views if they are that unwelcome (I know its a free country and all that, but some things go beyond the bounds of decency...)
To be honest singing anti-jew songs to Tottenham is hardly something new, it's been going on for years. And Spurs are so bothered by it they play on the jewish connection by calling themselves the Yid Army!
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]To be honest singing anti-jew songs to Tottenham is hardly something new, it's been going on for years. And Spurs are so bothered by it they play on the jewish connection by calling themselves the Yid Army!
perhaps, doesn't make it ok, and the chant wasn't only derogatory to jews was it.
At the end of the day, short of us all standing in the boleyn on match day with every race arm in arm singing kumbaya, west ham fans will have the stigma of the thuggish hooligans of the 70's - 80's.
Many supporters of clubs a similar size as us often slate us as having "friends in the media" and getting a lot of press. This extends to bad press as well as good, just as this case shows.
Also, 3-4 seasons back at our game at the new den. A little bit of gesturing and goading from our fans towards millwall inside the ground recieved loads of press, photo's, the works slamming us as hooligans. The very same day pompey played southampton, where it all kicked off in the town centre for a good couple of hours after the game. This only got 2 sentances in the press.
I agree some of the chants are un-called for. But some of it is simply football banter. Its PC lunacy gone mad.
As for the 88 in the username, this bloke is stupid enough to publish racist incriminating footage on a website, do you think he's got 2 braincells to rub together to come up with a username with the 88 meaning hail hitler? Or is he simply a pissed up 16 year old who thinks its funny to film people singing "i'd rather be a p*ki than a jew".
Mortain, I fully understand your point of view. We are lucky that CAFC does not have that sort of legacy / stigma attached to it and as such is not an issue we come up against that often. As you say, not all press is good press...
i agree its blown out of all proportion, i havent seen the clip of the chants, for all i know they werent even singing whats reported.
if it is true, then its not right, and its good it gets publicity, however, it doesnt mean ALL west ham fans are racist thugs
remember that article some time ago when the black reporter went to millwall to give his views on a black man going to a game at the new den
he said some scandalous things that the average joe would then accept as the truth and think all millwall fans were racist thugs.
he's just as bad with his generalising as the thugs (in the minority) themselves.
one of his points was how he was the only black man in the stand and no one sat near him.
that would be because millwall were averaging 4 fans per block. and no one was sitting near anyone
its all about interpretation.
however mortain and others, there has to be a line somewhere between football banter, and sheer offensive racist comments.
I remember it too Henry - I was in the Kop that day with a Liverpool supporting friend. The locals worked out I was Charlton, and asked me to translate it for them as they couldn't make it out. I said I couldn't either. Rarely been as embarrassed by our own fans.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]To be honest singing anti-jew songs to Tottenham is hardly something new, it's been going on for years. And Spurs are so bothered by it they play on the jewish connection by calling themselves the Yid Army!
Spurs are trying to stamp this out amongst their own supporters. Quite right in my view.
You only have to read some posts on KUMB to see that some posters think it's right to use such racist language. West Ham's official site say they take this very seriously and I'm sure thats true. Most Hammers fans are decent and do not indulge in this sort of filth.
Last year most English fans were up in arms about the "monkey" chanting of Spanish supporters against black England players. We wanted them to be chucked out of the World Cup. I'm afraid that something fairly harsh needs to be done to send a strong message that this sort of stuff will not be tolerated (and it's fairly well known to have been going on for years). Perhaps docking some points is a fitting punishment. On the other hand they may not have any to dock once the Tevez/Mascherano penalty is invoked.
I'm sorry Mortain, it's harsh to punish decent fans such as yourself but how else is this sort of thing going to be stamped out?
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]The 88 link is reasonable as it is a well known right wing reference hence "Combat 88". Of course it may just be someone born in 1988.
That organisation is actually Combat 18 after the positioning of the letters A for Adolf and H for for Hitler in the alphabet.
Quite so BFR, my mistake. I will write out 100 times "I must read Searchlight more often"
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]
Spurs are trying to stamp this out amongst their own supporters. Quite right in my view.
Don't wash with me mate.
Every home game there is a bloke sat on the shelf, banging his drum and everyone chants "YIDS" (or CHEESE as it sounds). If they were trying to stamp it out, ban the drummer, simple. But he's still there, leading that chant.
The fact that tottenham fans declaring themselves as the "yid army" is only going to invite drunken rival football fans to derogatory songs about them.
The word "Yid" is actually defined in the dictionary as an offensive term for a jew. It could be argued that tottenham fans are being racist towards the jewish community themselves by chanting this week in week out.
After all, how many of the "yid army" will actually turn out to be jewish.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]I'm afraid that something fairly harsh needs to be done to send a strong message that this sort of stuff will not be tolerated (and it's fairly well known to have been going on for years). Perhaps docking some points is a fitting punishment. On the other hand they may not have any to dock once the Tevez/Mascherano penalty is invoked.
Docked points? For a video of a handfull of fans chanting in the concourse?
What about docking points for man united's chant to park?
I'm sure all koreans love them chanting that they eat dogs don't they.
Or is that not racist?
I agree racism should be kicked out, but that is a pathetic suggestion.
also i didn't think the chant was directed soley at"jews" didn't it involve derogatory comments towards "paki's" which in itself is a racist pathetic comment.
at charlton, where i sit, if we're playing against park i've heard "dog eater" and "dago" and "spic" i dont' even know what the last 2 are, but it does raise a few chuckles around me.
shamed to say i dont say anything to try to stop them. :-(
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_(number)
"Eighty-eight is used as code among white supremacists to identify each other. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means Heil Hitler"
i think it's two fat ladies though.
brings me back to that hitler sign guy at the valley v chelsea.
it's not right to turn a blind eye. making more of it than needs to, makes it more trivial.
perhaps, doesn't make it ok, and the chant wasn't only derogatory to jews was it.
Many supporters of clubs a similar size as us often slate us as having "friends in the media" and getting a lot of press. This extends to bad press as well as good, just as this case shows.
Also, 3-4 seasons back at our game at the new den.
A little bit of gesturing and goading from our fans towards millwall inside the ground recieved loads of press, photo's, the works slamming us as hooligans. The very same day pompey played southampton, where it all kicked off in the town centre for a good couple of hours after the game. This only got 2 sentances in the press.
I agree some of the chants are un-called for.
But some of it is simply football banter.
Its PC lunacy gone mad.
Or is he simply a pissed up 16 year old who thinks its funny to film people singing "i'd rather be a p*ki than a jew".
if it is true, then its not right, and its good it gets publicity, however, it doesnt mean ALL west ham fans are racist thugs
remember that article some time ago when the black reporter went to millwall to give his views on a black man going to a game at the new den
he said some scandalous things that the average joe would then accept as the truth and think all millwall fans were racist thugs.
he's just as bad with his generalising as the thugs (in the minority) themselves.
one of his points was how he was the only black man in the stand and no one sat near him.
that would be because millwall were averaging 4 fans per block. and no one was sitting near anyone
its all about interpretation.
however mortain and others, there has to be a line somewhere between football banter, and sheer offensive racist comments.
As for Nazis and BNP and skin heads on a 'cause' I think that they need a serious rethink..... education rather than a kicking ...
The 88 link is reasonable as it is a well known right wing reference hence "Combat 88". Of course it may just be someone born in 1988.
Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember SOME Charlton fans singing a variation of the same song at Anfield
That organisation is actually Combat 18 after the positioning of the letters A for Adolf and H for for Hitler in the alphabet.
Spurs are trying to stamp this out amongst their own supporters. Quite right in my view.
You only have to read some posts on KUMB to see that some posters think it's right to use such racist language. West Ham's official site say they take this very seriously and I'm sure thats true. Most Hammers fans are decent and do not indulge in this sort of filth.
Last year most English fans were up in arms about the "monkey" chanting of Spanish supporters against black England players. We wanted them to be chucked out of the World Cup. I'm afraid that something fairly harsh needs to be done to send a strong message that this sort of stuff will not be tolerated (and it's fairly well known to have been going on for years). Perhaps docking some points is a fitting punishment. On the other hand they may not have any to dock once the Tevez/Mascherano penalty is invoked.
I'm sorry Mortain, it's harsh to punish decent fans such as yourself but how else is this sort of thing going to be stamped out?
Quite so BFR, my mistake. I will write out 100 times "I must read Searchlight more often"
Can I have my February edition back please Henry?
I will return your latest copies of Spare Rib and Young Socialist weekly at the Newcastle game (I'd rather be Flem than a Geordie)
;-)
Any news on the 'tinernet scandel?
"If it wasn't for the Saxons you'd be Welsh"
Don't wash with me mate.
Every home game there is a bloke sat on the shelf, banging his drum and everyone chants "YIDS" (or CHEESE as it sounds). If they were trying to stamp it out, ban the drummer, simple. But he's still there, leading that chant.
The fact that tottenham fans declaring themselves as the "yid army" is only going to invite drunken rival football fans to derogatory songs about them.
The word "Yid" is actually defined in the dictionary as an offensive term for a jew. It could be argued that tottenham fans are being racist towards the jewish community themselves by chanting this week in week out.
After all, how many of the "yid army" will actually turn out to be jewish.
Docked points? For a video of a handfull of fans chanting in the concourse?
What about docking points for man united's chant to park?
I'm sure all koreans love them chanting that they eat dogs don't they.
Or is that not racist?
I agree racism should be kicked out, but that is a pathetic suggestion.
shamed to say i dont say anything to try to stop them. :-(