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Daylight Robbery???????????

edited October 2012 in General Charlton
Last week I made a rare trip to the Valley from here in Leicestershire......I decided to call in and see my old mum in Sidcup first and then drove via Eltham and Well Hall Rd towards Shooters Hill. Today through the post I've received a £130 penalty notice from Transport for London, as on my way up Well Hall Rd, just before the Old Shooters Hill cop shop, I had to stop with my cars rear end in a junction yellow line box (Broadlands).....I stopped because the car in front of me did as the traffic lights must have changed.....I was not blocking the junction as a car turning right can be clearly seen on the picture sent to me and went pass me without any problems!! To say I'm pissed off is an understatement......I was wondering if anyone had come across this before...is it worth appealing.....I've driven that route since the 70's......never had any problems and I think this is daylight robbery!!!! Help greatly appreciated. Will try and upload pictures from the camera over the weekend.
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Comments

  • i got done in lewisham for the same, my back wheels were off the box but there was an overhang. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that can be done.
  • Kap10 said:

    i got done in lewisham for the same, my back wheels were off the box but there was an overhang. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that can be done.

    Well that looks like me screwed then!! What annoys me I wouldn't have stopped for more than a few seconds as the car in front
    moved off again and closed the gap in front.....Mayor Boris short of 'dosh' again!!! FFS
  • unfortunately not. Highway code says that you are not allowed in a box junction unless you can see the ahead is clear. I got done similarly about 5 years ago on the A13 in London - I was in stop start traffic with numerous traffic lights and just as I moved off the traffics lights changed to red, catching me inbetween a set of lights & in a box junction. It was a case of when the music stops..........
  • Always worth appealing. You may not have a leg to stand on though... :0(
  • Be careful though, an unsuccessful appeal might increase the penalty to be paid. Worth double-checking. Conversely, also worth checking if it is a "£130 but £65 if you pay within 10 days" type deal. Would still stick in the throat (money grabbing bar stewards) but less of a hit.
  • edited October 2012
    My wife was caught at same junction a few years back. The date on the photo and the letter didn't match, wrote back to them telling if they couldn't decide what the date the offence happened, she wouldn't be paying. They agreed.

    This site might help

    http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/yellow.htm



    As detailed in the regulations below, the offence is stopping in the box due to the presence of stationary vehicles. Therefore stopping for another reason such as a red light, pedestrians etc is not an offence. The authority must prove there were stationary vehicles in front of the box.

  • My mum got done a year or so back for exactly the same thing in exactly the same spot outside your nicked 2. Absolute piss take. Also got done around the same time for parking in asda car park and shopping in boots.
  • My dad got a fine with back wheels just touching the box, person in front didn't help him. Not sure it was the same junction though. Wrong that there's no discretion and is a clear indication of money making scheme.
  • People i work with have also got stuck in this box and have been fined, don't think you have much of a case to answer, re Golf addick post about the Highway code is correct Also worth mentioning is to stay clear of the bus lane and DO NOT cut in early as there is a camera on the opposite side of the junction focused on the lane. Think it will be £65 within 10 days.
  • So, basically, stay out of the box junction as per the highway code and avoid the 130 quid fine? Cheers - good to know.
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  • Yeah, seems to me that more cameras being sited onto box junctions, easy way to make a few quid.
  • Badger said:

    Yeah, seems to me that more cameras being sited onto box junctions, easy way to make a few quid.

    Or, a good way to punish people for breaking the rules with the hope that they won't do it again.

    It's a bit like speeding cameras. We can all complain about how they raise money but until you have to take a phone call and then tell your wife that her 19 year old brother has been killed in a road traffic accident I think you fail to see the relationship between these 'sneaky' attempts to save lives.

    I'm not getting at you directly RM, nor am I a 'busy body' type but even though I don't like the idea of cameras watching our every move, the box junctions are there for a reason, and 'just over' is over. There has to be a line somewhere. One wheel, a bumper, half a car, all but one wheel, it's irrelevant. If the law (or Highway Code) says don't stop in one then I don't see how one can be cross when one gets photographed in one and is asked to pay a fine for it.

    It does raise money, but my understanding is that there needs to be a good reason (I.e. a suggestion that it will save lives) before a camera can be deployed. If a car blocks a junction and an ambulance is unable to get to someone that needs life saving treatment then a couple of fines seem more than justified in my view.

    I think I'll go and hide now!
  • Sorry you got done for this RM - particularly as vehicles were able to pass you.

    However, so many people have no idea what the yellow boxes are for and every weekend Maidstone comes to a standstill because some selfish bastards decides that a yellow box means nothing and that as long as they're passed the traffic lights he's OK to carry on around the one-way system - when all they do is bring it to a grinding halt.

    Last weekend it was a WPC in a Kent Police Car - boy did I give her some stick.
  • Thanks for all the comments and suggestions...I just want to clear up a couple of things....I was in a queue of slowish moving traffic and was aware of the yellow box, the car in front moved across the box I stopped the right side of it and then the car in front moved forward again, I then went across the box but then the car in front stopped and I had no choice but to stop again, leaving the rear wheels of my car in the yellow box....a few seconds later the car in front moved off and so did I......however if as people say the 'line' needs to be drawn somewhere I'll suck it up and pay within 10 days (yes its reduced to £65), BUT I think that the authorities need to use discretion and have a 'time limit' for sitting on the edge of the box. Lets say for arguments sake I was crossing the box and an emergency vehicle came down Well Hall Rd to turn right into Broadlands.....should I stop and let him cross or carrying on driving for fear of a fine for stopping in the box....i.e I let the emergency vehicle cross in front of me!!
    Anyway thanks for the advice.....I'll pay £65 on Monday....Cheers all RM
  • @kingshilladdick

    Everything you write is true but of course the truth often doesn't tell you everything you need to know. 75% of speed cameras in London have now been switched off because it was eventually agreed that in the vast majority of cases they were purely there to make money and served no legitimate purpose in road safety. Box junctions are different. It's not about safety per se but is more about keeping access for vehicles which could be emergency service vehicles needing to use that junction. The cameras are there to catch unfortunate drivers and make money. There are every day millions of other infringements of the Highway Code that do not attract such attention because they can't easily prove wrong doing and squeeze £130 out of the culprit. It is an extortionate sum of money for such an infringement and perhaps justice would be better served if the owner was to receive a letter on first offence and a penalty subsequently.
  • @kingshilladdick

    It is an extortionate sum of money for such an infringement and perhaps justice would be better served if the owner was to receive a letter on first offence and a penalty subsequently.

    This.

  • I agree with Kings Hill Addick - Maidstone is frequently gridlocked because people don't respect the yellow boxes. The law is quite clear, you don't enter the yellow box unless your exit is clear. We could do with a few of these yellow box cameras in Maidstone.
  • I was fined 90 quid for parking with back wheels touching a restricted area. I was only there 1min whilst I dropped a load of stuff at a charity shop. So much for the big society. Won't make the same mistake again. Will take stuff to dump instead.!''
  • I really think all this bollocks is getting a bit much, I didn't own a car for a number of years and then we brought one last year things have certainly changed alot since I last owned a car (I think that was around 1999-2000). Petrol is very expensive, cameras everywhere, bloody great big 4 wheel tractors all over the place and as for those sodding Audi drivers....
  • I got a £120 one for getting caught in one in Maida Vale about 5 years ago. I've just put it down to experience but even so five years later it still hurts. I was angry with myself more than anything else.
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  • Thanks for all the comments and suggestions...I just want to clear up a couple of things....I was in a queue of slowish moving traffic and was aware of the yellow box, the car in front moved across the box I stopped the right side of it and then the car in front moved forward again, I then went across the box but then the car in front stopped and I had no choice but to stop again, leaving the rear wheels of my car in the yellow box....a few seconds later the car in front moved off and so did I......however if as people say the 'line' needs to be drawn somewhere I'll suck it up and pay within 10 days (yes its reduced to £65), BUT I think that the authorities need to use discretion and have a 'time limit' for sitting on the edge of the box. Lets say for arguments sake I was crossing the box and an emergency vehicle came down Well Hall Rd to turn right into Broadlands.....should I stop and let him cross or carrying on driving for fear of a fine for stopping in the box....i.e I let the emergency vehicle cross in front of me!!
    Anyway thanks for the advice.....I'll pay £65 on Monday....Cheers all RM

    Do you mean Broadwalk?
  • Thanks for all the comments and suggestions...I just want to clear up a couple of things....I was in a queue of slowish moving traffic and was aware of the yellow box, the car in front moved across the box I stopped the right side of it and then the car in front moved forward again, I then went across the box but then the car in front stopped and I had no choice but to stop again, leaving the rear wheels of my car in the yellow box....a few seconds later the car in front moved off and so did I......however if as people say the 'line' needs to be drawn somewhere I'll suck it up and pay within 10 days (yes its reduced to £65), BUT I think that the authorities need to use discretion and have a 'time limit' for sitting on the edge of the box. Lets say for arguments sake I was crossing the box and an emergency vehicle came down Well Hall Rd to turn right into Broadlands.....should I stop and let him cross or carrying on driving for fear of a fine for stopping in the box....i.e I let the emergency vehicle cross in front of me!!
    Anyway thanks for the advice.....I'll pay £65 on Monday....Cheers all RM

    Obviously I did not do this but you could appeal and say that you did not stop completely although slowed to snails pace. Even with the video footage they may not be able to prove it.

    I do agree with KHA that its the rules and however draconian they are we all know or should know what they are. I have always felt a pressure from the car behind me to go through junction, but now I try and wait until the car in front has cleared the box.
  • The film is not actually a 24 fps movie so very hard to tell whether you are creeping forward or not...I personally would contest it. I contest every ticket, 51 tickets, paid 5...there comes a point when the paperwork for them just isnt worth the hassle.
  • The film is not actually a 24 fps movie so very hard to tell whether you are creeping forward or not...I personally would contest it. I contest every ticket, 51 tickets, paid 5...there comes a point when the paperwork for them just isnt worth the hassle.

    You must feel extremely proud of yourself.
  • The film is not actually a 24 fps movie so very hard to tell whether you are creeping forward or not...I personally would contest it. I contest every ticket, 51 tickets, paid 5...there comes a point when the paperwork for them just isnt worth the hassle.

    It's a good thing that some of us play by the rules!

  • @kingshilladdick
    . It is an extortionate sum of money for such an infringement and perhaps justice would be better served if the owner was to receive a letter on first offence and a penalty subsequently.

    Every time footballers are fined tens of thousands of pounds for breaking well understood, published rules there's widespread weeping that it's not meaningful enough. When joe public gets fined a few quid for pushing the rules it's excessive. Interesting.
  • Off_it said:

    The film is not actually a 24 fps movie so very hard to tell whether you are creeping forward or not...I personally would contest it. I contest every ticket, 51 tickets, paid 5...there comes a point when the paperwork for them just isnt worth the hassle.

    You must feel extremely proud of yourself.
    I prefer smug.
  • Box junctions have been around for years - they are there to keep traffic moving. The only time that you can stop in one is when you are turning right.

  • 51 tickets? FIFTY-FUCKING ONE!?!?!? You must drive like an absolute arsehole to get that number of tickets.
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