I had to check with Spankie a while ago that indirect free kicks still exist. So many free-kicks around the box, and penalties, are given for obstruction. What makes it worse is commentators/pundits who clearly don't know the rules. So many times I hear the phrase "he's blocked him off, that's got to be a penalty". Learn the rules! Blocking off is obstruction, which has always been an indirect free-kick. Apparently premiership players, referees, commentators and pundits all need to read the rules of the game!
Brendan_O_Connell: "What is the ruling on that ? I am told just a part of the ball has to be touching the outside of the arc, but I really have no clue."
I thought it was OK if part of the ball was "overhanging" the arc of the corner, therefore making Watford's corner for the first perfectly legitimate. Doesn't take away from the fact that the resulting headed goal deflected off Wilson before going in though...
Yes, that is my understanding too - if you imagine a laser rising from th eouter edge of the arc and that laser would contact the ball - it should be ok. It's a bit like the ball going over the line for a goal. I was acting lino for a school game invoving my son and the ball - quite slowly rolled over the line so that there was grass between the line and where the ball was contacting the ground. But it was equally clear it had not fully crossed the line. After the game I was told in a friendly way I had got it wrong and it amzed me how many people didn't understand the rules.
Part of the ball has to be touching part of the line for it to be in. When the ball goes anywhere near the touchline teams always scream for a throw but invariably not the whole ball has passed the whole of the line.
6 second rule is an unwanted one. Should be more if the keeper takes the mick in holding onto the ball then do him. To religiously count 6 seconds isn't really done, as long as he releases in a reasonable amount of time that should be ok. Agreed, Randy indirect freekicks are dying out! You simply don't see them for anything other than for offside.
Some linos (I'll always call them that) call balls out that only partially go over the line at the Valley. It puzzles me how they can't see it - they must know the rules. I did wonder if they realise that most fans don't know the rules so give it out rather than incur the wrath of th efans, as it is only a throw in after all.
You have to trust your own judgement and stick with it even with players screaming, shouting and suggesting you don't know what you're doing. Trust your judgement and stick with it and communicate to the players it wasn't out as many times as you need to!
I have been obliged to ref in our old Sunday League games, so I know damn well how difficult it is to get it right. The problem in my view is much deeper than the refs. It is in the way pro football is run, and that is where we need to look for the solutions. The first thing is fundamental. We fans are customers, our money pays for the whole show. Football has a duty to customers to ensure that as many decisions as possible are correct - and are seen by the customers to be correct.
If that's accepted - and how can it not be? - ...
Not sure I accept it in quite such a black and white way, and personally I think this obsession with referees getting everything right isn't doing football any favours.
Speaking as a paying customer, my priority isn't that referees get everything right - I want to see them manage games in a way that allows the players to play the best possible football and give me the most entertainment. As a fan I want the referee to give us all the decisions regardless of whether they're right or not, but this thread pays testimony to how much part of football talking about the ref is.
We talk about individual decisions costing clubs millions, but (i) the opportunity for that is pretty much exclusive to the Premiership (ii) it's a nonsense anyway, clubs' fortunes are decided by their performances over a season, not a single refereeing decision.
To my mind the game would be a lot better if players, managers and pundits didn't berate referees at every given opportunity and gave them a bit more room to make mistakes and hopefully to learn from them and become better referees. It's not as if they make their decisions in any way other than honestly.
To this customer, what I want is to see (a) games managed well (b) games refereed fairly and honestly.
The one exception to that is goal line decisions. As the very purpose of the game is to get the ball over the line, if that's been achieved and missed by the officials then where technology can help it should. I see no reason why the wait should be less exciting than waiting for an umpire's decision in tennis or cricket by Hawkeye, provided the game is stopped quickly.
I don't indertsand why goal line technology should be the exception though. Football is not a vehicle for refs to get better at their jobs- we expect them to make the right calls. Of course humans will always make errors, but some make more than others and technology is there that can really make things better. Refs should embrace it as should the rest of the football world.
Because the ultimate aim of the game is to score more goals than the opponent. I think you have to get the simple fact of 'ball crossed line' right if you possibly can. The rest is largely a matter of interpretation.
Yes it is. Whether they are in an offside position or not is a matter of fact, but that doesn't make them offside - there are various criteria and FIFA guidance that the referee and his assistants have to ponder before making a decision.
Watford's first goal was scored from a corner where the ball was not placed within the corner markings, the whole North stand and NE quadrant was screaming at the lino, but he never pulled it up.
What is the ruling on that ? I am told just a part of the ball has to be touching the outside of the arc, but I really have no clue.
I believe that is the case, some of the ball has to be touching the arc. With this particular incident, the whole ball was clearly outside of the arc.
I wasn't - the ball was touching the line of the arc quite clearly, which is why the AR allowed it to be taken.
I can't remember how many time Kinsella took a corner from about a yard out of the corner arc in his time when the AR was on the other side.
Comments
I thought it was OK if part of the ball was "overhanging" the arc of the corner, therefore making Watford's corner for the first perfectly legitimate. Doesn't take away from the fact that the resulting headed goal deflected off Wilson before going in though...
Part of the ball has to be touching part of the line for it to be in. When the ball goes anywhere near the touchline teams always scream for a throw but invariably not the whole ball has passed the whole of the line.
Agreed, Randy indirect freekicks are dying out! You simply don't see them for anything other than for offside.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_17_the_corner_kick_en_47358.pdf
Speaking as a paying customer, my priority isn't that referees get everything right - I want to see them manage games in a way that allows the players to play the best possible football and give me the most entertainment. As a fan I want the referee to give us all the decisions regardless of whether they're right or not, but this thread pays testimony to how much part of football talking about the ref is.
We talk about individual decisions costing clubs millions, but (i) the opportunity for that is pretty much exclusive to the Premiership (ii) it's a nonsense anyway, clubs' fortunes are decided by their performances over a season, not a single refereeing decision.
To my mind the game would be a lot better if players, managers and pundits didn't berate referees at every given opportunity and gave them a bit more room to make mistakes and hopefully to learn from them and become better referees. It's not as if they make their decisions in any way other than honestly.
To this customer, what I want is to see (a) games managed well (b) games refereed fairly and honestly.
The one exception to that is goal line decisions. As the very purpose of the game is to get the ball over the line, if that's been achieved and missed by the officials then where technology can help it should. I see no reason why the wait should be less exciting than waiting for an umpire's decision in tennis or cricket by Hawkeye, provided the game is stopped quickly.
I can't remember how many time Kinsella took a corner from about a yard out of the corner arc in his time when the AR was on the other side.