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Rant about officials

edited October 2012 in General Charlton
I have been disgusted with the standard of officiating this season and it is now getting beyond the ridiculous. You expect some decisions to go for you and some to go against you - but in terms of key goal scoring/producing decisions I can't think of one that has gone our way in 12 games!!! Now -forgetting about performances -good or bad, lets look at our games so far. Birmingham (nothing you could complain about), Leicester (we won the game but ref tried to give them a point by playing a silly amount of injury time and letting a clear foul go that led to a very late chance) - Mind you at this stage we hadn't lost any points because of one of those idiots......yet!

Hull (The first occasion when we lost points- two of them because the officials called a clear onside goal offside). Forest (Another point here - when an admittedly undeserved point should still have come our way when a blatant late handball by a Forest player in their area was ignored, despite being as clear as day). Ok so early days and things will even out but we have lost 4 points, thanks to the men in the middle and are still waiting for some favourable decisons.

Palace (Groan - in a game where the first goal was going to be all important, we got it.....only for officials to again wrongly call offside -only this one was so clear the lino thought it right to personally apologise to Sir Chris afterwards. I reckon that cost us 3). 7 points now but no worries, when things even out, we are going to have a great time. Derby next then (Terribly harsh penalty decision going against us which proved crucial in a 3-2 defeat. Although you could argue that it may have galvanised us so I'll let that point go and stay on 7). Ipswich (A good win but nothing gifted to us), Blackburn (should have had a penalty in that game, but not clear enough to claim the 2 extra points, still nothing given to us though as the penalty we did get was clear cut). Watford (again a decsion going against us when a very harsh foul was given on Cort for their free kick. You could say the sending off was in our favour, but did the ref have any choice- it was the most blatent of dives and seeing as the player was already booked. Had we not gone behind, we might have won that but, I won't claim that point either).

Blackpool (another deserved win where we didn't need to rely on the ref, like so many of our opponents do against us). Barnsley (Frustrating game and performance - but if anybody can tell me that the tackle from behind of Stephens wouldn't be a penalty anywhere elese on the pitch, I won't believe them. Another point possibly, but one I again wont be claiming). So that brings us to Leeds (a blatant foul for their goal - cost us 2 points which have to be claimed).

So with me being generous and not claiming a number of points that I could clearly have done so - we are still 9 points down thanks to the officials. Anything we have got we have had to get off our own backs, but our opponents have been given too many calls. We are either the unluckiest team in the division or refs have to look at themselves. I'm not calling them cheats, but something is influencing them to be generous to our opponents and harsh on us. Would love to know what it is so we can do something about it. Maybe Chrissy could enquire with them? If we had totally fair refs, we would be sitting in 5th place at worse right now. Not biased refs in our favour- just ones that call the big decsisions right!!!
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Comments

  • Although I haven't been to as many games as you I have to agree, and I though the officiating would be so much better than in L1
  • I said the same last night, think we must have used up every ounce of luck we ever had during last season.
  • edited October 2012
    6 points away from 7th position shows exactly how much these decisions can hurt us ... but also how close we still are to a good level in this division
  • Never attribute to malice that which could be explained by incompetence :(
  • Incompetence.

    Referees who can't keep up with play - and often guess their decisions from distance.

  • I totally agree - I've witnessed some real shockers this season, just hope it doesn't end up being the difference between staying up and a return to League 1.
  • Watford (again a decsion going against us when a very harsh foul was given on Cort for their free kick.

    Never attribute to malice that which could be explained by incompetence :(

    What I found disturbing about the Cort 'foul' was how quick Mike Dean gave his decision. It was TOO quick, almost predetermined and totally out of place with the time and manner in which he gave the rest of his decisions.
  • As I've said before, the referee marking system is heavily biased in favour of giving decisions on the slightest hint of a foul. You won't get marked down for giving a wrong decision unless it is impossible to argue it was a correct decision, so the lightest contact given as a foul, or even a red card, won't result in the ref being marked down as long as any form of argument for why they were correct can be made. However, not giving decisions results in the ref being marked down every time. So if the ref is 40 yards away and thinks there may have been a foul they are always better off giving it, that ensures they won't be marked down. It's why when two players jump for a ball, 9 times out of 10 the ref will give a foul, there was contact, so there may have been a foul, better safe than sorry, blow the whistle, avoid being marked down for missing a foul.
  • My West Ham supporting bro was at the Barnsley game on saturday, he watches almost all the prem Sky games. He could not believe how bad the ref was. I explained that we have had some stinkers this season, but League 1 was even worse.
    The thing is its not difficult to get the basic decisions correct.
  • Said this after the Barnsley game if they can't get the obvious right what hope you got
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  • I thought the Cort foul was fairly clearcut. I suspect we've had a few free kicks that were soft as well, I remember one on Saturday. That Watford scored, and we haven't scored from direct free kicks isn't the fault of the referee.

    Incidentally, Watford had 2 players sent off last night, how many sendings off is that this season?
  • At least 4. 2 last night, Forrestieri against us and one against Posh the other week.
  • Plaaayer said:

    I said the same last night, think we must have used up every ounce of luck we ever had during last season.

    Exactly what Mrs. Algarve said...

  • Watford have had 4 red cards but the joke sending off for their striker for his 'stamp' on Nicky Bailey was overturned..........so only 3 really.
  • edited October 2012
    Of course I didn't count any point/s we could have got against Watford in my calculation - I agree you get some of those free kicks and some go the other way. Whilst my heart says the tackle the Barnsley player made on Stephens in the box was an excellent one - the rules clearly state it is a foul. The rules are wrong IMO but the ref surely has to abide by them, or doesn't it apply in the penalty area? I didn't claim the point for that either.

    Anything you can pick a hole in I didn't claim, but can somebody give examples where we have benefited from a wrong call? Good luck with that one!
  • What you did manage to omit was every other club's fans doing exaclty the same thing as you and claiming lost points due to perceived officials' mistakes. We are not the only club to have had leads and draws taken from us by supposed injustices by the men in black. We have got the rough end of the stick so far this season granted but then again every fan thinks they've lost points and should be higher. We're no different and haven't been singled out. At some point the rub of the green will turn.
  • Spankie, as a ref yourself, do you think actual standard of refereeing has got worse? is the game faster so harder to keep up with? or is it because there are cameras everywhere the decisions are highlighted more?
  • Watford have had 4 red cards but the joke sending off for their striker for his 'stamp' on Nicky Bailey was overturned..........so only 3 really.

    Well if you have to play with 10 men, you've been unfairly punished, even if the decision is overturned afterwards. There's no comeback for the game when the incident happened!
  • I don't doubt that - some may have had things go for them and some against to varying degrees. My point was that we haven't had anything go for us and have had a number of things (that have led to crucial goals) go against us. Some more clear cut, some you just shrug your shoulders over as part of the game.

    I hope th erub of th egreen does turn - but I can't imagine there has been an unluckier team than us in the division this season. It is reasonable to speculate whether there may be some other influences on refs - I'm not calling them cheats.

    What goes through a refs mind when the Forest player handles the ball in the area in front of you at the City Ground - what causes him to ignore it when he has seen it. Likewise, what causes him to ignore an illegal tackle in the area at our last home match - again -he knows the rules but choses not to see it. I want to know ahy that is. Why does the ref play an additional 3 minutes to the injury time he has signalled against Leicester - when there were no stoppages during this period- then at the end of those ignore the most blatant of fouls that could have led to a goal?

    The decisions that are not seen like Palace and Hull, you can have a bit more understanding of- and can be simply explained by the fact that the standard of officiating is crap at this level (disapointingly as I was expecting an improvement). But until I see things evening out a bit, I want to know whay refs are making some of the calls against us that they are?
  • Only been twice this season so hard to know about individual Charlton incidents. The Palace offside whilst desperately disappointing was an impossible decision as the replay showed the player playing BWP was being obscured completely by BWP himself. Only one decision to give as from the lino's pov he looked miles off. The gutting thing is in 2012 we cannot reverse it on the back of a quick video replay. 5 second delay. Decision reversed as lino cannot possibly see defender playing BWP onside - Charlton 1-0 up.
    Certainly games and situations are replayed to death during the game, in the aftermath of the games and even the next day (think Sunday Supplement and Goals On Sunday) and the money in the game dictates every single decision has to be correct becuase a hell of a lot of money depends on a team staying up, going down or going up and that could mean the difference between financial security or administration.
    The game is fast no doubt about that. I feel the standard hasn't dropped, we've just had a bit of bad luck. Mistakes will be made as the human element of the game (players and managers make numerous mistakes) and we are still trying to find our feet in this division. The refs do the best they can and have committed a huge part of their lives (putting their jobs and family second) to get to be a football league referee. The commitment they have to give to the FA, to their fitness, to their knowledge and to their game is awe-inspiring. They just need help from video replays/technology. Heaven knows why the 4th official cannot help the referee then the decision everyone wants - the correct one is used. It's been used and been successful in cricket, rugby and tennis so why not football? Why not just trial it?
    As I've said before it's 2012 and the game seems about as technologically advanced as it was in 1972.
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  • I can agree with some of what you say Muttley, like our "goal" against Palace and a couple of penalty shouts, but can you honestly say that if leeds hadn't had scored from that opportunity last night then we would have won 1-0 ? I doubt it. Leeds may have scored from another attack and if not we may have settled for a 0-0 draw instead of having to get a goal back. Also, if we had got a penalty late on against Barnsley ( foul on Solly, not Stephens) who says we would have scored ?? Football is full of ifs & maybes and that it why it is the game it is.............

    not having been to every game I can't really comment on every point won or lost, but by what I have seen & heard I would say that we probably should have another 2 or 3 points.
  • edited October 2012
    You can't but my points still stand I think. All I want is for somebody to - rather than tell me that it will all even out and things go for you and against you - reassure me by reminding me of times this season we have benefitted from an error by officials. I have given too long a list of where we have lost out to them - I'm only asking for one or two. Shouldn't be too much to ask for in 12 games should it?
  • I am new to this sight, although have been reading it for the past couple of months. I have to agree that the standard of reffing this season is dreadful ! with them not even being able to get the simple decisions right. In most games we see now days , how many times do we see foul throws, not being pulled up on ? also what about where the throw is actually taken from ? in some cases players nick 20 yards ? I know this is the same for all teams, if you can get away with it etc... but it's not difficult is it. Because we've all become so used to it, no one complains.
  • edited October 2012
    I agree with Spankie's view - that the time has come for video technology monitored by the 4th official.


    With the officials wired up to each other, all it needs is for the 4th official to whisper in the ref's ear, "Penalty" or "Goal offside" or whatever.

    It's only advice - the ref would still have the final say.
  • And when foul throws are picked up on refs are called busy and they should let the game flow. I do agree with you though, throw ins should be executed correctly by both team. Fans only want them turned round if their team benefits from it. If it goes against your team vast amounts of abuse usually breaks loose.
  • edited October 2012
    The standard of refereeing in this country is poor. From the Premier League right down to the local leagues (Not park football, but leagues like the Ryman League and the Kent League).

    Maybe we shouldn't be blaming the officials, but the people in charge. The match officials need more structure, more coaching and more help in general. A lot of them have never played the game. They know the laws very well, but they need to know what players and fans expect too.

    To put it into perspective Saudi Arabia have more match officials on the FIFA list than England. That tells a story in itself.
  • but can somebody give examples where we have benefited from a wrong call? Good luck with that one!

    cant remember who it was against but wilson could've been sent off for a stamp on a player. it happened in front of the east stand towards the end of the match. could've been watford.
  • The standard of refereeing in this country is poor. From the Premier League right down to the local leagues (Not park football, but leagues like the Ryman League and the Kent League).

    Maybe we shouldn't be blaming the officials, but the people in charge. The match officials need more structure, more coaching and more help in general. A lot of them have never played the game. They know the laws very well, but they need to know what players and fans expect too.

    To put it into perspective Saudi Arabia have more match officials on the FIFA list than England. That tells a story in itself.

    Oi, I ref in the Kent League and line on the Ryman!!! ;-)
  • but can somebody give examples where we have benefited from a wrong call? Good luck with that one!


    cant remember who it was against but wilson could've been sent off for a stamp on a player. it happened in front of the east stand towards the end of the match. could've been watford.
    Watford match ...... the opponent play acted, trying to get Wilson sent off.

  • Interesting point. I do think that refs letting things go and letting the game flow causes a gradual erosion of standards. The number of foul throws that are overlooked and the number of times keepers hang onto the ball for too long mean that those things are now seen as being ok.
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