The thing I find really annoying is when you go through during the free period (10pm to 6am) you still have to stop and wait of the barrier. It's like they think we're all stupid and believe their blatant lie about the tolls not causing queues, but instead controlling the flow of traffic, and that if we were allowed to sail through the barriers during the free period we'd suddenly twig it's a lie.
That's probably more a safety issue - they don't want HGVs hurtling through the (narrow) barriers at 60mph+
Would be simple enough to set up speed camera at the tolls, set to 10 or 20 mph. They could then actually make some money during the free period, win/win situation.
I'm only guessing here, but I expect the safety issue might be the fact that there are a dozen or so lanes that reduce into three or four over a very short distance, (plus the need to get to the left quickly if you're using the first exit), and vehicles travelling through the gates at any significant (not necessarily excessive) speed are, literally, a car crash waiting to happen.
The thing I find really annoying is when you go through during the free period (10pm to 6am) you still have to stop and wait of the barrier. It's like they think we're all stupid and believe their blatant lie about the tolls not causing queues, but instead controlling the flow of traffic, and that if we were allowed to sail through the barriers during the free period we'd suddenly twig it's a lie.
That's probably more a safety issue - they don't want HGVs hurtling through the (narrow) barriers at 60mph+
Would be simple enough to set up speed camera at the tolls, set to 10 or 20 mph. They could then actually make some money during the free period, win/win situation.
I'm only guessing here, but I expect the safety issue might be the fact that there are a dozen or so lanes that reduce into three or four over a very short distance, (plus the need to get to the left quickly if you're using the first exit), and vehicles travelling through the gates at any significant (not necessarily excessive) speed are, literally, a car crash waiting to happen.
Not only that, when the barriers come down at 6am they could come down on a car.
There are plenty of ways around all these issues. Only have 4 barriers operating during the free period, then it's 4 lanes to 4 barriers to 4 lanes, then it'd act just like a width restricter, slowing the traffic without stopping it. As for barriers coming down on cars, it's trivial to ensure the area is clear before lowering the barrier, whether it's operated by staff, or by a computer using motion sensors, etc.
The way it currently operates, both whilst free, and whilst in full operation, is deeply inefficient, as the queues back past the A2 every day show. If you've ever been abroad you'll know that those with the eqiuvelant of the Dart Tag don't have to stop at tolls, they just slow down sufficiently for the computers to pick them up.
As mentioned above, for vehicles with UK number plates there should be no need to stop, just record the number plate and bill accordingly.
There are so many solutions that would really improve life for drivers and local residents (the Dartford tunnel approach has one of the highest concentrations of traffic pollution in Europe, and the Thames Valley as a whole has an astronomically high asthma rate).
... As for barriers coming down on cars, it's trivial to ensure the area is clear before lowering the barrier, whether it's operated by staff, or by a computer using motion sensors, etc...
All at extra cost, when they can just leave it as it is for nothing.....
... As for barriers coming down on cars, it's trivial to ensure the area is clear before lowering the barrier, whether it's operated by staff, or by a computer using motion sensors, etc...
All at extra cost, when they can just leave it as it is for nothing.....
....also, my point was that Dartford Crossing is a busy place at 6am on a week-day morning with most drivers trying to beat the clock and get a free crossing. At what point would a motion sensor be able to stop a car, going around 30-40 mph, to allow the barriers to come down safely? As has already been pointed out, with it being a bottle neck, it would be a pile-up waiting to happen. Imo
Really really simple solution, you put traffic lights at each barrier (oh, they already have those!) and then set them to red at 6am. Anybody going through gets done just as they would if they jumped a red light. As I said, trivial to sort out if there was any sort of will to improve things.
Number plate recognition is the only feasible answer really. That way traffic doesn't have to slow (to either a complete stop, or to a low enough speed for radio tag to be scanned), you'd just have 4 lanes of traffic and there would be no hold up at all. The benefits would be immediate, both to drivers and the surrounding areas.
I can't think of a single reason why they don't do this. Yes it has an initial cost, but it should pay for itself very quickly with reduced staffing costs and greater through-put (and therefore revenues).
The biggest single advantage I can see for the tolls, at least on the Kent side, is that if there is an incident in the tunnel you can immediately stop more vehicles going in, but it would be easy enough to set up a lights system I'm sure.
Number plate recognition is the only feasible answer really. That way traffic doesn't have to slow (to either a complete stop, or to a low enough speed for radio tag to be scanned), you'd just have 4 lanes of traffic and there would be no hold up at all. The benefits would be immediate, both to drivers and the surrounding areas.
I can't think of a single reason why they don't do this. Yes it has an initial cost, but it should pay for itself very quickly with reduced staffing costs and greater through-put (and therefore revenues).
Maybe they caould put the price up to pay for the initial cost. I'm sure they'd bring the price back down once they recouped that amount...
The toll is a difficult issue due to the different economic circumstances of the two counties. £2 is nothing to the affluent populace of God own county of Essex, but to the impoverished downtroden masses of Kent, £2 must be a whole days worth of benefit.
On behalf of the people of Kent (the garden of England), I have one thing to say to you @smudge7946............
Maybe they caould put the price up to pay for the initial cost. I'm sure they'd bring the price back down once they recouped that amount...
Don't think with the Dartford crossing record the price would come down, how many times have they promised to do away totally with the tolls after something has been paid for, all debts have been cleared and we are still paying and the price is still going up.
Maybe they caould put the price up to pay for the initial cost. I'm sure they'd bring the price back down once they recouped that amount...
Don't think with the Dartford crossing record the price would come down, how many times have they promised to do away totally with the tolls after something has been paid for, all debts have been cleared and we are still paying and the price is still going up.
You make it sounds trivial and easy to remedy agreed.
The idea of number plate recognition would be a better solution imo, it seems to work okay in London........
Read somewhere that in the year after the intro of congestion charges, the re-registering of foreign number plated cars decreased by more than 50% in the London area, as these get away with it... As it is close to Dover, bet the losses would be much higher if all these foreign lorries and cars cross... Who'll cover the losses then? Dart tag or pay thru your noses!
You make it sounds trivial and easy to remedy agreed.
The idea of number plate recognition would be a better solution imo, it seems to work okay in London........
Read somewhere that in the year after the intro of congestion charges, the re-registering of foreign number plated cars decreased by more than 50% in the London area, as these get away with it... As it is close to Dover, bet the losses would be much higher if all these foreign lorries and cars cross... Who'll cover the losses then? Dart tag or pay thru your noses!
Yeah I agree, but I think that this is another issue. There should be a system of temporarily registering a foreign vehicle in other countries so they pay the same tolls, road tax etc. Otherwise vehicles (including freight) with foreign number plates should only be allowed in another country for a maximum of 4 months in every 12. This would also maybe go towards stopping European haulage firms under-cutting British firms (mainly in the south of England).
Number plate recognition is the only feasible answer really. That way traffic doesn't have to slow (to either a complete stop, or to a low enough speed for radio tag to be scanned), you'd just have 4 lanes of traffic and there would be no hold up at all.
Beware when getting there before 6.00am for a free trip. They close off all the auto tolls, to create a queue and once it's pay time they open them up.
Yes, the government trying to recoup some of the debts run up by the last set of plums that were running the country. Whatever next? Do you want them to spend, spend spend?
I must admit that I have a giggle when people quote 'sources' around CAFC, but -100% hand on heart- I genuinely have a very close source that made it very clear to me that the day the new cabinet 'sat down at their desks' so to speak, Osbourne and co almost fainted in shock at the total mess that was left behind by the last lot. Far far worse than they probably realised, and it is fair to say that Labour probably were delighted they lost the election to allow someone else to take the fall for clearing up their mess. And no, it wasnt as simple as saying the recession was a global event etc etc etc.
Anyway, back to the tunnel. I dont drive to work, but my experience says that 50p a day increae (the first rise in 4 years) isnt really a great deal to get upset about, but I dont have first hand knowledge of how well run the bridge / tunnel is?
IMHO your first two paragraphs are not relevant. The claimed reasons for keeping the toll have nothing to do with recouping debts. The reasons cited over many years have been fairly fluid - originally it was to be dropped when the bridge had been paid for, then (under a Labour govt I believe) it was decided that the toll was a "congestion charge" (I believe that's still used as an excuse), now they're saying it's to pay for a new crossing.
Didn't the current lot sell the bridge off, meaning it is now in private hands and therefore at least a part of the toll money is going into their pockets?
Of course the toll booths are a major cause of congestion. The problem is that it raises so much money - any Government isn't going to give it up.
Comments
The way it currently operates, both whilst free, and whilst in full operation, is deeply inefficient, as the queues back past the A2 every day show. If you've ever been abroad you'll know that those with the eqiuvelant of the Dart Tag don't have to stop at tolls, they just slow down sufficiently for the computers to pick them up.
As mentioned above, for vehicles with UK number plates there should be no need to stop, just record the number plate and bill accordingly.
There are so many solutions that would really improve life for drivers and local residents (the Dartford tunnel approach has one of the highest concentrations of traffic pollution in Europe, and the Thames Valley as a whole has an astronomically high asthma rate).
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/34183
The idea of number plate recognition would be a better solution imo, it seems to work okay in London........
I can't think of a single reason why they don't do this. Yes it has an initial cost, but it should pay for itself very quickly with reduced staffing costs and greater through-put (and therefore revenues).
The biggest single advantage I can see for the tolls, at least on the Kent side, is that if there is an incident in the tunnel you can immediately stop more vehicles going in, but it would be easy enough to set up a lights system I'm sure.
Tilbury!
; )
Maybe they caould put the price up to pay for the initial cost. I'm sure they'd bring the price back down once they recouped that amount...
Don't think with the Dartford crossing record the price would come down, how many times have they promised to do away totally with the tolls after something has been paid for, all debts have been cleared and we are still paying and the price is still going up.