I know looooooads of Chinese people have headed over there for uni with the long-term aim of immigration for them and their parents
Oddly - to a western mind - it is ALWAYS the parents that have made this decision. They basically present their 18 year olds with a 6 year plan that is going to happen to their life
Recently one of them told me something about it being easier to start work, em/immigrate and then go back to studying... But i wasnt paying too much attention
not sure how easy it is getting into Canada, it's a points based system - don't think you need a definite job lined up but the pay off for that is that with the points threshold being so high, you'll only qualify if you have a trade or skill that is in demand....
once you get here, jobs (in Alberta & the West in general) are relatively easy to come by especially if you want to work in the mining & resources sector
it's an expensive country though, and you have to be prepared for brutal winters that make what you are going through in the UK at the moment look like a walk in the park
Canada has the `Full, come back later' signs up at the moment.
s'funny because our population is growing rapidly (the fastest growth amongst all of the G8 nations), mainly due to immigration...
I don't know what the picture is like across the whole of Canada, but the economy in the Western and Prairie provinces is still booming (at least relative to the shitty state it is in many places worldwide) and I think they're still pretty happy to accept immigrants. I would say at least 2/3 of the people I've met in Edmonton are from somewhere other than Edmonton, be that abroad or elsewhere in Canada.
James - me too absolutely, live in a 3 bed house near stansted airport, 3 kids so need a 4 bed house, but everything in the UK is just going up (petrol, utlities etc etc) and my wages are simply not catching up. I work for an investment bank in Canary Wharf, so travel horrible, and have applied to work in our office in Tampa, Florida. Basically I should be getting my wages exchanged in dollars (rate 1.60 dollars for £1), and our friends on facebook out there already state that the cost of living is far cheaper - petrol about 40p a litre, houses ( 4 bed from £83,000 in a nice community!!). A great lifestyle, usual temps in winter 18-24 C - beautiful! Lots for families...if you have one. Luckily my work will arrange and pay for the Visa. Can't wait to get out there!
Similar position to you SuperClive - work in CW for an Investment Bank and my gf is a teacher. I'm only 25 so time on my side. We only have 1 child but mortgage and bills mean little left over at end of month. Long hours, grim weather - typical all work no play lifestyle lots of us are no fed up with.
Working and living overseas is absolutely blinding... One of the coolest and best things you can do IMHO...
Ive lived in Spain and Denmark before, although they were both when I was young(19-21) and were all about getting people into SPanish bars and picking peas on a farm in Denmark ... Did a bit of travel and then jumped ship to OZ...
That waas 8 yrs ago.. at that time you were allowed a 1 yr working holiday visa... which was easy to get jsut say youve got a few grand and wont work at the same place for more than 3 months.. once here you can bascially do what you want, in my experience...
In comparison to London its an easy life, less people, more laid back life personally I LOVE Melbourne, its got everything you want and theres hardly anyone here... 3 hrs and your on the great ocean road ... Set up my own business and now work from home in a market place that is not really that compettve... would I have been able to do that in London, probably not...
I do miss Charlton and my mates and CURRYS (they havnt got a scooby over here) but overall its the best decision Ive made....
Australia will probably be my base for the rest of my life...
And nothing beats the buzz of uncertainty as the wheels hit the tarmac in somewhere completely new, with a fistful of cash in your hand...
Coming to The States is difficult but not impossible. If you have a skill that is in short supply here, and you can get an employer to go through the difficulties and paperwork of "sponsorship", it can be done. It can take a couple of years, though. I came here as a car mechanic a long time ago. Employers don't treat employees very well, and time off from work is in short supply. I have my own one-man business now, which allows me more time freedom than I ever had before.
And nothing beats the buzz of uncertainty as the wheels hit the tarmac in somewhere completely new, with a fistful of cash in your hand...
One million percent agree with you Mascot, last April landing in Atlanta with a new job in a new company in a country where I knew literally no one....not knowing where I was going to live and with just my girlfriend and 2 suitcases of clothes.........its a feeling I will never ever forget!
I would say to anyone that if you get the chance - do it!
I have spent the last 5yrs out of the UK. The first 3yrs were in the middle east in Kuwait and the last two in Singapore.
Kuwait was a hard place to live mainly as it was a dry country. Its not the fact you don't have alcohol more you don't have anywhere to really meet people. Coffee shops are not the same.
Of course the pros are you don't pay tax, petrol is less than 10p a litre, Cars are cheap and housing tends to be very good.
Cons - well if you love pork that can be a killer, traffic, Ramadan, oppressive heat and the locals driving habits.
Singapore is a great place to live but seriously expensive, cars are 3 or 4 times the price in the UK, housing is tiny and expensive, Alcohol is horrendous at 6gbp a bottle of beer and a litre of Vodka in the supermarket would set you back 40gbp!!
However I love the place, it is so safe for the family, food is superb, shopping is easy and relatively low tax.
The one thing I struggle with is time, every day is the same here, 32c sunny and a bit of rain maybe. the days and weeks just merge into one, before you know it you have done another six months.
Im in my second spell here in Oz. First time was hard work, as I was alone and knew nobody, but within two years had a whole new bunch of friends and loved it. Second time around and I have to say things have changed here a lot...awful exchange rate...we get $1.48 for the £1...whereas I was used to $2.50+ to the £1. Cars are ridiculously expensive....its often cheaper to buy a car from a dealer. Petrol is on the rise...Now $1.50 a litre ( I was used to $0.80c) Housing is more expensive than the UK,the area Im in is very Yuppy like nowadays, the older generation have passed on...lots of Chelsea tractorites with noses stuck in the air.... shopping is very expensive.....the driving here is awful, people seem oblivious to other road users...speed cameras and speed traps everywhere and the limits here so much lower than the UK.....transport infrastructure is awful...no high speed trains here, its just a dream. TV is utter shite unless you have satellite.....even going to football (soccer) is a sterile affair and to be honest, I dont even bother going anymore...tried the other so called codes too. All in all its not quite the dream location I once thought it was.....I do miss home, for all its woes and have no doubts at all where I really belong. Oh and the weather here this summer......utter pants, Im just waiting for the next Aussie to crack a joke about English weather :-)
For young families and career minded people, come and give it a go...cant think of a better place to bring up your kids if you have a solid skill behind you, but for me at 52...its a different ball park Im afraid. Oh, yes the beaches are lovely....but you get a bit blase when you see them everyday...lol
Oh and yes, pay here can be better than the UK in some jobs...especially for younger kids...$14 to $20 dollars per hour, but offset against a much higher day to day living cost...this is based in Sydney of course. A basic cheap flat will set you back at least $300 a week, house share around the $200 mark.
Building trades down in Melbourne and in some cases here in Sydney are now getting $50 to $60 an hour....but compare that with the GC and $30 is a very good rate, and its still as expensive to rent/buy there as anywhere else. The forecast is for the economy here to show a downturn, but it wont amount to much. The mining boom hasnt bust and shows no signs of doing so, and whilst Interest rates here are so much higher than the UK and US I dont really see a decrease in the value of the dollar in the short to medium term either.
I would recommend anyone who doesnt already a particular skill set to look at mining as a career. The life can be a bit solitary but the money is very good. Australia is crying out for people in this field, plus with a bit of experience the whole of Asia opens up to you. Mongolia is going through a mining boom, Vietnam (coal), Philippines (gold) China all need people in this field. On of my specialties is mining insurance and some of the projections for the next 20yrs are massive.
But in one industry, at least, the candidate is still king – mining. The sector's boom on the back of rising commodity prices has led to a massive shortage of staff, so that barely a trading update goes by without the issue being raised.
While it represents a major headache for employers trying to ramp up production or develop new projects, it signals a bonanza for workers in the sector who are enjoying soaring salaries as companies compete to attract them.
Over the past five years, the average employee at the "big four" mining giants of BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Anglo American and Xstrata has received an additional 211pc of his or her salary, according to Deutsche Bank analysts: "In other words, the average employee has received just over two years' additional pay on top of what would have been received had salaries remained flat on 2005 levels."
Nowhere is the phenomenon more evident than in Australia, where the scarcity of workers to feed Asian demand for commodities has not been helped by tight restrictions on immigration. Even truck drivers are now getting paid salaries of A$150,000 to A$180,000 (£96,000 to £116,000) and they can be trained up from scratch. The more skilled professionals whose experience commands a premium – mining engineers, resource geologists – are in even tighter supply.
Living in the Outback's dusty mining towns isn't easy: a report by Rio Tinto on life in Western Australia's Pilbara region, one of the world's main sources of iron ore, identified one group of workers as the "two-year" people, those who can "generally survive one Pilbara summer and two winters before leaving the region".
But the exorbitant wages on offer have in recent years seen more than 100,000 Australians flock to the mining towns. Many work as so-called FIFOs, who "Fly In and Fly Out" for their jobs, often on 7-7-7 rosters of seven days on, seven nights on, before flying home for seven days off.
Sherona Selkirk, a 31-year-old "FIFO" truck driver at one mine in Western Australia, applied for a job earlier this year without any previous experience. After a fortnight of training, she started 12-hour shifts in a truck carrying iron ore.
"It has its good points such as the money but it's tough going and they make you work hard for it,'' she told a local newspaper. "I wouldn't say it's physically hard work – the cabin is air-conditioned and I can listen to music – but the hours are very long and there's a lot of responsibility as I'm in charge of a A$4m vehicle."
Like many such workers, Ms Selkirk said she did not intend to stay in the job forever. But the lure is strong, with a recent survey by Australia's Commonwealth Bank showing that the blue-collar workforce in some parts of Western Australia enjoys wages 62pc higher than the national average.
Such is the scale of the discrepancy between mining wages and other jobs that it is warping the local economies of these outposts. In the muggy coastal mining town of Karratha, where the rents just lag those on the Sydney waterfront, the housing shortage has forced some non-mining workers to live in cars and shipping containers.
"Their boom has been unbelievable, it's accelerated dramatically in 18 months," said Nick Eastwood, senior consultant at UK mining recruitment agency Hunter Personnel. "Salaries have increased dramatically over there, which means many, many expats are returning to Australia – leaving a void in other places, be it Africa, Kazakhstan or elsewhere."
The labour shortage is by no means confined to Australia. Mines all around the world are fighting hard to attract the same pool of skilled industry veterans with international experience.
Australia was just among the first to face the problem, as it saw investment return following the global crisis, say industry watchers.
According to Ernst & Young's mining team, the skills shortage is now the industry's second-biggest business risk after resource nationalism – moves by governments to enjoy a greater slice of mining profits – and it is a problem which is not going away.
"We believe that it [the shortage] may become a bigger risk in both developed and developing countries as we move into 2012," E&Y warned in a recent report.
In Canada, officials now project a labour shortfall of up to 90,000 workers by 2017. In Peru, the industry estimates it will need to add 30,000 positions this decade.
Part of the issue is the cyclical nature of the industry. Few clamoured to join when it was in downturn mode. Some 15 to 20 years ago, many of the majors stopped their graduate trainee schemes, which saw universities closing their mining engineering schools in turn.
So what can companies do to keep costs low? As they dig away in ever more remote regions, as existing mines come to the end of their lives, there is little sign that recruitment will get any easier or cheaper.
There is a lot of talk about the industry's move towards automation. For example, Rio Tinto's iron ore mines in the Pilbara will soon boast 150 driverless trucks, the largest fleet in the world, controlled by workers in its Perth operations centre more than 1,500km away.
But automation is not so much about cutting employee numbers as improving safety and efficiency. While you might not have someone physically in the driving seat, you still need someone to wiggle a joystick – although staff should be easier to retain in a cosmopolitan city than in the back of beyond.
Many believe that, instead of relying on higher salaries to keep themselves staffed, mining companies will increasingly have to invest in in-house training schemes and work with universities to offer industry-specific courses.
Companies are also lobbying governments to relax rules on letting in foreign workers, and adapting working routines to attract staff from outside their traditional demographic, such as promoting job-share roles to bring in more working mothers. But this will all take time.
Meanwhile, the industry frets that the staff shortages will delay projects and keep pushing up costs.
Bad news for the bosses but for the staff it's nice work –although tough – if you can get it.
For those thinking about Australia, you need to earn about 2.2-2.5 Aussie dollars to have roughly the same spending power as earning 1 British pound. So if you are earning GBP40K in the UK you need around 90-100K Aussie to have a similar standard of living.
@Oakster, do you consider yourself permanently settled there, or are you likely to return to England?
Not sure Lookie, we have pretty decent lifestyle out here - we really love where we live, but it's hard to think in terms of never going back to England.......I guess as my kids grow up they will become deeply attached to this country (patriotism is drilled into them much more than back home), that may make it harder to break the ties & head home.....
Last time I was back I was deeply struck by how small & congested the South East, I have become used to a 100-200 mile drive as being a local jaunt over here!!!
For those thinking about Australia, you need to earn about 2.2-2.5 Aussie dollars to have roughly the same spending power as earning 1 British pound. So if you are earning GBP40K in the UK you need around 90-100K Aussie to have a similar standard of living.
I have no standard of livin here in the uk, so hostels and $15 PH is great for me :-)
Tel - how do you go about starting the process to move to Oz. Have googled it and there are so many different websites. Anyone got one they can recommend?
Ideally I'd like to sit down with a consultant and take through the entire process from start to finish e.g. which city, jobs, housing, schools etc
Comments
Oddly - to a western mind - it is ALWAYS the parents that have made this decision. They basically present their 18 year olds with a 6 year plan that is going to happen to their life
Recently one of them told me something about it being easier to start work, em/immigrate and then go back to studying... But i wasnt paying too much attention
Good luck.
Ive lived in Spain and Denmark before, although they were both when I was young(19-21) and were all about getting people into SPanish bars and picking peas on a farm in Denmark ... Did a bit of travel and then jumped ship to OZ...
That waas 8 yrs ago.. at that time you were allowed a 1 yr working holiday visa... which was easy to get jsut say youve got a few grand and wont work at the same place for more than 3 months.. once here you can bascially do what you want, in my experience...
In comparison to London its an easy life, less people, more laid back life personally I LOVE Melbourne, its got everything you want and theres hardly anyone here... 3 hrs and your on the great ocean road ... Set up my own business and now work from home in a market place that is not really that compettve... would I have been able to do that in London, probably not...
I do miss Charlton and my mates and CURRYS (they havnt got a scooby over here) but overall its the best decision Ive made....
Australia will probably be my base for the rest of my life...
And nothing beats the buzz of uncertainty as the wheels hit the tarmac in somewhere completely new, with a fistful of cash in your hand...
I would say to anyone that if you get the chance - do it!
Kuwait was a hard place to live mainly as it was a dry country. Its not the fact you don't have alcohol more you don't have anywhere to really meet people. Coffee shops are not the same.
Of course the pros are you don't pay tax, petrol is less than 10p a litre, Cars are cheap and housing tends to be very good.
Cons - well if you love pork that can be a killer, traffic, Ramadan, oppressive heat and the locals driving habits.
Singapore is a great place to live but seriously expensive, cars are 3 or 4 times the price in the UK, housing is tiny and expensive, Alcohol is horrendous at 6gbp a bottle of beer and a litre of Vodka in the supermarket would set you back 40gbp!!
However I love the place, it is so safe for the family, food is superb, shopping is easy and relatively low tax.
The one thing I struggle with is time, every day is the same here, 32c sunny and a bit of rain maybe. the days and weeks just merge into one, before you know it you have done another six months.
For young families and career minded people, come and give it a go...cant think of a better place to bring up your kids if you have a solid skill behind you, but for me at 52...its a different ball park Im afraid. Oh, yes the beaches are lovely....but you get a bit blase when you see them everyday...lol
Building trades down in Melbourne and in some cases here in Sydney are now getting $50 to $60 an hour....but compare that with the GC and $30 is a very good rate, and its still as expensive to rent/buy there as anywhere else. The forecast is for the economy here to show a downturn, but it wont amount to much. The mining boom hasnt bust and shows no signs of doing so, and whilst Interest rates here are so much higher than the UK and US I dont really see a decrease in the value of the dollar in the short to medium term either.
On of my specialties is mining insurance and some of the projections for the next 20yrs are massive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/8979101/Boom-time-for-workers-at-the-mining-giants.html
But in one industry, at least, the candidate is still king – mining. The sector's boom on the back of rising commodity prices has led to a massive shortage of staff, so that barely a trading update goes by without the issue being raised.
While it represents a major headache for employers trying to ramp up production or develop new projects, it signals a bonanza for workers in the sector who are enjoying soaring salaries as companies compete to attract them.
Over the past five years, the average employee at the "big four" mining giants of BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Anglo American and Xstrata has received an additional 211pc of his or her salary, according to Deutsche Bank analysts: "In other words, the average employee has received just over two years' additional pay on top of what would have been received had salaries remained flat on 2005 levels."
Nowhere is the phenomenon more evident than in Australia, where the scarcity of workers to feed Asian demand for commodities has not been helped by tight restrictions on immigration. Even truck drivers are now getting paid salaries of A$150,000 to A$180,000 (£96,000 to £116,000) and they can be trained up from scratch. The more skilled professionals whose experience commands a premium – mining engineers, resource geologists – are in even tighter supply.
Living in the Outback's dusty mining towns isn't easy: a report by Rio Tinto on life in Western Australia's Pilbara region, one of the world's main sources of iron ore, identified one group of workers as the "two-year" people, those who can "generally survive one Pilbara summer and two winters before leaving the region".
But the exorbitant wages on offer have in recent years seen more than 100,000 Australians flock to the mining towns. Many work as so-called FIFOs, who "Fly In and Fly Out" for their jobs, often on 7-7-7 rosters of seven days on, seven nights on, before flying home for seven days off.
Sherona Selkirk, a 31-year-old "FIFO" truck driver at one mine in Western Australia, applied for a job earlier this year without any previous experience. After a fortnight of training, she started 12-hour shifts in a truck carrying iron ore.
"It has its good points such as the money but it's tough going and they make you work hard for it,'' she told a local newspaper. "I wouldn't say it's physically hard work – the cabin is air-conditioned and I can listen to music – but the hours are very long and there's a lot of responsibility as I'm in charge of a A$4m vehicle."
Like many such workers, Ms Selkirk said she did not intend to stay in the job forever. But the lure is strong, with a recent survey by Australia's Commonwealth Bank showing that the blue-collar workforce in some parts of Western Australia enjoys wages 62pc higher than the national average.
Such is the scale of the discrepancy between mining wages and other jobs that it is warping the local economies of these outposts. In the muggy coastal mining town of Karratha, where the rents just lag those on the Sydney waterfront, the housing shortage has forced some non-mining workers to live in cars and shipping containers.
"Their boom has been unbelievable, it's accelerated dramatically in 18 months," said Nick Eastwood, senior consultant at UK mining recruitment agency Hunter Personnel. "Salaries have increased dramatically over there, which means many, many expats are returning to Australia – leaving a void in other places, be it Africa, Kazakhstan or elsewhere."
The labour shortage is by no means confined to Australia. Mines all around the world are fighting hard to attract the same pool of skilled industry veterans with international experience.
Australia was just among the first to face the problem, as it saw investment return following the global crisis, say industry watchers.
According to Ernst & Young's mining team, the skills shortage is now the industry's second-biggest business risk after resource nationalism – moves by governments to enjoy a greater slice of mining profits – and it is a problem which is not going away.
"We believe that it [the shortage] may become a bigger risk in both developed and developing countries as we move into 2012," E&Y warned in a recent report.
In Canada, officials now project a labour shortfall of up to 90,000 workers by 2017. In Peru, the industry estimates it will need to add 30,000 positions this decade.
Part of the issue is the cyclical nature of the industry. Few clamoured to join when it was in downturn mode. Some 15 to 20 years ago, many of the majors stopped their graduate trainee schemes, which saw universities closing their mining engineering schools in turn.
So what can companies do to keep costs low? As they dig away in ever more remote regions, as existing mines come to the end of their lives, there is little sign that recruitment will get any easier or cheaper.
There is a lot of talk about the industry's move towards automation. For example, Rio Tinto's iron ore mines in the Pilbara will soon boast 150 driverless trucks, the largest fleet in the world, controlled by workers in its Perth operations centre more than 1,500km away.
But automation is not so much about cutting employee numbers as improving safety and efficiency. While you might not have someone physically in the driving seat, you still need someone to wiggle a joystick – although staff should be easier to retain in a cosmopolitan city than in the back of beyond.
Many believe that, instead of relying on higher salaries to keep themselves staffed, mining companies will increasingly have to invest in in-house training schemes and work with universities to offer industry-specific courses.
Companies are also lobbying governments to relax rules on letting in foreign workers, and adapting working routines to attract staff from outside their traditional demographic, such as promoting job-share roles to bring in more working mothers. But this will all take time.
Meanwhile, the industry frets that the staff shortages will delay projects and keep pushing up costs.
Bad news for the bosses but for the staff it's nice work –although tough – if you can get it.
So if you are earning GBP40K in the UK you need around 90-100K Aussie to have a similar standard of living.
Last time I was back I was deeply struck by how small & congested the South East, I have become used to a 100-200 mile drive as being a local jaunt over here!!!
I have no standard of livin here in the uk, so hostels and $15 PH is great for me :-)
Ideally I'd like to sit down with a consultant and take through the entire process from start to finish e.g. which city, jobs, housing, schools etc