Their true place - like ours - is mid-table Championship with the odd flirtation with promotion.
i don't get this comment at all.
It just means that Blackburn are not a naturally top-flight club, they have spent most of their history in the second and third tiers of English football until Jack Walker arrived in 1991 and put them on their way to the Premiership within four years thanks to his multi-million pound investment.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Blackburn’s support base is relatively small and can’t be grown much given the intense competition from other clubs in Lancashire, most obviously the Manchester and Liverpool giants as well as other local clubs like Burnley and Preston.
As a result, once you take Walker’s money out of the equation then Blackburn will naturally fall back to their natural position outside of the top tier and into the Championship.
The same goes for us, since the glory years ended in 1957 (relegation from the top flight) we have spent the following number of seasons in each division.
Top-Division = 12 seasons (21.8%)
Second Division = 36 seasons (65.5%)
Third Division = 7 seasons (12.7%)
It’s pretty plain from those figures that in modern times the second-tier is our natural level and that we are generally punching above our weight once we get into the top division.
That’s not to say that we can’t make the Premiership again – we probably will – but its hard to say that the Premiership is our natural place in the game given how little time we have spent in the top flight over the last 55 years – only around 1 year in 5 in fact.
you just randomly chose 1957 as your start point for modern times? i would have chosen euro 96 or the creation of the premiership for modern, but maybe in charlton's history we ought to go way back the the dark days of 1984. where my tally at a guestimate makes it
top division = 13 years
second division = 11
third division = 3
which means that up until this season we'd spent most of our time in the top flight where i'd say that our true place wouldn't be in the championship with blackburn at all. but if you asked my son, well he's only 6 and only knows the last 3 seasons, but he plays fifa on his ds as charlton and doesn't see a problem with us taking on brazil every now and then.
i wouldn't discount a cup final win just because it was 65 years (whatever) ago, nor would i make out to anyone that our true place is anywhere other than the top flight. we are where we are though. but maybe that's just me.
you just randomly chose 1957 as your start point for modern times? i would have chosen euro 96 or the creation of the premiership for modern, but maybe in charlton's history we ought to go way back the the dark days of 1984. where my tally at a guestimate makes it
top division = 13 years
second division = 11
third division = 3
which means that up until this season we'd spent most of our time in the top flight where i'd say that our true place wouldn't be in the championship with blackburn at all. but if you asked my son, well he's only 6 and only knows the last 3 seasons, but he plays fifa on his ds as charlton and doesn't see a problem with us taking on brazil every now and then.
I did not choose 1957 ‘randomly’ at all, I think most people taking a long term look at the history of the club would say that the 1957 season was critical because that was the year when our 21 year stay in the top division (including seven lost years because of WWII) ended and plunged us into a thirty year absence from the top division.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Even taking into account that golden period of top-flight status from 1936-1957 and looking across our whole history then our years in the top flight are still a clear minority in our history in 84 seasons in the English Football League....
1921-2011
Top Division – 26 seasons (30.9%)
Second Division – 41 seasons (48.8%)
Third Division – 17 seasons (20.2%)
Looking at those figures, with just shy of 50% of our time spent in the second division of the Football League then it is hard to argue that that level of football is not our most natural historical fit.
Taking your approach of using more modern sampling data would give a more skewed example, for instance, Wigan have been in the top division for the last six seasons but nobody could seriously claim that they are a natural top flight club.
In the 1986-1990 top division years we were quite clearly the smallest team in the division with the exception of Wimbledon (admittedly we were at Selhurst) and in the 2000-2007 Premiership years there were very few smaller clubs than us in the division apart from the odd appearance from Wigan, Norwich and Bradford.
Generally speaking it was a real battle for us to stay in the top flight, with a couple of seasons excepted, simply because we did not have anything like the resources available to other clubs with larger support bases and more financial muscle enabling them to build much bigger squads.
I always felt this explained our traditional post-February slump under Curbs, we had very small squads with only a small number of top-class players and by the last quarter of the season we had generally used up all of our available resources and were running on empty.
Having said all of that, looking at the current Premiership table, there are a number of clubs in there whom we are certainly bigger than or of a comparable size to; Wigan, QPR, Norwich, Stoke, Fulham, Swansea, West Brom, Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn.
The reality is though that some of those clubs are propped up by rich owners who are prepared to accept heavy ongoing losses; Wigan, QPR, Fulham, Bolton and (formerly) Blackburn whilst others are on a financial tight-rope which could toss them into League One within a couple of seasons.
I can see how people could view us over the last decade as being a natural Premiership club given that we did spend 8 of the last 15 seasons in the Premiership but, looking from a wider historical perspective, this does not present a wholly accurate picture.
It was clear in the summer Blackburn were in trouble, they lost a host of players, and failed to replace them. Kean did a great bit of business bringing in Yakubu late in the windows, but the squad is still weaker than the team that barely avoided relegation last season, so I fully expected them to go down.
Their current position should surprise no one, least of all their own fans. I'm not sure what they expect Kean to do. He kept them up, then the owners failed to strengthen, and let the squad become weaker, relegation is the obvious result.
Desperate team at the moment. And to think they beat Arsenal early in the season. Sack kean and who would they replace him with? Bottom at christmas usually means relegation.
Blackburn are a small club with dire crowds,punch well above there weight
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Well obviously not ... Yeah they bring in small crowds, but doesn't most clubs do these days because of the recession. They've been in the premier league for 10 years.. So how could they be punching well above there weight. There just having a poor season it's as simple as that.
Depends how old you are, if you have only followed football since the mid-90’s then you probably would think that Blackburn were a ‘big club’ and were a permanent Premier League fixture.
The fact is though that pre-1991 when Jack Walker got involved they were a potless Lancashire outfit getting derisory crowds (sub 5,000 was the norm) and never had the remotest ability to get within a mile of top-flight football – never mind win the Premier League.
Walker’s money changed all that but now that money has been cut off and the Venky’s – for whatever reason – are not replacing it.
As a result, with their main source of funding gone Blackburn are drifting back to their normal position of being in the second tier of the game – and will probably be in the third tier of the game before too long.
They have never been a ‘big club’ they have only been there for the last 20 years because Jack Walker spent around 100 million quid + on getting and keeping them there, now that he’s gone they will be gone too.
since we entered the league in 1921 we have spent 33 years in the top flight, all of which has been on merit. that's pretty much how it works for us. we may have been a smaller side amongst it all but whilst lord alan was in charge, we were certainly comfortable there. some cranks on here actually thought we should be challenging for europe on a regular basis and that he had taken us as far as he could. heigh-ho
Their true place - like ours - is mid-table Championship with the odd flirtation with promotion.
i don't get this comment at all.
It just means that Blackburn are not a naturally top-flight club, they have spent most of their history in the second and third tiers of English football until Jack Walker arrived in 1991 and put them on their way to the Premiership within four years thanks to his multi-million pound investment.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Blackburn’s support base is relatively small and can’t be grown much given the intense competition from other clubs in Lancashire, most obviously the Manchester and Liverpool giants as well as other local clubs like Burnley and Preston.
As a result, once you take Walker’s money out of the equation then Blackburn will naturally fall back to their natural position outside of the top tier and into the Championship.
The same goes for us, since the glory years ended in 1957 (relegation from the top flight) we have spent the following number of seasons in each division.
Top-Division = 12 seasons (21.8%)
Second Division = 36 seasons (65.5%)
Third Division = 7 seasons (12.7%)
It’s pretty plain from those figures that in modern times the second-tier is our natural level and that we are generally punching above our weight once we get into the top division.
That’s not to say that we can’t make the Premiership again – we probably will – but its hard to say that the Premiership is our natural place in the game given how little time we have spent in the top flight over the last 55 years – only around 1 year in 5 in fact.
1937 - 1. Manchester City 2. Charlton Athletic 3. Arsenal
1938 - 1. Arsenal 2. Wolves 3 Preston. Charlton
1939 - 1. Everton 2. Wolves 3 Charlton
1946 - FA Cup Finalists
1947 - FA cup winners
if it werent for the war we would have been MASSIVE like Wednesday
I'm kind of torn on the Steve Kean issue. On the one hand it's refreshing to see an owner stand by his manager through thick and thin. On the other hand, that manager quite possibly is simply not up to the job. I think his days are numbered now though.
I cannot see how he can survive, even if they win a couple of games a few poor results and the abuse will start again, the fans never wanted him in the first place so will never give him any leeway.
Comments
It just means that Blackburn are not a naturally top-flight club, they have spent most of their history in the second and third tiers of English football until Jack Walker arrived in 1991 and put them on their way to the Premiership within four years thanks to his multi-million pound investment.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Blackburn’s support base is relatively small and can’t be grown much given the intense competition from other clubs in Lancashire, most obviously the Manchester and Liverpool giants as well as other local clubs like Burnley and Preston.
As a result, once you take Walker’s money out of the equation then Blackburn will naturally fall back to their natural position outside of the top tier and into the Championship.
The same goes for us, since the glory years ended in 1957 (relegation from the top flight) we have spent the following number of seasons in each division.
Top-Division = 12 seasons (21.8%)
Second Division = 36 seasons (65.5%)
Third Division = 7 seasons (12.7%)
It’s pretty plain from those figures that in modern times the second-tier is our natural level and that we are generally punching above our weight once we get into the top division.
That’s not to say that we can’t make the Premiership again – we probably will – but its hard to say that the Premiership is our natural place in the game given how little time we have spent in the top flight over the last 55 years – only around 1 year in 5 in fact.
top division = 13 years
second division = 11
third division = 3
which means that up until this season we'd spent most of our time in the top flight where i'd say that our true place wouldn't be in the championship with blackburn at all. but if you asked my son, well he's only 6 and only knows the last 3 seasons, but he plays fifa on his ds as charlton and doesn't see a problem with us taking on brazil every now and then.
i wouldn't discount a cup final win just because it was 65 years (whatever) ago, nor would i make out to anyone that our true place is anywhere other than the top flight. we are where we are though. but maybe that's just me.
I did not choose 1957 ‘randomly’ at all, I think most people taking a long term look at the history of the club would say that the 1957 season was critical because that was the year when our 21 year stay in the top division (including seven lost years because of WWII) ended and plunged us into a thirty year absence from the top division.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Even taking into account that golden period of top-flight status from 1936-1957 and looking across our whole history then our years in the top flight are still a clear minority in our history in 84 seasons in the English Football League....
1921-2011
Top Division – 26 seasons (30.9%)
Second Division – 41 seasons (48.8%)
Third Division – 17 seasons (20.2%)
Looking at those figures, with just shy of 50% of our time spent in the second division of the Football League then it is hard to argue that that level of football is not our most natural historical fit.
Taking your approach of using more modern sampling data would give a more skewed example, for instance, Wigan have been in the top division for the last six seasons but nobody could seriously claim that they are a natural top flight club.
In the 1986-1990 top division years we were quite clearly the smallest team in the division with the exception of Wimbledon (admittedly we were at Selhurst) and in the 2000-2007 Premiership years there were very few smaller clubs than us in the division apart from the odd appearance from Wigan, Norwich and Bradford.
Generally speaking it was a real battle for us to stay in the top flight, with a couple of seasons excepted, simply because we did not have anything like the resources available to other clubs with larger support bases and more financial muscle enabling them to build much bigger squads.
I always felt this explained our traditional post-February slump under Curbs, we had very small squads with only a small number of top-class players and by the last quarter of the season we had generally used up all of our available resources and were running on empty.
Having said all of that, looking at the current Premiership table, there are a number of clubs in there whom we are certainly bigger than or of a comparable size to; Wigan, QPR, Norwich, Stoke, Fulham, Swansea, West Brom, Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn.
The reality is though that some of those clubs are propped up by rich owners who are prepared to accept heavy ongoing losses; Wigan, QPR, Fulham, Bolton and (formerly) Blackburn whilst others are on a financial tight-rope which could toss them into League One within a couple of seasons.
I can see how people could view us over the last decade as being a natural Premiership club given that we did spend 8 of the last 15 seasons in the Premiership but, looking from a wider historical perspective, this does not present a wholly accurate picture.Their current position should surprise no one, least of all their own fans. I'm not sure what they expect Kean to do. He kept them up, then the owners failed to strengthen, and let the squad become weaker, relegation is the obvious result.
Well obviously not ... Yeah they bring in small crowds, but doesn't most clubs do these days because of the recession.
They've been in the premier league for 10 years.. So how could they be punching well above there weight.
There just having a poor season it's as simple as that.
Depends how old you are, if you have only followed football since the mid-90’s then you probably would think that Blackburn were a ‘big club’ and were a permanent Premier League fixture.
The fact is though that pre-1991 when Jack Walker got involved they were a potless Lancashire outfit getting derisory crowds (sub 5,000 was the norm) and never had the remotest ability to get within a mile of top-flight football – never mind win the Premier League.
Walker’s money changed all that but now that money has been cut off and the Venky’s – for whatever reason – are not replacing it.
As a result, with their main source of funding gone Blackburn are drifting back to their normal position of being in the second tier of the game – and will probably be in the third tier of the game before too long.
They have never been a ‘big club’ they have only been there for the last 20 years because Jack Walker spent around 100 million quid + on getting and keeping them there, now that he’s gone they will be gone too.
1937 - 1. Manchester City 2. Charlton Athletic 3. Arsenal
1938 - 1. Arsenal 2. Wolves 3 Preston. Charlton
1939 - 1. Everton 2. Wolves 3 Charlton
1946 - FA Cup Finalists
1947 - FA cup winners
if it werent for the war we would have been MASSIVE like Wednesday
I cannot see how he can survive, even if they win a couple of games a few poor results and the abuse will start again, the fans never wanted him in the first place so will never give him any leeway.