Going from 17.5% to 20% vat is not a 2.5% vat increase, its 14% i think from memory,(sorry no calculator to hand!) on 17.5% which means that retail prices end up rocketing by 20%
14.29% increase
The actual effect of a VAT increase from 17.5% to 20% is an overall price increase of 2.13%, because the extra VAT only applies to the base price not the existing VAT. No idea how that could translate to a 20% increase.
Incidentally, AFAIK no Conservative government has ever cut the main rate of VAT and no Labour government has ever increased it (except to reverse what had always been advertised as a temporary cut). I think that gives you the answer to the original question.
Going from 17.5% to 20% vat is not a 2.5% vat increase, its 14% i think from memory,(sorry no calculator to hand!) on 17.5% which means that retail prices end up rocketing by 20%
14.29% increase
The actual effect of a VAT increase from 17.5% to 20% is an overall price increase of 2.13%, because the extra VAT only applies to the base price not the existing VAT. No idea how that could translate to a 20% increase.
Incidentally, AFAIK no Conservative government has ever cut the main rate of VAT and no Labour government has ever increased it (except to reverse what had always been advertised as a temporary cut). I think that gives you the answer to the original question.
Talking about the % increase in VAT not the net impact on the cost of goods. Still, you are correct in that the important figure is 2.13%
Thanks addicted , did you do that in your head? ;-0
Of course, one of the benefits of being a savant... either that or im an accountant with a calculator
Going from 17.5% to 20% vat is not a 2.5% vat increase, its 14% i think from memory,(sorry no calculator to hand!) on 17.5% which means that retail prices end up rocketing by 20%
14.29% increase
The actual effect of a VAT increase from 17.5% to 20% is an overall price increase of 2.13%, because the extra VAT only applies to the base price not the existing VAT. No idea how that could translate to a 20% increase.
Incidentally, AFAIK no Conservative government has ever cut the main rate of VAT and no Labour government has ever increased it (except to reverse what had always been advertised as a temporary cut). I think that gives you the answer to the original question.
Partly explains the state BlairBrown left us in?
Not really, since higher VAT wouldn't have had much effect on the bankers and would only have exacerbated the decline in manufacturing as a proportion of the economy.
Going from 17.5% to 20% vat is not a 2.5% vat increase, its 14% i think from memory,(sorry no calculator to hand!) on 17.5% which means that retail prices end up rocketing by 20%
14.29% increase
The actual effect of a VAT increase from 17.5% to 20% is an overall price increase of 2.13%, because the extra VAT only applies to the base price not the existing VAT. No idea how that could translate to a 20% increase.
Incidentally, AFAIK no Conservative government has ever cut the main rate of VAT and no Labour government has ever increased it (except to reverse what had always been advertised as a temporary cut). I think that gives you the answer to the original question.
Partly explains the state BlairBrown left us in?
Not really, since higher VAT wouldn't have had much effect on the bankers and would only have exacerbated the decline in manufacturing as a proportion of the economy.
Tell me Airman, why do you think an increase in VAT doesn't impact much on banks but does on manufacturing?
Going from 17.5% to 20% vat is not a 2.5% vat increase, its 14% i think from memory,(sorry no calculator to hand!) on 17.5% which means that retail prices end up rocketing by 20%
14.29% increase
The actual effect of a VAT increase from 17.5% to 20% is an overall price increase of 2.13%, because the extra VAT only applies to the base price not the existing VAT. No idea how that could translate to a 20% increase.
Incidentally, AFAIK no Conservative government has ever cut the main rate of VAT and no Labour government has ever increased it (except to reverse what had always been advertised as a temporary cut). I think that gives you the answer to the original question.
Partly explains the state BlairBrown left us in?
Not really, since higher VAT wouldn't have had much effect on the bankers and would only have exacerbated the decline in manufacturing as a proportion of the economy.
Tell me Airman, why do you think an increase in VAT doesn't impact much on banks but does on manufacturing?
The point about banks is about the fact they weren't regulated properly. VAT wouldn't change that. Whereas firms that produce things have to sell them. Ultimately higher VAT means less money to spend on consumer goods.
Well done Airman now do tell explain why a VAT increase was part of Labour policy had they won the last election as admitted by Ed Ballsup ?
The Tories will cut it as i said ---only to buy votes pre the next election.
They won't, they'll cut income tax if they can afford it. Partly because if they cut income tax and people get extra money in their monthly pay they will notice it, whereas the effect of a VAT cut is much less personal. It's not effective as a way of buying votes.
Yup, I certainly remember the rejoicing on the streets and economic boom times as the slender shaving of VAT rescued us from years of disasterous, incompetant, selfish, ignorant financial management of this country.
Will? No. Should it? Yes. As much as people mocked Gordon Brown for doing such a "tiny thing" as lowering VAT to 15%, it worked pretty well i'd say.
Yes and he put up national insurance at the same time yet again!
Well considering that as well I would say it worked very well as we still gained some form of growth ... growth that has dwindled to 0.5% this last quarter I think?
Pensions are screwed regardless of who you work for, and the only way for teachers to get the level of income they were hoping for is to put more in , which they don't want to do, so wheres the money going to come from?
Pensions that were plundered by that nice Gordon Brown
Brilliant performance of Ed Millibean with Jon Snow tonight.
A bloke squatting in a deep national financial hole, created by his own party, complaining about a government trying to get the country out of it. Couldnt even acknowledge that his party spent too much.
Blamed everything on 'the bankers' - what a cop out absolving him and his party of any responsibility for the utter mess we are in. Not a word for the ruinously expensive wars they took us into or the monstrous overspending over a decade.
What an utterly clueless, two-faced and out of touch 'leader' he is.
FM hardley surprising Socialists and the left in general have NEVER EVER done anything wrong its either someones elses fault or they start calling names (bigot/facist etc etc) or they change the subject.
Example being Airmans comment re VAT re Labour have never increased VAT and "foregttng" it was their policy to do so if they were elected.
I still say the Tories will decrease it pre the next election and say they are 2 boosting the economy" they wil have to as Labour will be saying they will if they get voted in next time. I dont see it coming back to 17.5 % maybe 18.5 or 19%
They are all incompetent yet each pretends that they have the answer to our financial and social problems. Both major parties have had extensive periods in office over the last thirty years, Thatcher became Prime Minister in 1979 and her successor Major was replaced by Labour's Tony Blair in 1997 (then Brown) until 2010. If either party was any good why are we deep in the doo doo? They have both had perfect opportunities to revive the economy and long enough to do so. I don't buy into the argument that the Tories left Labour a great economy although I do think the present lot were given a hospital pass. As an example of how rubbish they all are, did anyone listen to 'Deputy Prime Minister Clegg' on radio 4 this morning? Boasting about new grants to subsidise the young seeking work. Humphreys asked him if the money was going to come from reducing tax credits for the poor and he blustered and refused to answer the question despite Humphreys repeating it, continually jabbering faster and faster. He sounded more shifty than a bloke telling you that he has Gaddafi's hidden gold if you would only provide your bank details.
Brilliant performance of Ed Millibean with Jon Snow tonight.
A bloke squatting in a deep national financial hole, created by his own party, complaining about a government trying to get the country out of it. Couldnt even acknowledge that his party spent too much.
Blamed everything on 'the bankers' - what a cop out absolving him and his party of any responsibility for the utter mess we are in. Not a word for the ruinously expensive wars they took us into or the monstrous overspending over a decade.
What an utterly clueless, two-faced and out of touch 'leader' he is.
1) Labour must take their share of responsibility, no question. And with hindsight, no doubt they should have managed better. But to ignore the impact of worldwide events and subsequent actions of the Coalition goverment, comes across as pretty one-eyed to me.
2) "Blamed everything on the bankers"? You mean the actions of bankers have had no effect on the national and worldwide economy and have not contributed to this recession of the past 4 years?
3) And of course the Falklands War and the First Gulf War either did not happen or took place without the knowledge or input of the Conservative government of the time? Floyd, there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.
I've made it clear in my previous posts that I've lost respect for the grubby low life that passes for politicians in this country, red, yellow, blue or the greenish sludge that is in power today.
You, Floyd come across as true blue, loyal and blinkered. Margaret Thatcher should be proud of you.
This country will remain in a mess for so long as 'bankers', financial alchemists and money changers control both the economy and more relevantly, the government. The only way out is through manufacturing both quality and plebian stuff but up against China, India, Brazil. Vitetnam, Turkey and all the other low wage/quasi dictatorship exporting nations we are totally up against it. The problem needs sorting soon before we become a nation with too many more computergamebrainwashed and benefit addicted people both young and old who have no idea what 'work' and 'reward' is all about. I dont care if VAT is 25% as long as any UK government tells the EEC to take a hike and the UK generated tax is used to sponsor and promote UK manufacturing industry. Only manufacturing can provide the huge number of jobs that are required to get this country working again and to give (especially) young people a sense of pride and achievement. This is a generalisation I know, BUT look at the statistics. The 'old west' is fast going down the drain both economically and socially.
Isn't it remarkable how none of the people with the answers come forward to run the country, so it's always left to those damn politicians who keep getting it wrong. Couldn't just be that there aren't any simple solutions, only simple people believing there are, could it?
I certainly have no answers, in fact I'm still having problems, despite extensive reading, understanding exactly what went on and why. My big gripe is that a lot of MP's and commentators don't understand either, and I would include both Blair and Cameron in this group. Too many people are giving opinions ( all too often founded on not very much at all) and passing it off as fact. We're in uncharted territory and now more than ever, we do need to move beyond partisan party interests and open up genuine political discussion.
FM hardley surprising Socialists and the left in general have NEVER EVER done anything wrong its either someones elses fault or they start calling names (bigot/facist etc etc) or they change the subject.
Example being Airmans comment re VAT re Labour have never increased VAT and "foregttng" it was their policy to do so if they were elected.
To be honest, I'm not sure what Ed Balls may or may not have said subsequently, which is why I ignored your comment, rather than because it doesn't suit my argument. If you can point me to a reliable source I'm happy to accept your point.
Comments
The point about banks is about the fact they weren't regulated properly. VAT wouldn't change that. Whereas firms that produce things have to sell them. Ultimately higher VAT means less money to spend on consumer goods.
They won't, they'll cut income tax if they can afford it. Partly because if they cut income tax and people get extra money in their monthly pay they will notice it, whereas the effect of a VAT cut is much less personal. It's not effective as a way of buying votes.
A bloke squatting in a deep national financial hole, created by his own party, complaining about a government trying to get the country out of it.
Couldnt even acknowledge that his party spent too much.
Blamed everything on 'the bankers' - what a cop out absolving him and his party of any responsibility for the utter mess we are in. Not a word for the ruinously expensive wars they took us into or the monstrous overspending over a decade.
What an utterly clueless, two-faced and out of touch 'leader' he is.
What's that got to do with VAT FM?
There are no other factors at all.
Ok, let's have another thread knocking the previous administration.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Greedy, grasping, empire building egocentrics the lot of them.
But to ignore the impact of worldwide events and subsequent actions of the Coalition goverment, comes across as pretty one-eyed to me.
2) "Blamed everything on the bankers"? You mean the actions of bankers have had no effect on the national and worldwide economy and have not contributed to this recession of the past 4 years?
3) And of course the Falklands War and the First Gulf War either did not happen or took place without the knowledge or input of the Conservative government of the time? Floyd, there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.
I've made it clear in my previous posts that I've lost respect for the grubby low life that passes for politicians in this country, red, yellow, blue or the greenish sludge that is in power today.
You, Floyd come across as true blue, loyal and blinkered. Margaret Thatcher should be proud of you.
Isn't it remarkable how none of the people with the answers come forward to run the country, so it's always left to those damn politicians who keep getting it wrong. Couldn't just be that there aren't any simple solutions, only simple people believing there are, could it?