My father in law was a Desert Rat in WW2 as a young man, never claimed a penny in his life and now has severe dementia that requires him to be in a care home - one which he has to pay out of his house/savings until it all goes where as those who never worked/have no savings get it all paid for them. Yes, good point Ormiston.
We should ensure the people like the ex army chap that killed himself with his wife because he was in extreme poverty -(in paper today) are properly supported. Cameron and other politicians have a point against FIFA but are not qulaified to complain.
"poppy culture" WTF "poppy culture" --------------------- what is that another load of lefty bollox --------------------- POPPY CULTURE MY ARSE.
its about respect-------thats RESPECT
Of course the usual red wedge dont want to have anything political re the England game --poppy etc but then in the next breath slag off call me Dave !!!
Its about RESPECT and the people who should be MADE to wear a poppy are the total twonks that never ever stop slagging off anything to do with this country--its tradition --what left of its culture . WHY ? well thousands and thousand died so you have that freedom to do so---thats right THE FREEDOM TO DO IT.
Politics---------------yes of course Call me Dave could do more -------------------wonder where all the "Ormstons" where with comments like that during the 13 years of Labour ? i mean they did so much didnt they . Two more wars.
I detest the poppy wearing self righteousness displayed by many on here. Buy and wear your poppy by all means but please stop the imposition of this on everyone else.
We have a choice, as do FIFA, and exercising that choice not to wear a poppy should not engender the knee jerk idiocy said in posts on this and other threads in this forum.
As I have said before surely one of the main things that this country fought in WWII for was freedom of expression, freedom to disagree and freedom from fascist tyranny. Take a look at yourselves and think how you measure up to that.
Veterans should not be dependent on charity the state should fully support them especially those, and their families, injured or killed in conflict. Any other remebrance is personal and not something that needs any type of badge.
I don't think it hurts to show some respect for those who have risked their lives for this country and it isn't a political thing at all - The point about actions and words applies equally to labour.
FIFA is right on this one. Thin end of wedge argument applies.To really show the strength of our feelings, maybe Cameron and Co could step up the remembrances and make sure that the war damaged and injured don't have to rely on charity, or is that too political?
This is not about politics, its about respecting the war dead of this country, who sacrificed everything for our freedoms, no matter what war, no matter what conflict. Soldiers & Citizens have died in wars under Labour, Conservative, Liberal and now a coalition Government, so for me, political opinions or affiliations should play no part.
Dont want to wear one, fine, your choice, but try to remember the sacrifices made to afford you such freedoms of choice, like it would be my choice to treat you with disdain and pity for your own self loathing.
This is not about politics, its about respecting the war dead of this country, who sacrificed everything for our freedoms, no matter what war, no matter what conflict. Soldiers & Citizens have died in wars under Labour, Conservative, Liberal and now a coalition Government, so for me, political opinions or affiliations should play no part.
Dont want to wear one, fine, your choice, but try to remember the sacrifices made to afford you such freedoms of choice, like it would be my choice to treat you with disdain and pity for your own self loathing.
Dont want to wear one, fine, your choice, but try to remember the sacrifices made to afford you such freedoms of choice, like it would be my choice to treat you with disdain and pity for your own self loathing.
But why do you have to wear a poppy to remember those things? I'm perfectly capable of paying my respects without wearing one. I make a donation, but don't wear the poppy, is that so bad?
Yes, forgo advertisng revenues and flood the elctronic holdings with falling poppies graphics - FA pays the advertising fee direct to British Legion. Would be a nice gesture and more effective than a poppy ironed on to a shirt.
Yes, forgo advertisng revenues and flood the elctronic holdings with falling poppies graphics - FA pays the advertising fee direct to British Legion. Would be a nice gesture and more effective than a poppy ironed on to a shirt.
That would never ever happen.
This is all a big load of hot air spouted around by politicians/media trying to manipulate a sorrowful time of year to peruse their own ends.
I have to say, a lot of what Fisk wrote in that independent article I find to be true.
This is not about politics, its about respecting the war dead of this country, who sacrificed everything for our freedoms, no matter what war, no matter what conflict. Soldiers & Citizens have died in wars under Labour, Conservative, Liberal and now a coalition Government, so for me, political opinions or affiliations should play no part.
Dont want to wear one, fine, your choice, but try to remember the sacrifices made to afford you such freedoms of choice, like it would be my choice to treat you with disdain and pity for your own self loathing.
But why do you have to wear a poppy to remember those things? I'm perfectly capable of paying my respects without wearing one. I make a donation, but don't wear the poppy, is that so bad?
Because its a symbol from the fields of Belgium & France where so many lost their lives, every cause or charity (as the poppy is the official badge of the Royal British Legion which is a registered charity) has them. Would people be so indifferent or anti symbol for someone wearing a badge or pin for Mencap, RSPCA, NSPCC, Oxfam, Barnardos, Cancer Research, Pink Breast Cancer ribbons or Red Aids awareness ribbons, and so on and so on........NO
Yes that's true and I have always worn one but there are some issues - If people (politicians- tv celebreties) wear them because they are expected to or for political gain that is wrong, Is it right a football team has poppies ironed onto it's shirts, irrespective of the sentiments of the players. The poppy fund was the idea of Haig's wife and has Haig fund inn the centre- Haig was responsible for the needless deaths and suffering of WW1 soldiers - His statue is close by to the Cenotaph in Whitehall which I always have a problem with. What would those who died in the trenches think of that association? When I wear my poppy it is out of respect for those who died for this country and that is what the poppy means to me but it is a point that maybe I should just give the money and contemplate their sacrifice and not wear a poppy (as I always have done)? I certainly shouldn't be wearing it to show others I have supported the fund as I am not worthy or important enough for that. And nor arguably is anybody else who hasn't fought and risked their lives for this country.
Think I'll take my poppy off and give an extra donation this lunchtime. But if not wearing poppies mean that less money goes to our heroes, that is wrong. It should be a personal decsion I think but when it comes to Politicians- it should be a case of actions speaking louder than words.
"There are other ways to honour the poppy than by wearing it on a shirt. The FA has helped us explore every alternative available and we are satisfied that England will enter the competition knowing they have shown proper respect for our Armed Forces."
Chris Simpkins, Director General of The Royal British Legion.
The point here is a matter of democratic principle - nothing more nothing less. It is not a question of politics, historical precedent or dogma it is a simple wish by an organisation to extend its symbolic remembrance of those that have given their lives in the service of others.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
If Irish Republicans, the Armenians, Iran or the Palestinians wish to do the same then no matter how much I may disagree with any of their "causes" or any of their actions I have no right to impose my "political" slant on their right to remember whoever they wish in a peaceful manner.
No one is being forced to wear a Poppy. People have a free choice to do so or not. For those that choose to do so it is a matter for them as why they do so. Others can attach whatever opinion of that action they like, but for both it is a matter of democratic freedom.
Is not the line "I may have the strongest objections to what you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it". Many people of many nations have given their lives for that principle.
Is not the greatest irony in all of this that it is this very freedom FIFA chooses to deny? Analyse and pontificate all you like this is simply a matter of people wishing to exercise their right to remember their dead in a peaceful manner.
Comments
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8878003/England-v-Spain-lets-play-by-Sepp-Blatters-rules-but-still-turn-Wembley-into-a-field-of-poppies.html
My father in law was a Desert Rat in WW2 as a young man, never claimed a penny in his life and now has severe dementia that requires him to be in a care home - one which he has to pay out of his house/savings until it all goes where as those who never worked/have no savings get it all paid for them. Yes, good point Ormiston.
We should ensure the people like the ex army chap that killed himself with his wife because he was in extreme poverty -(in paper today) are properly supported. Cameron and other politicians have a point against FIFA but are not qulaified to complain.
I detest the poppy wearing self righteousness displayed by many on here. Buy and wear your poppy by all means but please stop the imposition of this on everyone else.
We have a choice, as do FIFA, and exercising that choice not to wear a poppy should not engender the knee jerk idiocy said in posts on this and other threads in this forum.
As I have said before surely one of the main things that this country fought in WWII for was freedom of expression, freedom to disagree and freedom from fascist tyranny. Take a look at yourselves and think how you measure up to that.
Veterans should not be dependent on charity the state should fully support them especially those, and their families, injured or killed in conflict. Any other remebrance is personal and not something that needs any type of badge.
This is not about politics, its about respecting the war dead of this country, who sacrificed everything for our freedoms, no matter what war, no matter what conflict. Soldiers & Citizens have died in wars under Labour, Conservative, Liberal and now a coalition Government, so for me, political opinions or affiliations should play no part.
Dont want to wear one, fine, your choice, but try to remember the sacrifices made to afford you such freedoms of choice, like it would be my choice to treat you with disdain and pity for your own self loathing.
Get people angry about something that isn't the economy? Excellent work spin doctors.
Are footballer going to be paying for the poppies on their shirt? I suspect not.
And Umbro do not have their logo on the actual kit - only the training kits and the retail ones.
http://www.skysports.com/football/world-cup-2010/story/0,27032,12016_5488102,00.html
This is all a big load of hot air spouted around by politicians/media trying to manipulate a sorrowful time of year to peruse their own ends.
I have to say, a lot of what Fisk wrote in that independent article I find to be true.
Because its a symbol from the fields of Belgium & France where so many lost their lives, every cause or charity (as the poppy is the official badge of the Royal British Legion which is a registered charity) has them. Would people be so indifferent or anti symbol for someone wearing a badge or pin for Mencap, RSPCA, NSPCC, Oxfam, Barnardos, Cancer Research, Pink Breast Cancer ribbons or Red Aids awareness ribbons, and so on and so on........NO
Yes that's true and I have always worn one but there are some issues - If people (politicians- tv celebreties) wear them because they are expected to or for political gain that is wrong, Is it right a football team has poppies ironed onto it's shirts, irrespective of the sentiments of the players. The poppy fund was the idea of Haig's wife and has Haig fund inn the centre- Haig was responsible for the needless deaths and suffering of WW1 soldiers - His statue is close by to the Cenotaph in Whitehall which I always have a problem with. What would those who died in the trenches think of that association? When I wear my poppy it is out of respect for those who died for this country and that is what the poppy means to me but it is a point that maybe I should just give the money and contemplate their sacrifice and not wear a poppy (as I always have done)? I certainly shouldn't be wearing it to show others I have supported the fund as I am not worthy or important enough for that. And nor arguably is anybody else who hasn't fought and risked their lives for this country.
Think I'll take my poppy off and give an extra donation this lunchtime. But if not wearing poppies mean that less money goes to our heroes, that is wrong. It should be a personal decsion I think but when it comes to Politicians- it should be a case of actions speaking louder than words.
"There are other ways to honour the poppy than by wearing it on a shirt. The FA has helped us explore every alternative available and we are satisfied that England will enter the competition knowing they have shown proper respect for our Armed Forces."
Chris Simpkins, Director General of The Royal British Legion.
The point here is a matter of democratic principle - nothing more nothing less. It is not a question of politics, historical precedent or dogma it is a simple wish by an organisation to extend its symbolic remembrance of those that have given their lives in the service of others.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
If Irish Republicans, the Armenians, Iran or the Palestinians wish to do the same then no matter how much I may disagree with any of their "causes" or any of their actions I have no right to impose my "political" slant on their right to remember whoever they wish in a peaceful manner.
No one is being forced to wear a Poppy. People have a free choice to do so or not. For those that choose to do so it is a matter for them as why they do so. Others can attach whatever opinion of that action they like, but for both it is a matter of democratic freedom.
Is not the line "I may have the strongest objections to what you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it". Many people of many nations have given their lives for that principle.
Is not the greatest irony in all of this that it is this very freedom FIFA chooses to deny? Analyse and pontificate all you like this is simply a matter of people wishing to exercise their right to remember their dead in a peaceful manner.
They/ we should be allowed to do so.
Grapevine49