chris powell had a go at him at one point during the game too. i guess everyone is allowed to be critical. I think he does good things, but then also does silly things. like most players we have. I didnt realise he set up the goal till i saw it on the telly later that night. the boy done good and i didn't hear any criticism when he was subbed.
We signed a player that wasn't wanted by Preston. Most of the signings we made in the summer were young and for the future, He was always going to have to prove himself more than the rest. I would personally rather see Wagstaff play in his position and be the link and have Green in Wagstaffs position. Sorry .
You would!! I hope we dont try it..Paul Hayes does what is required it would seem. I personally like watching him and our current team.
You'd just better not hope we are 1-0 down with 2 mins to go and suddenly Hayes is 30 yards out & is bearing down on goal.............I have no faith that he would burying it - BWP Yes, Hayes, No.
Oh - and for all of you that say he brings other things to the table..............he is a striker, first & foremost. You don't play a goalkeeper that can't stop a shot or catch a ball purely becuase he can throw it out to a team mate !! Same goes for a striker - some may be better than others at keeping the ball, some may be better than others at playing in a team mate.............but they all should be able to put the ball in the back of the net when faced with a chance !!!!!!!
Hayes has won promotion from this division in the past and scored plenty of goals in the process albeit with a BWP type player alongside him- possiblt Billy Sharp and Gary Hooper?. So far he has like many had good and bad games but even on Saturday he had an excellent assist for the first and linked up well again with BWP.
For me, he needs a couple of good games at home and a home goal. Away he has been excellent.
Golfie, if you had two strikers that were pure finishers, I don't think that would be a great balance. If the biggest part of their game is popping the ball in the net, rather than hold up and lay off it puts a lot of pressure on the midfield to get up the pitch to do some of the grunt work. If you do that then there's gaps at the back. I think it's worth giving up a bit of finishing for someone who can win a flick on or hold the ball up. Doesn't mean that his finishing shouldn't be better, but it's a matter of balance. We're not going to get someone who can do it all at this level. The comparison with keepers isn't quite right, because there's only one of them.
If someone asked me at the end of last season that this season we will have a player who scores a couple, plays average but creates many i would have taken it like there was no tomorrow....well that is the way i see Hayes right now. He has been key so far this season, and yet he still frustrates me such as when he gets in brilliant positions but fails to create any real danger for example the Scunthorpe match where he had a chance of a 1 on 1 but yes we know thats not his strength.
As long as he keeps those assists coming and scoring the odd important goal, i'll be more than happy with him in our side.
What possible difference does it make to his performances that he was not wanted by Preston?
Why are so many people today obsessed with focusing on players shortcomings seemingly almost desperate to accentuate any negatives? What is the point? It is perverse.
We can all dream up scenarios where certain players may or may not produce the goods. The point is does the player add value to the side. In terms of the current success of the side Hayes certainly does.
It is depressing. It never used to be like this.
What would people today make of us signing Holton (aged 38+) from Watford reserves. He had a turning circle of an oil tanker, could barely run the length of the field and yet his guile and experience were invaluable. Same with signing Firmani from Southend reserves. A shadow of the player he had been, he still inspired a playing revival.
I do not recall a single complaint with either signing. We accepted their limitations but respected what they brought to the side. In fact we were willing them to succeed.
Maybe with the education system in those days most of us had actually experienced playing the game to a far greater degree and appreciated the skills needed to operate at a professional level.
I took my coaching badge 40 years ago and of course the game has moved on but reading many of the comments on this and other boards I become increasingly at odds with peoples expectations.
For goodness sake the players have performed to the point of winning 5 of the 7 games played, losing none of them.
As for Hayes he may not be a PL footballer but his record shows he has displayed at League 1 and Championship levels a range of skills and technical ability that enables others to play. He shows every sign of doing so for us.
A good technical player he fulfills a very valuable function in the side today. It is no accident that his performances away from home are seen to be better. Quite simply playing away he has more space.
At home the opposition will sit deeper depriving him of space he needs to operate at his best. Yet he still manages to find space, make himself available and provide opportunies for others.
He puts in his shift in a side that remains undefeated .
All Im saying is certain players got everyone excited when we bought them so people are going to give them more of a chance. Look at Green he hasn't done anything yet and Wagstaff has been earned his place in the team with his performances but people still want Wagstaff to be dropped for Green. Not saying its right or wrong Im just answering the question that was asked.
All Im saying is certain players got everyone excited when we bought them so people are going to give them more of a chance. Look at Green he hasn't done anything yet and Wagstaff has been earned his place in the team with his performances but people still want Wagstaff to be dropped for Green. Not saying its right or wrong Im just answering the question that was asked.
Green was one of our best players against reading and when he came on for 15 - 20 mins a few games ago he was on form immediately
Wagstaff had an amazing start to the season but has been crap for the last few games ... back to his headless chicken running down cul-de-sacs routine
I think for Wagstaff (and Solly to some extent) the opposite to your view is true. The homegrown guys who came through the ranks are given far more lee-way than anyone who has been bought.
The Green/Wagstaff one is interesting as some people want Wagstaff in as he's "one of ours" and others want Green in as he was our costliest purchase
i cant believe that any of our players have come in for any criticism, considering we are unbeaten and being very tight on chances conceded, we are taking opportunities as they come , we are learning and moulding and gelling as a team, in the past i havent been able to see what the team were trying to achieve, this time round i can
some people want to take styock and perspective, i cant help think thaty the same people who are picking fault in individual perforemances are only doing so because they would love to be able to slate powell and his inabilities as a manager, they cant so they find the scape goat and i dont see it as just hayes
Waggy
Hayes
Solly
Euell
have all come in for real unfair and unwarrrented criticism, some of you in my opinion should get a real grip on your football perspective and try to appreciate what others are trying to do for you the fans, id like to tell you what i really think about you but toi be honest you aint worth the energy
It's been said before but if we signed most if not all of Barcelona's CL winning side someone would still find something to moan about.
Hayes does an invaluable job - our midfield is set up to score goals and we have BWP who is at his best being given a free role in the penalty box, having him do the hold up work would be a waste of his assets. Hayes will contribute far more goals than he scores in assists and creates the space for BWP to do his thing. Take him out the equation and you have to replace him with someone who does exactly what he does. As long as we are playing well and winning then there's no need to change things.
You'd just better not hope we are 1-0 down with 2 mins to go and suddenly Hayes is 30 yards out & is bearing down on goal.............I have no faith that he would burying it - BWP Yes, Hayes, No.
Oh - and for all of you that say he brings other things to the table..............he is a striker, first & foremost. You don't play a goalkeeper that can't stop a shot or catch a ball purely becuase he can throw it out to a team mate !! Same goes for a striker - some may be better than others at keeping the ball, some may be better than others at playing in a team mate.............but they all should be able to put the ball in the back of the net when faced with a chance !!!!!!!
I'm sorry, but I have to say I completely disagree with this statement. Lets first throw your goalkeeper argument straight out of the window all the way to join Atlantis in the depths of the Atlantic Ocean. It is quite clear that a goalkeeper could only have one role in a football team; to keep the ball out of the net. To say that the same 'single role' applies to a striker is complete nonsense. A striker can come in various forms: The target man, the link up man, the poacher, the nippy striker that plays of the shoulder of the last defender and in rare cases, the full package. To say that Hayes is no good because he doesn't put the ball in the back of the net every time baffles me. What is the difference if Hayes scores himself or puts it on a plate for another player to score? It is obvious to everyone what Paul Hayes' role in the side is - to link up the midfield and attack. Yes, he may well miss that 30 yard, bearing down on goal attempt but unfortunately, his lack of pace and maybe composure, are things he lacks. If he had those attributes, he wouldn't be in League One. The fact of the matter is, he is in the team to create and to chip in with the odd goal, and that is exactly what he has done and will continue to do so. End of.
Chicken and egg debate starting here again? He plays better away than he does at home - is that just a coincidence or is it because he feels less pressure? At Bury he had a great rapport with the fans and scored a good goal in BWP's absence in a tough match. Give him the backing at home and he could become the next Andy Hunt. Get on his back and he'll be the next Pawel Abbott. The players are sensitive to the fans - I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to voice concerns re performances/ ability, but we should accept some responsibility for lifting players and bringing out the best in them.
This. It would be great if everybody at the Valley could take on board your last sentence.
I think you've hit the nail on the head , i wish he would clap the fans when he comes off the pitch though , seems quite a moody , broody kinda person , bit of a perfectionist , a real foil for BWP , feel they bring out the best in each others game , sure he'll put a stray pass or have an occasional clumsy 1st touch , but the good he does outweigh the bad.
A frustrating player for sure, but only because sometimes he's so damn good. The through ball for BWP and the chipped pass down the left wing were incredible. I think the brilliant things he does highlight his mistakes more. Fans tend to get on players' backs when they don't challenge for every single ball as well and he's a little languid at 50/50s. I think he's a hugely important player for us though. BWP will probably score a chance 2 or 3 times out of 5, and Hayes will always lay on at least a couple of brilliant balls a game. The odds favour goals when those two play together.
Comments
chris powell had a go at him at one point during the game too. i guess everyone is allowed to be critical. I think he does good things, but then also does silly things. like most players we have. I didnt realise he set up the goal till i saw it on the telly later that night. the boy done good and i didn't hear any criticism when he was subbed.
You'd just better not hope we are 1-0 down with 2 mins to go and suddenly Hayes is 30 yards out & is bearing down on goal.............I have no faith that he would burying it - BWP Yes, Hayes, No.
Oh - and for all of you that say he brings other things to the table..............he is a striker, first & foremost. You don't play a goalkeeper that can't stop a shot or catch a ball purely becuase he can throw it out to a team mate !! Same goes for a striker - some may be better than others at keeping the ball, some may be better than others at playing in a team mate.............but they all should be able to put the ball in the back of the net when faced with a chance !!!!!!!
Hayes has won promotion from this division in the past and scored plenty of goals in the process albeit with a BWP type player alongside him- possiblt Billy Sharp and Gary Hooper?. So far he has like many had good and bad games but even on Saturday he had an excellent assist for the first and linked up well again with BWP.
For me, he needs a couple of good games at home and a home goal. Away he has been excellent.
Why are so many people today obsessed with focusing on players shortcomings seemingly almost desperate to accentuate any negatives? What is the point? It is perverse.
We can all dream up scenarios where certain players may or may not produce the goods. The point is does the player add value to the side. In terms of the current success of the side Hayes certainly does.
It is depressing. It never used to be like this.
What would people today make of us signing Holton (aged 38+) from Watford reserves. He had a turning circle of an oil tanker, could barely run the length of the field and yet his guile and experience were invaluable. Same with signing Firmani from Southend reserves. A shadow of the player he had been, he still inspired a playing revival.
I do not recall a single complaint with either signing. We accepted their limitations but respected what they brought to the side. In fact we were willing them to succeed.
Maybe with the education system in those days most of us had actually experienced playing the game to a far greater degree and appreciated the skills needed to operate at a professional level.
I took my coaching badge 40 years ago and of course the game has moved on but reading many of the comments on this and other boards I become increasingly at odds with peoples expectations.
For goodness sake the players have performed to the point of winning 5 of the 7 games played, losing none of them.
As for Hayes he may not be a PL footballer but his record shows he has displayed at League 1 and Championship levels a range of skills and technical ability that enables others to play. He shows every sign of doing so for us.
A good technical player he fulfills a very valuable function in the side today. It is no accident that his performances away from home are seen to be better. Quite simply playing away he has more space.
At home the opposition will sit deeper depriving him of space he needs to operate at his best. Yet he still manages to find space, make himself available and provide opportunies for others.
He puts in his shift in a side that remains undefeated .
Time was that used to be enough for most people.
Grapevine49
Everytime the ball went near Hayes and didnt result in a gial I had someone behind screaming "get Benson off!".
Our fans...
AFKA Bartram
i cant believe that any of our players have come in for any criticism, considering we are unbeaten and being very tight on chances conceded, we are taking opportunities as they come , we are learning and moulding and gelling as a team, in the past i havent been able to see what the team were trying to achieve, this time round i can
some people want to take styock and perspective, i cant help think thaty the same people who are picking fault in individual perforemances are only doing so because they would love to be able to slate powell and his inabilities as a manager, they cant so they find the scape goat and i dont see it as just hayes
Waggy
Hayes
Solly
Euell
have all come in for real unfair and unwarrrented criticism, some of you in my opinion should get a real grip on your football perspective and try to appreciate what others are trying to do for you the fans, id like to tell you what i really think about you but toi be honest you aint worth the energy
It's been said before but if we signed most if not all of Barcelona's CL winning side someone would still find something to moan about.
Hayes does an invaluable job - our midfield is set up to score goals and we have BWP who is at his best being given a free role in the penalty box, having him do the hold up work would be a waste of his assets. Hayes will contribute far more goals than he scores in assists and creates the space for BWP to do his thing. Take him out the equation and you have to replace him with someone who does exactly what he does. As long as we are playing well and winning then there's no need to change things.
We really should all unite in support and keep the moans and boos inside our skulls! (or on CL)