I am pleased with Hayes so far and think that he is working very well with BWP. Lets get excited rather than looking for holes....the team WILL get better as the season goes on FACT! COYR's
Jury is still out for me on Hayes. Been impressed with him a couple of times and distinctly unimpressed a couple of other times.
The above sums it up for me, I will worry if BWP gets injured though because we do not have a replacement who can score goals.
Agree with this about Hayes, he does some great flicks and passes from difficult angles but then cocks up a simple thing, which is what a lot of fans notice and don't not see the subtlety of the completed passes.
Hayes is there to compliment and support BWP and not be cover for him when he is not playing, that at the moment seems to be Benson or Waggy
charlton fans being over touchy cos people aren't saying everything and every player is perfect in la la charlton land
just cos a few people in the crowd voice disapproval/frustration at a poor touch/pass/shot or whatever doesn't mean the end of the world and we're looking to hang a player for his misdemeanours
ridiculous
I dont think that is the case on this subject. I can only offer my views but its more a case of the fans around me dont seem to watch the game and as many have pointed out above see the small things he does that allow BWP to do what he is good at.
I thought he was poor on Saturday. On one occasion he was clear on goal and he managed to over kick the ball so that it ran to the keeper. That was the last straw for me, I thought it was time for him to come off. I'm not saying I wouldn't play him again, but he was clearly not having a good game.
Sadly I think he has had more unimpressive games (at The Valley) this season than anyone else, and that is, I guess why he is being touted as a scapegoat.
I have no doubt that his contribution this season will be significant, and I didn't boo him, but I did groan, might have even shouted something, a couple of times on Saturday as he seemed unable to do what I thought he should be able to.
Some players are more inconsistent than others, the trick is to take him off when he isn't playing well, and that's what happened.
I thought he was poor on Saturday. On one occasion he was clear on goal and he managed to over kick the ball so that it ran to the keeper. That was the last straw for me, I thought it was time for him to come off. I'm not saying I wouldn't play him again, but he was clearly not having a good game.
Sadly I think he has had more unimpressive games (at The Valley) this season than anyone else, and that is, I guess why he is being touted as a scapegoat.
I have no doubt that his contribution this season will be significant, and I didn't boo him, but I did groan, might have even shouted something, a couple of times on Saturday as he seemed unable to do what I thought he should be able to.
Some players are more inconsistent than others, the trick is to take him off when he isn't playing well, and that's what happened.
If it was not for his touch and version we would of gone in at half time still nil nil.
No I dont think so, I like the way he plays football, I wrote on another thread that hayes' positional play is very good, he finds space well and has good vision and a football brain, however his touch lets him down, I think this is frustrating supporters. I also think he is a great foil for BWP and does a lot of the dirty work that strikers have to do. Now if he can work on his close control........
He didn't play much last season so it will take him a bit to get up to 100%. He has a nice touch about him and creates opportunities. Goals isn't a problem, aslong as BWP keeps banging them in. If he gets 10 league goals, added onto his good link-up play, then he will have done very well.
Chicken and egg debate starting here again? He plays better away than he does at home - is that just a coincidence or is it because he feels less pressure? At Bury he had a great rapport with the fans and scored a good goal in BWP's absence in a tough match. Give him the backing at home and he could become the next Andy Hunt. Get on his back and he'll be the next Pawel Abbott. The players are sensitive to the fans - I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to voice concerns re performances/ ability, but we should accept some responsibility for lifting players and bringing out the best in them.
For last ten minutes of the first half on Sat he ran the game and made the match winning goal.
2nd half it seemed he'd put his boots on the wrong feet so off was his touch. A lot of people seem to be remembering the bad and ignoring the good.
Regardless his record over many seasons and the games he has played (including goals and assists) for us show what a good player he is.
His strike partners score a lot of goals and BWP is yet another example of this. If BWP is injured then Hayes will set up goals for his replacement whoever that maybe. And Hayes will get 10 - 12 goals of his own IMO.
I said when he signed he was a clever touch player who's abilities who go unnoticed by many fans. And it has happened.
Is he a perfect player with no faults? Of course not which is why he's playing for us?
But it does make me laugh when people bemoan so called hoofball and then slate the best technical touch player we have and the one who makes the team tick in the attacking third.
Chicken and egg debate starting here again? He plays better away than he does at home - is that just a coincidence or is it because he feels less pressure? At Bury he had a great rapport with the fans and scored a good goal in BWP's absence in a tough match. Give him the backing at home and he could become the next Andy Hunt. Get on his back and he'll be the next Pawel Abbott. The players are sensitive to the fans - I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to voice concerns re performances/ ability, but we should accept some responsibility for lifting players and bringing out the best in them.
This. It would be great if everybody at the Valley could take on board your last sentence.
Hayes is the type of player who is far more appreiciated by his team mates than by the fans, just ask Bradley. He'll create far more assists over the season than he'll score goals. Unfortunately due to a few bellends in our support I feel he is going to be '' Charltonised '' because of the confidence being sucked out of him. I for one can see the amount of off the ball work that he does allowing the likes of Bradley a bit more time and space. Certainley his touch especially in front of goal has been a bit frustrating but Jason Euell who has a whole catalogue of chants to his name still shins the ball more to this day than Heather Mills.
I remember plenty of groans and boos towards Andy Hunt in his first season, especially inbetween his brace at Tottenham and our long winter losing streak. What can you say?
It's just up to us to support these players more positively than those around us. I can't think of a player I've booed for many years, I've been close to it with Amdy Faye and did much to my shame with Illic in that first year in the prem. Much as Henry says, if someone scores ten plus goals for us and sets up 10-15 assists then it is an excellent return. If people can't recognise that the ball is sticking around the opposition's D more this season than for half a decade, then it's up to us to applaud these bits of play.
In fairness he didnt have a great second half in terms of ball retention. But what needs to be recognised is that he always gets his head up and produces an attacking pass this allows us to stay on the front foot and bring other players into play, some of the ideas are ambitious and not everything is going to come on off and it's at this time that people moaning and groaning rile me up.
Hayes is quality at this level, his game isn't based around scoring loads of goals but as long as his providing them for others and chips in with a few here and there
IMHO Benno is a League 2 striker and Hayes is technically a far better player and far more experienced at a higher level
Personally I think he's potentially much better than he's playing currently, at least at the Valley, but around me there are some idiots who blame him for everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING. Clearance less than pinpoint? Hayes' fault, he should have been there for the ball to land on. Goal conceded from a set piece? Hayes fault. It was definitely him who should have been tracking the scorer. BWP misses a chance? Hayes fault, it mus have been a terrible pass to put him in a bad position, and besides he didn't follow up (from about 20-25 yards no less.) Crosses into the box go heavy or over? Also Hayes fault, he should be challenging for every single one of course.
I must add these are NOT my views, but they do make me laugh. These are not some young tools saying this either, they are old enough and remind us often enough how long they've been supporting Charlton that you would think they had an inkling of how football actually works!
But it does make me laugh when people bemoan so called hoofball and then slate the best technical touch player we have and the one who makes the team tick in the attacking third.
Every team must be the same though surely and have fans with bricks for brains. At the scunthorpe match there was a constant moaner behind me slagging everyone and everything off. When we scored he remained seated, arms crossed and not even a smile. Seemed to take more enjoyment in their equaliser as it appeared to vindicate his moaning in his warped mind. Really don't know why people like that bother going.
Hayes is the type of player who is far more appreiciated by his team mates than by the fans, just ask Bradley. He'll create far more assists over the season than he'll score goals. Unfortunately due to a few bellends in our support I feel he is going to be '' Charltonised '' because of the confidence being sucked out of him. I for one can see the amount of off the ball work that he does allowing the likes of Bradley a bit more time and space. Certainley his touch especially in front of goal has been a bit frustrating but Jason Euell who has a whole catalogue of chants to his name still shins the ball more to this day than Heather Mills.
We signed a player that wasn't wanted by Preston. Most of the signings we made in the summer were young and for the future, He was always going to have to prove himself more than the rest. I would personally rather see Wagstaff play in his position and be the link and have Green in Wagstaffs position. Sorry .
He might endear himself more to the fans if he actually scored a bit more !! I realise that he brings other attributes to the team but as a striker he is still expected to put the ball in the net a few times - especially from more than 2 yards out.
Already this season he has had 4 or 5 one-on-ones with the keeper and he has fluffed them all and on Saturday he was clear through & completly mis-controled the ball and let the keeper come and collect it...............this is what ultimately frustrates fans. I appreciate he is not Rooney or Shearer and at this level we must expect the odd flaw or two - but I would expect any striker to be able to score a few goals with the ball at his feet now & again.
Hayes is fine as a starter and in his ability to link up play but surprised we still haven't brought in a striker who can be brought on to stretch the defence as they tire. Wasn't there Saturday but would guess the groaning may just be the only way that people can make their views known. I'm sure CP is aware of it but probably isn't able to bring any more in, til he's farmed the unwanted 3 out.
I think Hamer has scapegoat potential, for the obvious reason that the club allowed Elliot to leave to make room for him. He'd just better not let any goals in.
A was said in an earlier post - you have to understand the finer points to get his worth to the team. A good barometer for me of those who know about football and those that don't.
Comments
I am pleased with Hayes so far and think that he is working very well with BWP. Lets get excited rather than looking for holes....the team WILL get better as the season goes on FACT! COYR's
I dont think that is the case on this subject. I can only offer my views but its more a case of the fans around me dont seem to watch the game and as many have pointed out above see the small things he does that allow BWP to do what he is good at.
2nd half it seemed he'd put his boots on the wrong feet so off was his touch. A lot of people seem to be remembering the bad and ignoring the good.
Regardless his record over many seasons and the games he has played (including goals and assists) for us show what a good player he is.
His strike partners score a lot of goals and BWP is yet another example of this. If BWP is injured then Hayes will set up goals for his replacement whoever that maybe. And Hayes will get 10 - 12 goals of his own IMO.
I said when he signed he was a clever touch player who's abilities who go unnoticed by many fans. And it has happened.
Is he a perfect player with no faults? Of course not which is why he's playing for us?
But it does make me laugh when people bemoan so called hoofball and then slate the best technical touch player we have and the one who makes the team tick in the attacking third.
I notice on the stats that with the exception of the Bournemouth game he avaraages below 7 in our home matches but above 7 in away games.
The Jury's out for me but I think he could have the makings of a good L1 striker .
In fairness he didnt have a great second half in terms of ball retention. But what needs to be recognised is that he always gets his head up and produces an attacking pass this allows us to stay on the front foot and bring other players into play, some of the ideas are ambitious and not everything is going to come on off and it's at this time that people moaning and groaning rile me up.
His touch let him down in the second half at times but despite that he kept getting into good positions and didn't hide.
He has a definite role to play for us this season and I don't mean scapegoat!
I must add these are NOT my views, but they do make me laugh. These are not some young tools saying this either, they are old enough and remind us often enough how long they've been supporting Charlton that you would think they had an inkling of how football actually works!
We signed a player that wasn't wanted by Preston. Most of the signings we made in the summer were young and for the future, He was always going to have to prove himself more than the rest. I would personally rather see Wagstaff play in his position and be the link and have Green in Wagstaffs position. Sorry
.
He might endear himself more to the fans if he actually scored a bit more !! I realise that he brings other attributes to the team but as a striker he is still expected to put the ball in the net a few times - especially from more than 2 yards out.
Already this season he has had 4 or 5 one-on-ones with the keeper and he has fluffed them all and on Saturday he was clear through & completly mis-controled the ball and let the keeper come and collect it...............this is what ultimately frustrates fans. I appreciate he is not Rooney or Shearer and at this level we must expect the odd flaw or two - but I would expect any striker to be able to score a few goals with the ball at his feet now & again.
Agree we still need a BWP reserve - that is not Hayes' role, nor should it be his problem.
this! well said Domorules86 mate ;-)
One touch in the first half --and BWP put us one up --Hayes is a class player and will earn his salary,