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University! To go or not to go?

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  • Unless you know what you want to do, and a degree is absolutely essential to you getting into that field, don't bother. I'm pretty senior in my profession, and I don't have a degree in it. My degree is totally unlreated to my job - I don't even put it on my CV
  • its funny what you say Lat's regarding moving away from home and developing independance,because I got a job for Natwest at 16 travelled to London everyday gained my independance, lived a good life worken bloody hard and did very well, but also had a fantastic social life and actually going to work was fun and something I looked forward to.Year after year the bank took on grads who were thick as shit had no common sense and couldn't even wipe their own backsides.All they had was a piece of paper with a qualification on it.I really am in a dilema with my kids as if they need a degree to follow the profession they want I will support them, but if they are going for the sake of it, I really don't think I could support them.
  • Also it maybe an idea to have a look through Job vacancies and see which areas require Degrees. In my experience alot of employers want applicants to be educated to Degree level regardless of subject. Possibly consider also how much you would like to earn in the future. While it maybe that once you are established in a profession you will not need a Degree in that subject Employers may see that having a degree is an indication of intellect. It isn't by the way. I'm sure we all know some exceptionally brainy people without Degrees and some particular Dullards with.

  • I went to art school and then did a post-graduate degree in teaching.
    My profession: Graphic design was the 'new dawn', now 40 years later is overwhelmed with 'web designers'  so  as I advised my sons get an apprenticeship.
    Of course employeers want a degree a  default pre requirement. It essentially get's you an interview, then you seem to spend several month's doing internship's and work experience.
    We had a virtual permanent graduate, most of them son's or daughters from fleet street journalists, and most with a 1.2 or above from a London or Oxbridge. Warwick and a few   others are highly regarded as well depending on the position. Of course I went in a time when there were grant's I got a full one, and have enjoyed my career, albeit being made redundant three times, that is the profession, a bit like acting, you are lucky to be continually working, and in graphics unless you own the company, employeers  can be very agesist. 
    It was possible to do design without a degree, probably impossible nowaday's, so I would have to.
    I enjoyed art school, in  fact I have kept in contact with  most of my year. 
    I hope my sons like there professions, they will need to, they face 50 years plus of  it.
    Doing a degree also gives you a good social network for contacts, and  I rarely meet anyone that has not been to  formal education in my profession ,except of course M.D's, and they generally are the first to want there kids to go to Uni! 
  • edited August 2011

    Some great advice here, very useful.

    A couple of points....

    1] Choose your subject very carefully, make sure you are interested and committed to the course and not just going through the motions.

    I must confess that I did one of the "Micky Mouse" degrees listed above (Media Studies) and although I have still had a very successful career I do regret perhaps not having chosen something more traditional like History/Politics or Economics.

    Having said that, some of the direct hands-on skills I learnt on my degree course did manage to get me onto the rungs of the employment ladder in the media/publishing world so it was not a complete waste of time.

    Even at the age of 38 and in a job which pays a very tidy wage and allows me to travel internationally I may still need to go back to do some further study in order to give myself the opportunity to move further up the ladder, meaning a possible MBA or post-graduate work.

    2] University is not just for partying/studying. Use the time you have at University to network and get as much work experience as you possibly can in your chosen field - most likely on a voluntary basis.

    One of my best friends at college was always out and about doing voluntary work for BBC local radio and Capital and walked straight out of college and into a job with the BBC and is now a presenter on Sky News.

    3] Think long-term about what qualifications you will need to prosper in your chosen field, is it likely perhaps that you will need to do some post-graduate studies to really prosper in your chosen field. If so, you will need to factor that into your initial choices.

    4] I went to University in London and regretted it to some degree that I did not go away but the plain fact was we simply could not afford for me to do so. I was the first person in my very working class family to go to college and my folks in early 90's recession hit Britain could not afford to support me living away from home.

    As fees have soared many more students will be forced to study from home, this may actually make a lot more sense from an economic viewpoint.

    5] From my company's standpoint (we are in the research/consulting field) we do not even consider people for employment unless they have a degree, so there is that element of "Pass Key" out there and I would imagine many other firms would have the same philosophy - in fact I know they do.

    Our firm has a graduate employment scheme, taking on two graduates per year, and this year received a stunning 2,500 applications for the two positions which pay a starting salary of 20K.

    Back in the boom years we were getting a couple of hundred applications......

  • What with the hike in university fees coming in next year, i was wondering what people thought of whether it is worth it when the 'average' student will be saddled with a debt of around £50k at the end.

    i went as a 27 year old so i could get a better paid job and immediately earned 50% more in my first job after completion. with my eldest coming up to the uni stage in a couple of years im wondering whether it is still worth it. im still paying fees back 10 years later (£150 pm), but hers will be 3x what mine were.

    is it / was it worth it for you??

    I'm curious. You're 37 now but with a child near university age (18). So you were just over 20 when you had a child but went to Uni at 27. How did you manage that?
  • Go. Work sucks. Drinking at lunch time and going to gigs is AWESOME. 
  • Go. Work sucks. Drinking at lunch time and going to gigs is AWESOME. 
    It truly is. I do both of those regularly, and I work full time.
  • surely depends what you want  to do as a career?

    on a personal level, i didnt know when i left school but i was lucky enough to get offered a football scholarship in the states, so i got my education without the debt. best time of my life.
  • I left school at 16 and did a 4 year mechanical engineering apprenticeship. There was never a chance of me going to university, I  was never clever enough.
    30 odd years later I have a job working in a top 10 university(according to the Sunday Times). Recently a vacancy came up, (same job as mine) HNC or degree required, they couldn't get a suitable applicant. What they needed was a practical person with  vocational skills but they have fallen for this nonsense of "you must have a degree".
    You dont need a degree to do my job and if I had one I wouldn't be working there.
    I do have few bits of paper to my name (mainly potato peeling qualifications) they have kept me in work since I left school. I have all the material bits and bobs most would want and I live in a nice area,so, for me, you don't need to go to university.
    But if you want 9k a year fees plus living expenses of god knows what and no guarantee of well paid job, go and enjoy your 3 years of study. 
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  • I left school at 16 and did a 4 year mechanical engineering apprenticeship. There was never a chance of me going to university, I  was never clever enough.
    30 odd years later I have a job working in a top 10 university(according to the Sunday Times). Recently a vacancy came up, (same job as mine) HNC or degree required, they couldn't get a suitable applicant. What they needed was a practical person with  vocational skills but they have fallen for this nonsense of "you must have a degree".
    You dont need a degree to do my job and if I had one I wouldn't be working there.
    I do have few bits of paper to my name (mainly potato peeling qualifications) they have kept me in work since I left school. I have all the material bits and bobs most would want and I live in a nice area,so, for me, you don't need to go to university.
    But if you want 9k a year fees plus living expenses of god knows what and no guarantee of well paid job, go and enjoy your 3 years of study. 

    Slightly contradictory there. You conclude in your penultimate sentence that "you don't need to go to University" but admit earlier in the comment that you yourself have been denied access to a job at your own workplace because of your own lack of degree!

    I think we need to draw a clear distinction here between what a degree is and what it actually does.

    Does getting a degree provide you with all of the skill required to initially do job x, y or z? No.

    Does getting a degree significantly improve your employment prospects once you do get on the career ladder? In a lot of - but not all - cases, I would say yes.


  • I left school at 16 and did a 4 year mechanical engineering apprenticeship. There was never a chance of me going to university, I  was never clever enough.
    30 odd years later I have a job working in a top 10 university(according to the Sunday Times). Recently a vacancy came up, (same job as mine) HNC or degree required, they couldn't get a suitable applicant. What they needed was a practical person with  vocational skills but they have fallen for this nonsense of "you must have a degree".
    You dont need a degree to do my job and if I had one I wouldn't be working there.
    I do have few bits of paper to my name (mainly potato peeling qualifications) they have kept me in work since I left school. I have all the material bits and bobs most would want and I live in a nice area,so, for me, you don't need to go to university.
    But if you want 9k a year fees plus living expenses of god knows what and no guarantee of well paid job, go and enjoy your 3 years of study. 

    Slightly contradictory there. You conclude in your penultimate sentence that "you don't need to go to University" but admit earlier in the comment that you yourself have been denied access to a job at your own workplace because of your own lack of degree!

    I think we need to draw a clear distinction here between what a degree is and what it actually does.

    Does getting a degree provide you with all of the skill required to initially do job x, y or z? No.

    Does getting a degree significantly improve your employment prospects once you do get on the career ladder? In a lot of - but not all - cases, I would say yes.



    I haven't been denied a job, the job requirements have moved on from when I started. I do that job.
  • edited August 2011
    One of my best friends at college was always out and about doing voluntary work for BBC local radio and Capital and walked straight out of college and into a job with the BBC and is now a presenter on Sky News....... Ormiston addick
    proves the point I was making perfectly  Ormison, my last company was the BBC where I was a mentor.
    Interesting point is that the BBC graduate entry scheme was done away with a few years ago, the scheme that the  very incumbant Director general was a recipient of Mark Thompson?
    Yes plenty of internships, and working experience at the BBC, as I worked on the staff newspaper I got to hear of the 'wizz kids' pretty quickly, but the take up rate certainly in TVC and  central London is  amazingly low. Researchers used to be a good entry level, you would get attached to a programme,  but that has been cut back severly in recent years in that the BBC produces so little tv, itself these days. When I joined the BBC I had a week's induction, put up in a hotel, and everyone who joined the BBC had to go on this. A lot of people were in the 28-35 age bracket, having previously worked for an independent production company, or such like?  Only 2 people from 150 over 40 on the course. So draw your own conclusions, and by the way did not meet anyone without a degree. 
    Of course I am only talking about the world of  the BBC, and the magazine/newspaper  world as that is really all I have worked in. I know I had a high degree of luck, and good fortune to have such an interesting career, and was very fortunate to  simply be in the right place at the right time. I would add that having a good degree, and good at your  job is fine, but that seems a very small part of the work place these days, because everyone else has the same  qualities, including the poor guy in the car park, with the  directing the goods reception with his degree in politics?....... still at least he has a job?....... a career at the bbc, not really they are closing TVC, and 'outsourcing' the staff.
  • My friends son was faced with a choice 3 years ago. A place at Cambridge or a trainee accountants job at PWC. They turned to me for advice. I said with doubt take the PWC job. 3 years later he's a qualified accountant, no debt earning a small fortune for a 22 year old and just about to start a 2 year secondment in Australia. That boy is one lucky so and so and this is the path I'll be trying to steer my boy down.
  • What well thought out and diverse advice, once again CL comes up trumps. For what it's worth, when I have been asked over the past 20 odd years I have always suggested (as many on here have) if you have a specific white collar career choice which requires a degree (Medicine, Law etc) then go for it. If not get an apprenticeship (or whatever the modern day equivalent is). You will always be able to make a bob if you can fix a boiler, or re-route an electrical cable, and if you have the kind of brain that would have earned you a degree had you bothered, you will end up running your own business and being (relatively) free from the shackels of "the man"...     
  • I didn't go to university as I wanted to earn money and didn't know what i wanted to do so didn't want to waste money/time. I did however spend my weekends visiting all my friends and brother at university living the uni life with the money to do so. 

    I often think about whether I should have gone to uni, but still don't see it would have helped with my career although some jobs do ask for graduates, the agency staff say they sometimes put that on the adverts to disuade some people from applying for the role, and then they still wanted to speak to me. 

    it's a toughie because with the job market as it is, you may be battling with thousands of other graduates when you get out of uni to get a job, and end up settling for any old job to get by thus rendering your degree useless or you could learn skills and train on the job and be a step ahead of the graduates in 3/4 years time.  I would say though, prospects for progression could be limited. 

    I think it used to be easy to wing it to success with charm and attitude but there are less jobs around and more qualified people after them. You would need to give yourself the best chance of getting those jobs, and either a 1st class degree or 3/4 years experience is key.  
  • edited August 2011
    Going to Uni never really interested me.

    I left school as soon as I could because I wanted to go out and earn some money and I hated being there with a passion. I reckon I probably earn now more than 99% of the people I went to school with and have never regretted not going to college or Uni.

    I'm saving now for my son should he want to go to Uni and he's not even 2 yet to give him the best chance to do what he wants when he's older.

    You can ask as many people as you like for their experiences and opinions but at the end of the day forget about how much it's going to cost, is it something that YOU want to do?
  • I left school at 16 so didn't even to my A levels, thankfully it was still relatively easy to get a job and progress. My line of work, reinsurance, has allowed me to travel and work all over the world.

    Most grads I see these days are bunch of uneducated losers, but unfortunately most companies (certainly outside uk) require a degree of some sort.

    So if I was having my time again I would do a degree but it never held me back.

    Not sure if it is possible but I would recommend studying abroad you will probably find it cheaper and the life experience will probably count for more than studying at a better uk uni.
  • I work in the legal profession where a technical degree (science or engineering) is a requirement to qualification, unless you can prove many years of relevant experience in the field, but even then it's tricky.  As many have said, if you have a particular career in mind where a degree is a necessity, then choose what you take and where you take it carefully.  There are a lot of posh old farts in my profession who wave their school ties around, and some firms are 80-90% oxbridge graduates. 
  • I went to uni to study Music Technology, as it was what I was good at and enjoyed at sixth form.  Right at the beginning of the course, they told us that the degree was essentially worthless, and the only way to get a job in the industry was by knowing the right people.  So I quit after a couple of weeks, and went to uni the following year to do teacher training (it's what I had always wanted to do, but didn't tell anyone, because I thought they'd make fun of me).

    Throughout the whole teacher training course, all I wanted to do was get a job, so I never really put the effort in to the essays; now that I've been teaching for 3 years, I can honestly say the degree did not help me in the least (except for the piece of paper at the end of it), and I felt thoroughly unprepared for life as a professional when I'd finished it.  Most people I've kept in touch with from that uni had a breakdown/quit teaching after their first year, so I blame the uni!

    Anyway, I agree with the people who are saying that it's only worth going to uni if you know where you're going to be afterwards.
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  • I went to uni to study Music Technology, as it was what I was good at and enjoyed at sixth form.  Right at the beginning of the course, they told us that the degree was essentially worthless, and the only way to get a job in the industry was by knowing the right people.  So I quit after a couple of weeks, and went to uni the following year to do teacher training (it's what I had always wanted to do, but didn't tell anyone, because I thought they'd make fun of me).

    Throughout the whole teacher training course, all I wanted to do was get a job, so I never really put the effort in to the essays; now that I've been teaching for 3 years, I can honestly say the degree did not help me in the least (except for the piece of paper at the end of it), and I felt thoroughly unprepared for life as a professional when I'd finished it.  Most people I've kept in touch with from that uni had a breakdown/quit teaching after their first year, so I blame the uni!

    Anyway, I agree with the people who are saying that it's only worth going to uni if you know where you're going to be afterwards.
    ah nuts I'm starting that course next month!

  • edited August 2011

    It is such a dilemma, such a hard call.

    My son will be the first of the £9,000 per year generation if he goes, and in all likelihood will end University with a debt of about £55,000.

    My wife wants him to do a very sensible, almost vocational course that would lead to 'professional' life in law or accounts or something medical and safe, possibly in politics, diplomacy or international relations. Originally my son said he wanted to do something like Politics Philosophy and Economics, and try for somewhere like Oxbridge.

    Then you get the thing about 'a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do'. my son now wants to do a degree in Music which he is very interested in, and keen on...and leaving aside where it leads job wise, it is to an extent about educating and developing the person to reach some kind of potential...but will being a developed individual buy the baby a new bonnet?

    So the present compromise is not wanting to pay £9k for a music degree from somewhere like Luton University, Music as a course would be ok according to Mrs Plum if it leads to a good Oxbridge type degree (as an Oxbridge degree is a ticket to ride anywhere mostly). given that my son has always scored A's or A*s in everything so far, one hopes...but it is a tough world, he is a teenager, and may not always score so highly in exams.

    So there is not going to Uni at all, what does a bright young man, with all A's at A-level, and a keen interest in music do after sixth form?

    A flanker is to go to a Uni abroad, like Maastrich, which teaches in English, and has fees of £1450 per year, which you get back if you're in the top 3% of your course.

    As a parent the call is a worry because you know how much such a decision matters, and you want to do your best for your child. In present economic times it is even harder, my own income has dropped in recent years, so financial support is going to be tricky to say the least.

    As a result I am rather hoping to win the lottery!!

  • The very top Universities have an entrance exam, and I would imagine that to 'read' music would require a demonstration of his talents (I'm guessing but it makes sense to me) so you would be able to find out before he gets his results if he is going to get into a top University.

    Either way if it gets him three years of studying something that he is very interested in it can hardly be a bad thing, and vene if he doesn't use it he will only be three years older when he starts looking for a job and chances are the economy will be better by then too.

    Even if University doesn't inproved your earning potential it is a worth while exercise as long as he isn't going to waste the time but make the most of it. I do think it needs to be a decent University otherwise there's a chance that the course will be rubbish - particularly bearing in mind how much it is going to cost.
  • I went to uni to study Music Technology, as it was what I was good at and enjoyed at sixth form.  Right at the beginning of the course, they told us that the degree was essentially worthless, and the only way to get a job in the industry was by knowing the right people.  So I quit after a couple of weeks, and went to uni the following year to do teacher training (it's what I had always wanted to do, but didn't tell anyone, because I thought they'd make fun of me).

    Throughout the whole teacher training course, all I wanted to do was get a job, so I never really put the effort in to the essays; now that I've been teaching for 3 years, I can honestly say the degree did not help me in the least (except for the piece of paper at the end of it), and I felt thoroughly unprepared for life as a professional when I'd finished it.  Most people I've kept in touch with from that uni had a breakdown/quit teaching after their first year, so I blame the uni!

    Anyway, I agree with the people who are saying that it's only worth going to uni if you know where you're going to be afterwards.
    ah nuts I'm starting that course next month!


    I'm doing a similar course UC, Sound Arts and Design BA. Just about to go into the 3rd year. 
    Getting into the industry is hard, but honestly having a degree in the very thing you want to pursue as a career does help. Plus think of it this way. All the people on your course you eventually get to know. If you make friends and collaborate as much as possible a job for them can lead to a job recommendation for you. 
  • I went to work straight from College for 2 years then decided to try Uni as all my mates were banging on about it. It was class for a party but I got bored pretty easily and left part way through my second year and travelled New Zealand instead. I never had an idea about what career path I wanted to take and just plodded along in life, and now I've still managed to get into PwC and am working alongside graduates!

    If you have a career path in mind then go for it, otherwise just find something you're interested in doing and enjoy yourself. If my son want's to go to Uni when he's older (he's 2 now - so quite a wait!), then I'll hopefully be in a financial situation to help him out and avoid these increased fees.
  • Went to Southampton for 3 years, 'studied' english.  Put basically no effort in and came out with a 2:2 and now restudying in accountancy so completely unrelated.  Despite the utter pointlessness of the degree I would still say its worth going as it'll probably be the best 3 yrs of your life.  That said, not sure I fancy 50k of debt...
  • Work, save up and go travelling if you want to experience a party lifestyle. You won't regret that!
  • edited August 2011
    I went to work straight from College for 2 years then decided to try Uni as all my mates were banging on about it. It was class for a party but I got bored pretty easily and left part way through my second year and travelled New Zealand instead. I never had an idea about what career path I wanted to take and just plodded along in life, and now I've still managed to get into PwC and am working alongside graduates!

    If you have a career path in mind then go for it, otherwise just find something you're interested in doing and enjoy yourself. If my son want's to go to Uni when he's older (he's 2 now - so quite a wait!), then I'll hopefully be in a financial situation to help him out and avoid these increased fees.
    The thing is people like you are the exception, not the norm. As more and more graduates are churned out each year the chances of getting into places like PwC withot a degree are going to get slimmer and slimmer.
  • Go to Uni abroad.

    For example, Cape Town uni is one of the top uni's in the world and is a fraction of the price.

    Even the US/Canadian or European uni's are better value now.


  • Thats not always the case, if you are prepared to start at the bottom then you can get in. PwC have internal call centres that need manning, and they don't require graduates! From there you can study while working, or move on internally to other roles like I have.
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